I started this converstation on /b/ yesterday, but that didn't work out too well. Let's see wether the intellectuals on 4chan have anything interesting too say about this depressive topic.

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Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:12:13 2010 No.2231255 [Reply] [Original]

I started this converstation on /b/ yesterday, but that didn't work out too well. Let's see wether the intellectuals on 4chan have anything interesting too say about this depressive topic.

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:23:13 2010 No.2231317

Ignorance is bliss.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
- Ernest Hemingway, author and journalist, Nobel laureate (1899-1961)

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread359251/pg1
(Why intelligent people tend to be unhappy)

The rest are under a delusion of self-importance so they inflate themselves until they realize what you did.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:27:13 2010 No.2231343 we have a rotten culture we basically are taught to live in a wrongheaded way that makes many people unhappy and/or mad

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:28:13 2010 No.2231346
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"True happiness" is always either an illusion, momentary or artificially attained.

Those seeking True Happiness will never be happy because they will never gain it.

The more sane goal is to attain contentment.

Contentment with yourself and your surroundings is easy to attain.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:29:13 2010 No.2231354 >>2231317 Maybe you're right. The only people who could actually be happy, would be the ignorant people. Too stupid to realize they should be depressed.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:30:13 2010 No.2231361 >>2231346 >contentment is easy to attain you should go visit psychiatric hospitals and tell people that it would fix everything

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:30:13 2010 No.2231357

I wish I could help people with problems like anorexia with rational arguments as too why they shouldn't make a problem out of their wheight. Sadly, I know this won't help at all. They can't see the truth no more. I'm starting to doubt wether there even is a truth.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:31:13 2010 No.2231367 File: 130 KB, 750x600, 1292719834944.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2231343 /thread

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:32:13 2010 No.2231370

I used to wonder about this too op

The only thing I can say is don't worry about whether other people are happy or not. They don't care about you and you shouldn't care about them.

We could spend all night making a list of all the reasons for this, but in the end, nothing can be changed.

If you are intelligent, my advice is to tone it down as much as possible until you find people just as intelligent. That doesn't mean act like a tool, it just means don't let others know what is really going on upstairs.

Hide your intelligence and use it to secretly take advantage of the system.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:35:13 2010 No.2231386 >>2231370 >don't worry about whether other people are happy or not. They don't care about you and you shouldn't care about them. > in the end, nothing can be changed. ever thought that by caring about each other things could be changed?

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:35:13 2010 No.2231387

Most people that are happy don't go smiling like idiots everywhere. Those are the ones whose life suck and try to hide it.
I don't really smile. I don't have a lot of friends nor participate in many social situations. But damn, I'm happy with my life. I have everything I need, and more than I will ever need.

I just wonder how people can be so ungrateful, having a roof, food everyday and even internet, and still crying that their life is shit.

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:36:13 2010 No.2231390

>>2231370
Fuck that. That was hell for me. Hell, I got into college early for not hiding it. And everyone knew I was smart, so it was easy for intellectuals to come up to me and become friends with me, albeit they were also usually socially inept like me.

Also, >>2231386

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:38:13 2010 No.2231404

>>2231370
This doens't sound like a very good idea. I get my joy out of life by making other people feel happy.
Why would I care for myself? I know I will get along just fine the way I am now, I'm worried about other people.
If I were to only live for myself, I would get depressed. Besides, hiding your intelligence isn't necessary anymore, since I'm studying at a university, lots of smart people there. Too bad nobody seems happy up there.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:41:13 2010 No.2231421 >>2231317 I hate this bullshit where people say "only stupid people are happy". bullshit. the 50 year old nasty dumb redneck bitch who works at 7-11, does she look happy?

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:42:13 2010 No.2231427

>>2231387
To have everything you need, doesn't have anything too do with happiness.
I myself would be most happy if I could just be care free, live day by day. The best way I can think of manifesting that dream, is of backpacking through Australie. Think about it, you wouldn't have to think about anything other then where you might sleep today. It doens't matter where you go, it doesn't matter how long you stay there, that's my absolute purpose in life.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:42:13 2010 No.2231429 >>2231421 >LOWER IQ SCORES LINKED TO HIGHER SUICIDE: http://www.scientificamerican.com/podcast/episode.cfm?id=lower-iq-scores-linked-to-higher-su-10-06-0 5

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:44:13 2010 No.2231436 >>2231429 >implying IQ is objective

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:45:13 2010 No.2231441 >>2231421 Only stupid people have to potential to become happy. That doesn't mean all stupid people are happy. Sadly, smart people will always find a way to fuck themselves over in the never ending pursuit of happiness.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:46:13 2010 No.2231444 >>2231427 well unfortunately doing that is not as easy as you make it sound. if your homeless, have no money, have the police pestering you, those things will come to the forefront of you mind.

