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/sci/ - Science & Math

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2245669 No.2245669 [Reply] [Original]

What evolutionary advantage or purpose does the endogenous production of DMT serve?

Alternatively, why are our brains wired to receive these hallucinogenic/transcendent/spiritual experiences?

>> No.2245676

A good one. Bumping for interest.

What would happen with a human who can't produce it? Are there lab animals that this could be / was tested on?

>> No.2245703

>>2245676

>What would happen with a human who can't produce it?

Good question - I'm not even sure if that's possible - it's probable that every living thing on earth has trace amounts of DMT in it, or, at the very least, has the potential to produce DMT endogenously - that's because its precursors are neccessary and present in every living organism on the planet. I've heard some speculate that it could act as a perceptual regulator - a sort of barometer for concensus reality - too much DMT and things begin to look like a surrealist painting - too little and things look flat and dull. That is of course just speculation.

>> No.2245708

There are no evolutionary advantages or disadvantages.

Stuff just happens and you either die out or not.

As long as it doesn't kill you outright or renders you incapable to produce offspring, it has no meaning on evolutionary matters.

>> No.2245721

>>2245708

Then i guess the next question would be how come our bodies react to drugs in such a way. Just coincidence that a plant or a crystal and mind fuck you? natural selection would have no need to effect it, so why do these drugs effect us in such a good way?

>> No.2245724

>>2245721
chemical reactions

there is no why, just a how

>> No.2245754

>Travel to West Australia
>Free DMT for all at party
>Bitches freak out
>Forever alone

>> No.2245760

>>2245724
>>2245708
you're not smart, you're pretentious and pointless

>> No.2245763

Drugs usually interfere with some aspect of the release and reuptake of neurotransmitters. Take Cocaine as an example. Cocaine simply blocks to uptake of released norepinephrine, dopamine and seratonin neurotransmitters so they stay in the synapse, continuously binding with and releasing from the receptor sites and causing many more action potentials than would normally occur on the dendrite of the receiving neurone.

>> No.2245777
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2245777

>>2245724

>there is no why, just a how

The 'how' may be all that is concretely definable, measurable, and knowable, but that doesn't suggest that an answer as to the question of 'why' does not exist.

Let's rephrase the question - why is DMT present in every living organism on the planet (as far as we can tell)? It must serve some function. Given it's prevalence should we assume that it just as important as the proteins and amino acids that are the basic building blocks of all life?

And even if we do concede that it is *just* a 'chemical reaction', so what? We're all on drugs 24 hours a day 7 days a week - our entire perceptual and sensory reality are regulated by 'drugs' and chemical reactions, so what reason is there be believe that the specific combination that we have been equipped with is an objective and accurate portrait of the way things really are?

>> No.2245779

>>2245708
>As long as it doesn't kill you outright or renders you incapable to produce offspring, it has no meaning on evolutionary matters.

Absolutely incorrect. Anything that affects the chance that an organism will survive to reproduce has evolutionary significance. Same with the chance that offspring will be produced, and the chance that they will survive to reproduce, among other things.

>> No.2245788

>>2245760
you're neither smart nor pretensious, just pathetic

>> No.2245803

>>2245788
thanks for replying, now i know i hurt your feelings ;]

>> No.2245809

>>2245779
though randomness is involved and "perfect" result is rarely achieved

Plus, i believe, time in which certain improvement happens on average, if we estimate only by "value of improvement" drastically longer for lower values.

>> No.2245840

>>2245754

lol. Did they all get breakthrough doses? What were their reactions after the came back?

I can just imagine the kind of reaction you'd get out of people who just pop pills, smoke weed and drown their liver in alcohol.

>> No.2246305

>>2245788
do you even know the meaning of Pretentious?

>> No.2246331

I was under the impression that DMT was an important tool for dreaming. I don't know what the evolutionary importance of sleep or dreaming is, but we evidently need both, so it would appear that the evolutionary advantage of DMT is to facilitate dreaming. The hallucinations would just be a side effect.

But plants have DMT too, so this can't be the whole story. It could be used as a defense mechanism, but it seems weird that the same chemical would be used for two very different purposes.

>> No.2246371

>>2246331
>I don't know what the evolutionary importance of sleep or dreaming is

I always find it strange when people don't just look at the most obvious correlates when it comes to evolutionary biology. People sleep when visibility is at a minimum. This is not a coincidence.

The most common cause of accidental death historically has been through falling. One of the most common dream experiences is of falling. This is not a coincidence either.

Every behaviour of humans is somehow geared entirely towards self-preservation, and that's all there is to it.

>> No.2246403

>>2246331

It's only speculation that DMT has a role in dreaming (and NDE's) but it seems plausible and likely given the nature of dreams and how they can be both absurd and indistinguishable from reality at the same time.

>But plants have DMT too

Which I think is the most interesting thing to think about. I've heard someone theorize that it may be a sort of 'messenger' molecule that the natural world has evolved as a tool for helping one expand consciousness - to be honest, that doesn't sound that absurd to me.

Besides, it is likely that one can gain access to a sudden increase in the endogenous production of DMT essentially resulting in a trip without the need for smoking it or preparing an orally ingestable brew - things like fasting, meditation, ritual dance and drumming and other trance-inducing methods may all simply be ways to intiate a sudden surge of DMT into the brain and result in these spiritual/transcendent experiences. Why are these experiences so profound and why is there almost always a complete shedding of any sense of 'self'?

>> No.2246433

>>2245777
>what reason is there be believe that the specific combination that we have been equipped with is an objective and accurate portrait of the way things really are?
It emphatically does not. For instance, we perceive a thin slice of the electromagnetic spectrum, and at a limited range. We--by which I mean most of the human species--perceive enough of the world and with enough accuracy that we tend to survive long enough to be able breed children and to protect those children until they're likely capable of taking care of themselves.

Our brains misinterpret things all of the time. Most of our neurology is used for things like basic bodily function, and for social interaction with other humans. That we can reason and know the world with anything even resembling scientific rigor is a curious accident of evolution. We're not made for logic, or reality-discernment. We're made to make more of ourselves.

>> No.2246435

>>2246371
No.

If you don't sleep, you die. Your brain shuts down lobe by lobe. Also, there exist nocturnal animals.

>> No.2246456

Because dreams were mentioned - what are the effects of prolonged dream sleep?

>> No.2246488

>>2246456

On a semi-related note,

I read a series of posts somewhere a while ago in which the poster claimed to have some kind of sleeping disorder that caused them to spend the majority of their time asleep, and, in a dream. They claimed this dream-world was incredibly vivid and indistinguishable from reality. I suspect this isn't a real condition, as Google yielded nothing, however, it does sound possible. Does any condition like that exist?

>> No.2247874

>>2246488
It sounds like something out of the sandman comics.
Does anyone know about the effects of lucid dreaming and DMT?