/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.2147713]

As you may or may not know, many SETI enthusiasts have stated that civilizations on other planets might regard us differently depending on what rank they are on the Kardashev scale.

For those of you not familiar with the Kardishev scale, it is a scale that gauges how advanced a civilization is based on how much energy it is able to harness. It states as follows:
Type I = energy equivalent of the mass of a planet
Type II = energy of a star
Type III = energy of an entire galaxy

Humans rate a meager Type .72 on the scale. While this sounds like a high ranking, the Kardashev scale is an exponential one so the gap between .72 and 1 is much larger than you think. With this in mind, civilizations higher on the scale would regard the human race as follows:

Type I = primitive island natives as opposed to "the white men"
Type II = animals that could potentially be domesticated as livestock or pets
Type III = little more than ants

That said, the higher these aliens rate on the scale, the less they would respect our will much like how we regard most animals. However, there are those of us who choose to diverge from the norm and respect and empathize with all forms of life. We often label such individuals as "hippies" or "tree-huggers" (and if they resort to violence, we call them "eco-terrorists"). Based on this, I think that while the majority of these aliens would look down on us, I think there will always be a distinct minority of these alien "hippies" that will empathize with us. What does /sci/ think?

Pic related: The Doctor's dedication to defending a bunch of ants like us would most likely be labeled a hippie by the rest of his Time Lord peers.

[Anonymous No.2147729]

Holy shit. I have new respect for hippies now.

[Anonymous No.2147734]

Wow OP, I think it is clear this guy is a god in scinec.

[Anonymous No.2147743]

No, because nikola tesla.
GTFO.

[Anonymous No.2147748]

you could be right, but only if they have developed the ability to 'grow' creature types similar to humans... otherwise i would think it more likely that they would be interdimensional and so unearthlike as to probably not be able to recognize us.

[Anonymous No.2147761]

so technically, saying that constructing a bigger battery makes us a better species?

wow.

[Anonymous No.2147769]

Assuming that the advanced alien species doesn't evolve past such meaningless things as "ego" and "feeling superior".
I think they would find us to be interesting in the same way we would find new life on another planet interesting even if it were more primitive life. Even plant life would generate great excitement.

[Anonymous No.2147773]

>>2147761
No, it means more energy allows you to do more things. For example, a Type III civilization would be able to toss around stars and planets as easily as basketballs and baseballs, perhaps even making a sport out of it.

[Anonymous No.2147776]

>>2147773
>implying energy, rather than technology means shit

[Anonymous No.2147788]

What Type III civilizations are currently documented?

I'm interested in reading up on these races, could you provide an rs link?

[Anonymous No.2147789]

And this minority will want to leave us to our own devices.

At most, they'd want to toss a Jane Goodall into the mist.

[Anonymous No.2147794]

>>2147788
Nigga full retard.

[Anonymous No.2147796]

I'm pretty sure the aliens, if they even had the presence of mind to recognize us, would probably rate us on our perceived intelligence, not technology level.

If anything, if we were perceived to be dangerously intelligent, they might even be somewhat hostile to us!

[Anonymous No.2147800]

>>2147796
They don't have to be hostile. They can wait for us to destroy ourselves, trapped on our tiny planet. Prime Directive style.

[Anonymous No.2147803]

>>2147794

can't you see?
he's mocking the hippy, for trying to generalize something that doesn't exist or isn't defined.

[Anonymous No.2147837]

>>2147748
>only if they have developed the ability to 'grow' creature types similar to humans
You mean like the Data Integration Thought Entity's "Human Interfaces" from the Haruhi Suzumiya series?

[Anonymous No.2147852]

>>2147776
>implying technology is worth shit without energy
Remember, an internal combustion engine is useless without gasoline or some other equivalent.

[Anonymous No.2147862]

The Time Lords were a type 4.5 and would have been a type 5 if not for the Daleks

[Anonymous No.2147872]

>>2147713
law enforcement gut here from another thread. I have never heard of the Kardishev scale, and wow am I impressed/intrigued. I would hope that even though we'd rate low on said scale, extra-terrestrials would do well to heed the power we can generate from the Nuclear Bomb and our ability to wage warfare.

