A next generation undersea science base, for exploring the deepest parts of the ocean.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.2175749]

We need another undersea science base. Not sixty feet deep, like the Aquarius Reef Base. We need one built to withstand the extreme pressures on the abyssal plain, an average of 2.5 miles down. The base would have robotic arms on the outside (controlled from within) and an "Experiment tray" with cages within the arms' reach, for experimenting on deep sea species at the pressure to which they are adapted. A minisub would interface with the station via docking ring, and a diver lockout would permit two scientists at a time to explore the benthic sea floor in "newt suits", constant 1.6 atmosphere exoskeletons.

This would be a revolutionary undertaking for a few reasons; it would disavow the old (1960s) approach to undersea dwelling by eliminating the moon pool. This would be the first undersea outpost to maintain surface pressure, rather than ambient pressure. It could therefore use a normal air mixture instead of Heliox or any of the other deep sea breathing gases. This would permit extended stays with no ill effect.

The lack of a moon pool would require newt suits and minisubs to dock the same way a space capsule does with the ISS; via a docking ring. This project would in fact have a great deal more in common with the ISS than any undersea structure to date. Except it would be situated in a truly alien world, seen only by a few, for brief periods. This is the real Pandora, except without alien catgirls or tiresome moralizing.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.2175765]

This is a Newt Suit, for reference. The deep sea equivalent of a space suit. It withstands pressure entirely by the strength of the structure, meaning the interior can remain at surface pressure, so no decompression is required.

We'd need a whole new class of Newt Suits to explore the benthic, though. titantium armor, a transparent sapphire dome, that sort of thing. At such depths, scuba gear wouldn't cut it, even with special gas mixtures. The human body simply cannot survive direct exposure at that depth. The deeper you go, the more parallels with space crop up.

In fact the station wouldn't necessarily need to be fixed to the sea floor. It could "hover", anchored by strong tethers on all sides, permitting a wider variety of subs to dock with it and permitting the observation of different levels of the ocean from the same geographical position.

[Anonymous No.2175769]

Nice proposal, OP. What are we looking at, in terms of estimated construction cost?

[Anonymous No.2175775]

Outer space was here, sea is shit tier.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.2175788]

>>2175769

>>Nice proposal, OP. What are we looking at, in terms of estimated construction cost?

Depends on the size. If made from steel, it would require at least 4 inch thick walls. The Bathyscape Trieste had 5 inch thick walls, but that's because it was overbuilt for safety. Probably a good idea in this case, too.

The best design choice would be a massive sphere. Attempting a modular capsule based design would create weak points wherever one module was docked with another. Using a single spherical superstructure would distribute the stress evenly and minimize the need for internal supports.

The windows would be disproportionately costly compared to the rest of the structure and thus kept to a minimum size. Why? At that depth they need to be made from sapphire, which is usually reserved for laser optics. The deep sea is pitch black so there wouldn't be much need for windows apart from the experiment station, so I don't anticipate them adding prohibitively to the price.

The greatest cost, really, would be custom casting the massive steel sphere.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.2175801]

>>2175775

>>Outer space was here, sea is shit tier.

Sup spacebro, found any aliens yet? I heard about that arsenic based life thing. You got so excited about that. NASA retracted the claim, though. Turns out the methodology was flawed:

http://www.slate.com/id/2276919/

In other news, seabros found this bizarre "squid worm" recently. Pretty much by accident. Don't worry though, I'm sure you'll find a microbe or something one of these days. :3

[Anonymous No.2175809]

>>2175788

So just copy the bathyscape but make it bigger? Also 4 inch thick walls means a shitload of steel, couldn't we use carbon nanotubes?

[Anonymous No.2175816]

>>2175788
What about energy? Where from?

[Anonymous No.2175830]

>>2175788
and oxygen.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.2175834]

>>2175816

>>What about energy? Where from?

The same type of compact nuclear reactor used on Navy submarines. They have a spotless safety record, and with that kind of power you could forcibly split oxygen out of sea water, either by dialysys (how subs do it) or by hydrolysis, which is a bit wasteful but would offer a steady supply of hydrogen fuel for the minisub and newt suits. (the alternative would be to use batteries and simply charge them from the reactor. Cheaper, but you'd have less range for exploration.)

