/sci/ - Science & Math

File: 49 KB, 600x384, education5.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 00:23:37 2010 No.2184795 [Reply] [Original]

The education system in the United States has become fucking atrocious. I went to school in the 80's, and even though my school had some issues, I got a pretty good education and ended up going to a decent college (Rutgers for my undergrad, Columbia for chemical eng. PHd). I have a nice who asked me to help her with her homework when I was at her family's house for thanksgiving and I couldn't fucking believe what kind of shit she was doing.

She had a packet that the teacher printed out from the Internet about multiple sclerosis and an accompanying worksheet that was just copy pasted sentences from the packet with a missing word. So all she had to do was find the words and insert them in the blank space. That's it. No critical thinking whatsoever.

I looked at her other homework, like writing an essay about what she learned from some bullshit teen-pop book they had to read for English class. The grading sheet was very strict as to what she should write about; 3 paragraphs, each 8 sentences in length. She had to use 10 of 15 vocabulary words in the essay and the things she "learned about" were already fucking given to her. So there is fucking zero creativity involved, zero critical thinking, zero THINKING at ALL involved. What the fuck???

Part 1/2

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 00:24:37 2010 No.2184798

Part 2/2

More science homework: Memorize 20 parts of the brain for next Monday's test. I asked her, do you know what they do? No, the teacher never told her what their function was, she just had to memorize them. What's the fucking point? This is so incomprehensibly fucking retarted.

History homework: Memorize the dates of this and that treaty and this and that event. Zero analysis and a very shallow explanation of the events that they're memorizing.

What the fuck is going on. Does anyone else know about this? Holy shit. I can't see anyone intelligent trudging through this and not dropping out. Of course the drop out rates are so high; who the fuck wants to sit through this mind-numbing bullshit. I can't believe more people aren't talking about this. Fuck!

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 00:27:37 2010 No.2184803 I feel the same OP. Even AP classes are jokes anymore. People just aren't prepared for college these days.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 00:27:37 2010 No.2184804 pics or it didn't happen also, how old is said "nice"?

Filenamefag !gzv4si5.ww Sat Dec 11 00:32:37 2010 No.2184820
File: 107 KB, 504x388, Just Bored.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Yeah, I lived that.
I went to a private school until eighth grade that kicked our asses with writing assignments and math. Hell, they even taught biology pretty well for a baptist private school.

Then, I ended up in a Texas public high school. It was a joke. I spent 4 years bored and unchallenged. Why? Because the entire curriculum was based around a test I could have passed with flying colors in 9th grade. Why? Because that's how the school as a whole gets evaluated.

Standardized tests were the worst thing we ever did. Either we need to make them harder or destroy them entirely.

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 00:33:37 2010 No.2184824
File: 181 KB, 549x563, 1290377234819.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Swiss fag here.. Seen the best students go to USA for a semester so that it reflects well in the c.v. They ALL came back throwing up at the blissful ignorance of the students they saw there.. Obviously they finished with a++, who wouldn't? If you have the exam questions in advance, and if you learn to do a derivative in a master of finance, then you know you're far below average education.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 00:37:37 2010 No.2184835 Well why don't you start your own "perfect school" then mr pretentious motherfucker.

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 00:38:37 2010 No.2184842

>> "Standardized tests were the worst thing we ever did. Either we need to make them harder or destroy them entirely."

Agreed. Welcome to America, where "statistics," and how they can be manipulated to look better, are more important than what's actually happening.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 00:39:37 2010 No.2184844 public school is a joke and it only helps the majority of students who can`t think for themselves, if you want a good education you will have to pay for it and people are cheap and prices are too high

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 00:43:37 2010 No.2184861 Hahaha you should see the math upper class undergrad students at my old uni. Even the 2nd semester real analysis classes had little critical thinking. Felt bad for them when they're going for grad school...

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 00:43:37 2010 No.2184864 Her education is still far superior to the one you received 20 years ago

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 00:45:37 2010 No.2184877

I won't pretend to think that I was the best student, hell I only come here for shits and giggles. But as your example showed so much of our schooling is focused around repition and memorization of random facts. They would rather have us memorize the names of presidents (and forget them in a month) than spend the year focusing on the important aspects of what they did. That, and we treat our children like idiots and tell them contradictory information. Christopher Columbus discovered America. Period. This is an absolute truth until 3rd grade until you learn about some Leaf Erickson guy. It isn't until highschool until you learn about eurocentricsm which makes you question everything you learned until that point. We teach our children to be fact generators and not thinkers.

I keep hearing about how the number line and negative numbers are taught early in other schools, which would have made math class much more easy for me. Maybe that's too extreme I'll admit, but here's something that isn't.

I can't remember one time in elementry or middle school where I was asked to give an opinion. Sure it wouldn't be the most profound or educated opinion but that's not the point, the point would be to encourage us to have one. And that's the first step on creating functioning citizens. Because the average person may not remember which president authorized the choice to launch an Atomic Bomb on Japan but they certainly would have an opinion on it which is something I see as far more important.

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 00:52:37 2010 No.2184898

WA state here. Actually had a pretty good education. Math and science are much more about what does this tell you rather than answer and be done. Although English I realized is "taught" retardedly. All we learned were vocab words like theme, they just assume we're master writers and never cover it while we all leave our paper comma less; I learned way more about writing in AP Euro then english.

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 00:52:37 2010 No.2184903

Perhaps it is just me, but my high school experience was far different than what was described.

In my school, the first day of an AP class the teacher would sit us down and say "I am not going to teach you to pass a test, because then you don't learn anything, I will teach you to think on your own. I hate the standards of the state and I am going to do things my own way". The classes that I took were engaging and they wanted your opinion on the subject and we would constantly do debates and experiments. Overall the teachers had a feeling of "I hate the government so I am going to do things my way. Deal with it". It was great, and I actually felt like I learned something.

maybe my public school was just an anomaly...

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 00:52:37 2010 No.2184906

bump for rutgers OP. i used to go to a british style school and than later an american style school for HS. I do think Hs is better but here are some things that can be improved

1.No standard tests, no problem banks. teachers have to custom design an exam that can be ANY FUCKING THING. this way you learn the material rather than the exam. let's see you bullshit your way through an essay assface.
2. early foundations. begin science education especially in chemistry in physics in middle school. I really think this is a good idea because kids would be more eager to learn at this age and it could give them a better foundation for later on. kids also won't have to deal with teenage angst and all that crap or the drama of HS while learning. by the time of ninth grade, they'll know the periodic table and vectors.
3. zero tolerance atmosphere for showboating, misbehavior and attention whoring. this place is for learning
4. school day starts at 9. (lol, not really relevant, but studies show it's helpful)
5. mental health and counseling at schools to help deal with kids who have trouble learning. no remedial shit.
4.

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 00:56:37 2010 No.2184918

OP, you have no idea how much I agree with you and how much the state of our education upsets me.

Currently I'm attending a community college in Florida. I swear, I could be fooled into thinking I'm back in the 9th grade. Granted I'm a product of dumbed down education from the 90's (graduated in 2002), I still think this is too boring. There isn't any real mental challenge. Hell, the weekly crossword (for seniors) is the only real source of creative thinking I've received all semester!

What's worse, I still here people read out loud like "Th... th... there w... w... wa... was a d... d... dog out... outsi...de..."

I just want to inturrupt every time with "THERE WAS A FUCKING DOG OUTSIDE THE FUCKING WINDOW! PUT THE FUCKING VIDEO GAMES DOWN AND FUCKING READ A BOOK RETARD!"

If I did that though, I would be considered an asshole and he would get comforted by his friends/family/instructor and continue his life not knowing how to effectively read which I feel severely limits the expanse of ones imagination.

I should have expected it at my school. Students right 'fuck my nuts and suck my dick' on the bathroom wall stalls and draw mustaches on all the pictures. *sigh*

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 00:57:37 2010 No.2184926

>>2184903
lol my teachers were like this and i got 3's all around. fucking bullshit. some standards have to be met, but how? maybe we should extend testing time and the school year? no more quarters or semesters but one long continous year for less skilled students to develop and perform better. How many kids have taken chemistry and than got turned off because they found it too hard? maybe another chance with more time is needed. the educational system is way too fast. If we want everyone to be intelligent and suceed, than we need to change the system. Often times kids will screw up and not have enough time to improve their grades

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 00:59:37 2010 No.2184937

>>2184877
Interestingly enough, I'd say that part of the problem with writing and education is the opposite of your last statement.

Kids are asked to write about how reading a book made them feel in their English classes. There is no analytical rigor in that. How the hell can a teacher grade something based upon a kids feelings? How are kids supposed to be able to develop adequate writing skills? Proper grammar (I'm aware that my grammar isn't perfect)?