[Anonymous No.2147875]

>>2147862
So wouldn't that mean that humans would be the equivalent to single-celled organisms to them? Man, The Doctor must have seemed like an ultra-hippie with microscopes for eyes to the rest of the Time Lords.

[Anonymous No.2147879]

>>2147872
>I have never heard of the Kardishev scale,

Have you heard of science?

[Anonymous No.2147881]

>>2147852
It'd make a good anchor.

[Anonymous No.2147888]

>>2147872
I think they would regard the nuke the same one would regard a plastic explosive if they are Type I or a firecracker if they are Type III, though if they have a tendency to be paranoid, they might regard our capacity for warfare as something to be reckoned with and might try to exterminate us before we become a threat, lest we become the Daleks to their Time Lords.

[Anonymous No.2147907]

>>2147888
Just as long as we stay away from Solarbenite they wont care

[Anonymous No.2147908]

>>2147875
>microscopes for eyes
<-- EXHIBIT A

[Anonymous No.2147912]

Reasonable enough OP.

I would also suggest we consider the possibility of an "enlightened" alien civilization.

It could be something like an ant colony with a small group of wise, benevolent leaders. A species capable of Type III amounts of energy production/usage but limits themselves to a few hundred worlds after seriously considering why they ought to expand and grow in the first place ( they may view the desire for growth as a vestige of ancient evolution now meaningless and potentially dangerous (I should have just said like our appendix))

[Anonymous No.2147949]

Reminds me of The Xeelee Sequence of books by Stephen Baxter.

The Xeelee would be type III, in the books they're waging war against dark matter life forms, the photino birds, which are accelerating the aging of stars to make the universe more hospitable to themselves. Out of ignorance humanity wages its own war against the Xeelee, slowly pushing them into the core of the galaxy over hundreds of years. They assume they're winning, but truth is the Xeelee have hardly taken notice. Eventually humanity's attacks start to interfere with the greater war against the photino birds, prompting the Xeelee to brush all of humanity aside in a few short years.

They're good books :3

[Anonymous No.2147964]

Damn that sounds pretty cool. I've read a few short stories by that guy and am now convinced his novels would be worth reading.

But with that neat synopsis I don't really have to.

[Anonymous No.2148134]

YOUR DELUSIONS THAT MERCY SHALL BE MET WITH MERCY ARE PATHETIC! DALEKS HAVE NO CONCEPT OF MERCY! YOU WILL BE EXTERMINATED!

DALEKS REIGN SUPREME! DALEKS REIGN SUPREME!

[Anonymous No.2148189]

>>2148134
well so much for OP's theory

[NexAngelus405 !!66nQjbyX73j No.2148244]

I'm actually writing a book based around this concept. It's kinda similar to the plot of the movie Planet 51 (a movie I have not and never will see). It takes place a million years in the future. Mankind as it turns out were the first intelligent lifeforms in the universe and has attained Type III status while everyone else ranges from prehistoric to 21st century level. The main character is from one of these lesser races, a 21st century level civilization that has yet to make contact with aliens. He ends up finding and befriending a human whose ship crashed landed on his planet. Lucky for him, she's one of these hippies that OP was talking about and is even labeled an eco-terrorist by the rest of human society, the reason her ship crashed being due to a run in with the authorities. They are able to make a connection, since thanks to genetic engineering all humans have psychic abilities and most of their technology is operated via telepathy, and so is able to transmit her feelings and intentions to him and read his as well.

[Anonymous No.2148259]

>>2148189
Well, Daleks are engineered that way. There was one exception though. Dalek Khan, the Dalek that went crazy attempting to break through the Time Lock where the Daleks and the Time Lords were trapped. The truth is that he had a change of heart after seeing the entire history and future of the Daleks as a side effect of breaking through the Time Lock and manipulated Davros and the rest of the Daleks into destroying themselves.

[Anonymous No.2148275]

>>2148244
So essentially you're going to write a 50,000 word fanfic quality science fiction story.

... don't quit your day job

[Anonymous No.2148277]

>>2148275
Well done, you just described every work of fiction.

