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/sci/ - Science & Math

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2221427 No.2221427 [Reply] [Original]

Question:

When it comes to the hypothetical colonization of Venus, I was wondering if subterranean facilities would be possible?

In other words, would Venus's 460ºC / 860 ºF temperatures be any cooler underground?

>> No.2221444

Live like a god. In the clouds.

>> No.2221448

>>2221427
hypothetically, yes.

>> No.2221450

>>2221427
no

>>2221448
no

>> No.2221455

We don't know nearly enough about Venus's geology to answer that definitively.

>> No.2221467

Since Venus is mostly endothermical, no-

>> No.2221479

With the extreme internal temperature that causes global re-surfacing and the as-extreme external temperature that has persisted virtually forever, there's just no place whatsoever under a certain altitude where humans, or even human technology could survive for long.

Even if you managed to build an underground base, you'd be happily surprised to notice that one crack in the wall of the public showers suddenly spewing forth kilotonnes of molten lead.

>> No.2221488
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2221488

Yes, because the deeper you go the colder it gets...
Right?

Right?

>> No.2221491

>>2221479
Ah, but I think you might be thinking that Venus has plate-tectonics, which it does not seem to. As far as we can tell, it has a very old, stable crust.

I think...

>> No.2221494

>>2221488
Gah, that is a fantastic graph.

>> No.2221501

>>2221491
Just fucking NO.

It doesn't have plate tectonics exactly BECAUSE it's so hot. The surface is too weak from the heat to support lateral movements.

Instead there is strong evidence that since tectonics doesn't let the heat escape in a more controlled manner, the trapped heat slowly rises, ending up in a global re-surfacing of the planet.

>> No.2221504

>In other words, would Venus's 460ºC / 860 ºF temperatures be any cooler underground?
Nope

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonization_of_Venus#Aerostat_habitats_and_floating_cities
>At an altitude of 50 km above Venusian surface, the environment is the most Earth-like in the solar system – a pressure of approximately 1 bar and temperatures in the 0°C–50°C range.

>> No.2221513

Why is venus so hot? It's further from the sun than us isn't it?

>> No.2221514

>>2221427
>>2221427


>Cooling could also be effected by placing reflectors in the atmosphere or on the surface. Reflective balloons floating in the upper atmosphere could create shade. The number and/or size of the balloons would necessarily be great. Geoffrey A. Landis has suggested[6] that if enough floating cities were built, they could form a solar shield around the planet, and could simultaneously be used to process the atmosphere into a more desirable form, thus combining the solar shield theory and the atmospheric processing theory with a scalable technology that would immediately provide living space in the Venerian atmosphere. If made from carbon nanotubes (recently fabricated into sheet form) or graphene (a sheet-like carbon allotrope), then the major structural materials can be produced using carbon dioxide gathered in situ from the atmosphere. The recently synthesised amorphous carbonia might prove a useful structural material if it can be quenched to STP conditions, perhaps in a mixture with regular silica glass. According to Birch's analysis such colonies and materials would provide an immediate economic return from colonizing Venus, funding further terraforming efforts.

this is all you need to know op

>> No.2221516

would it be any easier to maintain a cooler habitat temperature if you built it underground?

>> No.2221517

>Venus
>subeterranean
LOL NO
Floating in the atmosphere? Maybe.

>> No.2221520

>>2221504
enjoy breathing your venus atmosphere fag

>> No.2221523

>>2221517
here, beaten to it: >>2221504

>>2221513
No. Mars is further.

>> No.2221528

>>2221520
This is an irrelevant statement. You can have a contained and controlled atmosphere, and there's no place that's better as far as pressure and temperature.

>> No.2221531

>>2221427

No it's not any cooler underground. Hotter in fact.

But there are other problems too. Like the absence of water, and the lack of a magnetic field for protection from radiation.

Unfortunately, this planet is a tough nut to crack.

>> No.2221539
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2221539

>>2221504
>implying you could live in venusian skies wearing only this

>> No.2221543

>>2221539
Yeah, and die from radiation poisoning...

>> No.2221545

We'd probably be better off trying to colonize the ocean, the moon, or the inside of the Earth.

>> No.2221546

>>2221539
You're the only one referring to such implications. It would be a contained habitat.