But i agree with the sentiment. Real learning comes from the successful synthesis of ideas supported by a body of evidence.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 01:00:37 2010 No.2184938 >>2184918 >people do this everywhere 1. slow education down, no more tests, longer school days starting later in the day. longer semesters so students with poorer grades can catch up.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 01:00:37 2010 No.2184941 >>2184926 Kinda need semesters cause some classes are only that long but we really do need to shorten summer break by atleast a month.

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 01:02:37 2010 No.2184947

If kids do well on test your school gets more funding

Theirs no better way to go at it then making the entire system impossible to fail allowing for the most opportunity. Education doesn't start until college/university assuming you go to a decent one.

Its not like it really matters anyway, the few jobs that are actually hiring are just skilled trades (Least in my country) which is something you don't really need a high education for.

Its bullshit but its how the world works

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 01:03:37 2010 No.2184952

>>2184906
>1.No standard tests, no problem banks.
I agree. However we still have to get back the ability to fire shitty teachers. From what I gather, its difficult to fire a teacher after 1 year.

>2. early foundations.
Yes yes yes. Maybe a test before you enter elementary, like making sure they know their colors...
>3. zero tolerance atmosphere for showboating, misbehavior and attention whoring. this place is for learning
I agree but it's difficult for teachers to have authority when so many young people have 0 respect for authority. Top it off with schools have to spend so much on lawyers because every trouble maker threatens law suits (even though 99% never get carried through)

>4. school day starts at 9. (lol, not really relevant, but studies show it's helpful)
How about 12 hours a day at a school environment (but not all book time; need fun time too. Art, music, gym, social hour)

>5. mental health and counseling at schools to help deal with kids who have trouble learning. no remedial shit.
Counselors should have access to these programs now iirc.

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 01:04:37 2010 No.2184956

>>2184926
See several of my teachers have a 100% pass rates for the AP tests including in Physics, US Government, English Lit, and Chemistry. In a round about way they make you want to pass the test rather than forcing you to do it.

I agree with the school is too short thing, though. There are far too many days off. School ought to be year-round with two breaks, one in summer and another in winter. A new school year starts at the actual new calendar year. Would make sense, right?

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 01:04:37 2010 No.2184959 While my science and math classes were taught in a decent way, I have never experienced a challenging English class. The standards in public schools are pathetic, and constantly drop. Only the minimal amount of effort is needed to graduate.

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 01:04:37 2010 No.2184962

>>2184937
i'm a writing tutor and i agree with this. what should be taught is
1. making arguments.(what makes an argument and how to stae your opinion)
2.analysis of authors to see this in play
3. using these ideas to make your own.

I don't think creative writing should be taught in schools. like playing the guitar, thats something kids should work on in their own time.

this is interesting, what do you guys think about this
http://www.wired.com/culture/education/news/2007/07/game_school

if we can make learning more like a video game, it would work better

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 01:07:37 2010 No.2184975 We're gonna need parents to pay attention to their kids well being so I say let us say Fuck on tv.

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 01:09:37 2010 No.2184982

>>2184947
not about your post in general but can someone tell me where this bullshit started?

hurrr, capture x number of criminals, give x number of speeding tickets, save x amount of people, pass so many tests, win so many lawsuits, and you get a bonus! I see this shit all over our government. it gives states everywhere an incentive to fuck with the system by giving too many tickets or making things inefficient. HURR, DON'T CARE WHAT HAPPENS, JUST SHOW US THE NUMBERS AND YOU GET THE MONEYZ.

and people wonder why there's no sense of community in america anymore. jesus

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 01:10:37 2010 No.2184986

>>2184962
>"if we can make learning more like a video game, it would work better"

If the same material that needs to be taught can be more effective via a multimedia 'video game' and the students actually LEARN all critical skills needed as well as the memorization of facts/figures/formula, then I'm all for it. Don't really care how the job gets done, as long as it's morally acceptable.

P.S. don't anyone get their panties in a bunch because I said morally acceptable. We all know limits of morals for the majority of people.

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 01:10:37 2010 No.2184990

I wish they would start education at like 3 with video games, like, an educational checklist for parents. Stuff like, "have you taught your kids how something works, generally speaking, on a per-component level" and "can you kid tell which product is worth more per-weight/volume". My parents let me sit in front of algebra games, Hugo's House of Horrors, and permitted me to dismantle old electronics.

As for schools, Elementary and "middle" schools should focus on four things:
1) Expertise at visual memory and spatial skills, including math and reading.
2) Developing rote memory skills, focusing on recitation, including foreign languages or nonsense topics. Simply to focus on the creation on the creation of alternative, and acknowledging that we create systems that have no meaning to us, but having meaning elsewhere, like how medicine is treated.
3) Creating a temporal memory (also short-term memory). This focus on having a linear progression of ideas, as well as comparing and contrasting before/after and simultaneous.
4) Computer science. Watch the MIT Lisp/SICP course and tell me kids shouldn't have those tools.

Cont.

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 01:11:37 2010 No.2184991

really? slow shit down, i can't really talk since i'm still in Highschool but in California the classes are RETARDEDLY easy. There's no incentive to do anything, let the kids that want to learn, learn. Open up more advanced classes so i actually get challenged once in a while >>2184941

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 01:12:37 2010 No.2184996

education has a certain social function. maybe it's just the social climate in america. i.e poor kids who may be minorities not interested as studying so much as other more privileged kids. His apathy leads to government trying to tinker with the system so he can scrape by and we can all just throw our hands up and say everything's fine.
i'm white inb4 trolls

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 01:13:37 2010 No.2184998 >>2184991 >still in Californian high school me too, bro feelsbadman.jpeg

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 01:13:37 2010 No.2184999 >>2184982 Watch Idiocracy. I find that as a picture of most common Americans I meet. "hurr durr I like money" "hurr durr I like sex" No shit you butt fucking knuckle dragging monkey. We all enjoy money and sex.

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 01:15:37 2010 No.2185009

>>2184937
I actually concede to that, I remember getting assignments to read a book and writing a paper on it, though most of the time it was very basic and felt more like giving a summary. We of course were then asked questions regarding the details of what happened in a book though the true purpose of that was to just test to see if we could read it. And like all most standardized tests it was something that someone who hadn't read it could easily pass. I'm talking about encouraging more discussion and presenting opinions. The same books you're expected to write a reflective paper on should also easily lend themselves to some kind of class discussion, that encourages critical thinking and allows students to interact with each other.

But nothing like that can ever happen because it's results can't be measured. It's sad because the outcome would pay off in the long run as producing adults who may not be the most factually knowlegable but know how to think for themselves and have a drive to obtain knowledge for themselves. In our modern age where infomation is at our fingertips I would rather have an employee who has the incentive to go out and search for crucial information then one who memorized a trivia book back in high school. But I know it's unrealistic, ultimately schoolfunding is based to immediate results something that can only be obtained by standardized testing.

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 01:15:37 2010 No.2185010

>>2184990
My experience in school was that they made no effort to make people how to think, they would just give you the material, and hope you understood it.

I was in 2nd or 3rd grade math I believe, and it was decimal places, like thousands. The teacher said like, Put seven-thousand one-hundred and 7 up on the board.

Took like 6 kids to get it wrong before I got to go up and do it. I will admit I was carrying stuff wrong during multiplication, but I was an ADHD kid and really, really didn't care for school.

I wish in 6th grade they would have a dedicated health class, with at least one year worth focusing strictly on the mind, including mental illness and addictions, possibly even touching on Psychology, in the sense of brains are built in common ways, and most people think along certain guidelines.

English class should have at least one year devoted to argument, if not two. For something that dominates 95% of our news and lifestyles, 0 time is spent on treating argument rigorously and detailing fallacies of logic.

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 01:20:37 2010 No.2185019

>>2184798
Student teacher here.

Here's what the problem is: State standards and inclusion. They expect us to teach 10 times the material, then fill our classes with people who can't read, can't speak english, and the smart ones are so tired of this bullshit they don't give a shit. Then they expect us to teach to the lowest common denominator and cover all this shit because it's on some standardized test. We have to dumb the material down because 90% of the time, these kids are coming to us not ready to learn shit, and we're playing catch up while being yelled at to cover more material, faster.

It's fucking bullshit.

tl;dr State tests, stupid people.

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 01:20:37 2010 No.2185023

>>2184991
what i mean is that make the classes more difficult but longer so kids who otherwise wouldn't be taking hard classes like chemistry have more time to adjust and learn the material. Iv'e met several people who have told them they would be interested in learning more about science but they don't want to risk the damage to their GPA. Make the penalty for getting bad grades less intense and maybe kids won't feel so intimidated by learning. That's not to say we shouldn't offer incentives but maybe a lot of apathy stems from kids not being able to adjust to new material fast enough.

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 01:20:37 2010 No.2185027
File: 45 KB, 604x453, firecocks.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Whoa, I just clicked a random image and ended up in a quality thread.

