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/sci/ - Science & Math

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2141630 No.2141630 [Reply] [Original]

Sorry, but you guys are so crap at Mathematics it's a joke.

Most Physics fags don't even learn set theory. All they can do is solve equations like monkeys. Physics is based on flawed empirical evidence and monkey observations. You guys have no creativity, all you do is model nature. You guys are nothing more than monkeys.

Mathematics is based on logic and axioms. That why it's superior to your monkey science.

Pic related

>> No.2141642

Physics and math go hand in hand.

I think you're talking about engineers OP.

>> No.2141657

>>2141642

Nah was in a third year Physics lecture. They where doing first year Mathematics. Like QM is just vector spaces, stuff I did in first year.

>> No.2141767

>>2141657

Maybe it's your school then.

Physics and math go hand in hand. No refuting this.

If you go to higher engineering classes, everyone's like 'why must we do math. its sew hard'.

>> No.2141779

>>2141657
That's why it's done in first your physics e_e

>> No.2141785

*year

>> No.2141867

>>2141767

Go to Manchester university. Who had Bohr and Rutherford working in their physics departments in the past.

Why they doing first year Mathematics in a third year Physics lectures on Quantum Mechanics.

Also, why was Feynman so crap at Mathematics. He couldn't understand topology?

>> No.2141880

>>2141630
The modelling of nature requires alot of imagination, and creativity. As does math. In many cases, physics has inspired math (see for instance Ed Witten getting the fields medal), and in many cases it's been the other way around as well. It's true that the teaching style of physics isn't as rigorous as in math, and that fails, but it allows you to get to complex and interesting stuff faster.

>> No.2141915

Well, OP, then do us a favor and please develop something that is at least as sucessful as quantum field theory.

>> No.2141920

Mathematics: <span class="math">\sqrt{2}\approx 1.414[/spoiler]
Physics: <span class="math">\sqrt{2}=1.414[/spoiler]

>> No.2141921

ITT: butthurt physicist

>> No.2141928

I'm an engineer, I do both, with the appropiate rigor.

jelly as fuck

>> No.2141941

>>2141880

One Physicist wins a medal that shouldn't have been given too him.

Modelling is for apes. Ape work as it's just trying to get a sense of what some experiment is. Sort of like artists go around copying i.e. modelling reality with pictures.

Physicist don't do Mathematics anyway. They do 17th century Mathematics.

>> No.2142001

maths that physics do is totally different to the maths that mathematicians do

trouble is no physicist ever gets to know this, all the maths they do is basically high school maths made harder and taken to the nth degree.

meanwhile, in the maths department, we're getting up to all kinds of utterly different shit you will never understand. totally different approach.

not OP btw, just strongly agreeing

>> No.2142006

>>2142001
Yup, if only people would double major in maths and physics...

>> No.2142008

yeah well we made a nuke so fuck you

>> No.2142023

name a break through in math that has changed life as we know it

go ahead, I'll wait.

>> No.2142039

>>2142023

Computers. Made by Von Neumann and Alan Turing.

>> No.2142043

apparently English is harder than both math and physics because all of you fucking suck at it
/thread

>> No.2142052

>>2142006
Lulz no .. 5-6 years for physics alone is enough. While I do agree that I do chickenshit compared with what mathematicians do (and I have the utmost respect for people doing double studies), I'm happy with my little math I need.

Getting through one study with jobs on the side, a wife and my declining health is enough shit do deal with.

>> No.2142056

I occasionally talk to some mathematicians.

They don't know shit about stuff I, as a physicist, consider basic math.

>> No.2142057

Physicists/engineers apply math to the real world. They are the link between theory and application. Math that isn't applied is useless and there is no reason to pursue it if you can't apply it to anything.

>> No.2142065

>>2142008
>>2142023
not the point

pure maths is mostly useless/inapplicable.

but judged on its own merits, not its applications, it is the markedly superior brand

>> No.2142078

>>2141867
Also, why was OP so bad at grammar. He couldn't understand question marks?