>> No.2221547

ahh Venus, the forgotten planet

>> No.2221553

>>2221545
Not if you're trying to put our eggs in more than one basket (asteroid impacts, etc.)

Also, it's not an issue of physical space. It never was.

There won't be a personal incentive for migration off-planet until we can establish self-sustaining habitats with good reliability elsewhere.

>> No.2221560
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2221560

>>2221539
>implying that I implied that.

>> No.2221569

Could some sort of algae/plant survive on Venus?

By taking the CO2 out of the equation, i think things would be much easier. It's a long term solution, obviously.

>> No.2221578

>>2221569
Venus is pretty damn hellish on the surface.

>> No.2221592

>>2221569
Aerial plankton is in consideration.

>> No.2221595

>>2221592
Doesn't plankton, and most single-celled life, generally depend on living in a water solution?

>> No.2221602

>>2221595
Yes, which is why I used the qualifier "aerial".

Some gengineered plant that lives most of it's life in a thistledown-like state.

>> No.2221624

>>2221501
Ah, fascinating.

>>2221528
Bear in mind that breathable air would actually float on Venus, much like how Helium does here.

>> No.2221629

>>2221624
Depends on the altitude.

>> No.2221635

>>2221545
>>2221553
Well, "colonization" may be misleading, but I do expect us to see some research stations within our lifetimes.

Consider Antarctica: it's infinitely more habitable than any other planet or moon, but we don't have huge settlements there. However there are indeed many research stations.

>> No.2221651

>>2221547
I feel so bad for it. It's closer to us, the brightest object in the sky,the most similar to us in size,gravity, atmosphere, etc but it's totally ignored in favor of a certain sexier red planet.

>> No.2221662

>>2221569
It's kinda complicated. Even if you could do that, it'd have to be very instantaneous or else the planet's self-regulation systems would just steadily convert that oxygen back into CO2.

>> No.2221662,1 [INTERNAL] 

>>2221624
>>2221662
>>2221662

>> No.2221715

>>2221635
We don't have huge settlements there because people don't wanna live there. Who wants to sit inside 24/7 in the cold or have it be night time all the time? Shit isn't fun and depressing for normal non-4chan people.

>> No.2221726

>>2221715
Yeah, that's... that's the idea. The point being that if life is that difficult and inefficient there, it would be much worse off of earth.

But I still maintain that research stations will be there.

>> No.2221752

>Venus
>subterranean

It's a mathematical impossibility, as Venus only exists outside the Terran crust.

>> No.2221759

>>2221752
Then what's the crust and core called?

>> No.2221771

>>2221726
Cloud cities on Venus would be very hospitable as far as temperature and energy availability are concerned.

>> No.2221772

>>2221759
subvenerian?

>> No.2221778

>>2221772
Subvenusian probably.

>> No.2221780

>>2221771
Exactly, which begs the question: Why the fuck don't we have cloud cities on EARTH?

>> No.2221784

>>2221778
>>2221772
>>2221759
>>2221752
Subvenereal.

And the pathogens that may live there cause subvenereal diseases. Some even target the sexual organs, those are known as subvenereal venereal diseases.

>> No.2221825

>>2221780

not enough atmospheric pressure for it to be viable.

>> No.2221828

>>2221780
Why would we have cloud cities on Earth? Living on land works out pretty well.

Venus has an incredibly dense and hot atmosphere at the surface. To live on the surface requires some pretty impressively strong structures. The ideas is floating at a "more reasonable" atmospheric density and temperature would make it easier to build stable and (relatively) safe habitats that could harvest energy from the dense atmosphere below.

It's kind of like an ocean platform versus living on the bottom of the ocean.

>> No.2221871

>>2221427
>temperatures be any cooler underground

If you have 300km³ of radiators to cool down 1km³ of habitable space, then yes.

You could combine the two methods of floating habitats and surface facilities if you only have robots on the ground.

>> No.2221898
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2221898

Terraforming Venus is the perfect setting for steampunk. I will never understand why the Japanese never used Venus for a novel or manga.

>> No.2221900

>>2221784
And the microbes that strike the tissues underlying your sexual organs are called subvenereal subvenereal diseases.

>> No.2222114

>>2221752
>>2221759
Haha, clever.

>> No.2222128

>>2221771
Well, they'd still be around 120ºF, but still.

>> No.2223212

>>2222128
>Fahrenheit

Faggot detected.