What you said is so goddamn true OP, the american education system is broken almost beyond all repair and only major reforms can bring it up to standards again.

Fuck, it's not even about getting an education any more, it's all about grades, and the whole system is set up to make sure as many motherfuckers as possible will pass.

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 01:21:37 2010 No.2185029

>>2184947

In my public education classes we were exposed to this problem. Obviously, if we had found the answer there, we wouldn't be discussing this problem. But the ever increasing disparity between poorly funded schools and those that receive proper funding is soul-crushing.

But seriously, fuck that shit. Saying that education starts at the college level is only going to retard learning at the college level. Education needs to start when you fucking go to school.

When i was in kindergarten they tried out his 'holistic technique' for teaching kids how to read involving hearing the word and suddenly knowing how to spell it because you know how to say your ABCs. It set all of the kids back about 2 years. And it would have for me too, if my dad wasn't a badass and hadn't decided to teach me how to read at home.
Dr. Motherfucking Seuss.

If the schools are failing, then parents need to get involved. Demand more from your public schools, its your right as a tax payer. If that doesn't work, you keep trying. And in the mean time, if you have kids, you home school.

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 01:22:37 2010 No.2185031

I just graduated from highschool last year, and its funny because its all a joke.

I lost most of my credits for most of my classes senior and junior years, because i just stopped going to class. i still had A's and B's, but i missed over 70 days of classes senior year, only showing up for tests, quizzes i could stay after and do, and i just had a classmate grab the classwork/homework/essays/projects or whatever for me.

That shit was a joke, and i didn't want to be a part of it. I literally spent most of my time getting high with my friends. making the best of a shitty situation, i guess.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 01:23:37 2010 No.2185034 >>2185010 I approve this message. i wish i started the hard stuff and had everything leading up to it early on . If i knew the periodic table and physics before i started HS. i may have been a completely different person.

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 01:25:37 2010 No.2185041

>>2185010
>English class should have at least one year devoted to argument, if not two. For something that dominates 95% of our news and lifestyles, 0 time is spent on treating argument rigorously and detailing fallacies of logic

I always started arguments in my 11th grade english class, and then just called people out on every logical fallacy i saw. My english teacher loved me.

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 01:28:37 2010 No.2185053

>>2185027

Public schools are the problem, because of this "no moron left behind" mentality, and because parents will raise hell if their little snowflakes don't pass every course and graduate on time. You don't have to do anything to get through high school.

I went to public school (graduated high school in 2007), and it wasn't nearly as bad as OP describes it, but I probably would have been better off at a private school.

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 01:30:37 2010 No.2185063

corporate culture has invaded these kids lives. plenty of them think they don't have to study because they'll just become reality tv stars or something. If not that , movies and tv have convinced them that high school and college are places to have sex and drugs rather than learn and get some discipline. sports, while helpful in it's own way get too much attention.
oh and to sign off

START PROGRAMMING IN KINDERGARDEN. holy shit they way global society is changing, this might be the next change we see in ten years. Honestly, kids everywhere having a solid foundation in programming would be fantastic.

than again, maybe it's more natural for us to gravitate towards being better at english and language than numbers.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 01:31:37 2010 No.2185066 >just go to private schools its funny, because the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Great way to start off the new millennium 'merika, throw away all economic and social equality that we were receiving from birth. Fucking stupid ass americans

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 01:32:37 2010 No.2185069 >>2185041 me too, i love debate. hell 4chan can be a positive experience in this way. maybe in the future, we'll have online classrooms where all anons can learn material together.

>>	Scia Sat Dec 11 01:33:37 2010 No.2185072 11th grader here I quit public school to learn math on science on my own because public schools sucks so bad here I mean they are bad really bad

someguy Sat Dec 11 01:33:37 2010 No.2185073

>>2185029
Technically, the holistic method /is/ how people should read, a word and it's surrounding material should evoke auditory, then visual memories, preferably, visual memories first.

The problem is that ability has to develop fully by like 5, so most people have a predominantly auditory method of reading, i.e. it starts with speaking the words in your head, and if they're lucky, they can convert to a subvocal process which goes faster, but I can tell you as much as I've tried, I can't directly cause "real" visuals (other than maybe monochromatic spatial maps). I'm almost mentally ill though, so lol idk, it could be more that than anything.

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 01:37:37 2010 No.2185084

public schools shouldn't stop but there have to be acceptable standards. teachers aren't paid enough and are forced to be parents and mentors in addition to their duties. higher salaries, with lectures and recitation like in college to serve more students.

also no more bullshit on school grounds. fighting, selling drugs and being a dick is grounds for expulsion. bullied kids don't give a fuck about school because there too busy defending themselves from douchebags to concentrate. Not to mention class clowns and the like. lectures and recitations actually help this along since no one wants to be the shithead in a packed auditorium fucking up the whole class.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 01:38:37 2010 No.2185085 >>2185072 did you drop out or "homeschool"?

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 01:39:37 2010 No.2185087 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autodidacticism#Notable_autodidacts Autodidacticism is the best way to go.

someguy Sat Dec 11 01:39:37 2010 No.2185089

>>2185072
>>2185066
>>2185053
Some of you need to make sure you keep your head out of your ass, as good as private educational institutions can be, NO religious academies are held to an educational standard, they just need to test their kids on standardized ones.

When I went to get my GED, and I think from other people, math education in religious schools is appalling, like the have the pastor who also teaches gym class trying to teach algebra as some advanced topic.

>>2185063
The term isn't programming. It's Computer Science. Look up stuff like the Logo language. It's inspired by lisp-style functional aspects, but it was (and is still) focused on getting kids interested in... well, ideas, abstractions, and actions.

In a few research papers or articles, even girls show great interest in learning Logo if they find something interesting about it. ANYTHING that's given to girls that's not ROTE ROTE ROTE is A+ in my book. I frequently feel proud if I see little girls with handheld vidya games, as the vidya frequently does more for spatial/visual/strategic development than 50% of parents could possibly do.

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 01:39:37 2010 No.2185091

High school was a fucking joke, "AP" classes or not.

Hell, I sit in my university math class and explain shit to high and mighty former AP students, and I was in all regular classes. They aren't taught to think, they're just given more shit to memorize, a science project halfway through the year, and more busy work.

Worthless.

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 01:41:37 2010 No.2185101

Sometimes, I daydream and think of a day when shit really hits the fan and we all have a chance to undo some of the damage we have done or been a part of. A chance to reboot.

Seems the only answer is a major overhaul of all our systems.

Education - >Lazy parents and teachers with hands tied behind their backs
Economy - >Money has 0 value behind it anymore, it's all imaginary numbers that make too much of an impact on our lives
Justice - If you have money, you can get away with almost anything. Judges and Officers can't use common sense, laws make them have 0 choice so penalties can be too harsh/lenient (depending on situation)
Criminal - American jail = Free apartment with round the clock security, free clothing/blanket/bed, 3 square meals, and better healthcare then most citizens.
Housing - I have to pay 300,000 for a house that was built using 30k worth of materials built by the cheapest labor possible and it falls apart within 2 years.
Creation of goods - Tree's? Who needs trees. I'll be long dead before we run out of trees.
Creation of 'jobs' = new mini mall full of people flipping burgers and folding shirts that cost way too much.
Entertainment - 'Lady' Gaga is a whore with a baby sound for a name and she is considered an inspiration to too many young adults. Oh, and 'lil Wayne' is the definition of a nigger (be he gets out of trouble with all his money)

All of these systems or industries seriously need an swift kick in the ass.

Viva la REVOLUTION!

someguy Sat Dec 11 01:44:37 2010 No.2185109

>>2185084
I think pay should start at like $25-35k for elementary teachers, then 1-3k for every year you go up. This would compel some teachers to get more educated, and even if conditions improve and they don't need the money, they might find being more educated makes them feel better and want to go into a more professional area.

From the bully/class clown aspect, I think it's like a 50/50 split between mental illness and bad parenting, maybe more 25vs75. I was in the previous group, I had mad ADHD and depression, I wasn't even allowed to be in school without my Gameboy because I was ridiculously disruptive. On the other hand I could go through information like nobody's business, so I almost feel they should have separate ADHD schools that focus on exploiting the disparaties in ADHD kid abilities, and keeping them from being hindered by other kids (and of course from hindering other kids).

>>	Scia Sat Dec 11 01:44:37 2010 No.2185112 >>2185085 its called homeschool only officially im really an autodidact

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 01:46:37 2010 No.2185121

High school teacher here. I work 60 hour week trying to cover all of the material I need to cover in class while also making sure I provide challenging information to advanced students while thinking of ways to help those THAT I CAN'T EVEN TALK TO BECAUSE THEY DON'T KNOW ENGLISH. Half the time I'm disciplining problem cases or trying to mime dna replication. I want nothing more than to teach kids and see them succeed but 99% of the time all I see are kids who want to text their friends and go out drinking. I put my heart and soul into teaching and every day I tell myself that I will do better and the kids will know more because of the effort I put forth. Unfortunately I am often disappointed. The worst part is I can't even give kids the grades they earned. In my first year of teaching I made the mistake of testing them on information they should have read in the book instead of things I had said. The class average was 20%. I ended up getting reprimanded for expecting them to read the information I had assigned.