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:46:13 2010 No.2231445
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>>2231361
Unfortunately this viewpoint is not something one can teach except by example. And usually the ones that seek to learn, think it is a stepping stone to True Happiness.

Contentment, like any mental thing worth having, comes from within.

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:47:13 2010 No.2231447

I stopped seeking happiness a long time ago. To me, being happy isn't what life is about, it's about achieving your goals and being what you want to be. It's about enduring the hardships better than all the other suckers so you end up on top, doing the little things just that much better because you held on where the let go.

Every now and again you're lucky enough to meet someone who understands, and that's cool, but not essential.

Thinking it over, I don't think I've ever been happier with my life than right now. But that doesn't mean I've been living a succesful life, it's just a funny side effect.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:48:13 2010 No.2231453 >>2231441 i'm smart and happy mind you i'm old i think smart people are more likely to age happily

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:49:13 2010 No.2231458 >>2231427 People are sad because they don't have what they want. I have what I need and ergo I'm happy.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:49:13 2010 No.2231455 >>2231453 Hemingway killed himself as an old man. Are you gonna say Hemingway wasn't smart? How can you even tell if you're smart?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:50:13 2010 No.2231463 File: 96 KB, 524x400, nietzsche.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Read some Nietzsche OP, preferably his post "Beyond Good and Evil" works. There is so much to say on this topic, that an online discussion is more or less futile.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:52:13 2010 No.2231470 File: 51 KB, 450x338, Maslows_Hierarchy_of_Needs.svg.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2231458

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:52:13 2010 No.2231471 >>2231463 Didn't he go insane shortly after writing that?

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:53:13 2010 No.2231473

>>2231444
Homeless and living at another place every day, are two different things. Besides, who needs money, Australië has enough food and animals. If you'd really need money, you just find a job for a week at a local restaurant and then you move on.
The only thing I could really think of that would stand in my way, is getting sick. I would have no clue what to do, if I would get a nasty decease when I just left on a 3 day trip to another city.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:53:13 2010 No.2231474 >>2231471 People in those days went to a mental hospital for things such as minor depression. Doesn't mean he went insane. And in what way do you mean insane? Schizophrenic? Morally insane? etc.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:53:13 2010 No.2231478 >>2231463 It's not futile. It's worth talking about, so let's talk about it.

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:54:13 2010 No.2231480
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>>2231455
i said likely to, not with 100% certainty.

not sure how to tell if smart. obviously easy to tell if academically smart. perhaps the proof that i'm smart is that i'm happy.

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:55:13 2010 No.2231484
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>>2231354
>>2231317
>>2231346

In stead of saying "I am unworthy" you say, "the world is unworthy". There is still so much of the blood of the theologian in you.

Unworty, meek, and lowly, you rabble!

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:56:13 2010 No.2231489

>>2231447
I've reached the same point. Only my only purpose in life is to gain a better/perfect understanding of our world/universe/life. When we finally find a unification theory or I start to get bored with this, I don't know what I could possibly have to live for.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:57:13 2010 No.2231493 >>2231474 Nietzsche was totally insane for much of the last 10 yrs of his life

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:57:13 2010 No.2231496 File: 648 KB, 1238x929, herpderp.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2231480 Why are you happy?

