/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.2169734]

proof of god.

[Anonymous No.2169748]

that would depend on the physics engine used to run your universe

[Anonymous No.2169763]

Portals collapse if the surface they're on moves, leaving you to get crushed by the pistons.

[Quesadilla No.2169773]

Laws of physics don't allow portals to accelerate with respect to one another! GOD PROOF FAIL!

Physics: 1 God: 0

[Anonymous No.2169771]

you would be crushed into a planar space

[Anonymous No.2169777]

troll physics thread?

troll physics thread.

[Anonymous No.2169787]

You'd get crushed.

[Anonymous No.2169802]

You would get crushed by your other selves

[Anonymous No.2169804]

>>2169773
>laws of physics
>portals
sit down, man

[Anonymous No.2169861]

>>2169734
Okay. Working in this system, I understand that the portals are a reflection of space such that the yellow portal reflects the space of the blue portal. The problem can be understood by vector analysis.

We have two opposite vectors -> * <- approaching a point between the two vectors. Something weird has to happen because at some distance from one another, the only space to reflect is the person and the air around him that fills the portals.

Seems like the space should begin to distort. For easy of solving, let's assume the object between the portals is a Bloch sphere.

[Anonymous No.2169866]

>>2169802
There is only one object caught between the portals.

[Anonymous No.2169920]

>>2169866
then you would be crushed by yourself... pretty much, you now exist in a space of nothing, nearly a singularity if you will

[Anonymous No.2169934]

>>2169787
>>2169861
I got it, I think. You'd flatten out. Which would be weird because you have chirality. You could still rotate in two dimensions.

I read this crazy story when I was in grade school about a boy and girl. The boy could move to higher and lower dimensions and he shows the girl this. The first time it happens she manages to rotate herself around in the fourth dimension before returning to 3-space. Makes things taste nasty and such.

[Anonymous No.2169936]

>>2169934
Anyone know the name of that story?

[Anonymous No.2169949]

You would be caught in the 4th dimension. Portals are a transportation through the 4th dimension. Like an ant were walking on a newspaper, which is a two dimensional plane, and the paper were folded in the 3rd dimension so that the ant could get to another part of it.

[Anonymous No.2169959]

>>2169920
You couldn't crush yourself because despite appearances, you only exist in one place. You can't interfere with yourself, you can't exert force against yourself. It's spacial reflection.

[Anonymous No.2169980]

>>2169949
Edit: You would be crushed though, the barrier in the fourth dimension would be infinitely tiny and so you would pass through both portals and be crushed by you opposite shoulder

[Anonymous No.2169992]

>>2169934
>
I read this crazy story when I was in grade school about a boy and girl. The boy could move to higher and lower dimensions and he shows the girl this. The first time it happens she manages to rotate herself around in the fourth dimension before returning to 3-space. Makes things taste nasty and such.
HOLY SHIT, I READ THAT BOOK TOO.

[Anonymous No.2170018]

Just imagine that you were already standing in the portal when they came together. Clearly, you'd be crushed against yourself like a bloody pancake.

[Anonymous No.2170041]

>>2169980
Another edit: If you were rigid enough to break through the 4 dimensional barrier, then you could break into the 4th dimesnion and whatever exists there. I could calculate of of that if you wanted me too, it's just greene's theorem and maxwells equation

Sorry i'm so scatter brained about this

[Anonymous No.2170060]

>>2170041
>>2169980
>>2169949
My hat's off to you

[Anonymous No.2170075]

>>2169934
OH SHIT THE BOY WHO REVERSED HIMSELF

[Anonymous No.2170083]

>>2169980
The reflection's equal. Means force is equally distributed. You would be shoulder to shoulder with yourself, but you wouldn't me exerting force. Imagine immersing a 3D person in 2D.

Let us graph this in 3-Space using rectangular coordinates. Up and down on OP's picture would be along the z-axis, left to right would be the x-axis and front to back would be the y-axis.