A nuclear reactor for power/fuel and a hydroponic garden for food would make the station completely self sufficient.

[Anonymous No.2175845]

>>2175788
Sort of like this?

[Anonymous !3I4SJbCh8M No.2175850]

>>2175801
now that's not fair. i personally believe a discovery of a single microbe in space is a far more momentous discovery than discovering some strange sea creature.

that being said, i subscribe more to sea exploration than space exploration. Never stop being totally awesome, Mad Scientist. Much love.

>>2175816
good question. I'd guess undersea generators, using wave power, or that would probably be sea-level generators, actually.

>>2175830
salt-water plants?

>>2175834
that works too.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.2175853]

>>2175845

Hey, shit. Maybe that's what it was. The movie left that question wide open.

But yeah, huge sphere. Only shape that can sustain surface pressure inside and not implode at that depth.

[Anonymous No.2175856]

>>2175834
Now all we need is underwater construction workers......

[Anonymous No.2175867]

I appreciate your posts, Mad Scientist. As specific as your interests may be, you are a model /sci/ user.

[Anonymous No.2175878]

lets do it

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.2175884]

>>2175856

>>Now all we need is underwater construction workers......

Undersea welders make very good pay. But then, it's an infamously dangerous line of work. Pic related.

>>I appreciate your posts, Mad Scientist. As specific as your interests may be, you are a model /sci/ user.

Someone asked me to make another undersea thread. You may notice they've been falling off in frequency lately. I'm slowly transitioning to a new obsession; polar science outposts and what they can teach us about colonizing Mars.

[Anonymous No.2175897]

Space Ex:
Costs - untold trillions, dozens of lives
Discoveries - ice, rocks, the absence of life

Underwater Ex
Costs - Far Less
Discoveries - unique organisms, valuable resources

[Anonymous No.2175898]

Why not just send robots?
Not as exciting, but probably more practical...

[Anonymous !3I4SJbCh8M No.2175917]

>>2175898
easier said than done. programming them to do the proper work is ridiculously difficult, especially given the work and the conditions.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.2175961]

>>2175897

>>Space Ex: Costs - untold trillions, dozens of lives

True, but it also guarantees the longterm survival of the species. So does undersea colonization for most disasters like plagues and nuclear winter, but an asteroid would still fuck us up.

>>Discoveries - ice, rocks, the absence of life

So far, yeah. But Europa is extremely likely to have life. Interestingly it would require deep sea technology to explore, which is why Europa is a topic spacefags and seafags can both get excited about.

>>Underwater Ex: Costs - Far Less

True, and we now have a much cheaper way to sustain scientists underwater: http://www.likeafish.biz/

That's the single largest cost of sustaining the Aquarius Reef Base; the gasoline used to run surface air compressors to pump air down to the habitat. Centrifugal sea water oxygen extraction permits a base similar to Aquarius to get all of it's own air from the surrounding sea water using electricity, which means the surface buoy needs only solar panels.

[Anonymous No.2175964]

>>2175917
I meant ROVs (remotely operated vehicles), not autonomous robots. (I know robots have to be autonomous by most definitions, but I'm using the term loosely)

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.2175967]

>>Discoveries - unique organisms, valuable resources

We had a bit of a false start with this, although it's finally moving forward now. In the 70s the big discovery was trace quantities of gold and other precious metals in sand, everywhere on the sea floor. It was hoped we could develop machines to sift it out. That was a bust; you'd have to sift so much sand per day to cover just your energy costs that the business model made no sense.

The reason deep sea mining expanded nonetheless was the more recent discovery of very large, very pure precious metal deposits around and beneath deep sea volcanos. These are numerous but we have only the technology necessary to mine the relatively shallow ones. There are perhaps a few dozen that meet that description (the richest one in the world is in Papau New Guinea under 3,000 feet of water) meaning there's much legal contention over mining rights (Nautilus Minerals currently has the rights for the New Guinea site). India, China, and Japan are currently vying to lead the world in deep sea precious metal extraction. The way forward will be to develop the means to exploit much deeper deposits, something we'll either need very advanced robots for, or miners in Newt Suits.