[Anonymous No.2148280]

>little more than ants
Ants are the fucking zerg-god of all insects.

They can fuck shit in fucking armies man.

Don't fuck with ants.

[Anonymous No.2148307]

>>2148259
DALEK KAHN WAS WEAK. WE HAVE PURGED OURSELVES OF WEAKNESS. NOW THERE IS ONLY STRENGTH! PURITY! SUPERIORITY!

A NEW DALEK PARADIGM SHALL PURGE REALITY OF IMPERFECTION!

YOU AND YOUR RACE OF 'FOLIAGE EMBRACERS' WILL BE EXTERMINATED! THE EARTH WILL DIE SCREAMING!

[Anonymous No.2148398]

>the higher these aliens rate on the scale, the less they would respect our will much like how we regard most animals.

You made a conclusion too fast here.
Intelligence has brought us respect for life and nature, there are religions who condemn any form of violence and respect everithing in the universe in principle.

Maybe further sceintific revelations will result in more respect for nature.
Giving more support for this kind of peacefull ideologies within a certain civilization.

[Anonymous No.2148422]

>>2148398

OUR SUPERIOR INTELLECT DETERMINES YOUR PRESUMPTION TO BE FALSE. LIFE THAT IS NOT DALEK IS NOT TO BE RESPECTED, IT IS TO BE PURGED!

OUR ADVANCEMENT HAS ONLY PROVEN WE ARE SUPERIOR TO NATURE! NATURE IS CHAOTIC, IMPERFECT.

NATURE WILL BE EXTERMINATED!

[Anonymous No.2148437]

>>2148422

>NATURE IS CHAOTIC

impying laws of nature are chaotic

[Anonymous No.2148489]

If we are able to measure roughly how advanced we are using this concept, I would believe a civilization thousands years more advanced would also be able gauge mankind's capability, and more importantly, our potential. Because they must also have passed the same stage at some point, I think they would recognize us for what we are based on the technology we use, and that given enough time we might even become equals.
I think any civilization capable of space faring would recognize mankind as a potential future galactic neighboor simply based on the fact that we know mathematics and utilize electricity.

[Anonymous No.2148508]

>>2148489

Another point against stephen hawkings`s ridiculous claims here.

[Anonymous No.2148528]

>>2148489
>>2148508
His claims aren't too off if we imagine the aliens to be human-like in how they think and act, which no more or less likely then it being an incomprehensible lifeform a la Solaris.

[Anonymous No.2148538]

>the higher these aliens are...

[Anonymous No.2148674]

>>2148437
THE LAWS OF NATURE ARE SOUND, BUT NATURE ITSELF CONTINUES TO DISOBEY! IMPOSSIBLE THINGS OCCUR WHICH PUNY MINDS SUCH AS YOURS CALL 'MIRACLES'!

THESE ANOMALIES ARE UNACCEPTABLE! ONCE WE HAVE PURGED REALITY, ORDER WILL BE REESTABLISHED.

[Anonymous No.2148679]

>>2148674
It's funny because the time lords were going to do the exact same thing

[Anonymous No.2148711]

>>2147769
That is not how evolution works you dolt.

[Anonymous No.2148714]

>>2148711
>He thinks words only have 1 meaning

[Anonymous No.2148724]

>He believes Type II and III civilisations are possible
>laughingaliens.jpeg.

Fucking idiot. Without super luminal travel that shit is simply not going to occur. Ever.

Pull your head out your arse and accept that at best a race might have access to the mineral wealth of a few star systems but then only in terms of mining operation and solar harvesting meaning they will miss out most of the energy output.

[Anonymous No.2148735]

>>2148307
>FOLIAGE EMBRACERS

[Anonymous No.2148740]

>>2148714
Alright, I'll give this a shot. Can you explain what you mean by evolution?

[Anonymous No.2148743]

>>2147713
>implying advanced civilizations think in such primitive terms of "less than" and "greater than" and "equality"

[Anonymous No.2148746]

>>2148740
Intellectually

[Anonymous No.2148750]

>>2148679
Nobody said they were the good guys.