If we pull the blue portal to the exact middle half of the troll would be poking out of the orange portal. Vice versa for the orange portal. If we brought both portals to equal distance such that you're finger tip to finger tip with yourself, you could reach through and hold your own hand. Left hand to right hand. Topologically like a Mobius strip.

Now, the weirdness begins to set in as the portals approach the middle of the graph (you). I believe you would asymptotically approach your spacial reflection.

Imagine you grabbed your left hand with your right hand through the respective portals and the portals began moving slowly to encompass more of you going up your arms. You're still holding your own hands, but your reflection has begun to fold on itself.

I'm not yet versed in Calculus, so if someone can do vector analysis and approaching an axis using spacial reflections, I'd appreciate the help in formally expressing this.

[Anonymous No.2170103]

>>2170075
We have a winnrar! Amazing book which bent my brain out of shape.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boy_Who_Reversed_Himself
http://teamikaria.com/hddb/classic/

[Anonymous No.2170156]

>>2170083
Translating through A in the positive direction along the x-axis results in translating out of B in the negative direction along the x-axis. Effectively, pulling A and B closer and closer together would result in the x-axis contracting.

I think we'd want to represent A and B as transformation operators approaching the y-axis.

[Anonymous No.2170187]

>>2170041
I love it if you shared the mathematics of this with us.

[Anonymous No.2170244]

>>2170187
I'd have to type it all up on TeX, it's pretty gritty. I'll post it tomorrow

[Anonymous No.2170377]

>>2170244
I eagerly await your post.

[Anonymous No.2170397]

you would become two dimensional

probably a massive nuclear explosion as all (or all but one 'layer') of your atoms split.

[Anonymous No.2170492]

>>2170397

>split

You mean cease to exist? Or you are crushed into a infinitesimally small z-component with finite x and y-components, and the atoms are compressed to within a planck distance of each other (or as much as the strong nuclear force allows).

[Anonymous No.2170541]

You would be stuck with a one way ticket to... The Twilight Zone.

[Anonymous No.2170577]

>>2170492
i'm saying the entire mass between the portals will be converted to energy and escape out the sides. in other words the same thing that would happen in any idealized press (perfectly solid/flat walls, cannot be stopped), even without the portals. if this is a closed system between the two sides of the press (nowhere for anything to escape)... it doesn't work under our laws of physics. something has to give.

[Anonymous No.2170757]

>>2170492
>>2170577
>>2170577
I definitely think quantum mechanics rule here.
Relevant phenomena that come to mind are Holographic principle, free-fall, free-space, singularities, blackbodies, entanglement, and cat states.

Assuming the portals make a perfect connection, we're separating the object between the portals from our space by encasing it in a separate subspace.

I definitely think superposition is possible, but this probably isn't an anti-matter interaction, so I wouldn't expect an annihilation event.

[Anonymous No.2170779]

I would think that portals have at least some depth, and if that's true then it would just create an infinite hallway and you'd be fine

[Anonymous No.2170905]

>>2170757
quantum mechanics doesn't real

[Anonymous No.2170918]

I have understood. You will not be crushed. Rather you will be ripped apart by the force of the two portals pulling on you to different locations.

[Anonymous No.2170940]

I just came from /v/. We're discussing whether or not there is any space between portals.

Considering the seamless, delayless transition of objects and people between portal A and portal B, I would think there is no room (which is why you would be crushed by your own body in OP's scenario).

[Clueless !!n3ACLrKHLRP No.2170953]

>>2170918
The same location in different directions. But the force may tear you apart though. You might still get crushed first.

[Anonymous No.2170957]

>>2169734

[Anonymous No.2170965]

>>2170940
Not true. You have space. You become the room inside the portals.

[Anonymous No.2170978]

>>2170957
This explains nothing. Where is force exerted upon you and by what? You provide no resistance to the portals being brought together. There will be no equal and opposite reactive force against you. Where then does the force originate to crush you?

Just struck me, we should look at this through the lens of the Geometrization/Poincare theorem.

Topologically, you become the space the portals are reflecting neglecting atmosphere.

