/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.2116790]

It's true.

[Anonymous No.2116801]

haven't seen something more true in a while.

[Anonymous No.2116802]

Cite?

[Anonymous No.2116811]

>>2116801
How about OP is a fag?

[Anonymous No.2116813]

OP is a gigantic faggot.
And a gigantic troll.

[Anonymous No.2116816]

>>2116813
>>2116811
>>2116802

>Homophobes

[Anonymous No.2116819]

OP is a fag
Is it genetic?

[Anonymous No.2116832]

Yes, its' rare, but there are females (not transgender, they were born like that) with XY chromosomes and vice versa, which shows that this is also a hormone thing.

[Anonymous No.2116849]

>>2116832

That has nothing to do with gender or sexual orientation. Your talking about a person's physical sex. That's a whole different thing.

[Anonymous No.2116861]

>>2116849
i hate you... for believing gender is in the mind and not physical, go die

[Anonymous No.2116864]

>>2116790
Transgender present.

I wish the various convoluted and twisted terms surrounding sexual orientation and gender were simplified. Got a lot of heated views in there, but you'd think science could acknowledge a little more the transgender phenomena with some proper terms.

[Anonymous No.2116865]

>>2116861
Gender is defined culturally. Wearing pants didn't used to be acceptable for the female gender role. Now it is acceptable for those of the female gender to wear pants. There is nothing physical about that. Did women suddenly become physically capable of wearing pants but previously they were not?

[Anonymous No.2116870]

>>2116865
thanks not gender... gender is having a dick or having a vagina, the rest doesnt matter at all

[sage No.2116871]

OP is obvious troll.

For anyone out there genuinely wondering (and who doesn't know already), there is no scientific evidence that homosexuality is either genetic or enviromental. Most likely it is some sort of combination of the two. A genetics only argument for homosexuality is hard to explain evolutionarily.

2nd of all, rational scientists don't subscribe to the pseudoscientific, sexist notion of "gender". When we refer to someone as a man, woman, dude, chick or whatever, we are specifically referring to their biological sex.
Something you cannot change with what are today called "sex change" operations (although perhaps some day in the future)...

[Anonymous No.2116874]

Gender is biological

Gender roles are not

/thread

[Anonymous No.2116875]

>>2116871
>>2116870

Gender roles become an issue when someone chooses to dress as a member of the opposite sex. If gender was purely physical than this wouldn't be an issue.

[Anonymous No.2116883]

>OP believes behavior is 100% heritable

[sage No.2116897]

>>2116875

People should be allowed dress however they want. Most people on /sci/ would agree with this. Heck, most people on /b/ would even agree on this.

Just because you aren't being treated fairly in society is no justification for lying about the facts, even if you think it will help your cause. This goes equally well for homophobia, racism and plenty of other sensitive issues too.

[Anonymous No.2116989]

>>2116870
Terminology. Sex is the biological "male or female", and gender is the societal role one takes. A biological male can, as we well know, take on the gender of a female and play the societal role.

>>2116871
One can get very, very close to changing one's biological gender using sexual transition.

[Anonymous No.2117251]

>>2116989

>One can get very, very close to changing one's biological gender using sexual transition.

If your sex chromosone arrangement is XY you are male. If it's XX you are female. If it's something else then you're not neccesarily either.
Untill genetic engineering technology becomes advanced enough to change the genes of adults, people are stuck with the sex they were born with.

[Anonymous No.2117262]

>>2117251
Sometimes people with XX chromosomes get born with a dick and vice versa. (rare tho) Explain this from your POV.

[Anonymous No.2117268]

>>2117262
>he thinks abominations cant be born

[Anonymous No.2117270]

gender would seem acculturated, though it also seems that human organisms are imprinted onto either gender and that there are two; there isn't a third gender so to speak

[Anonymous No.2117280]

>>2117262

they are female's who outwardly look male (or vice versa). They are most definitely not male.

[EK !D96TK2PSsI No.2117282]

you're a fuckin stupid idiot OP... gender is fcking genetic! u daft bastard!

[Anonymous No.2117299]

I hate these stupid semantic games. Sex = gender, which is genetic. Transsexuals and homos are mentally ill.

[Anonymous No.2117339]

well, i look it as this

physiology: you have certain organs, or a combination

sexual orientation: you are attracted to one apparent gender or the other

gender: a sort of cultural role that society imprints upon you, that you become aware of after or during maturity; and there tend to only be two genders

so for, example, I am male, am physically male, have male gender, and I am attracted to female gender, physically female, and a female that is not a lesbian

i am repulsed by physical-females with male gender acquisition as a "dyke" lesbian because they are manly, but i may be attracted to physical-females with female gender acquisition even though they are lesbian and have no interest in me

3x3 matrix permutations

[Anonymous No.2117340]

>>2117251
>>2117262
>>2117280
I personally know someone with this kind of issue. It is not rare and is often a motivator for someone to transition sexually. They will enter puberty as a male, and while they will not develop some manly characteristics(notably facial hair, penis size) and will appear androgynous, it cannot be said that they are biologically female. These people, even if unaware of their genetic problem, often feel a desire to be more like their "genetic sex" -how does a microscopic paragraph of writing determine these people as female, as opposed to a "pure male" who wishes to become female?