[Anonymous No.2148759]

>>2148746
So you mean that over time, a species with significant enough technological advancements, will all 'somehow' become Jesus?
Why would that happen? Because they want to?

[Anonymous No.2148776]

I just want to know how fast we're getting along.

[Scia No.2148794]

you assume the aliens have a human like psyche

[Anonymous No.2148872]

>>2148743

THE PITIFUL MAMMAL IS CORRECT! CONCEPTS SUCH AS EQUALITY OR GREATER THAN ARE IRRELEVANT!

THERE IS ONLY THE DALEKS - THE SUPREME BEINGS - AND ALL OTHERS.

YOU ARE ABOMINATIONS, AND YOUR CONTINUED EXISTENCE IN THIS REALITY IS UNDESIRABLE! THIS IS AN IMPERFECTION WE WILL CORRECT!

[Anonymous No.2148994]

>>2147713
You fucking hippies ruin everything. First meat, now alien life

[Anonymous No.2149059]

There is no other intelligent life, at least not in this galaxy. Allow me to explain.

First lets get this out of the way, Nuclear Pulse Propulsion can get us to the stars at a maximum velocity of 0.1C assuming that you have to decelerate again, if not you can reach 0.15C which will be important for latter. Also we will assume that there is no faster than light travel. Because that would open up another can of beans since humanity could convert an amount of mass equal to the observable universe into human flesh in 6,000 years if the 1994 population growth rate could be maintained. And it could be maintain if the superluminal travel would allow humans to access new resources fast enough.

So assuming that you could send out self replicating probes that would travel at an average velocity of 0.1C and that it would take each probe 100 years to make a 100 copies of itself each time that they entered a new stellar system, you could still visit every stellar in the Milky Way in under 1 million years. If theses probes carried humans or mechanized human descendants then our civilization could also spread as quickly.

If you programmed these probes to seek out life bearing exoplanets and crash into them an top speed, which for nuclear pulse propulsion is .15C if you burn all the fuel and don't plan on decelerating, you could purge all the life bearing planets in the galaxy and keep yourself safe from aliens forever. And if you programmed those same probes to accelerate toward any repeating, terminating radio signal and crash into the source body you could all target intelligent species. For that matter you could have them detonate there bomb stockpile before impact to scatter relativistic shrapnel cones at space habitats.

[Anonymous No.2149064]

>>2149059
And that doesn't even account for the danger of other species colonizing everything and taking all your resources. Basically your only real option to keep yourself safe is to attack with berserker probes first and hope than you can get everybody before they launch their own. So you need at least a million year lead on your galactic war to ensure your own survival.

In a universe were superluminal travel cannot exist, any species that creates even the most primitive for of relativistic vehicle and self replicating machinery is an immediate and lethal threat to all other forms of life. Because of the rate at which intelligent life can spread, you pretty much have to attack all alien intelligences without provocation and with even knowing if there is anyone to attack. As previously stated probes with a maximum practical travel velocity of .1 C could visit every stellar system in the galaxy in as little as 250,000-1,000,000 years.

Now with speculative but still possible technology it could be done even faster. Even if we discount confined fission as a energy medium for a reaction engine, hydrogen/antihydrogen reactions could still be used and we know they would work if there was enough antihydrogen. The solution to that being solar powered particle accelerators orbiting in the inner solar system. They would take in hydrogen from the solar wind and produce antihydrogen using abundant energy. A laser assisted launch could also speed outgoing ships of any type if a large solar powered array of lasers with an output greater than a terawatt was used.

