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2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/sci/ - Science & Math

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2220103 No.2220103 [Reply] [Original]

No troll, but how does a project like LHC help humanity? As far as I'm aware it won't help us generate electricity, cure disease or provide extra resources.

Please tell me I'm wrong and that it somehow will help solve world hunger or something like that.

>> No.2220113

>>2220103
There are collecting data, in order to understand and control the fundemental forces of nature.

Becuase of there work and sacrifice, we will be able to refine nuclear power production, and eventually be able to control gravity.

Sagin, cause your fucking retarded

\thread

>> No.2220112

They managed to create anti hydrogen in the machine which can be used as an energy source.

When you take anti hydrogen and combine it with regular hydrogen a large amount of energy is released (the same energy that caused inflation after the big bang) this can be harnessed and used as propulsion on future space flights or harnessed for energy used.

>> No.2220120

>>2220103
Knowledge for knowledge's sake ALWAYS brings benefits, eventually.

You must be retarded to not realize that.

If we always said, "do we know any way in which this will benefit humainity? If not, then we shouldn't do it." then we'd still be fucking cavemen.

>> No.2220125

>>2220103
maybe none, maybe some

if you only judge human endeavour by how it benefits humanity at large you live in a very narrow world.

>> No.2220126

>>2220112
But isn't the energy required to create the anti hydrogen vastly more than is released by its obliteration? This could make it a nice high density energy store but I didn't think of anti hydrogen as an energy source.

>>2220113
>fucking retarded
>Becuase of there

>> No.2220132

>>2220125
>>2220120
That's fine, I'm all for human endeavour. I was wondering if there were any immediate gains to be had.

>> No.2220139

>>2220132
Well, the abstract, fundamental nature of the work it's doing means that we won't know what benefit could be derived from its results until after the fact.

>> No.2220144

>>2220132
They didn't have any use for a laser for decades after its invention either.

It seems to me that you're ignorant about the concept of fundamental research.

>> No.2220155

>As far as I'm aware it won't help us generate electricity, cure disease or provide extra resources.

How could you generate electricity if you didn't have the model of the atom?
How could you cure disease if you didn't know how the cells work?
And how could you gather resources efficiently if you didn't have the technological progress?

This helps achieve all of this though not as directly as finding the cure.
You just have to know how things work to be able to exploit nature to fit your needs.

>> No.2220162
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2220162

See OP, it's people like you who will remain on Earth when the Martian Federation reaches for the stars.

>> No.2220166

Further knowledge about how the universe works always benefits humanity. The benefits may not come for a decade or more, but scientific knowledge is always the most powerful force for change in our world.

>> No.2220168

Utilitarian detected. Fuck off OP.

>> No.2220174

Anything that helps us get away from the archaic "planetary orbits" model is a good thing.

>But it works above the subatomic level...!
Fucking coincidence. dealwithit.bat

>> No.2220178

>>2220168

Dude what? By utilitarianism the potential benefit from any science is well worth working for.

>> No.2220176

>>2220120
>fucking cavemen
Literally too

>>2220139
>>2220144
Awww yeah. Pure research is badass tier of science.
They just get a bad rap because faggots don't understand the significance.

>> No.2220179

>>2220155
>How could you generate electricity if you didn't have the model of the atom?
except they did generate electricity before they had model of the atom

>> No.2220180

>>2220178
Yes. But think more myopic. That's what I'm getting at.

Also, I'm also for science that MAY NOT have any application and is simply knowledge to fill books.

>> No.2220188

>>2220180

even 'useless knowledge' fulfills a need - curiosity - therefore a good thing in utilitarian terms.

>> No.2220190

>>2220162
hell yes. Saved.

Also, martian colonization FTW and all that.

>> No.2220192

>>2220188
Well I disagree with that perspective, but I agree that science, no matter the kind, should be researched.

>> No.2220196

>>2220190

Just read one of Heinlein's short stories the other day - "The man who sold the moon" - detailing a trip to the moon in the 50s. It was so filled with hope and wonder - and the sense that it was a dream. Then I realised; WE HAD DONE IT. IN REALITY.

So to those who look up at the stars and dream; remember that you are not alone. We will expand.

>> No.2220200

>>2220196
I'm reading Heinlein right now!

I had one of those moments of jaw-dropping awe the other day; I was explaining how lunar eclipses work to a friend while we were looking at the moon with my telescope, and I started to tell him some basic facts about the moon, like how far away it is...

And I tried to really emphasize how far away it is, so I said "Going 15,000 miles an hour, it still took three days to get to the moon..."

And then it really hit me.
WE WENT TO THE FUCKING MOON.

>> No.2220203

>>2220162

Enjoy your osteoponia, Mars fag. I'll be sitting right here until we many up and head over to Alpha Centauri.

>> No.2220210

>>2220200
>>2220196
Don't forget the fact that the moon is a gigantic spherical rock in space (with resources that we can use), and the fact that the moon lines up between the earth and the sun is a colossal show of the beauty of celestial mechanics

>> No.2220211

>>2220103
what need electricity for when we have candles and stoves?

>> No.2220213

>>2220211
The fuck? Candles and stoves? Just throw shit right on the fire, dumbass. Fuck that useless shit.