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 01:47:37 2010 No.2185129

>teachers aren't paid enough

Ahahahahahahaha!

You do realize teaching is a really competitive job right? Theirs way more teachers then there are positions for them to fill. There is absolutely no reason to pay them more anymore then it is not to outsource jobs for foreign countries. Why pay more then people will do it for cheaper?

Plus they make a damn good living anyway

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 01:50:37 2010 No.2185141 >>2185121 I wish i had teachers like you in highshool ;_;

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 01:50:37 2010 No.2185142 >>2185129 AHAHAHAHAHA thats a good one. I'm a biology teacher. I am also teaching chemistry, physics and astronomy because we don't have anyone to fill the job. We NEED teachers.

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 01:52:37 2010 No.2185157
File: 51 KB, 324x246, derp.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I know US education before high school is shit (generally).

But I hope that I'm not getting shafted by taking science classes at state university.

I think my grades are ahead those of most international students who take the same classes I do, which is a good thing.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 01:53:37 2010 No.2185163 >>2185157 whoops, meant *education before college is shit

someguy Sat Dec 11 01:54:37 2010 No.2185169

>>2185101
TBH, I like Lady Gaga. I feel she's the only normal singer, the only one who's really a person enjoying themself because of some unlikely circumstance got her into the market. I enjoy that, though I don't like any but two of her songs.

>>2185091
It depends on the AP class what happens in it.

For most of them, yeah, straight rote. As I've said, I'm an ADHDkid, but my information processing is through the roof (though my rote memory is shit tier).

First time in APUSH class, I burned through a test in 5 mins, got a 20/25, rest of the class takes like 20 mins. Shortly after I was getting 5/25. I found myself reading a book on reading faster, skipped some of the parts, and realized, hey wait, our teacher doesn't want us to read ALL of it. For most of the rest of the year I would read like 5 pages worth out of a 25-30page chapter and was getting 15-20/25.

AP Calc was hilarious. My friend got a 100 on a mid-term in 9th grade, got to take 10th grade math at the same time in 1/2 year, in 10th took Pre-Calc. 11th grade, I complain to the teacher because Pre-Calc is shit. Teacher gives me shit, I have a breakdown, mother calls principal, principals OKs it.
>his face when I walk in without doing any extra work

AP US Government and Economics was shit rote. They were teaching us various economic models, but it's like, why teach someone who understand cars how to build a perfect Mustang? Other analogy, it's like teaching Communism, you'll never actually use it.

Cont.

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 01:54:37 2010 No.2185170

>I'm a biology teacher.
>I am also teaching chemistry, physics and astronomy because we don't have anyone to fill the job. We NEED teachers.

And your on 4chan? I find this doubtful.

Most teachers in public schools do more then once course because its much cheaper to have once teacher do it over multiple teachers. Hell even depending on the size of the building you don't even have the option to hire more teachers due to spacing.

If your school was honestly trying to find teachers they shouldn't have any issue finding them.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 01:55:37 2010 No.2185174 File: 410 KB, 1189x1424, Bah humbug.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Fuck it, every write to whoeverthefuck to just put /sci/ in the charge of education. It cant be any worse than it already is.

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 02:03:37 2010 No.2185186

>>2185170
Because you have to be under 20 to visit 4chan right? I graduated from ASU 3 years ago and got a job right away. I teach in the eager/springerville district, you might have heard of our school when a fucking plane hit our gym. It made national news.

someguy Sat Dec 11 02:03:37 2010 No.2185191

>>2185169
AP Physics was a joke. The teacher focused 95% of the grades on reading from the book and doing lab reports perfectly. We were rarely tested on
>implications
of a situation. I ended up getting a 40, surprising since at mid-year I had 50, and in order to make it up, I had to complete like 5 labs, two of which I had -20 on. I think one thing that greatly soured the class was I was out of school because of an appointment or something, come in two days later when we next had class, he gives me shit because I didn't come in yesterday for a test he never said I had to take by that day. I got to take the test, but wasn't graded on the curve. I would've tied for 100. Oh I was pissed.

Something that was very nice, I had a breakdown after getting kicked out of school. Two kids said I threatened to bring a gun to school. This day I was wearing black long-sleeve t-shirt, black pants, and had earplugs ( I was behind in an architectural design class). After searching me, "to be on the safe side" THEY FUCKING KICKED ME OUT. GOD I SHOULD HAVE FUCKING SUED THEM.

Ended up in the hospital for either 5 or 9 days. After that, the teachers stopped yelling at me, especially on the subject of notes. Imagine this: AP Calc class, only 12 people in it. Two of those are kids from the under-grade. 11 kids are sitting in their seats, writing notes. One of these kids is sitting on his desk, staring out the window. And this kid still gets >80-90% on tests, better than some other kids in the class, and is frequently questioned on his processing and bantered to make sure someone has the concept right.

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 02:11:37 2010 No.2185206

>>2184795
I feel you, OP. Although I live in Canada.

My high school education was absolute shit. I graduated without even knowing how to do long division. Long division!

Nevermind so many other things in so many other classes. My teacher for cooking class would hand out a crossword puzzle at the end of the week, which we were graded on and made up about 40% of our mark.

It honestly wasn't until I had graduated, got a computer at home, and internet, that I *actually* began learning. My writing and grammar improved, I learned history, math, physics, science, I learned... so much. I felt absofuckinglutely cheated by the school system. I wasn't taught ANYTHING. More than 8 years of my life at the best time I could learn, an essential fucking waste and I'll never get those years back.

Today, I'm going to a local college, re-learning my way through high-school math subjects. [For free, thank god] I intend to eventually get to the point where I can take Calculus. It's odd, because I used to hate math before, but now... I can see how it applies to EVERYTHING, and learning a new concept, when that light suddenly goes on in your head and you GET IT, it's addicting.

I feel like I'm piecing my brain back together after the public school system raped it.

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 02:12:37 2010 No.2185210

since it's kind of topic-related

Is medicine school in the US an exception to this thread? i mean, is it good as it is supposed to be?
I'm having some problems deciding whether to study here in Mexico or go to the US, but my big concern is the education (cost is not a big problem)

Does anyone has any advice?

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 02:13:37 2010 No.2185213

>>2185191
I have a kid in my calc class who sits in the back and listens to techno music on his ipod. Half the time it looks like he is sleeping. I had the assistant principal pull me out of the class and ask me about him. I went back in the room, wrote down a problem from content we don't go over until next semester. Tapped him on the shoulder and pointed at the board. He goes up, solves it and sits back down, all without stopping to turn off his music. Kid is a genius, and does not need to be in class. If only my other kids were half as smart.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 02:14:37 2010 No.2185216 >>2185210 We're mostly talking about public grade school. You should be fine in the US.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 02:15:37 2010 No.2185218 Not again.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 02:17:37 2010 No.2185229 >>2185191 Oh god I hated that. "I'm going to check to make sure you're taking notes! It's a grade." durr how does i quadratic equation

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 02:18:37 2010 No.2185236

>>2185087
I support this. As a kid the way they tried to teach me to read seemed like an incredibly fucked up way to read. So i just got my own books and bulled my way through it. I score above the 99.99% percentile of pretty much any test that measures reading comprehension, analyzing and speed. Only problem is that my pronunciation of most of my vocabulary is a little bit off, but its fuck huge anyway so its not like people notice that i pronounce whateverthefuckobscureword slightly wrong.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 02:18:37 2010 No.2185238 >>2185210 nah you're fine, our colleges are really goods it's our kindergarten through highschool education we are complaining about

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 02:23:37 2010 No.2185266

>>2185236
And im not saying this like im sort of some arrogant asshole with an IQ of 150, the shit i do should be average if people actually learned how to read correctly. Not to mention children shouldnt get books they arent interested in shoved down their throats, thats a great way to make people hate reading. As much as i hate those ignorant fuckers who take a year to read a single book or absolutely refuse to read one, i can bet the fucked up school system is the seed to it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 02:25:37 2010 No.2185275 The US education system is like some kind of Lysenkoist adherent had a child with corporatism and decided they'd raise the child 50/50.

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 02:26:37 2010 No.2185282

>>2185169

I'm currently in Pre-Calc sophomore year and it's hilarious and relaxing.