PS Just because physicists don't learn useless math doesn't mean they're bad at math. Or that they don't understand that some of the arguments aren't rigorous enough. It's just that they don't care about it.

At any rate, while I'm typing this I have a textbook on non-commutative geometry open...so no, not all physics is "high-school math".

PPS >implying Feynman wasn't better at math than most mathematicians

>> No.2142096

maths grad here

we did this thing called maths methods, about 1/4 of first year's workload.

it was basicaly A level maths but more of it, much more.

the textbook was called mathematics for scientists and engineers.

we lolled a lot at the gayness.

>> No.2142097

>>2142078

Feynman couldn't do basic topology. He admitted he is crap at Mathematics and has only a shallow understanding of recent advances.

He know monkey maths.

>> No.2142105

>>2142057
>no need for truth, beauty and knowledge if it isn't applicable
aspie detected

>> No.2142113

>>2142105
>calling non-mathmaticians aspies
lol

>> No.2142124

>>2142006
In my country it's common to double major Physics and Mathematics if you've got the grade to do it.
I'm currently doing it, it's far harder than any other majors I know but it gives me a wide and deep view of these both fields.

>> No.2142137

>>2142078
they aren't better at pure maths as they've never done it. like saying i'm better at horse riding because i couldn't be bothered to try it

PPS feynman said he was pretty bad at a lot of maths

said he couldn't even do contour integrals, which is borderline maths methods. admitted he didn't know what the banach tarski paradox was all about. even though it's a fucking amazing result.

citation, surely you must be joking mr feynman.

>> No.2142160

>>2142137
I find it hard to believe that Feynman couldn't do contour integrals, consider exactly what he contributed to quantum theory.

>> No.2142158

>>2142097
...as I said, ignorance of math doesn't equate with ineptitude. Feynman was adamant about avoid recent math, which he termed "fluffy".

>> No.2142155

>>2142124
Eh .. it's gotta be different that what a double-study means here in Europe. A good 65% of the students drop out in physics alone in the first year, there are about 3 in 100 who attempt such a double-study and it usually takes them a good 8-9 years. But I jelly - I wish I had a more fundamental understanding of maths, especially in topology, differential equations and group theory.

>> No.2142154

>>2142113
totally true though.

pure maths people are borderline artists. physicists are just virgins.

>> No.2142153

>>2141941
Oh yeah, the conformal field theory, knot invariants, casual set theory, noncommutative geometry etc. is soo 17th centure, right? Seriously, string theory and other approaches towards quantum gravity has inspired a shitload of modern math. Also, if we required the rigour of pure math in physics we wouldn't get very far. The standard model isn't even proven to exist yet.

>> No.2142151

Math doesn't apply to real life. Physics does. Your theoretical infinities won't help you here without science to properly constrain it.

>> No.2142175

>>2142154
>borderline artists

So, shit tier, right?

>> No.2142181

>>2142137
God, how stupid are you?

>> No.2142191

>>2142153
>casual set theory

kind of proved the point

but anyway, whoever said you did 17th cent maths was wrong but kind of got the point.

what you do is a natural development of 17th century maths. more of the same. just like physicists maths is more of the same high school maths. same philosophy and approach. just much deeper and harder.

what we guys do, is very different.

we are the scientists of maths, whereas you are the scientists of the physical world.

>> No.2142197

>>2142155
Heh, currently studying theoretical physics 100% and on the side taking Riemannian geometry and complex analysis at the math departement. At a european university. Kinda harsh workload, though.

>> No.2142201

If any of you wankers actually studied some history of mathematics, you'd know that most of it got started by physicists.

>> No.2142202

>>2142181

What he said was true. Read his books Physics fag.

>> No.2142203

>>2142175
don't like art? must be physicist.

you've pretty much made my case for me.

>> No.2142216

>>2142191
casual in the sense of a casual structure, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causal_sets
What do you do that is so different? Give some examples please, I am interested (physics student here).