[Anonymous No.2170991]

You guys are being idiotic. As soon as the pistons start moving relative to one another, the portals disappear.

[Anonymous No.2171001]

>>2170965
But what room is there? If there is room between portals, why is it that there is no delay between an object going into portal A and an object exiting portal B?

[Anonymous No.2171075]

>>2171001
They are the same place.

Imagine a number line:
0 1 2 3 4 5
With portals at 0 and 5 if you move to 5, you come out zero. This implies a circle or a periodic function. Similar to how 0 and <span class="math">2\pi[/spoiler] are the same point on the unit circle. Effectively, what we're doing by moving the portals closer is we're shortening the numberline.
0 1 2 3 -> 0 1 -> undefined
The distance between portals when they're brought together is undefined along the x-axis; hence, the conjecture that the space you occupy is two dimensional.

The fun thing is that the only object in this space would be you, so you'd be the space for all intents and purposes.

[Say, M()()t, how about a Wikileak Mirror Board !!yN7/INKbOsq No.2171085]

The portals are off, so you get squished. The end.

[Anonymous No.2171122]

>>2169777
THere. Fixed that for you.

[Anonymous No.2171205]

>>2170978
The force on your right shoulder comes from your left shoulder. The force on your left shoulder comes from your right shoulder. There is no space "between" or "inside" the portals. It connects the surface of one piston with the surface of the other. When the orange portal touches your left shoulder, your left shoulder will emerge from the blue portal to hit your right shoulder. You cannot get out of your own way as the portals crush shut around you. You can lie flat, and that will give you a little more time until you get your dick shoved so far up your own ass that your mouth comes out your mouth.

[Anonymous No.2171213]

>>2169763
>>2170991
>>2171085
We are at this point well aware of the fact that in the game Portal, moving surfaces disrupt portals. Now, stfu and gtfo.

We're discussing science here.

>>2169920
>then you would be crushed by yourself... pretty much, you now exist in a space of nothing, nearly a singularity if you will
You mean free space? The void, the empty space, etc.

Externally, you'd vanish as a closed spacetime loop was created. Internally, you'd exist as a 3D projection from a 2D mobius-like surface contained in a zero dimensional space.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacetime#Spacetime_intervals

[Anonymous No.2171226]

>>2170991
The device has been modified to affect non-stationary surfaces such as the Aperture Science Non-Stationary Troll-Compressing Steam Valve Piston.

[Anonymous No.2171231]

you get squished

[Anonymous No.2171234]

>>2169734

you will be crushed against yourself
enjoy being a nanometer thick

[Anonymous No.2171238]

Portal has closed unexpectedly
[OK]

[Anonymous No.2171257]

>>2171205
The shoulder to shoulder force would be limited. The sum of all forces on a body can not be greater than the sum of all forces generated by that body. An equal and opposite reaction of force from yourself would exactly cancel.

Something is remaining invariant with respect to the spatial reflection of the portals. Something would begin contracting about the x-axis to retain that invariance.

Remember the portals don't exert force on you, and you do not exert force on the portals. The piston would not spontaneously transmit force to you. You assert crushed, but I ask how? Newton's laws will not provide the necessary force to crush you as you do not transmit force to or from the portals.

The way I see it, it's more like a distortion of fields.

[Anonymous No.2171265]

>>2171226
Apature science laboratories would like to thank you for your fantastic job introducing the modified portal device. Welcome, subject_name, to the Enrichment Center.

[Anonymous No.2171275]

>>2171226
Welcome, subject_name, to the Enrichment Center. Aperture science would like to thank you for your fantastic job introducing the modified portal device.

[Anonymous No.2171338]

>>2171205
>>2171234
>>2171257
Something like this.

[Anonymous No.2171370]

It's a trick question, it would take an infinite amount of energy to crush the two portals together. So unless you could accelerate both pistons beyond the speed of light, it's a non issue.

[Anonymous No.2171390]

>>2171370
Why would it take an infinite amount of energy to push the two portals together? That would imply an infinite number of states between the pistons which would seem clearly absurd.