>First day of class
>Teacher walks in
>I don't care about any of you or whether you do any work or not, if you fail you fail. If you want to fail, then fail quietly and don't disrupt others.
>Mfw when I can just read novels the whole class period after paying attention to her when she explains daily lesson for five minutes
>Pass everything
>Most students bitch about her
>One of my favorite teachers since she cracks jokes sometimes and discusses PI

One of my least favorite teachers, Chem
>Takes 3 weeks explaining the EASIEST SHIT EVER for retarded kids
>I literally just stop giving a fuck
>Mfw when he fails my tests for not showing work
>Have to retake it and eventually pass
>Have an A in class but we generally don't learn anything because 50% of the class is spent with him reprimanding us, 25% explaining concepts, and 25% waiting for people to take out pens and paper.

AP World
>Memorization and applying change and continuity concepts
>Get lazy, don't do chapters 11-18(Planning to do them over winter break)
>Mfw when I still get 57/60s and generally high grades with only reading the book
>But once again, I shouldn't bitch about this class because the tests are actually 20 VOCAB+2 essay questions that require thought.

Oh and at last, my English class. Fuck yeah Socratic Seminars that go nowhere!

>>	Anonymous de Bergerac-Fleur Sat Dec 11 02:27:37 2010 No.2185284 >>2185266 Exactly. If everyone learned to read a GOOD way, instead of learning the alphabet in FIRST FUCKING GRADE the world would be a whole lot smarter.

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 02:28:37 2010 No.2185290

>>2185191
I feel you bro, you're like a more neurotic version of me. Im just lucky i had great teachers who let me go at my speed. I didnt get held back by fuck tards who couldnt understand CAD programs in my engineering class and i got to chew through my algebra text book and managed to complete the entire damn thing. Normally classes dont even get 60% completed on the fucker since there are so many morons dragging people down. It helped that i had a naturally tall, broad stature and angry face even when i was completely fine, i didnt get fucked with as much as a person who never interacts with others should.

someguy Sat Dec 11 02:30:37 2010 No.2185300

>sister and I chip in to get my bro "Your child can read"
>they use it loosely
>he recognize letters, most numbers, confuses 7 for an upside down L
>mfw he stops using it, I want to call him and slap him for raising his kid to not be that smart
Ah well, even if he ends up confusing 7s and Ls, he's gonna learn to be a cook, programmer, though I worry about his vidya skills.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 02:32:37 2010 No.2185307 >>2185284 I couldnt remember shit like the alphabetical order till 5th grade, but i scored at the same level on reading comprehension tests as college students in 6th grade. Shows how great inane shit like that works out for you.

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 02:35:37 2010 No.2185331

So how many of you plan on giving your own kids an actual education if you ever become a parent? I don't necessarily mean take them out of school and do 100% homeschooling. Just spending some time in the evenings, weekends, and holidays actually teaching them the right way is enough.

I remember my dad helping me learn spelling by sitting down with me and asking me to look up words in a dictionary and other stuff like that.

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 02:36:37 2010 No.2185340

I managed to salvage my high school education by just reading wikipedia on various subjects all day, bumrushing through assignments when i could and still got 90s. I learned more from wikipedia than school has attempted to teach me. Kind of saddens me though that jimbo wales is a massive faggot, even before that whole internet begging thing. He takes so much credit for something that wasnt even his own idea, and completely rewrites history so that it wasnt his partner who did the most important part of setting wikipedia up.

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 02:37:37 2010 No.2185348

I'm a junior in a Florida highschool right now. It's a fucking joke. I've learned sooooooo much more from the internet/used textbooks about math/science than I could EVER learn from that place. My trig teacher didn't show up for about a month and they finally replaced her with a teacher who can actually teach but the kids are so far behind I doubt many of them will ever catch up. Seriously, about half the TRIGONOMETRY class can't solve one step equations. It's kind of depressing.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 02:38:37 2010 No.2185360 Trig isn't an elective class over there? Here in California it's Alg 2/Trig-Pre-Calc, Calc AB, then Calc BC.

>>	someguy Sat Dec 11 02:39:37 2010 No.2185363 >>2185331 I plan to have my child reading novels before 5. There's an article, kids can't passively learn verbs, they need parents, or at least adults to tell them and show them, otherwise it just doesn't stick.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 02:40:37 2010 No.2185365 >>2185348 What, like FOILing <span class="math">(x+2)^2[/spoiler] or worse?

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 02:40:37 2010 No.2185366
File: 19 KB, 544x489, 334.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>mfw I did my student practicum with my old HS chem / math teacher and graded a geometry quiz and the average score was a 4/10 and he decided to just blanket score and give them all 10/10.

Can't wait until I become a teacher to fucking fix this shit.

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 02:41:37 2010 No.2185377

>>2185360
No, four math credits are required to pass. Algebra I, Algebra II, Geometry and Trig/pre-calc

They don't offer anything beyond that at the actual school. You either have to take it online at Florida Virtual School (which isn't that bad) or duel enroll.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 02:42:37 2010 No.2185380 >>2185366 Let us know how you feel when they fire you before the semester is over.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 02:43:37 2010 No.2185389 >>2185365 In some cases worse. One kid I sit next to couldn't solve something like 4x+5=10.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 02:43:37 2010 No.2185391 >>2185377 Duel enrolling or taking classes online sounds like an attractive option. My HS only requires Alg 1 to graduate.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 02:43:37 2010 No.2185392 >>2185366 >Get threatened with losing job if you dont bullshit all the grades Good luck with that, its going to take more than it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 02:45:37 2010 No.2185405 >>2185380 Getting fired for giving kids grades they don't deserve? You only take classes where they curve huh?

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 02:46:37 2010 No.2185408 >>2185405 I'm just telling you what's going to happen bro. Schools don't tolerate teachers actually teaching anymore.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 02:48:37 2010 No.2185423 >>2185389 What the shit, <span class="math">x=1.25[/spoiler] in that case, didnt even take longer than 10 seconds to figure that out and i felt rusty. How can people not be able to do that.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 02:49:37 2010 No.2185429 >>2185392 Parents come in and start complaining that their kid isn't doing well. If enough complain you are blamed no matter how retarded the kids are. Enjoy your unemployment.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 02:51:37 2010 No.2185436 >>2185213 Sounds just like me. But the teacher doesn't realize it. But oh well, thanks for the story bro.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 02:52:37 2010 No.2185443 >>2185429 The obvious solution is to give the parents a copy of the exam and give them one hour to answer the questions. That'll shut them up.

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 02:53:37 2010 No.2185445

>>2185423
The person I'm talking about hasn't had a decent math teacher, probably ever. They just gave him a grade so they didn't have to take the extra time to help him understand the material. The sad part is he isn't stupid. He could learn the stuff if a teacher would take the time to help him.

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 02:56:37 2010 No.2185453

I'm an american high school science teacher that taught in public school and now teaches at private school.

1. Public School:
The parents don't give a fuck so the kids don't either

2. Private School:
The parents do give a fuck and have raised their kids to value education, so they do give a fuck

/thread

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 03:00:37 2010 No.2185466

>>2185282
Are you me. I've gone through so many good sci-fi books in the library that im having to reread shit from my freshman year, it feels great to see how much i've progressed with reading comprehension now that im in my senior year. Hell, i've even got some kind of hero i dont even know. He's donated a shit ton of golden age science fiction books and everyone of those books are leagues out of the shit they put today. Even one book predicted the fucking atomic bomb 34 years before it was built. The way it was described was uncanny in its resemblance to current and latter day nukes.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 03:02:37 2010 No.2185473 >>2185466 >the past and latter day nukes. Is what i meant. Fuck you all its 3 am.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 03:04:37 2010 No.2185480 >>2185453 There are shit private schools just like their are shit public schools. A lack of standards leads to cases where you have PE teachers teaching math class. Any shit school can get accreditation

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 03:08:12 2010 No.2185485 <span class="math">\mathscr{Herp Derp}[/spoiler]

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 03:09:37 2010 No.2185489

My math and physics teachers were the best teachers I've ever had.

The two lady math teachers I had through high school were great because they taught plainly and cleanly. If you didn't get it, it was your fault.

My physics teacher, Mr. Camp, was the greatest teacher I have ever had, and I only had him for my junior year. My two friends and I were the only Juniors to ever take that course, and we were going to be the first students to ever take the second part of the course in the history of the school, but no. He was fired because the remedial science course he was required to teach was just a baby-sitting class, and the students had the fucking balls to complain that they weren't learning anything.