>> No.2142230

>>2142181
>>2142160
>>2142158
read "surely you must be joking"

if it's an ebook search contor/contour integrals

said he couldn't do them. reached a point where he couldn't do maths.

not because of fluffiness (pure maths is as cold and glacially true as you can get by the way), contour integrals are in no way the abstract type of pure maths he didn't like.

>> No.2142248

>>2142197
but damn .. if I started doing maths too, I would have to do a gazillion exams worth the credits ..

>> No.2142242

>>2142155
I'm from Europe, currently in first year, 26 people double majoring and none of us seem prone to failing yet.
Well, maybe 26 is not that big of a number to be considered "common", but out of the 9 people I know that were studying science last year and had a mark high enough to take the double major, 7 are doing it, not in the same universities though.

>> No.2142253

>>2142230
Still, this sounds like taken out of context. I've read a paper written by Feynman where he uses contour integrals to derive the Feynman propagator.

>> No.2142255

>>2142202
You're stupid because you don't seem to realize that not knowing something isn't the same as not being able to understand something.

A week before the Putnam competition, he was asked to join by professor. With a week to prepare, he got the best mark in the country.

>"hurr but dats monkey math derp"
Fine, it's ridiculous that although he had a far greater grasp of more "elementary" math than any math student in the country, he wouldn't be able to understand the abstract, modern math had he felt it worthwhile to study.

>> No.2142251

>>2142201
like we said

in the "17th" century style. when people were both.

split came in 19th century.

mathematicians moved on, you guys kept the same, just more of it.

>> No.2142262

>>2142255
*ridiculous to suggest that

>> No.2142264

>>2142242
Wait a second .. what does "Major" actually mean? Are we talking a full study in the case of 250 ECTS per study?

>> No.2142277

>>2142255
you don't judge people on what they could do if they worked at it. you judge people for what they can do.

if i claimed to be a greath athlete because i COULD have worked at it from age 7 you'd laugh at me.

>> No.2142293

>>2142277
That post actually made my brain hurt. Please, re-read what I said.

>> No.2142303

>>2142253
well that's a mystery.

because he was pretty clear he'd never learned them.

co-author maybe?

dyson did all the maths that put QED in order. he was a physicist who could math

>> No.2142305

There is quite a lot of overlap between maths and physics bachelors curricula over here. Especially if you minor in mathematics, a maths major doesn't take all that much extra time.

>> No.2142309

>>2142293
retard alert

>> No.2142319

>>2142303
Based on your English skills I'd say you misread him.

>Einstein mankin

>> No.2142321

>>2142305

U do mathematical methods, not mathematics.

>>2142303

Pretty much this. Saying that Feynman had a great skill in being able to reduce Physics to simple drawings.

>> No.2142327

>>2142321
>U do mathematical methods, not mathematics.

So do you, considering that you follow the same courses, taught by the same professors.

>> No.2142331

straight phycisist here, wish i'd done theoretical physics. labs fucking suck and i enjoy maths, wtf was i thinking?

is it too late to switch by 2nd year?

>> No.2142335

>>2142321
Oh, how cute. Criticizing Feynman's approach to QFT without actually understanding it.

The diagrams themselves are meaningless. They're only helpful in ordering the equations and to help sum all the amplitudes. The fact that you think Feynman reduced physics to 'drawings' makes me think that you're either a high schooler, or kinda dumb,

>> No.2142340

>>2142331
I don't think so, what courses have you taken so far/what have you missed?

>> No.2142361

>mfw the math physics DOESN'T use is pointless.

>> No.2142364

>>2142331
Wut? After 2 years, you're not even done with basic physics. Did you even have your QM / electrodynamics courses?

>> No.2142375

>>2142335
To be honest, that was also Schwinger's beef with the path integral. You do not have to be über-enganged in the underlying QFT to calculate transition amplitudes. You've got your Lagrangian, you've got your Wick theorem - if you're not completely braindead, you can do stuff.