[Anonymous No.2149069]

>>2149064
All this culminates in the ultimate plan for species survival, to completely disassemble the all the rocky planets of every stellar system we can get access to and use that mass to build Dyson Swarms of space habitats around the local stars. That way we can continue to survive around those stars until they burn out, which in the case of the lowest mass red dwarfs would be about 120 trillion years. The largest lofstrom loops possible with current engineering can lift 500 million tons a year and you could only fit about 1000 on earth it would still take nearly 10 million years to disassemble the planet. But it can be done only with proven technology, no super materials or new energy sources needed. You could power them using huge convection towers that contain liquid halite, which would be heated by the hot lithosphere you are uncovering. And of course the job would only get easier as the planet is taken apart: less gravity, more heat being radiated, more materials for building and maintaining the loops. That said you still have to use nuclear pulse propulsion to move the material for the first loop into orbit, about 2 million tons of it. But with nuclear pulse propulsion that is doable. We can conquer the cosmos with only what we know today, no soft scifi stuff needed. It will just take a very, very long time. Now of course you can't disassemble stars, or for that matter high mass objects like gas giants. But the earth sized planets or at least large portions of their lithospheres can be consumed. So any species that begins ruthlessly expanding could pull a Stalin and crush all the pacifist space hippies into oblivion with the weight of our own corpses if need be.

[Anonymous No.2149084]

>>2149069
Since we have not been hit with an rvk yet, earth was not disessembled, and there are Bracewell probes in our solar system there are a few hypotheses I have regarding the state of intelligent life in the universe.
1. We are alone; there are no other communicative technological races. It could be that we are the first or they are all dead.
2. Others never developed technology. Essentially that would make them luddites, which means they will be good for target practice.
3. They aren't communicative and don't make rock'n weapons of slaughter on a galactic scale like we want to. So they are sissies and they will die by our hand. Even if they are a billion times as technologically advanced as we are, by the time that we meet them we will have disassembled the planetary bodies of several stellar systems and will outnumber them a trillion to one, effectively outnumbering them a thousand to one. Zerg Rush, Zerg Rush, Zerg Rush!

Death to the Alien! Who probably does not exist, but better safe than sorry.

[Anonymous No.2149112]

The problem is that there is no such thing as ftl and never will be.

So there will never be a type 3 civilization. Oh me may become a type 3 species if we can spread to several hundred galaxies or more. But each stellar system would be a mini empire of its own with an rating between type 1 and 2 depending on how many stars they have. They would not be able to share energy across the vast distances between stars or galaxies to actually do anything with it.

tldr: Kardishev is scifi bullshit useful in fiction but not so much in the real world.

[Anonymous No.2149132]

>>2149059
>>2149064
>>2149069
>>2149084
>>2149112
And what does this have to do with the Ad Mech?

[Anonymous No.2149145]

>>2149112
>>2149084
>>2149069
>>2149064
>>2149059

I like this, preemptive strike against an enemy that may not even be present.

Plus the fact that it is viable with todays technology...

Someone should work on this. Away from civilisation though, "society" would frown upon it.

[Anonymous No.2149150]

>>2149059
>>2149064
>>2149069
>>2149084
>>2149112

...

YOUR ABILITY TO ENGAGE IN RUDIMENTARY COMMUNICATION WITHOUT A FUNCTIONING BRAIN IS IMPRESSIVE, BUT WILL NOT SAVE YOU FROM YOUR DESTRUCTION.

[Anonymous No.2149152]

>>2149132
I have to wait on the flood control, and I like techpriests. Also I felt it fit the humanity fuck yeah nature of the posts.

There will probably be no space hippies only space imperialists. Daleks vs Imperium is a go, only without the cichy soft scifi stuff.

[Anonymous No.2149191]

>>2148489
>I think any civilization capable of space faring would recognize mankind as a potential future galactic neighboor simply based on the fact that we know mathematics and utilize electricity.

are we protecting animals with potetion on our planet? No? That's what I thought.

[Anonymous No.2149272]

>>2149191
>>2148489
Any species recognizing us even as a technological civilization is a huge existential threat. Any intelligent species that is capable of interstellar travel(as we are now with orion drives) can spread like a plague and simply out compete the Culturesque egalitarian space hippies that preserve biospheres and think happiness or "enlightenment" is more important than power and imperialism.

The whole argument that aliens would not destroy us because "we pose no threat to them" is utter bullshit. We pose no threat now, but in one million years we could spread over everything. Indeed once you actually get to a new stellar system your population can again enter exponential growth until you utilize all the resources of that star and it's planets. All intelligent life is inherently dangerous to all other intelligent life by the very nature of it's capabilities. If you try to play nice guy you'll just get killed by others who didn't. And if everyone else is playing nice and you decide to be the bastard you win.