[Clueless !!n3ACLrKHLRP No.2171398]

>>2171390
Please. No one bring up Zeno's Paradoxes. Please don't.

[Anonymous No.2171409]

>>2171390
You must be right. After all, if you put two perfect mirrors facing each other, the number of reflections is finite.

[Anonymous No.2171427]

>>2171370

You wouldn't need to accelerate both beyond the speed of light. Just the velocity of both pistons combined would need to be greater than he speed of light.

IE: piston 1 @ .51c + piston 2 @ .51c = 1.02c

[Anonymous No.2171466]

you would be crushed between yourselves.

[Anonymous No.2171481]

>>2171409
>After all, if you put two perfect mirrors facing each other, the number of reflections is finite.
>assuming sarcasm, implying that the infinite hall-way is actually infinite and not bounded by a cosmological horizon.
Tell you what, start counting the reflections and when you get to infinity let me know. Also, if you could get me data on how far each iterated reflection is relative to the middle, I would greatly appreciate it.

[Anonymous No.2171486]

>>2169802
>>2171466
These imply that there is more than one you. When you look in a mirror, how many of you are there? Not how many reflections, how many of you are there?

[Anonymous No.2171501]

>>2171481
Okay.
Each reflection is L further away from the center where L is the distance between the two mirrors.

Also, even with the constraint of the speed of light, there can be said to be infinite reflections because they will of necessity expand faster than one can count.

In other words go fuck yourself for trying to be clever and failing so badly.

[Clueless !!n3ACLrKHLRP No.2171507]

>>2171486
Mirrors are impenetrable windows into the mirror universe, where your clone is a slave to your ever movement. He is compelled to mimic every twitch and motion, but he's watching. He's watching you and one day he won't be your puppet any longer. One day he will find a way to escape his accursed eternal prison and then he will have his REVENGE!

So there's two of you when you look in a mirror.

[Anonymous No.2171532]

Hello. You don't know me as well as you should, but I know you very well. I sit across from you when you watch TV, I stand in front of you when you look into the mirror, I walk along side you when you pass a darkened window, and right now I'm sitting across from you as you read these stories, though the monitor keeps you from seeing my reflection.

These are the times I like best. I hate repeating the motions you make, the facial expressions you take on...you disgust me. You're going no where in life. You're a loser and you don't even care. I know that if I were in control, things would be much better.

So that's why I'm going to kill you tonight. I know what you're thinking...why would I tell you this? And here, of all places...Well, it's quite simple. Are you really going to believe me? Even now, are you? Of course not. You're stupid enough to think this is fake. Well, it's not...

I suppose you'll realize that tonight when I rip your heart out through your throat, using the glass from your shattered mirror. I've tested my limits. I know what I can do. The other day, when you turned away from the bathroom mirror, I nearly grabbed your hair. You got away, but it was no matter. I knew I could do it. So what if I couldn't smash your skull against the glass just yet?

Don't be sad. Think of it this way: you were never going to amount to much anyway, so I'm doing you a favor. It's not so bad where I live, and you'll be going there quite soon. So long as you're always near the glass, They can't get you. They can't rip your eyes out as punishment for not dutifully waiting for your doppleganger on the other side to stare at you. Once you learn the rules, you'll realize They are quite harmless. Mostly.

Now if you could please turn away from the monitor, we can get this over with.

[Clueless !!n3ACLrKHLRP No.2171539]

>>2171532
And now I need to go get a glass of water. But I'll need to take my monitor with me.

[Anonymous No.2171540]

>>2171486
>>2171486

one part of your body tries to occupy the same space as another part of your body. the same way if you push your arms together hard enough, they will be crushed.
same here

[Anonymous No.2171548]

>>2171539
>Your face when you realize your power cord is not long enough

[Anonymous No.2171554]

>>2171501
I work on the predicate that evidence is necessary to substantiate any claim and counter-factual evidence is necessary to falsify any claim. I can't accept infinities on those grounds; hence, my issue with you claiming an infinity argument.