[Anonymous No.2175979]

>>2175961

>Europa is extremely likely to have life

Personally, I have more hope in Mars bearing fruit than Europa. It's a bit far from the sun and I doubt tidal heating can make up for that.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.2176008]

>>2175979

>>It's a bit far from the sun and I doubt tidal heating can make up for that.

Define "make up for"? You don't need the entire sea to be balmy. Only a few undersea volcanos, which necessarily occur if there's a molten core (which, given the tidal stresses, there has to be).

I won't be surprised if 99% of Europa's ocean is barren. But if we can locate even one hydrothermal vent on the europan sea floor, I will eat my own face if it's not teeming with life.

Why? Because we find extremophile ecosystems around every hydrothermal vent in our own ocean, even with varying chemistries; some 'eat' methane, and thrive near plumes that are thousands of degrees, laced with intense concentrations of carcinogens.

I find it far more likely that we'll find life on Europa than Mars for that reason. Mars is still a great candidate for colonization, but Europa should be our scientific focus.

[Anonymous No.2176025]

>>2176008

I suspect the vents on our own planet were colonised by already developed life rather than served as geneses. But I guess until we get more progress on abiogenesis it's all moot.

Mars, however, we already know had liquid water. And despite being seemingly geologically dead, we have methane emissions from somewhere. This strikes me as promising. I'm more sceptical about colonisation prospect, though. It's gravity is too low. The atmosphere would need to be constantly replenished and there's no telling how the human frame will fare in those conditions. It seems to me that Venus is the only plausible candidate for colonisation.

[Anonymous No.2176027]

>>2176008

Given the horrific creatures we find in our own sea I dunno if we need to be poking around in an alien sea. Just saying.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.2176040]

>>2176025

>>It seems to me that Venus is the only plausible candidate for colonisation.

....Now there's one I don't hear often. Venus? As in, "temperatures high enough to melt glass and lead" Venus? We can't even send a probe there that doesn't melt soon after landing. How would we build a base?

Mars seems promising to me because, like the moon, it has a 40% concentration of oxygen in the soil (which can be refined out via soil sifters) as well as other elements that can be used to make rocket fuel. There's also subsurface water and unlike the moon we have reason to believe Mars contains deposits of fissible ore we could use for power.

[Anonymous No.2176059]

>>2176040

The advantage of Venus is the mass, which is a factor we will be unlikely to change in any forseeable future. The atmosphere is small enough to be conceivably modified by human technology in as little as, say, 1,000 years. There have been proposals by Sagan and co for genetically modified extremophile bacteria to be deposited into the planet and slowly take the CO2 out of the atmosphere, and I think something like that will be possible with enough progress in biology. Failing that there is the construction of sun shades, a gigantic sheet between Venus and the Sun to stop solar radiation and allow the planet to cool down.

The real problem with Venus is the rotation rate. That will no doubt play havoc with the weather and temperatures, but I still think its more feasible than trying to eke it out in 0.38g, waiting for the next oxygen shipment from Neptune.

[Anonymous No.2176066]

Mars is my waifu.

[Anonymous No.2176075]

We need another undersea science face. Not sixty feet deep, like the Aquarius Reef Base. We need one built to withstand the extreme pressures on the abyssal plain, an average of 2.5 miles down. The face would have robotic arms on the outside (controlled from within) and an "Experiment tray" with cages within the arms' reach, for experimenting on deep sea species at the pressure to which they are adapted. A minisub would interface with the station via docking ring, and a diver lockout would permit two scientists at a time to explore the benthic sea floor in "newt suits", constant 1.6 atmosphere exoskeletons.

This would be a revolutionary undertaking for a few reasons; it would disavow the old (1960s) approach to undersea dwelling by eliminating the moon pool. This would be the first undersea outpost to maintain surface pressure, rather than ambient pressure. It could therefore use a normal air mixture instead of Heliox or any of the other deep sea breathing gases. This would permit extended stays with no ill effect.

The lack of a moon pool would require newt suits and minisubs to dock the same way a space capsule does with the ISS; via a docking ring. This project would in fact have a great deal more in common with the ISS than any undersea structure to date. Except it would be situated in a truly alien world, seen only by a few, for brief periods. This is the real Pandora, except without alien catgirls or tiresome moralizing. I fucking loved Pandora however. Did you guys see Avatar? Man that shit was cash. Hell yeah.

