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/sci/ - Science & Math

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2055287 No.2055287 [Reply] [Original]

Why is faster-than-light communication impossible in principle?

>> No.2055291

FTL communication does happen in Nature. See quantum-entanglement.

>> No.2055290

>faster than light

>> No.2055299

Because there's no such thing as "faster than light". Light moves instantaneously through a vacuum, and it is an amusing feature of the universe that it appears to have a fixed speed.

>> No.2055300

Because ftl is already at infinity

>> No.2055304
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2055304

>mfw first thought after reading picture, rape mother, kill dad, become president, then kill God.

>> No.2055307

>>2055291
I can't. Not very well, anyway. Everything moves "instantaneously" over distances smaller than a planck length.

>> No.2055308
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2055308

>>2055299
> Light moves instantaneously through a vacuum

u wot m8

>> No.2055310

>>2055304
back to the asylum with you, society not ready for you yet

>> No.2055313

>>2055308
Technically speaking, what's to keep this from being true?

>> No.2055315

>>2055308
You only believe light is moving slower than that because you're made of matter.

>> No.2055316

>Speed of light thread
>Enter to post obligitory quanum entaglement reply
>Beaten to it

>> No.2055325

>>2055308
Calculate it yourself, with the time dilation equation...

>> No.2055326

>>2055313
Technically speaking, it is true. Even if you are travelling infinitessimally close to the speed of light and perceive space and time warped to the point that it's nonsensical, light still seems to be moving exactly the same speed it always was. That's special relativity.

c is as infinite as speed gets.

>> No.2055332

>>2055325
I keep getting imaginary numbers.

>> No.2055335

>>2055316
no-communication theorem up in this bitch

>> No.2055339

>>2055326

MY SPEED GETS DOUBLES. NOW WUT.

>> No.2055343

>>2055339
ROLL AGAIN, BITCH

>> No.2055344

>>2055326
That doesn't mean c is infinite, simply that it appears to be traveling at the same (finite) speed from all points of reference.

>> No.2055345

>>2055304
I love you.

>> No.2055354

>>2055287
Because everybody else is being an ass, I'll give you the real answer: Because it breaks relativity.

Since all inertial frames are equivalent, if I were traveling at 9/10ths the speed of light, I would be experiencing half as much time as you (based on time dilation). However from my point of view, you would be experiencing half as much time as me, because from my point of view it's equally valid to say that you're traveling 9/10ths the speed of light and I'm standing still.

The only thing that resolves that paradox is that we can't communicate faster than the speed of light.

>> No.2055355

>>2055291
>FTL communication does happen in Nature
>Qauntum-Entranglement

Quantum entanglement doesn't prove FTL Communications is actually possible, it only proves that information can effectively "travel" faster than light.

>> No.2055358

>>2055355
Wait, I think now is a good time to explain what quantum entanglement is. Why is it not possible that the polarization of the photons is set right when they leave the atom? Doesn't that make more sense?

>> No.2055361

>>2055299
also, isn't it possible that the entire universe happens "instantaneousely" outside of time, and that we just experience time but it is illusorY?

>> No.2055365

>>2055361
>implying we are not living in a static four-dimensional time-space continuum in which all events have already happened

>> No.2055366

>>2055358
>Why is it not possible that the polarization of the photons is set right when they leave the atom?
>implying anything is "set"

>> No.2055368

>>2055365
That makes about as much sense as nothing.

But seriously, quantum entanglement? Anyone?

>> No.2055369

>>2055366
Well, I don't remember exactly, but I can't recall the specific bit of information that leads someone to believe that it isn't set when the photons leave that atom. It just seems like a ridiculous conclusion that they somehow interact faster than light, but there is a reason, I just don't know what it is.

>> No.2055371

>>2055344
Yes, but as you acellerate the distances you have to travel get smaller and smaller and take less time for you to traverse them. At 99% of the speed of light it only takes you a month and a half to travel a lightyear, because its distance has shrunk to 1/7 its original size. From your point of view, once you've slowed down again, you were traveling at seven times the speed of light.

At light speed travel time would seem instantaneous (if Lorentz didn't feed you a divide by zero error).

Faster than light? Your speed becomes imaginary.

>> No.2055379

>>2055355
Let me just rearrange what you just said.

>Quantum entanglement doesn't prove FTL Communications is actually possible

>it only proves that information can effectively "travel" faster than light.

If it is actually experimentally proven that information can in fact travel FTL, then so can communication, once "communication = interchange of information".

>> No.2055388

>>2055379
Information doesn't mean what you think it means.

Quantum entanglement allows information to either be transmitted or received. Never both. Communication, on the other hand, is a two way street.

>> No.2055389

>>2055368
Quantum entangling describes a proprierty of some systems containing objects that are linked to other objects in another system at arbitrary distance. a linked object will change his state when the object it is linked to changes its state and vice versa.

>>2055379
Information != Communication.

I'd remind you of the uncertainty principle but EPR paradox fits as far as i read it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPR_paradox

it is interesting, but a bit packed.

>> No.2055391

>>2055291
This isn't actually communication. There's no way of determining that distance.

Captcha: πόλεμοs fioutne, but I typed polemos. Such a rebel.

>> No.2055393

>>2055391
I meant there's no actual information passed.

>> No.2055396

>>2055354
>>2055371
this make my head hurt

captcha: boa-mill ISLAND

secret snake-breeding headquarters

>> No.2055398

>>2055393
Yes. There is information passed. We just can't determine whether it's information anybody actually sent.

>> No.2055408

In simplest terms, it's a violation of causality.