>> No.2142387

>>2142340

hmm, i'm not sure i'll have to ask one of the profs or something.

>>2142364

i don't take your point??

>> No.2142397

How comes that Mathfags think everythink that isn't math is worth and senseless?

Most physicians don't have the same amount of math skill as an mathmatican. Where is the point/problem?
Mathfags normally have no idea of more than basic biology and nobody thinks that is a deal.
Ergo: Arrogant dumbfucks who don't consider application to be important are idiots.

>> No.2142401

>>2142387
I meant that you still have much time left before you "have to" choose a path within physics. Usually theory doesn't kick in before 3rd year or so ..

I myself was quite into the experimental side - mostly X-ray analytics, but then turned to theory and I'm now mostly doing quark-gluon-plasma.

>> No.2142411

When you understand why physicists resent engineers, you will understand why mathematicians resent physicists.

>> No.2142416

>>2142411
I'm a physicist and don't resent engineers. Maybe thats because I myself have an engineering degree ..

>> No.2142428

mathematicians have no relevance in the world. Only when physicists or engineers apply or confirm it does it become helpful. Enjoy playing with imaginary concepts to stroke your ego, kids.

>> No.2142433

>>2142411
a case of "I'm more abstract then you therefore I'm superior"?

>> No.2142446

>>2142433
In the end it's probably a penis-thing, you know?

>> No.2142463

this is a ridiculous thread, some mathfag bitching about physics.

We know that all exact science, is approximation. We use maths as the tool to increase accuracy, and well lets face it, its the only language that can describe the universe and its contents candidly. Each new type of math we learn we can potentially use to solve future problems. Advanced pure maths may have implications in QM that we have no real idea about yet.

Stop bitching about physics, the way of translating maths into a more linguistically friendly and applicable science, and bitch about the idiots that never pursue maths or science at all....

>> No.2142492

sci student here. i always considered myself as someone who just uses math.... eg a math monkey. the real aim of the study is to find pattern in the topic and try to give explanations of why this or that happens.


however i wish i were a mathematician to be able to see real abstract beauty.

>> No.2142501
File: 32 KB, 740x308, purity.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2142501

>>2142433

XKCD doesn't lie.

>> No.2142514

Hierarchy of Complexity. Math is the most basic thing. Then Physics applies math to understanding how everything in the universe fits together. Higher than that is chemistry. Then Biochemistry. Then Biology. Every science has its roots in math...but without the more complex fields, Math is just a philosophy with numbers.

>> No.2142526

Take Engineering major,
minor in applied social science,
Realise higher level maths never get used practically in 99.9999% of human society.
Laugh at Math Majors.

you jelly bro?

>> No.2142543
File: 23 KB, 400x280, mathfags.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2142543

<- pic related

>> No.2142550

>>2142514
>implying biology is complex at all and not just "hurr de durr look at this flower isn't life amazing"

>> No.2142555

>>2142550
0/10

>> No.2142556

Y'all niggas posting in a troll thread.jpg

>> No.2142561

OP you're also a monkey
You're discovering math, not inventing it

>> No.2142616

What have you ever contributed to mathematics, OP?

>> No.2142633
File: 37 KB, 500x208, fields-arranged-by-purity.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2142633

OP is a dumbass. Why getting so elitist on everyone? IMO, (in the workforce) physicists will be your closest friends and everyone else will think you're a basement critter in his own universe. Anywho, there is so much to be learned that physics students have to learn all of physics and take mathematics to at least match that level of physics. Physics + math will in the end converge to form a complete understanding of the universe. Math alone is useless. Physics has made 1000x times more contribution to the world than mathematics. Math = the vehicle, physics = the driver. in other words, you're a tool

>> No.2142813

OP's pic is Alexandre Grothendieck, fucking rebuilt algebraic geometry by himself. Abandoned mathematics in 1970 and chose to live in seclusion in France. He writes meditations, still waiting on his masterpiece "Recoltes et Semailles to be translated into english completely and printed. "This God of algebraic geometry..."