[Anonymous No.2176073]

>>2176040
this
i will _never_ understand why nasa isn't strongly considering sending a machine that produces enough fuel for the return trip from martian soil AHEAD of an expeditionary force, it seems like a really cheap way to do it

fuck, if you keep sending autonomous storage tanks you could store enough fuel for multiple return trips + enough oxygen to have an autonomous greenhouse start producing food for the incoming travelers PLUS use the fuel for delicious energy production!

i mean why the fuck not? all of that would be super fucking easy to build and send, and if their designs are modular, you could rock out with your cock out and just send tons of habitat modules one at a time and they hook themselves up.

once the astronauts get there, they have a completely self sustaining habitat ready to go, and for cheap

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.2176089]

>>2176059

>The atmosphere is small enough to be conceivably modified by human technology in as little as, say, 1,000 years

Ah, I think I see where the misunderstanding occurred. I meant colonization, not necessarily terraforming. This is why I don't like space threads: Spacebros tend to casually refer to technologies far beyond our grasp as if they're already here and ready to be used. They have delusions of immortality and so they speak matter of factly about thousand year plans for grand projects despite the fact that nations rarely last that long, go through many regime changes in that time and being a short lived species we simply don't have the persistence of vision to complete projects on those timescales.

It's why I'm generally more interested in oceanic exploration. It's doable with existing technology and within realistic budget constraints. It doesn't require a dramatic retooling of political systems to mobilize the necessary resources, it doesn't require singular authority to direct, and generally it is in all ways more "down to earth".

Really, you guys read too much scifi. It makes promises that we're nowhere near capable of bringing to fruition.

[Anonymous No.2176092]

>>2176059
actually, a plain old sun shade would not be difficult, ever heard of a Lagrange point? venus already has a magnetic field so all you'd need is a 1km or so wide circle, make it of inflatable components.

and the extremeophile thing is a nice idea, just send a bunch of them and shower the entire planet with them.

hell with both of those, we could make venus almost earth like in a hundred years. we are almost at the point of being able to custom make bacteria and a sun filter would just me an engineering issue

[Anonymous No.2176095]

There is nothing wrong with Martian gravity. If anything, the 38% g will make lifting off materials from the surface relatively easy.

The only problem I could imagine is the ability of Martians to come back to Earth, but if we were bringing them back then it wouldn't be colonization now would it?

[Anonymous No.2176099]

>>2176089

Well the fact of the matter is space colonisation is not going to be worthwhile within our lifetimes, so might as well take a nosey at a few years beyond that, eh.

[Anonymous No.2176113]

>>2176089
you're really downplaying what we actually can do with current technology. it's more of an issue of "do we care enough?" and "it's expensive"

i guaran-fucking-tee you, if mars was found to have a very respectable concentration of, say, platinum, private corps would walk all up and down nasa's ass for it

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.2176117]

>>2176099

>>Well the fact of the matter is space colonisation is not going to be worthwhile within our lifetimes

Actually I don't agree; it'll just rely on less glorious, methods than are typically focused on in scifi.

For instance we don't have the means to build massive domes on Mars. There's a fixed payload size for rockets, anything we send has to fit in it's cylindrical cargo bay. We're far more likely to colonize subsurface lava tubes; the formation of dense volcanic rock as the lava creates these tubes effectively seals them against air loss. We could simply blast an entrance, install an airlock, and pressurize the interior.

There's also the promise of using chemical agents to bind martian soil into concrete, making it possible to raise "monolithic domes" (hit up google) on the surface. They would be opaque, but permit far larger livable spaces than we could send in capsule form.

The third option is inflatable habitats. Bigelo Aerospace leads the charge in this field, with two already in orbit. They permit a much larger livable space to be sent by rocket than would normally be possible with rigid metal capsule designs. These would be covered in soil for radiation shielding and used as a base of operations pending the construction of concrete domes and surverying for promising lava tubes.

[Anonymous No.2176123]

>>2176113

I disagree. There is compelling evidence that Mercury has all the riches of the solar system, but we're not rushing to colonise that.