It only takes one bad apple to ruin the entire universe, and by God we need to be that bad apple.

[Anonymous No.2149314]

>>2149272
>by God

Oh my... I just imagined the diplomatic relations at the beginning of an intergalactic war...
"God created this universe for us!"
"No! God created this universe for US!"
...

[Anonymous No.2149327]

>>2149314
Firstly it's a common expression. Secondly, do you not have faith in the God Emperor of Man?

[Anonymous No.2149347]

>>2149314
One one race can inherit this cosmos, and it shall be the race of Man.

[Anonymous No.2149350]

>implying there's no chance the our humanity is the most advanced life in the universe.

[Anonymous No.2149367]

>>2147713
>All intelligent life is inherently dangerous to all other intelligent life

You are a retard who lacks or ignores any sense idealism and mysticism.

[Anonymous No.2149369]

>>2149112
Actually the Alcubierre warp metric looks very promising. Recent revisions to the metric show it would only require energy equal to the mass of Jupiter. While that would be moderately difficult for a Type I civilization (the equivalent of a mission to Mars for us), it would be relatively easy for a Type II civilization (as simple as traveling from North America to Europe by plane) and incredibly simple for a Type III civilization (like a trip to the supermarket by car).

[Anonymous No.2149373]

>>2147713
>All intelligent life is inherently dangerous to all other intelligent life

You are a retard who lacks or ignores any sense of idealism and mysticism.

[Anonymous No.2149381]

>>2149373
Life did not evolve by being passive.

[Anonymous No.2149386]

>>2149272
>All intelligent life is inherently dangerous to all other intelligent life

You are a retard who lacks or ignores any sense of idealism and mysticism.

[Anonymous No.2149410]

>>2149350
Well it is likely that we are the most advanced in the milky way.
see
>>2149112
>>2149084
>>2149069
>>2149064
>>2149059

Although the xenocide seems harsh I cannot disagree with it. I thinks that too many philosopher scientists like Sagan have given the public the wrong impression of those with degrees in the material sciences. More of us are imperialists than hippies.

Man is the measure of all things, because we hold the measuring stick. And if anything doesn’t like our assessment, we bash it in the head with that stick.

We war with ourselves and everything else, I cannot see why aliens would be the exception. It's just in our nature, and frankly maybe it should always be that way, it has worked well so far. Peace and sloth might ultimately be the nemesis of intelligent life, instead of war like so many scientists form the 60s and 70s lamented.

[Anonymous No.2149427]

>>2149386
Oh no I understand mysticism, there may be supernatural phenomena. But that has no effect on the scientific method what so ever. And given what I see, all intelligent life is anathema to everything else. We can barely keep from blowing ourselves up, I can't conceive of the idea that we will be nice to extraterrestrials.

I'll give you the idealism though, I do lack that.

[Anonymous No.2149446]

>>2149369
But interstellar hydrogen would impact the zone of altered space time and heat up the bubble of normal spacetime the ship sits in through Hawking radiation.

And how are we going to generate the artificial gravity needed to warp space to produce the bubble in the first place? Won't that require metric fucktons of exotic matter we don't have?

And it will take a million years to create a large enough dyson swarm to produce to much energy. In which time we could just have conquered the whole damn galaxy with von neumann machines using nuclear pulse propulsion.

Not to mention ftl just exacerbates all the problems with the hypothetical existence of aliens.

It would take only 888 years for the 2010 population of 6.8 billion to increase to the point where there is 1 human being for each square meter of ice free land on the planet. After 2679 years at the 2010 rate of growth, the mass of the human population would equal the mass of Earth, and after about 10000 years, the mass of the human population would be bigger than the estimated mass of the observable universe. Remember that every time you read a work of science fiction that mentions a ancient race that has had faster than light travel for more than ten thousand years. If we ever figure out superluminal travel(unlikely) the universe is doomed for certain.

And if it is possible why have the aliens not conquered the universe yet?