>> No.2220220

>>2220213
fire is against will of Gods!

you play Gods!

we only need boar hides

>> No.2220224

>>2220220
what, skin god gave man not enough to you?

>> No.2220228

>>2220224
You worship a false god. My god is the correct god. I prove my worth to him by lopping off the foreskins of newborns.

>> No.2220236

>>2220228
Foreskin must be for something. You am play gods!

>> No.2220237

>>2220203
>Osteopenia
To be fair, we don'r know for certain the effects of Martian gravity on the human anatomy.

And it's not like that'd be an insurmountable problem, anyways.
/nit-picking

>> No.2220240

>>2220236
No, I sacrifice it in them in the ocean. You are plays god

>> No.2220241

>>2220236
ooook, ooo eee oook ee!

>> No.2220298

Many things that humanity has done hasn't actually been to further it. We don't know what the long term outcome of something like the LHC will be, and whether or not it will affect some very little things.

The first example that comes into my mind is how we realised the effects of CFC's on an atmosphere by studying Venus, long before the full effects of pumping CFC's into the atmosphere hit. We didn't realise that studying another planet would change the course of ours, but it did. LHC will probably be the same - just because you can't foresee it doesn't mean it won't be important for the greater population.

>> No.2220303

>>2220120
> Knowledge for knowledge's sake ALWAYS brings benefits, eventually.

Knowledge is its own benefit. We don't acquire knowledge for the sake of existence; we exist for the sake of acquiring knowledge.

IOW, ask not what the LHC can do for humanity, but what humanity can do for the LHC.

>> No.2220304

but we have this HUGE abundance of surplus productivity and we can't go using it to help the niggers we stole it off or what's the point of stealing it in the first place, so a huge fuck off particle accelerator is as good as any other mad project we could have used the cash for and at least it makes pretty pictures for the kiddies

the advances in science lhc will produce are nothing next to the suffering of those dying of poverty RIGHT NOW. But no-one cares about niggers.

>> No.2221584

the people at CERN where tho ones who alowed you to ask the usefullness of their experiment!

(they made the WWW, specifically OPEN)

>> No.2221594
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2221594

>>2221584
>>2221584

>> No.2221610

Scientific discoveries that were completely useless when first made:
- electricity
- x-rays
- penicillin
- lasers
- DNA
- NMR (better known in medicine as MRI)
- giant magnetoresistance (makes your mp3 player work)

Plus, most scientists don't give a rat's ass about building useful stuff. If you want those minds doing something other than figuring out how best to package derivatives to rob you of your money, then letting them build a big fucking machine that is way more interesting is a good way to go.

>> No.2221616

Our entire economy is based on the fruits of basic research. All of it. Except prostitution, maybe.

>> No.2221701

America didnt gain anything from going tot he moon either... or did they? Certain surveys suggest that for every dollar USA spent on going tot he moon, their economy got 14 dollars back throughout the years.

Also, curiosity-based science has given us transistors etc... who knew finding out the "colors" of atoms would lead to us eventually having computers?

>> No.2221709

>>2220103
replace LHS with "pure math" and you get the headache I have to listen to from physicists and engineers.

>> No.2221714

You see, we never know what will specifically advance society, so we just try to further our knowledge in all things.

Bear in mind that until the Manhattan Project, Einstein's theory of mass–energy equivalency had absolutely no application whatnosever.

>> No.2221734

>>2220103
anything else learned other than antihydrogen

>> No.2221750

>>2220103
why did it have to be so big?

>> No.2221787

There are a number of physics models/hypotheses that are around that the LHC can help scientists confirm experimentally, at least in part. Those that don't fit need to be either thrown out or refined. Otherwise all we have are untested models which aren't necessarily the best foundation to build things on.

As for waste of money - how about US defence spending? There's a truckload of money right there that dwarfs the amount that was spent on the LHC. Admittedly a small chunk of that is spent on military research, but there's a lot more there that is just wasted completely and not released for civilian use (for obvious reasons).

>> No.2221862

>>2221750

High energy particle accelerators are built big to reduce energy losses from synchrotron radiation. As the protons and antiprotons move in a circle, they are continuously accelerated inwards, and accelerated charged particles radiate electromagnetic energy. The smaller the radius of the accelerator, the harder the particles get accelerated, and the more energy gets radiated.

Synchrotron radiation limits the maximum particle energy. As the particles move faster, the energy loss from synchrotron radiation increases until it equals the rate at which the accelerating system adds energy to the particle.

As to why build it, It helps us discover the fundamental nature of physical reality. The money spent on this thing is chump change compared to the money that we have been spending on wars and bank bailouts.

>> No.2222065

When electromagnetism was first being discovered, Michael Faraday did a demonstration for Queen Victoria. He demonstrated that when he moved a magnet through a coil of wire, the needle of a compass moved when near part of the wire, far from the magnet.

Queen Victoria being the stuck up bitch she is (kinda like op) asked "of what use is this?", to which Faraday replied "Of what use is a newborn baby?"

Don't dismiss research because you can't think of an application for it.

>> No.2222142

>>2222065
and if it hadnt been for that, we wouldnt have the television screen.

>> No.2222161

>>2220103
>implying every man-made structure must have some big purpose, such as curing disease or solving the problem of world hunger.

HURR DURR