Man, Mercury. Mercury is MY waifu. See that size difference? Betcha wouldn't think they have the same gravity. That little son of a bitch is chock full of all sorts of metallic ores, not to mention virtually unlimited solar energy. If the space age ever takes off whoever controls this baby will control the solar system.

[Anonymous No.2176130]

>>2176123

>forgotmyimage

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.2176138]

>>2176123

Now if we can only build something there without it melting.

[Anonymous No.2176139]

>>2176117

Possible, yes, but not worthwhile. I don't see interplanetary mining competing with Earth based resources for some time yet. Unless we miraculously start electing governments that care more about science than pleasing lobbyists (lolwut), there'd just be no incentive to do it.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.2176146]

>>2176139

>> there'd just be no incentive to do it.

Science. The methods I mentioned would make it much cheaper to build a much larger base on Mars than we could using the traditional interlocking capsules approach.

If we're going to build a science outpost on Mars anyway, it only makes sense to get more bang for our buck. A colony consisting mostly of sealed lava tubes and concrete domes offers many times the livable space per dollar compared to existing, capsule-centric plans.

Also, lol at how this started out as a deep sea science thread and somehow became a space thread.

[Anonymous No.2176147]

>>2176138

On the poles the temperature doesn't rise about some 100 C so it will do for a permanent base. We can build solar panels on the dark side and vacate it by the time the planet rotates to face the sun.

[Anonymous No.2176163]

>>2176146
SCIENCE

Marry me.

Also deep sea basically = space because omg humans can't withstand any other habitats but their own.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.2176177]

Just imagine this scene on Mars, but with an airlock where that hole to the surface is.

So much more room, essentially for free. Room to farm crops, even raise livestock. Room to live, work and play, without the costs associated with erecting a pressurized surface structure.

If we want to practice for this, we really ought to try sealing deep sea lava tubes/caves and vacating all the water. In some ways it'd be even more challenging than doing so on Mars, but the benefits would be similar. Hundreds of thousands of square feet of comfortable, livable space created at a fraction of the cost.

[Anonymous No.2176190]

>>2176123
The delta-v between Mars and Earth is greater than the Solar escape velocity. It's in effect the furthest place away from Earth in the Solar System simply because of the amount of energy it takes to get there.

[Anonymous No.2176204]

>>2176177

Shit's pretty cash. You should do space threads sometimes instead of just deep sea stuff.

[Anonymous No.2176219]

FINALLY SCUBACAT WILL HAVE A HOME!

[Albert Hofmann !!qMSEaYT8DI0 No.2176232]

>>2176219
L O L

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.2176233]

>>2176219

So will Scubacat's much more adorable Russian sibling;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkhMGo_476g

Check out his fucking reaction to the undersea kingdom. He's all 0_0

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.2176263]

Actually, both of those use the LAMA style acrylic sphere diving helmet. Like this one. I really wish they'd make a comeback.

They had issues with CO2 buildup, but newer models (like the Sea Trek line) have solved that. I suppose they're out of style now because the only benefit they offer is the ability to talk over radio, and "hardhat" aquanaut helmets offer that too without the vulnerability of a massive transparent sphere.

It's simple enough anyone could build one, though. An electric air compressor driving air down to the helmet, which is weighed down around the neck. Stagnant air is forced out the bottom.

Might do that for a future project come to think of it.

[Anonymous No.2176266]

This seems like something a lot of nations could get behind. The primary goal is science, sure, but this could be a vehicle for diplomacy as well.

[Anonymous No.2176653]

>>2176266

Yeah because look how well that worked out with the ISS, right?

[Anonymous No.2176676]

>>2176653

>>Yeah because look how well that worked out with the ISS, right?

Well....yes? That's been one of the primary benefits of the ISS program from day one.

[Anonymous No.2176863]

mad scientist we need you to stream moar squid-girl!

Jewtube has only up to episode6 subtitled.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.2177705]

>>2176863

Will do, although the rest are on anilinkz.

Also horry shet I just slept for like 14 hours. So much for THAT appointment.

[Anonymous No.2177928]

> in "newt suits", constant 1.6 atmosphere exoskeletons.

Why 1.6 rather than 1.0? It's not as if the extra 0.6atm is going to make a noticeable difference at that depth.