Funny story:
>taking that physics class along with the valedictorian-to-be of the upper year who I hate so much I would kill him in front of his mother
>taking test of arcing projectiles involving sine, cosine, and such
>don't even "know" sohcahtoa, as I'm only enrolled in trig at the time (forced >:( )
>100%
>other VALEDICTORIAN-TO-BE fails the test with a ZERO PERCENT
>ZERO PERCENT, GODDAMMIT!
>everyone else does pretty poorly, so Mr. Camp decides to curve it
>VtB stays at 0%
>harass VtB loudly so that teacher can hear all day, erry day
>he lols

tl;dr Retarded children held me back from learning, and you can't curve a 0%

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 03:11:37 2010 No.2185493 <span class="math">\mathbb{Derp}[/spoiler]

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 03:12:37 2010 No.2185494 <span class="math">\mathcal{Herp}[/spoiler]

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 03:13:37 2010 No.2185498

>>2185453
i grew up in a country where almost all schools are public save for a few exceptions. the situation is:

in public schools:
-if parents give a fuck, kids give a fuck.
-if parent's don't give a fuck, kids don't either.
in private schools:
-kids don't give a fuck because it's impossible to fail.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 03:13:37 2010 No.2185500 >>2185494 >\mathcal{Herp} ends up as <span class="math">\mathcal{Herp}[/spoiler] Wat

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 03:14:37 2010 No.2185507 >>2185453 I went to a private middle/elementary school and a public school. I developed a good work ethic and desire to learn from the private school, and the public school was fucking easy, so amazing grades, amazing grades everywhere.

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 03:20:37 2010 No.2185534

OP tells the truth. I had several teachers that gave homework like that, and I went to what was supposedly one of the best public schools in my state. I had some good teachers too, but there are too many teachers who don't give a fuck who are allowed to stay on the payroll too long. I think the power of the teacher's union at my school was a little absurd. I had one teacher who wouldn't begin class until halfway through the period on a regular basis who was untouchable. I don't mean to go all conservitard on you guys, as I'm generally pro-union, but that's just too much.

However I have to agree with most of the other posts here that say the biggest problem is standardized testing. School funding is evaluated by how well students do on these tests that do a poor job measuring critical reasoning skills and actual depth of knowledge. The superficial spouting of memorized facts is the norm, hell, half of my class in high school couldn't tell you a damn thing about the history or science classes they took as soon as class was over. It's a sad state of affairs.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 03:23:37 2010 No.2185540 Sad part is, if the teachers bothered to actually teach the subject most of the kids would actually be able to pass the tests easily.

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 03:29:37 2010 No.2185567

>>2185282
>Mfw when he fails my tests for not showing work
FUCK teachers that don't give you points for not showing work. I'm sorry I'm not retarded and can do the problems in my head unlike the rest of the class yet you penalize me for not wasting my time writing it all out?

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 03:32:37 2010 No.2185579 >>2185567 The problem is that a lot of tests just use the same problems used previously on a homework with some variables changed. If the students know this they can just memorize the solution without actually understanding it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 03:33:37 2010 No.2185582 >>2185567 Its a test, what are you going to do if you finish early from not spending time showing your work? Twiddle your thumbs? Show your work to make sure you did it right, swallow your ego mr. edgy.

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 03:35:37 2010 No.2185584

>>2185567
>But then you wont properly learn how to evaluate/simplify/whateverthefucks all these problems if you dont show work
JESUS FUCK YOU STUPID BITCH WHERE DID YOU THINK I GOT ALL THESE CORRECT ANSWERS FROM

DO I LOOK LIKE A MATHMAGICIAN, I GOT THEM FROM DOING IT CORRECTLY IN MY HEAD NOT PULLING THEM OUT OF MY ASS ALONG WITH A COLORFUL ASSORTMENT OF FLAGS ON A STRING

GODDAMN

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 03:36:37 2010 No.2185587 >>2185582 I'll sit down and read my goddamn golden age sci-fi book for the remaining 90% of the class. At least one person is putting the xbox hueg library to use.

someguy Sat Dec 11 03:37:37 2010 No.2185590

>doing math in 10th grade
>in pen
>make mistakes (like always)
>SCRIBBLE SCRIBBLE SCRIBBLE
>teacher tells me that the math regents whatever graders only accept crossing out answers using one line through the middle left to right
>mfw
>I do it again and again, not necessarily to spite her, I just hate doing stuff wrong
>teacher gets all BAWW YOU'RE NOT FOLLOWING DERPY STANDARDS
And that is the problem with female teachers in math. Despite being the dominant gender, even neurological evidence shows a discrepancy in their understanding of math.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 03:38:37 2010 No.2185591 >>2185590 >>teacher tells me that the math regents whatever graders only accept crossing out answers using one line through the middle left to right Do it right to left, to show those fuckers who's boss.

>>	someguy Sat Dec 11 03:40:37 2010 No.2185598 >have dreams of going back to school and finishing >wake up >I have my GED, too old to go back, even if I could, holy fuck that'd be weird. Any else feel that way

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 03:43:37 2010 No.2185607 Hi sir, You need a bigger sample size before you make conclusions. I'm a freshman in college and I just went through public school (from elementary school through high school). My education was (for the most part) not like this. kthx

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 03:44:37 2010 No.2185615 >>2185607 Yes its all fine and dandy that you live in rich white people town or whereeverthefucks and had a fine education, its not the same for the majority of people. Just look at all the people shitting themselves in anger over the system.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 03:46:37 2010 No.2185620 File: 58 KB, 251x251, laughingwalruskid.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2185615 Nah, he just thinks he got a good education.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 03:46:37 2010 No.2185623 >>2185607 >"That dude is atrocious!" >"Really? But he has nice eyes." >"Oh, you're right. Never mind then." So the education system isn't horrible because some (as in not all) schools are good?

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 03:47:37 2010 No.2185626 >>2185598 Sure. Get into college instead, feels good man.

f Sat Dec 11 03:49:37 2010 No.2185633

>>2185567

I'm a proponent for people showcasing the work. I've seen people guess answers and actually get them right. Earlier this week, a shitload of people in my linear algebra class failed even though they wrote the 'correct' answers. We had to prove if a vector was a subspace, find basis, spans, etc; those are extremely conceptual. Finding a basis is easy (if you have span{u, v, w}, your basis will most likely be span{u, v}), but no one explained shit. The professor failed them regardless of them having the correct answer(s) simply because they were unable to prove their result(s). Shit was crazy.

If you know it, just write it. It's not going to kill you to put down the extra work. It takes like one minute, maximum, to write down a few extra words/steps when you know what you're talking about. It's just laziness, which I am guilty of from time to time; however, you have to push through it. Just write it.

someguy Sat Dec 11 03:53:37 2010 No.2185642

>>2185633
You sound almost like a rotefag, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

The problem with writing out work is if someone thinks and does their math usually primarily spatial and memory concepts, they then have to translate that out in words and symbols. If someone "does" math by visually laying out formulas and instantiating values, then rotefags have clear advantage even they have no idea what's going on.

f Sat Dec 11 04:05:37 2010 No.2185672

>>2185642

How do rotefags have an advantage? If I asked a rotefag, "explain your answer in full sentences," that person would be shit out of luck. A shitload of "rotefags" failed the aforementioned exam because they didn't have a formula in front of them. If someone truly comprehends the material, then they should have no dilemma elucidating their thoughts. I can submit that the majority of people don't think the same and, some things ''should'' be obvious, but the professor/proctor/grader needs to know the person comprehends the material.

Example:

x + 2 = 5

Ans: x=3.

It's very simple, but it won't take a shitload of time to write out x + 2 - 2 = 5 - 2. Come on.

someguy Sat Dec 11 04:09:37 2010 No.2185678

>>2185672
Someone who has the concept can have the disadvantage because when thinking in spatial/right brain visual terms, you don't need words. An example is the lambda function in lisp-like languages, the anonymous function that goes and does, only using a name as a placeholder identity.

Rotefags usually have symbolic/visual maps of how an equation should be written out and done in a specific order, without regards to the content. They can explain what something means in dictionary terms or by analogizing it's definition to a similar definition they know, regardless of whether or not they understand the concept.

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 04:11:37 2010 No.2185684

>>2185678

I'm with this guy. When you're writing out problems and solutions it should flow without any language at all. I should be able to hand my work to someone who doesn't speak English, and he can understand it (assuming he has a basic idea of the material to begin with).

However, an annotation here or there never hurts.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 04:15:37 2010 No.2185693 at uni for physics right now, growing up i went to public schools ONLY and i feel a lot better prepared than a lot of the private school kids i've talked to who didn't take any APs and can't write worth a damn

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 04:15:37 2010 No.2185694

Last year of homeschool reporting in(started late though, going from Private->Public->Private->Homeschool).

Learned more about economics and history on 4chan and wikipedia than anywhere else.

Took the ACT last year and ended up with near perfect english scores(I am a bit of a grammar nazi, from time to time.) and high scores in the others.

80% of the time science bores me(fortunately the remainder of science for this year will be nuclear science, which is one of the two fields of science I find fascinating), and I'm not really into computer science.

Couldn't stand history classes when I took them, but love watching documentaries on the military/history/natgeo/discovery channels. Really, I couldn't care less about the American Civil War when I was 9 because all I really had to do was link their nicknames to their real names, and that slavery was the only only only only only only only issue that brought about it.