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:57:13 2010 No.2231494

>>2231474
On January 3, 1889, Nietzsche suffered a mental collapse. Two policemen approached him after he caused a public disturbance in the streets of Turin. What actually happened remains unknown, but an often-repeated tale states that Nietzsche witnessed the whipping of a horse at the other end of the Piazza Carlo Alberto, ran to the horse, threw his arms up around its neck to protect the horse, and then collapsed to the ground.[25]

In the following few days, Nietzsche sent short writings—known as the Wahnbriefe ("Madness Letters")—to a number of friends (including Cosima Wagner and Jacob Burckhardt). To his former colleague Burckhardt, Nietzsche wrote: "I have had Caiaphas put in fetters. Also, last year I was crucified by the German doctors in a very drawn-out manner. Wilhelm, Bismarck, and all anti-Semites abolished."[26] Additionally, he commanded the German emperor to go to Rome to be shot, and summoned the European powers to take military action against Germany.[27]

Yeah. Poor Nietzche. Crushed by his own ideas.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 18:02:13 2010 No.2231516 >>2231255 Start to enjoy living for others is the only way.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 18:03:13 2010 No.2231519 >>2231494 Give me madness over unoriginality every time.

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 18:04:13 2010 No.2231521

OP, you couldn't possibly imagine how complex people's lives are. OFc, everyone has some "luggage" that they're hiding, but there are very significant differences between people. Some people lost all motivation and are barely shuffling their feet from one day to another, living only by inertia. Most others just try to live a normal life, have some friends, enjoy ordinary things, ..travelling, having a good job, buying stuff, having a relationship, you know, the usual.
Actuallly most people are busy trying to keep themselves on the positive side of things and also show others how well they are doing. You couldn't possibly imagine how much effort most people put into ignoring problems and throwing themselves in anything positive that can make them look and feel successful. That includes avoiding thinking about the big problems that paralyse other people's minds and lives.
I dunno why would you care. I stopped doing it, I just enjoy things as they come and try to make the best of what's possible for me.

>>2231470
Also, ahuhuhuh, show me some empirical evidence for Maslow's crap.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 18:06:13 2010 No.2231525 Pessimism is the property of a vain and cocky youth. Nobody over the age of 30 is a pessimist. ~Goethe You're faggots sitting behind computer screens thinking they're special in their meek world views.

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 18:07:13 2010 No.2231528

There's nothing pointing to Nietzsche's illness having anything to do with his thoughts on morality and the like. In fact I believe I read somewhere that there's reason to believe it was purely "physiological".

>>2231516
This is bullshit, before you start caring about others you should learn to care about yourself.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 18:07:13 2010 No.2231529 >>2231521 What's your favorite academic activity right now? Will you be doing that if you didn't have a house? Food? Water?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 18:08:13 2010 No.2231533 I know how I could be happy. I don't want to though. Why be happy when it makes you powerless?

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 18:09:13 2010 No.2231539

>>2231496
i'm happy because i value things on my own terms, and most of the time act accordingly.

i know myself, and feel comfortable with myself. i know what behaviours of mine are right for me and which will make me unhappy.

i have good friends, a job i mostly like, a home i like.

i'm in a relationship that i can be myself in.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 18:09:13 2010 No.2231537 >>2231533 How does not being happy give you power?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 18:10:13 2010 No.2231542 >>2231521 http://jhp.sagepub.com/content/31/1/114.abstract Healthiest 1% of the college population.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 18:10:13 2010 No.2231541 >>2231528 That crossed my mind yesterday as well. Love yourself, before you help other people love themselves. One of my friends made this mistake, now she's in a horrible place and I don't think she's coming out of it anytime soon.

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 18:12:13 2010 No.2231550

>>2231537
Being unhappy doesn't give power but working hard, making money and doing everything I can to screw over others in order to get ahead doesn't make me happy.
Given the choice between happiness and what I have now, well, it's pretty obvious which one I chose.

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 18:12:13 2010 No.2231551

>>2231529
You name it. I read and discuss on most difficult topics, though I may not be equally trained in each. My academic activity is similar to Heraclitus', he lived before the first academy came into being.

>Will you be doing that if you didn't have a house? Food? Water?
I don't have a house. I've been renting for many years now. I've had days when I had nothing to eat and days when I ate seafood in expensive restaurants with top officials. I can adapt to many contexts, so not being able to pursue an academic interest would be really low on my priority list. You can keep your mind sharp even if you live like Diogenes.

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 18:13:13 2010 No.2231557

>>2231533
this is partly a false dichotomy.

what is probably happening is you are insecure so need power to overcome that, and this mindset has become are part of who you are. so to give up your insecurity will mean you no longer need to seek power. this loss will seem harmful as it's destroying a part of your make up.