Someone else beginning sexual transition that is a normal XY can be considered biologically male, but quickly entering the social role of a female -and often already possessing the mindset and emotional states of a female. They cannot be said to be biologically female, but quite often in a year or less they are hardly male anymore. Do they fall outside of the rigid system? This is not uncommon at all anymore, and ostracizing people like this is inefficient as well as stupid.

The binary gender system simply cannot cover all of humanity. Even "born anatomically male" and "born anatomically female" are too rigid, sometimes. Just try to gauge people on a case-by-case basis.

[Anonymous No.2117534]

>>2117340

>sexist nonsense.

Males and females can act and think however the like. Making generalisations about male mindset/female emotional state etc. just exposes you for the bigot that you are.

[Anonymous No.2117543]

>>2117534
i didn't find the post you referred to as being bigoted

[Anonymous No.2117574]

>>2117543
>and often already possessing the mindset and emotional states of a female.

> implying there are completely rigid male/ female mindsets and emotional states

>implying that deviating from these generalised states makes you somehow less male/female.

Psychologists have tried and tried to characterise male and female personalities, but they can never get anything rigid, only trends. There's a huge amount of overlap.

Are camp homosexual males somehow less male because they don't conform to a certain stereotype?

C'mon...

[Anonymous No.2117581]

>>2117534
I refer to male and female as generally defined, yay!

[Anonymous No.2117592]

>>2117581

In the world of /sci/ence males and females are generally defined by their chromosonal arrangement.

huzzah!

[Anonymous No.2117598]

>>2117574
If they have not come up with anything rigid, then why should anyone use anything rigid in the first place? I think we're in agreement save for issues of how we term things. Keep in mind I was going against gender binary by trying to prove it an ineffective system!

>>2117592
I like shouting!

[Anonymous No.2117621]

gender has numerous definitions, including chromosomally defined, physical organ defined, and social identity defined. Obviously, there are genetic definitions and non-genetic definitions.
Nobody has presented any conclusive evidence regarding where our sexual orientation comes from. Have you heard something I haven't about this?

[Anonymous No.2117814]

>>2117598
>If they have not come up with anything rigid, then why should anyone use anything rigid in the first place?

I would be in favour of a world without mention of gender or sex, where everyone is just reffered to as a person. But it would never happen.

Despite how advanced we pretend to be, reproduction still forms the central drive of most of people's lives (including admittedly my own), so knowing and discussing people's biological sex is important.

[Anonymous No.2117852]

>>2117814
True. Maybe I don't see that as much as I should with a dead sex drive. I don't mind it being seen and noticed, but restrictions I strongly dislike...

[Anonymous No.2118406]

All men are women; all women are men.

[Krakengineer !!5XY+x7grkpt No.2118454]

I'm just going to leave this here.

Gender is psychological and sociological.
Sex is biological.

They are distinct because otherwise a hermaphrodite couldn't be treated as a man or woman; we'd need to make up some ambiguous gender role for their ambiguous sex.

[Anonymous No.2118573]

>>2118454
Does that fact that there is no strict dividing line between a chicken and an ancestral protochicken mean that species are not biological entities?

Aside from some cultural norms, males and females are clearly neurologically and psychologically distinct. Men are better at spatial reasoning, worse and object and location memory, worse at emotional intuition, relatively more suited to hunting than gathering, more aggressive, children are more likely to pick toy cars than dolls (even chimps follow this pattern), have more lateralized function in the brain (more activity appears on one side of the brain), differ in brainwaves, and have relatively larger cerebellum and pons, to name a few things.

Transsexuals are the products of sexual development gone wrong.

[Anonymous No.2118596]

Gender is a misused linguistic term. It only refers to sex in english because we have words like "he" or "she" that are different "gendered." Other languages have very different gender categories, that distinguish between time or purpose or other shit.

[Anonymous No.2118604]

even if being gay is not genetic who the hell cares because there is still no reason to hate gays.

[Anonymous No.2118605]

I can understand orientations as well as the physical sexes, but I'm not getting what gender is supposed to be. What sex a person identifies him or herself as? A societal role? Anyone care to clarify?

[Andro !ypSKYNdKKc!!bu91XenSAhy No.2118614]

Trans Gender here,
Bio sex is chromosomes, it is [at this point in time] unchangeable.
Gender is social, if someone wants to change it that should be up to the individual.