Remember when my mother told me she learned Algebra in 4th grade when I was just learning it in 7th grade private and was just saying(paraphrasing), "It's a shame schools just aren't teaching people anything these days, because people want the USA to become a nation with a service-based economy rather than a production-based economy."

after rereading what I have typed up, I must add:
>/sci/
>my personal blog

f Sat Dec 11 04:17:37 2010 No.2185695

>>2185678

While that may be true, I believe certain professors(amended: GOOD mathematicians) will take heed of that and give relatively fair questions where an explanation can be given.

If everyone answered a question without explaining, then we would have a shitload of fucking problems in mathematical rigor. Sometimes, you need to explicate the reasoning behind your answer. I can say, "2 is irrational," but I need to prove that. I can't just pull a Gauss-type maneuver and say, "It is easy to see.." I have to backup my statement(s).

This becomes heavily stressed in proof orientated classes. Rotefags are usually defecated on in those classes.

someguy Sat Dec 11 04:18:37 2010 No.2185701

>>2185694
>computer science
>boring
http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/classes/6.001/abelson-sussman-lectures/
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5546836985338782440

>service vs production economy
http://www.amazon.com/Creating-New-Civilization-Politics-Third/dp/1570362238

someguy Sat Dec 11 04:22:37 2010 No.2185709

>>2185695
Fortunately for you, I can't make an informed opinion on proof classes, but I assumed that vast vast majority of the work is rote, from the amount of arrogance and dickery many mathemeticians implicitly profess.

Also yeah with PROOF level work, you need symbols and clearly detailed work. I'm talking more on say, homework or classwork, I don't think work should be forced to be detailed if people can demonstrate they can do the work without aid.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 04:25:37 2010 No.2185716 >>2185701 Thanks, will check that out.

f Sat Dec 11 04:31:37 2010 No.2185725

>>2185684

>When you're writing out problems and solutions it should flow

You already admitted to writing out the problem/solution, though. That's enough, and that's explaining your answer.

If I gave you (x-2)^2 = 0, I don't need you to say the following: "i took the square-root of both sides, then did that, then this, then that.." I just want to see some steps shown. Not just "x=2" because it's obvious. Of course it's obvious, but just show it. It doesn't hurt. Even someone who thinks differently can write that.

>>2185709

>I assumed that vast vast majority of the work is rote, from the amount of arrogance and dickery many mathemeticians implicitly profess.

We're dicks because it ISN'T rote at fucking all. You're asked unique questions and you just have to prove them off of the top of your head. It's rote in the beginning, but after the first two weeks, everything becomes strictly conceptual. The higher you go in classes, the less 'rote' it is. Why do you think mathfags scoff at most people? It ceases to become rote. Ask any serious mathfag and they'll tell you the calculus series is "baby plug-in" shit in comparison to the higher-end classes.

Proofs really examine your conceptual understanding of the subject. You don't even need certain mathematical symbols, but you have to just prove shit so it makes sense. I just had a proofing exam this past week(along with the linear algebra one), and the symbols don't help for shit if you don't comprehend the material. People spammed the exam paper with it, but they still weren't able to acquire full pts because of it. Proofs are very unique orientated, and it becomes a matter of style. One proof can be written 2 or 3 different ways, depending on how it's phrased.

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 04:34:37 2010 No.2185729

>>2185684
>And he should understand it
>Not putting in all the steps, making jumps available to you based on your abilities that may not be easy to see for everyone

Something doesn't seem right.

>>2185678
As to the whole showing your work thing, there are numerous ways to go about a problem. It could be that the teacher wants to see how you did it. What kind of math are you in? Knowing that would make this easier.

I'm far from a rote-fag but when I take tests I write everything down. It's really not that hard to do.

:D !!s2uh28knASO Sat Dec 11 04:35:37 2010 No.2185732
File: 98 KB, 624x311, 1291705726884.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

yeah its a joke OP..
im currently in grad school in the US.. and most of the undergrads, and a lot of grad students (specially the masters students) are fucking pathetic.. even the ones that are majoring in science.. they are incapable of holding a conversation by applying the knowledge they learn, they just repeat whatever it comes from the book they read.

Also, im taking a senior level math class right now.. the last time i took a math class was during my first years as an undergrad, like 4-5 years ago and it was just calculus (in a 3rd world country university).. i was astonished that i am ahead of the curve in my class, with just two or three Americans over the median.

And no need to mention the mathfobia US college students have

>>	Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. Sat Dec 11 04:37:37 2010 No.2185735 File: 33 KB, 593x545, awesomescii.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Critical thinking will be a huuuuuge thing.

>>	f Sat Dec 11 04:39:37 2010 No.2185740 >>2185735 Oh, lol'd. I remember that. Didn't we have some idea for an "Anonia?" Some bullshit like that? Someone said they were going to buy an island and everything. It was a really elaborate troll site.

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 04:41:37 2010 No.2185750

Shitty FL education here where a student only needed to pass Algebra 2 to graduate (not college level of course and there were alternatives taught by coaches ffs). Not being intellectually stimulated led me to seek other routes i.e. internet and viewing school as an annoyance to be done as quickly and efficiently as possible so despite a 1440 on my SAT (before the writing bit was added), I graduated with only a 2.8. These behaviors have now followed me into college where I do everything I can to get out of there as fast as possible, as in checking the attendance policy for how many days I'm allowed to miss and what parts of my grade matter most so I can avoid the other stuff. Of course this all inevitably fails and about halfway through the semester shit hits the fan and I breakdown leading to only worse performances. I'm not unintelligent; the work I do churn out is fucking brilliant but I have no ambition to learn because my entire life experience thus far has taught me that school is asinine bullshit with little to no payoff. So here I am, on community college for a second time, failing again, strongly considering the Air Force so I can be doing something of value and maybe get out of this shithole.

Thoughts?

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 04:43:37 2010 No.2185754

>>2185725

Yes, but let's say it's something that's actually slightly challenging. To pick a random question from my advanced calculus textbook:

Assuming 0 < C < 1, show that:

(a+b)^C < a^C + b^C, for all a,b > 0.

If you need words to explain what you're doing, you're doing it wrong.

someguy Sat Dec 11 04:44:37 2010 No.2185757

>>2185750
If you have glasses or are colorblind you will never be able to fly planes.

Also: I've thought about joining the military, my bro, sis, and dad did, and my bro and sis have like 4 years of college education payed for, got to travel the world, all that enrichment, free boarding, etc, and then they turn around and say don't.

Also if the military found out I have suicidal ideations they might kick me out.

>>	:D !!s2uh28knASO Sat Dec 11 04:45:37 2010 No.2185762 >>2185757 soo.. why would you join the military to begin with

>>	someguy Sat Dec 11 04:46:37 2010 No.2185765 >>2185754 Except you're going to be answering it in the exact way a book wants you to, and in a completely specific order. Rote learning is like Tetris, non-rote is like Deus Ex.

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 04:46:37 2010 No.2185768

>>2185750
You're like a copy of me anon, even down to the point of trying CC for the second time. Only thing is that I'm in CA. I was looking at the Navy instead, they've got that Nuclear program. I've talked to people who got out of it (Not recruiters) and they've said that if you spend your money on education instead of alcohol you can get out with a few degrees. They also say that the money is nice but the job is horrible.

>>	f Sat Dec 11 04:47:37 2010 No.2185769 >>2185754 I agree completely. I'm with you, dude. Lmao. I'm doing those type of problems as well.

>>	someguy Sat Dec 11 04:47:37 2010 No.2185775 >>2185762 Free boarding, enrichment, having at least two years of college completely paid. Also, you're going to have like 5x the hiring rate if you're post military compared to only having a GED.

Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. Sat Dec 11 04:50:37 2010 No.2185785
File: 68 KB, 862x627, while nobody was paying attention.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>2185740
They expected to get all of it done within a year, raise the money for that AND pre-fab buildings and so on. My plan for this spans over two decades. And far longer after it is established.

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 04:52:37 2010 No.2185792

>>2185757

No wishes to fly planes here. I'm an Asst. Broadcast Ops Manager for a television network and am looking into continue working in telecommunications. I would like to enter as an officer but I just can't get my shit together.

It's odd, as terrible as I do in school, I kick ass at my job. And it isn't like it's a great job or anything, rather I have just always taken pride in my work no matter what I'm doing whether it's labor, retail, or this office gig I have going for me now.

f Sat Dec 11 04:54:37 2010 No.2185796

>>2185765
>>2185765

N..no.

Proofs can be done several different ways. I've done several proofs differently than the book has done it, had it checked by numerous professors, and my proof methods are equivalent.

There are several types of ways of proving something. There's direct proof, indirect, contrapositive, set theoretic based, peano axiom based, etc. I don't know what the fuck you're talking about. At a certain point, your way of proofing becomes a logical sort of "style." People couldn't understand Gauss' proofs because his style was highly advanced and he wrote a lot of shit like, "it is easy to see.." when it really wasn't. Dirac and other mathematicians had to try fucking hard to fill in the blank spots.