So information translates through space at a finite speed: c. There exists a horizon determined by L and the worldline of you which precludes gaining information about the state beyond L. More or less that's what you just said, so we can not say with any certainty that anything, in fact, exists beyond the horizon because we can not measure it.

While infinities might exist, we won't know because we are not infinite nor is any instrument of measurement that would be useful to us.

[Clueless !!n3ACLrKHLRP No.2171564]

>>2171548
I disconnected everything while staring into it. The hard part was filling the glass. I had to balance the monitor on one knee while staring down into it, while filling the glass blind. Hunched over in front of the sink I thought "If someone walked in right now, how the hell would I explain this?"

[Anonymous No.2171567]

>>2171540
Crushed by what? You? The press? the portals? Where exactly is the crushing force coming from? Draw a force diagram and remember the portals do not impart force nor do they react to force. Assuming you do not touch the edges, no force would be imparted to you by either the portals or yourself. Free-space would simply envelop you.

[Anonymous No.2171574]

>>2171501
>>2171554
Given that, can we agree that while the infinite hallway may in fact be the case, our measurement of it will always be finite?

[Anonymous No.2171577]

>>2171567

if moving a portal requires no energy then its trivial to create a perpetual motion machine.

[Anonymous No.2171585]

>>2171213
>We're discussing science here.

I don't think so.

[Anonymous No.2171604]

you can't move portal silly.

[Anonymous No.2171629]

>>2171577
You're claiming that enclosing the portals around the object would violate conservation of energy?
So are you proposing that the portals would be experience a repulsive effect as they approached one another?

I'd like to see the math on that. Both showing violation of conservation and showing the energy-motion relationship of the accelerating portals.

Think I see what you're saying though. If we envision it as being a pair of gravity wells, the amount of energy to move them would be more or less flat until they started to approach a mutual center. Seems like it would include the Schwarzschild radius in its description. Shouldn't be too surprising given we're talking about wormholes here for all intents and purposes.

[Anonymous No.2171633]

>>2171577
You're claiming that enclosing the portals around the object would violate conservation of energy?
So are you proposing that the portals would experience a repulsive effect as they approached one another?

I'd like to see the math on that. Both showing violation of conservation and showing the energy-motion relationship of the accelerating portals.

Think I see what you're saying though. If we envision it as being a pair of gravity wells, the amount of energy to move them would be more or less flat until they started to approach a mutual center. Seems like it would include the Schwarzschild radius in its description. Shouldn't be too surprising given we're talking about wormholes here for all intents and purposes.

[Anonymous No.2171634]

If the surface a portal is on moves, the portal disintegrates.

[Anonymous No.2171665]

>>2171604
>>2171634
You, see >>2171226

[Anonymous No.2171679]

>>2171634
The portals are moving, constantly, through space and time, at a very high speed, because they're attached to the Earth, dummy.

[Anonymous No.2171685]

well imagine two portals facing each other
a solid object (say a pencil) extends from a point a between the portals, into one portal, and ends at point a (or super close to it)
you move the portals apart

WHAT NOW ??>>>??>?

[Anonymous No.2171689]

>>2171679

not in the implementation used by valve
there is a very good reason valve does not implement moving portals in their game because IT WILL FUCK EVERYTHING UP

[Anonymous No.2171722]

It's not that portals can't be placed on moving surfaces. It's that they must remain stationary relative to each other.

[Anonymous No.2171758]

>>2171554
It seems you're trying to apply physical laws to thought experiments.

Plz GTFO and don't come back until you have something to say that is relevant to the discussion.

[Anonymous No.2171768]

>>2171758
I proffered that argument because it bounds the question of what would happen. Admitting infinities to this argument would necessitate postulating a much greater number of entities for little comeasurable effect. Ockham's razor dictates that we should prefer a finite explanation over an infinite one.

[Anonymous No.2171775]

>>2171768
>your beef when we're talking about how portals work