If causality is ever proven to be violated in certain cases (rather unlikely (inb4 god)) then it may open the door for faster-than-light travel (and anything, really).

>> No.2055431
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2055431

>>2055313
The fact that light DOESN'T move through space instantaneously. We've gawdam measured it.

>> No.2055435
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2055435

>> No.2055445

>>2055431
Light doesn't appear to move through space infinitely fast because we're moving so much slower than light relative to anything we can measure.

>> No.2055452

>>2055398
You can't send information; therefore it's indistinguishable from a predetermined event.

>> No.2055461

>>2055445
That doesn't make sense, shut up, read a book.

>> No.2055550

>implying 299,792,458 meters per second is the same as instantaneous

>> No.2055575

We've found ways to make light travel faster than C.

So I don't see why it isn't possible, at least in a lab or something

>> No.2055582

>>2055575
In which medium?

>> No.2055596

If you can make light travel faster than c, then how is it impossible to make information travel faster than c? I mean couldn't you design a device to send out light at different rates and have that binary signal itself be the information, similar to how telegraphs used to work?

>> No.2055621

>>2055575
sauce?

>> No.2055622

>>2055575
>light moving faster than the speed of light
>the "faster" light automatically sets the speed of light to the "higher" speed
>Fast light goes the speed of light

>> No.2055628

>>2055596
It is not possible to make ligh travel in vacuum faster than C.

there are however mediums in which radiations can travel faster than light.

>> No.2055632

>>2055596

Would only work for computers and such where you have solid media for the light to pass through.

>> No.2055637
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2055637

>>2055628
What?

>> No.2055641

>>2055628
No.
There are media in which electromagnetic radiation can travel faster than the speed of light in a vacuum.
It is, however, still traveling at the speed of light.

>> No.2055643

>>2055596
quantum entanglement is plausible.
Also, as sometihng approaches the speed of light its mass approaches infinity. The only way is to bend space-time itself. e.g. create a field that can actually bend space so that travel between 2 points is instantaneous.

>> No.2055650

>>2055641
>>2055637
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%8Cerenkov_radiation

Lightspeed is variable by medium in which it travels.

>> No.2055678

>>2055650
Well duh, but you didn't say you were talking about the speed of light in THAT medium. You just said faster than the speed of light which implies c.

>> No.2055736

YOU KNOW WHAT?

FUCK YOUR CAUSALITY LAWS. FUCK YOUR STUPID LITTLE THEOREMS. TIME CANNOT BE REVERSED. IF SOMETHING GOES FASTER THAN LIGHT, SO BE IT. NOTHING CAN EVER GO BACK IN TIME, NO MATTER THE SPEED.

FUCKING ASPIES TRYING TO TRANSLATE PHYSICAL THEOREMS TO LAYMEN'S LANGUAGE, THAT'S WHAT FAGS UP OUR SCIENCE. WIKIPEDIA IS WHAT TURNS SCIENTISTS INTO CLOWNS AND TROLLBAIT.

I SAID.

>> No.2055733

>>2055678
There was also an experiment in which light was passed through a cesium medium and apparently the light pulse somehow left the chamber before it even finished entering it, thus traveling faster than C.

>> No.2055776

>>2055678
Faster than Light does not always imply "In Vacuum" but yes, i should have specified that. your interpretation isn't however completely wrong, as there are mediums in which light travel faster than vacuum.

>> No.2055835

>>2055736
Relativity, Causality, "Faster than light communication".

Pick any two.

>> No.2055857

>>2055835
Faster than light communication violates causality.

>> No.2055865

>>2055857
Only if the universe obeys special relativity.

>> No.2057499

bitches don't know about my ansibles.

>> No.2057502

>>2057499
>implying orson scott card is not a mormon nigger

>> No.2057506
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2057506

>mfw memes can communicate faster than light

>> No.2057514

Quantum entanglement with two communication devices, and then slow travel them to desired locations; activate one, and the other responds in kind. Problem?

>> No.2057513

>>2057502

I know. I was all "wow, this series of books is really cool. I'm going to wiki the author." And then I find out hes a fucking mormon.

>> No.2057518

>You... you... DOUBLE BUGGER!!

>> No.2057519
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2057519

>>2057518
>>2057513
>>2057502
>>2057499

This is now an Orson Scot Card thread

>> No.2057521
File: 111 KB, 290x228, Orsonscottcard.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2057521

>>2057519

>> No.2057523

THIS THREAD IS SO FUCKING TERRIBLE.

ENTANGELMENT CANNOT BE USED TO TRANSMIT INFORMATION

FTL IS IMPOSSIBLE BECAUSE FTL IS TIME TRAVEL AND TIME TRAVEL VIOLATES CAUSALITY.

I HATE YOU ALL.

http://sheol.org/throopw/tachyon-pistols.html
http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/fasterlight.php

>> No.2057528
File: 773 KB, 2000x1372, Orson_Scott_Card_at_BYU_Symposium_20080216.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2057528

>>2057519
I would like to share my hypothesis that OSC is a closeted homosexual.

His books frequently contain subversive homo-eroticism such as the grappling between Ender and Bonzo in the showers, and the entire planet of male aliens called pequininos which cannot into heterosexality and masturbate each other.

Then he goes and supports this anti-gay group called focus on the family. Closeted gays often do shit like that.

>> No.2057537

>>2055287
>>2055287
>>2055287
>>2055287
someone PLEASE post or link to this comic!

>> No.2057542

Fuck year I loved Jane :3
I baw'd when Ender just ripped her out of his ear ;_;

>> No.2057543

>>2057528
I think ender is a huge faggot. If he was a real man he would have been glad he genocided an entire species.