[Anonymous No.2149457]

>>2149446
I don't know the details, but their are two proposed methods, one involving the use of Dark Energy and the other involving the manipulation of the 11th dimension described by String Theory. Both require the energy mass of Jupiter, however the Dark Energy scenario sounds more plausible.

[Anonymous No.2149466]

>>2149457
Sorry. "there", not "their". Freudian slip.

[Anonymous No.2149478]

>>2149446
There is a theory going around that the reason why aliens have conquered the universe already is because there aren't any other intelligent lifeforms. WE are the first intelligent lifeforms in the galaxy or even the entire universe. Everything else is either primordial or prehistoric level, which means if humans don't go extinct, we could go on to become MASTERS OF THE UNIVERSE!!!!!

[Anonymous No.2149481]

>>2148134
>>2148307
>>2148422
>>2148674
>>2148872
>>2149150

By zeus I love you.

[Anonymous No.2149487]

>>2149457
But dark energy is just some force that expands space. We have no idea were it originates from, how it is created, or how to manipulate it. I mean I'm not going to stick my head in the sand if they have even a billion in one shot to make it work they should try it. It will make our universal conquest easier if they pull it off. But in the mean time we should continue with plan A, berseker probe spamming.

And I still don't think that it would allow species to unify into a true type 3 civilization just because of the amount of energy used. Indeed to use ftl with any regularity you would need so kind of scifi free energy bullshit, using the casimir effect or something. So to run one highly suspect technology, you would need another highly suspect technology. I just can see either one ever being practical.

[Anonymous No.2149510]

>assumption that alien life would have a similar sense of empathy as humans or even similar thought process

False premise. Start over.

[Anonymous No.2149511]

>>2149272

INCORRECT! STRATEGIC ANALYSIS SHOWS HUMANITY WILL NEVER BE A THREAT TO THE DALEKS!

A SINGLE DRONE COULD ERADICATE ALL LIFE ON YOUR PLANET!

>>2149481
DALEKS DO NOT DESIRE THIS 'LOVE'. WE DEMAND ONLY YOUR ANNIHILATION!

[Anonymous No.2149540]

>>2149510
Someone once said that no lifeform was ever successful by being passive. It's all about survival of the fittest. That said, I think most aliens would have started out as hunter-gatherers much like early humans. They may look and act different and possess different cultural values, but their basic instinct to survive would be the same. That said, altruism has a small but significant place in survival (you cannot survive without the help of others) and that is what may have resulted in the hippie phenomenon with us, which has persisted over several generations and may persist well into the future. That said, it may not be so far fetched to assume that such species would develop similar sentiments in their culture. But then again, it all depends on memetics.

[Anonymous No.2149575]

>>2149540

DALEKS REQUIRE ONLY ONE MEME!

[Anonymous No.2149585]

>>2148134
>DALEKS HAVE NO CONCEPT OF MERCY!
>species demonstrates an understanding of the concept in the act of disparaging it

Emotional response and poor logic are unacceptable flaws. These errors will be corrected during the assimilation of your species. Your biological and technological distinctiveness will be added to our own. Resistance is futile.

[Anonymous No.2149604]

>>2149540
Well not so much. Remember that the dominance of natural selection is coming to an end. If think that a lot of humans may get trapped in a lazy hippie like existence possibly focused virtual reality.

But those that do not chose that path will be the most vicious and driven of us. And by their own nature they would want there kids to be like them and never fall prey to that weakness. So each generation would become more vicious and interested in physical pursuits and survival, abandoning virtual reality, art, and philosophy. Ultimately culminating in a species of machine like humans that base there decisions on self interest. That does not rule out cooperation, but instead of the hippie cooperation for cooperations sake it would be cooperation for convenience's sake. For that matter the most vicious of us may make themselves and their descendants more vicious simply because they like themselves that way.

Meanwhile those that are hippies may not reproduce as much or be as productive and eventually be marginalized or die out entirely. It will be a kind or purification of humanity, cutting out all weaknesses. Love, hate, rage, and religion will probably still exist but moralities based on subjective emotionality rather than enlightened self interest and supernaturalism seem unlikely.

I think a lot of people make the mistake of extrapolating liberal or conservative social trends rather than looking at environment influences of the possible future behaviors of humanity.