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 18:14:13 2010 No.2231561

>>2231541
Yea, sign #1 that you're going to shit is when you start thinking: "It's ok that I'm worthless, I'll just ignore it completely and instead live to make other people happy."
Christ, really? And you don't think you'd have more to offer if you actually liked yourself? Worst thing is, the people I've met who think like that also think that they're smarter than everyone else, and that they're depressed because they're intelligent. What the fuck, seriously.

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 18:15:13 2010 No.2231565

>>2231550
Society makes you think that working hard and screwing people would make you happy. You don't think so, you think you're happy at this point in life.
You don't choose your current life over happiness, you just deny the socialy accepted definition of happiness.

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 18:18:13 2010 No.2231570

>>2231561
Well, I wouldn't buy that. I don't believe that just because you're intelligent that will make you depressed. But I would believe it if someone said to me that they were lonely because they were intelligent, they have no one to talk to about what goes on mostly in their mind.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 18:19:13 2010 No.2231574 Not only intelligent people are depressed like hell, also artists are depressed like hell. This may just be another form of intelligence, but not many scientists are artists at the same time.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 18:20:13 2010 No.2231576 File: 9 KB, 252x192, 1281841198351.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2231542 Impact Factor: 0.245

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 18:21:13 2010 No.2231581 >>2231570 True, I'm not saying that intelligent people don't get depressed, just raging at the people who think that being intelligent forces you into being depressed.

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 18:21:13 2010 No.2231583

anyone here who just realized we can't be happy because we can never understand everything, we've been actually doing to much unnecessary things, can't explain all our actions rationally, and shits like that? I get that all the time and is fucking my head for as long as I can remember.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 18:21:13 2010 No.2231584 The neocortex is fucking adaptable and adapts thought/behavioral patterns that conflict with the more archaic parts of our brain. It's a struggle that fucks up the works. Thanks a lot, civilized society.

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 18:21:13 2010 No.2231585

>>2231574
Just saying (and I know you said "not many"), Leonardo da Vinci.

Albeit he wasn't really a scientist.
Also, just curious do you mean any type of art? Or painting? Einstein played violin, for instance. I think Heisenberg, Pauli, Feynman... Damn I forgot the other one.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 18:22:13 2010 No.2231586 >>2231574 As are dumb people and average people. Come on guys, stop this madness.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 18:23:13 2010 No.2231587 >>2231581 Oh, yeah I know. A lot of those people aren't even really intelligent, just have a deep-seeded need to be intelligent.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 18:24:13 2010 No.2231593 File: 49 KB, 500x376, 1292712189126.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Wait what the fuck? That dick who first responded (me) created all this faggotry.

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 18:25:13 2010 No.2231594

>>2231570
OP here. My point wasn't really that only intelligent people are depressed, although this is a common event.
My real reason for writing this, is that I don't think anyone can really be happy.
We see people walk around who look depressed; they are depressed.
We see people walk around who seem happy; they actually are depressed.

I'm happy to read that people actually say they are happy themselves. This gives me some hope for the future of mankind. Still I can't help but thinking you have the illusion of happiness, i.e. you're ignorant.
This creates another point of discussion. Is an illusion of happiness not the exact same thing as actual happiness?

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 18:27:13 2010 No.2231602

>>2231594
>Is an illusion of happiness not the exact same thing as actual happiness?

Well, no, it isn't. But not in an important sense. In reality, it's not happiness, yet to them (subjective), it is happiness. At the same time, happiness isn't objective.

American don't get used to doing nothing at all Mon Dec 20 18:27:13 2010 No.2231603
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People need a purpose and direction. When they live with out work, or positive constant interactions outside the home. They (those not given to introspection) morose feelings og inadequacy and low self esteem. This leads to they agrigate symptoms you mentioned.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 18:28:13 2010 No.2231605 >>2231594 I'd just like to point back to >>2231447 Really, all you have to do is shed your hedonist thoughts and acknowledge instead that there's other things in this world than being happy.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 18:29:13 2010 No.2231608 >>2231585 Carrot Top

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 18:29:13 2010 No.2231609

>We see people walk around who seem happy; they actually are depressed.
>>2231594
Generalisations and confirmation bias. Looking at a few people around you doesnt' make you see the whole picture in society. Show some evidence and maybe people will take you seriously.

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 18:33:13 2010 No.2231616

>>2231605
I agree, that would be a perfect awnser to this debate. The only problem is that I won't acknowledge this anwser, because I feel like it's the worst case scenario.