Ramanujan also had a unique proofing style, but his methods were correct. Same goes for Leibniz and Newton; in fact, their proofing/stylization methods caused a huge clash. Not only did they use different symbols, but they used a completely different way of thinking. Everything they did, however, is equivalent.

"If a, then b" is logically equivalent to "If not b, then not a." Both can be proven different ways. I could also prove it by contradiction. There are a myriad of algebraic styles I can enact from that point, too.

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 04:54:37 2010 No.2185797

>>2185765

Actually there is very little (read: nothing) in the chapter on to do with this. It is literally a 'youre-gonna-have-to-think-the-fuck-out-of-this-bitch' question. Actually the whole textbook is like that. It's pretty wicked.

Anyways, more what my point in arguing in favor of 'rote-fags' is that for higher level courses, you can't fake it by doing problems. If you only know it by memorization you're gonna fail, so making someone explain it is pointless.

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 05:46:37 2010 No.2185932
File: 28 KB, 399x500, 1269542138081.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Finland here, you know with the best education in the world, let's me tell you how this education shit works. First of all, it's all about teachers. Teachers are the people who teach kids. They do the teaching. Everything else is just a tool to help the teacher at his/her job. In Finland all teachers from class one to university have to study education and teaching at universities for at least 5 years. After that they go to schools to teach kids as academic people. Another thing, they get paid good, so they enjoy their jobs and don't stop teaching kids. Sure it is socialism and requires a lot of money from everyone single citizens pocket, but how can we ever teach our kids well if we don't invest in it?

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 05:46:37 2010 No.2185933 >>2184795 they cant teach kiddies critical thinking then try to get them to be enforcers of a police state

>>	Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. Sat Dec 11 05:50:37 2010 No.2185941 File: 127 KB, 752x2320, 1286618107098.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2185932 Finns are bros.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 05:52:37 2010 No.2185943 >>2185069 this is actually an already emergent phenom and really the only hope we've got

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 06:13:37 2010 No.2185971 >>2185933 This. The ruling class has an easier time keeping the plebs in line if they learn to accept whatever they are given instead of thinking for themselves.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 06:13:37 2010 No.2185972 >>2185932 Another Finnfag here. Nothing to contribute to this conversation here, just wanted to say that Finland and other Nordic countries are the best, and the most beautiful flowers of this planet, or the strongest mushrooms of the mother spore.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 06:32:37 2010 No.2185998 >>2185972 >>2185972 Vittu mikä hinttari sä olet

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 06:45:37 2010 No.2186028 File: 10 KB, 246x251, 1279960969765s.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >mfw in Finnish "lukio" (sort of a high-school) students are being taught critical thinking, analysis and argumentation instead of memorizing little facts

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 06:49:37 2010 No.2186038 >>2186028 >mfw I learned the same things in a catholic school in the US.

>>	dolan !Uq56cE.45s Sat Dec 11 06:50:37 2010 No.2186040 >>2185998 Kuis hurisee?

>>	Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. Sat Dec 11 06:51:37 2010 No.2186043 File: 4 KB, 184x211, 1258884475300.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2186038 >my face when catholic school and critical thinking are being put in the same sentence

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 06:55:37 2010 No.2186050

>>2186043

Obviously never attended a catholic school.

I went to one for 2 years as a kid, the only christianity related thing we did was pray for 3 minutes at the beginning of class and have a cross above the blackboard. Same contents as any other school, same subjects and same teaching politics.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 06:55:37 2010 No.2186052 File: 46 KB, 640x480, LuluSmirk[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2186043 >mfw you actually have no idea what a Catholic school and just base everything you think you know on media and blogs.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 06:55:37 2010 No.2186053 OMG, Finnfags! Anyways, We finns are screwed. We came second in latest PISA study. We really need to give more to education. Still we are better than Japan.LOL

>>	Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. Sat Dec 11 06:57:37 2010 No.2186056 File: 9 KB, 429x410, 1258733004116.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2186050 >>2186052 How did you not see as the obvious trolling it was?

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 06:58:37 2010 No.2186058 File: 7 KB, 250x167, roll_eyes[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >mfw finns are surprised to see each other on the internet seriously, what the hell else is there to do in perkele

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 07:00:37 2010 No.2186061 >write stupid statement >get told >lol i trol u

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 07:00:37 2010 No.2186062 File: 21 KB, 314x322, 76318-derp[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2186056 >HURPA DURPA DERPY DURR >lol, idiot >HAHAHA FOOLED YOU I WAS ONLY PRETENDING TO BE STUPID

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 07:02:37 2010 No.2186066 >Entertainment - 'Lady' Gaga is a whore with a baby sound for a name and she is considered an inspiration to too many young adults. She's a talented musician and singer with an amazing voice. >hurr burr she's POPULAR so she must SUCK

>>	Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. Sat Dec 11 07:03:37 2010 No.2186068 File: 20 KB, 251x251, 1259668215753.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2186062 >HURR ARUGHDGRIDU YOU INSULTED A CATHOLIC SCHOOL HOW DARE YOU >Dude, it's called trolling >DURR LOOK AT THIS GUY HE JUST LYING ABOUT TROLLING

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 07:18:37 2010 No.2186101 File: 36 KB, 289x203, vanhanen.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >mfw I learned the same things in a catholic school in the US. >PISA results. u mad?

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 07:28:37 2010 No.2186134

>History homework: Memorize the dates of this and that treaty and this and that event. Zero analysis and a very shallow explanation of the events that they're memorizing.

Holy shit that is bad education. History courses should be more about the causal nature of events rather than knowing every events unimportant details. The how/why is far more important to understand than knowing the exact when.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 08:09:37 2010 No.2186203 File: 10 KB, 300x253, dumb.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] ebook by Charlotte Iserbyt free download at www.deliberatedumbingdown.com DEPARTMENT foidice

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 12:22:37 2010 No.2186995

school system at escambia county sucks. i just graduated this past year with a 3.5 and starting sophmore year I missed half the days. they don't check attendance. they don't put work on you even in honors. AP classes is the only way to get an education. I should of gotten an award for most missed classes in a 9 weeks (40 out of 45)

so cuz of my immaturity in high school my college study habits are fucked. and i have to learn how to set time schedules when i'm paying for it.

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 12:42:37 2010 No.2187068

The education system is fine

the test constantly referenced in "US is ranked X in Math Worldwide" is a test given to the general student population here, whereas in other countries (Germany, Japan) they are only taken by a hand-picked group of students from their top 2%.

OP started an epic shitstorm over his 12 year old niece's homework

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 13:24:37 2010 No.2187241 >>2187068 Burden of proof is on you.

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 14:53:37 2010 No.2187564

>>2187068
>hand-picked group of students

At least in .de this is not true. Participating schools as well as students are randomly selected, else the whole program would be pointless. Also the spread in the results would be much, much smaller. Consider the possibility that not all people subscribe to cheating.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 14:57:37 2010 No.2187583 Relax, America. As long as Russia is in shit, you'll have endless flow of pretty neat scientists and engineers.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 15:40:37 2010 No.2187719 >>2187583 Unfortunetly, you yankees manage somehow to steal scientists from everywhere else so does it really matter? Thou I think I'm gonna go with Japan instead as there is research on the subject that I study.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 15:43:37 2010 No.2187728 >>2187719 >steal scientists More like anyone with talent is going to move somewhere where they can monetize that talent and not get raped by the government.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 17:16:37 2010 No.2188182 >>2187583 This reminds me. Is it true that 80% of scientific knowledge is written in russian? If its true than what the fuck america, you didnt really win the cold war.

Anonymous Sat Dec 11 17:19:37 2010 No.2188205

>>2188182
Of course it is not true. Russia is actually pretty weak at science. It was more of the cold war thing. America for fearmongering among their people and Soviet Union lying to claim "Soviet Strong" among their people.

Have a look how few Science nobel prizes went to USSR. You'd be amazed.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 11 17:39:37 2010 No.2188330 >>2188182 Since English is the international language of choice for science, what do you think?

Advanced search
Text to find
Subject [?]Search by post subject. Leave empty for any.
Username [?]Search for user name. Leave empty for any user name.
Tripcode [?]Search for tripcode. Leave empty for any.
Email [?]Search by email. Leave empty for any.
Filename [?]Search by image filename. Leave empty for any.
From Date [?]Enter what date to start searching from. Format is YYYY-MM-DD
To Date [?]Enter what date to start searching until. Format is YYYY-MM-DD
Image hash
Search in	All Posts OPs Only
Deleted posts	Show all posts Show only deleted posts Only show non-deleted posts
Internal posts	Show all posts Show only internal posts Show only archived posts
Order	New posts first Old posts first
Capcode	All Posts Only by Users Only by Mods Only by Admins Only by Developers
Results	Posts Threads
Action	[ Simple ]