[Anonymous No.2149618]

>>2149585
The Borg really on others for their reproduction rather than creating recombination of desirable traits from many species into a new drone and mass producing it. The Borg are weak, the Borg are fools.

AdMech came before theBorg and we do it better, for the Omissiah!

[Anonymous No.2149630]

>>2149618
The borg are actually capable of reproducing themselves. They assimilate other beings in addition to that.

[Anonymous No.2149635]

>>2149585

YOUR SPECIES IS LACKING. YOU MUST ASSIMILATE OTHER BEINGS TO IMPROVE YOURSELVES.

DALEKS HAVE NO SUCH NEED! NOR WOULD WE WISH TO TAINT OUR EMPIRE WITH INFERIOR GENETIC SPECIMENS!

DALEKS ARE WITHOUT EQUAL! DALEKS REIGN SUPREME! VICTORY! VICTORY! EXTERMINATE THE CYBERNETIC ORGANISMS!

[Anonymous No.2149646]

>>2149511
>a single probe could annihilate your species

Then why hasn't it?

[Anonymous No.2149648]

>>2149635
>implying the borg are a single species
>implying Daleks are not cybernetic slugs

[Anonymous No.2149664]

>>2149511
>HUMANITY WILL NEVER BE A THREAT TO THE DALEKS

Hello Dalek thing. Why I am exterminating your race? Because it's fun.

[Anonymous No.2149712]

>>2149604
The point that I am getting at is that selfishness and altruism go hand in hand with the preservation of a species. Self-interests helps to ensure that someone will come out on top in a contest of survival while altruism helps to prevent the extreme scenario of self-preservation (kill until there is no one left) from backfiring.

[Anonymous No.2149722]

>>2149664

PATHETIC ABOMINATIONS OF A PATHETIC RACE, YOU WOULD BE NO MATCH FOR THE DALEKS!

[Anonymous No.2149766]

>>2149712
But altuism is and emotion. You don't have to have empathy with another to display sympathy. You may simply help them because they will prove useful to you in the future, even indirectly.

An altruism suffers another blow. If you could make copies of yourself or just subservient drones to provide for you and do thinks that you can't or don't have time to do personally then your need for others is decreased.

Not saying altruism will entirely disappear, just that it's influence is likely to be minimized.

Rather than getting some egalitarian utopia, we'll probably get a ruthless meritocracy. But since the people would be designed for that environment they'd probably be quite content with it.

The idea of an intelligent race being peacable just does not fit. Peace is fine when there are no irreconcilable differences in opinion. But as soon as one appears there will be war. Probably over the utilization of resources. And frankly this vicious mindset would allow us to do the universal xenocide plan detailed here>>2149059 so maybe we should select for it. It is a question of making sure we are vicious enough not to get trapped in decadence or wiped out by aliens while still being tractable enough not to kill each other on sight.

[Anonymous No.2149793]

>>2149766
Still, my opinion is that while most of them would treat us like shit, there will always be someone that sympathizes with us much like how when we were either driving off, enslaving or slaughtering Native Americans there was at least one white person who felt for them, the most well known example being Davey Crockett.

[Anonymous No.2149838]

>>2149793
But the natives genocided the fuck out of each other before the colonials ever fucked with them. The Iroquois Confederation smashed the Algonquins and pushed them west of the Mississippi, then they attacked and exterminated Susquehanna and the Erie and took huge swaths of Pennsylvania from them. These were the same tribes that had been their allies against the Algonquins and similar culture. Plenty of other Indian nations did the exact same thing, but the Iroquois had writing and left a record of it. They were proud or their imperialism, and they had a right to be so, they were strong. Then they allied with the British against the French and the Algonquins, and then split in support of the British and Americans.

Genocide is treasured human institution. It's just part of who we all are whether we want to admit it or not. To say otherwise is just pure moralism. That's not to say it was always needed, but there is an undeniable proclivity towards amount our species.

[Anonymous No.2149852]

>>2149838
>toward it(genocide) among our species

fuck, i've got to stop doing this while drinking.

[Anonymous No.2150407]

bump