And homosexuality/gender choice is not genetic, as far as I know. Homosexuals that say they "knew" since they were children are morons, and usually raging faggots ;]

[Anonymous No.2118618]

>>2118605
It only means sex, it just refers to more social aspects like personal identification or sex roles.

[Anonymous No.2118625]

>>2118618
Like lesbian couples having a "male" and "female" role? It seems arbitrary.

[Anonymous No.2118626]

>>2118614
You chose to hate your body's sex? Why?

[Anonymous No.2118632]

>>2118625
Notwithstanding butches and femmes, lesbians don't have male and female roles.

[Andro !ypSKYNdKKc!!bu91XenSAhy No.2118633]

>>2118605
Gender is basically an identity, some people feel more like one than the other.
Its also a view of your body, just like some men want rippling muscles, others want breasts.

[Anonymous No.2118635]

>>2118632
of the lesbian couples ive know the past twenty years, yeah they do

[Anonymous No.2118641]

>>2118635
Lesbians generally loathe people saying they play out male and female roles. This was mainly what some outsiders interpreted butch and femme pairings as.

[Anonymous No.2118648]

>>2118604
Tell that to the Religious Right.

[Anonymous No.2118651]

>>2118633
A man who wants to be called a woman has a female gender? A furry might want to be called a dog. Why should we take it seriously?

Orientations make sense as they're pretty quantifiable. A person likes the opposite sex, same sex, both, or neither. Physical sexes, barring some strange cases, is pretty down-the-line as well. Gender seems like a trivial label. A man can act feminine sometimes just as a woman can act masculine sometimes. They don't change their gender in doing so, do they?

[Andro !ypSKYNdKKc!!bu91XenSAhy No.2118657]

>>2118626
I dont hate it, however I do dislike certain body features related with it (Muscles, beard, ect.).
And my personality does not fit that of a normal male, not to say Im a raging faggot, but most masculine activities make me cringe.

Of course I would hate being a girl just as much, I just pick and choose what I like best from both sides. Why limit yourself to half a pie when the whole things yours for the taking? :P

[Anonymous No.2118661]

these are now officially on par with religion and troll threads.
get the fuck out.

[Anonymous No.2118663]

>>2118663 get fuck yeah

[Anonymous No.2118670]

>>2118663
>like it's hard to get in a board that has four posts per minute

[Anonymous No.2118675]

>>2118651
A person can have a brain of one sex and the body of the other. A person can't have the brain of a dog.

[Andro !ypSKYNdKKc!!bu91XenSAhy No.2118679]

>>2118651
>>A man who wants to be called a woman has a female gender?
Why not? Should that not be their choice to make?

>>A furry might want to be called a dog. Why should we take it seriously?
Because gender is more or less measurable, no one has any idea what it means to be a dog.

>>Gender seems like a trivial label. A man can act feminine sometimes just as a woman can act masculine sometimes. They don't change their gender in doing so, do they?
No, but a man that wears girls clothing and wants to be called "she" is changing their gender. Or at least how they present it

[Anonymous No.2118683]

>>2118679
If a male-gendered woman wants to fuck a man, is it homosexual? Am I expected to say "yes, it's two males sleeping with each other, but it's completely hetero" ?

[Andro !ypSKYNdKKc!!bu91XenSAhy No.2118690]

>>2118683
No, I don't think so.

[Krakengineer !!5XY+x7grkpt No.2118703]

>>2118573 Does that fact that there is no strict dividing line between a chicken and an ancestral protochicken mean that species are not biological entities?

Your analogy is highly flawed. It makes as much sense as arguing eye colour (biological) is indistinct from choice in music (psychological) because there is no strict dividing line between turkey and proto-turkey.

>>Men are better at spatial reasoning, worse and object....
Well that's a nice list of the gender differences between men and women, but it doesn't do anything to demonstrate gender and sex are the same thing. It is because gender is identifiable that we can identify cases where someone's gender does not match their sex.

>>Transsexuals are the products of sexual development gone wrong.

You need to demonstrate that there is something wrong about transsexualism before you can make such a statement. Different =/= Wrong.

[Anonymous No.2118739]

>>2118690
Then why even have the label? The woman in this case is still going to be CALLED a woman no matter how male her gender is.

[Andro !ypSKYNdKKc!!IJXJOynt9R1 No.2118767]

>>2118739
>>2118739
Thus part of why transexuals want to change their apearance, if you met a ftm you wouldn't know he was once a female

[Anonymous No.2118808]

>>2118767
Then she's transsexual as well, which adds more into the problem. Someone who was just of a different gender than their sex is still going to be called what their sex is. I can't think of a situation where the label is actually useful (like sex and orientation are).

[Anonymous No.2118819]

Dunno about you people, but this is pretty convincing.

[Andro !ypSKYNdKKc!!IJXJOynt9R1 No.2118868]

>>2118808
But (if they do it convinsingly) they will be called a man, because that what people think he is. Would you demand to see someones genetals before you call them man or female?