In the same sense, I'd be a horrible doctor. I would never diagnose someone with an incurable decease, because there would obviously be no way to help my patient overcome this.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 18:35:13 2010 No.2231619 >>2231484 >>2231463 Nietzsche and Sartre made me a happy person. I am free and i _will_ presevere what more do I need.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 18:35:13 2010 No.2231621 >>2231609 Srsly, take the most happiest person you know. I'm absolutely positive he's not happy with his life. Try it, let him open up too you.

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 18:43:13 2010 No.2231645

>>2231616
Suit yourself then, I've said what I wanted to, expressed how I deal with the existential vacuum. Guess my work is done.

>>2231621
The thing is, this doesn't apply to someone like me, since I would say that I am happy. Yes, there's still plenty of things to work on, and if there wasn't that'd be the true disaster. But I'm perfectly happy with my life, enjoying the full ride: pain and pleasure, sadness and sorrow together with ecstasy and fulfillness.

In that sense, happy to me means something other than what it does to you, to me it just means that my life is meaningful, which it is.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 18:44:13 2010 No.2231649 >>2231621 I am very happy with my life.Do not try and not believe it, you will just create a cycle of depression for yourself.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 18:44:13 2010 No.2231653 True happiness is living in the now. Its hard to do when you reflect alot, but its posible. there are many ways you can train your self too live in the now. Good luck, have fun!

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 18:46:13 2010 No.2231658

>>2231645
In continuation:
I wouldn't want my life to be "all happy shit". That would be like living half a life wouldn't it? I want the tragedies as well, and their existence don't make my life unhappy. On the contrary, they're part of what makes my life meaningful,

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 18:50:13 2010 No.2231671 File: 34 KB, 500x374, 1292720633677.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2231653 >mfw this guy is on 4chan

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 18:53:13 2010 No.2231689 File: 100 KB, 600x328, antidepressants.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

dolan !Uq56cE.45s Mon Dec 20 18:57:13 2010 No.2231710
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The world ain't sunshine and rainbows, but there's nothing to fear. There is something beautiful hiding behind something so banal, so "normal" as death or existence. They are the most common things in the world, yet we fear something we have been dealing with since we first became conscious. Philosophers tried to understand the axioms of life during the Enlightenment; since then, a whole art has evolved around existentialist questions. We fear something we don't fully understand, something that is extremely close to us every single day of our life. Axioms cannot be understood because they are axioms.

etc etc der der im such a philosophe hurf derp

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 19:02:13 2010 No.2231729 bump

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 19:04:13 2010 No.2231735 Happiness is a result of self-worth.

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 19:26:13 2010 No.2231825

"Who needs money when we got feathers?" -Bum on the Simpsons

Happiness is as you define it. Really...anything from a tickle-induced smile to Buddhist monks' finally achieving 'Nirvana.'

Your trouble OP comes from the apparent complexities of living a modern life. People aren't just themselves anymore...they're whoever they feel like presenting themselves as. You probably know someone who is able to change their personality - identity - self on a whim based on who theyre talking to/what environment they're in. Everyone has a hundred sides, some happy, some depressed, some confused, some confident, really any combination of any feelings you can think of.

I myself am content with just about everything. I think Ive come to terms with the fact that anything can happen and the paradox of feeling powerless and yet everyone else is just a single human as am I and somehow the world is the way it is.

Negativity in the news isn't helping. When everywhere you turn someone is telling you of the coming apocalypse, environmental catastrophe, the imminent collapse of society or any other of the limitless proposed doomsday scenarios it's impossible not to worry for the worst in some small part of your mind.

Not to mention how the media in general and advertising in particular force unrealistic expectations of people onto themselves. Kids today told they can achieve anything - sorry boys and girls it all comes down to fate. You do what you want to do and things will turn out they way they do for better or for worse in all the ways you never expected.

>>	Happier than thou Anonymous Mon Dec 20 19:38:13 2010 No.2231868 File: 21 KB, 300x400, aldous-huxley.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] ITT: People not smart enough to figure out how to be happy. Are you even trying? Or just whining?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 19:42:13 2010 No.2231893 >>2231255 The problem is too many people think life is SERIOUS BUSINESS.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 19:59:38 2010 No.2231947 >>2231868 This.

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/sci/ - Science & Math