[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/sci/ - Science & Math

View post   
File: 18 KB, 323x297, motor.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2000397 No.2000397 [Reply] [Original]

Can someone please tell me how this doesn't work? I want every physicist to punch as many holes through this as possible because i can't seem to without just looking at the laws of thermodynamics. Please and thank you

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeLlAQoVZIU

tl;dr Infinite perpetual motion magnetic generator

>> No.2000411

suppose I don't have flash, can you explain what you're talking about?

>> No.2000408

Magnet powered rotation does work.

It's just that it's not perpetual, because the rig will cease to function EVENTUALLY.

>> No.2000416

>>2000408
how eventually? Like the figures i got were that the machine can run for a good 300 years before the magnets lose strength so you are really limited by the quality of the metal bearings

>> No.2000420

It generates power, it's not indefinite though. There will never be a perpetual energy machine, but there is nothing that says a 99.9999% efficient machine can't happen. Pull a lever and power a city for 100 years.

>> No.2000426

You cannot punch holes without the laws of thermo.

This is because these perpetual motion generator types never provide enough specifics about their system for you to locate the flaw in their reasoning. Find a link with design docs or drawings, and people can effectively criticize them.

>> No.2000427

>>2000411
in super dumbed down terms if you put a pendulum like negative magnet on a pivot point and surround it with positive magnets it will spin for centuries and make you free energy

>> No.2000428

>>2000408
But in it's life cycle, which is clearly more then a year, I think it would be able to produce enough... well, POWER to make itself anew, as in it'll save you enough money to buy a new one

>> No.2000431

>>2000420
A 99.999% efficient machine wouldn't create excess energy.

>> No.2000424

The laws of thermodynamics.
There's your answer right there. They're called laws for a fucking reason.
Also you can't generate excess energy from a conservative force, "magnet motors" don't work for the same reason gravity wheels don't.
Magnets aren't magic.

>> No.2000435

No, he didn't invent free energy; he discovered a new form of energy, or a different application of a known form (EM potential).

>> No.2000436

>>2000427
well now I have to watch the video because that is the dumbest thing I've ever heard

>> No.2000437
File: 34 KB, 407x405, i_can_count.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2000437

>> No.2000441

without proper maintantence
dust, rust, wear and tear, it will cease eventually
it is not a frictionless system

>> No.2000443

>>2000426
there are tons of websites that show actual schematics and blueprints on how to build one at home. And there are tons of youtube videos of people making their own. Hence why its all so hard to believe

>> No.2000446

>>2000427
no, it wouldn't move at all, or it would move to the center and stay still.

Man, I really don't get how people don't understand this shit from simple intuition.

>> No.2000448

>>2000431
You know what I meant

>> No.2000452

>he claims it produces 5x the power it produces.
So a 500% efficient machine.
The laws of thermodynamics would have a few things to say about that.
>It's impossible
>It's impossible
>It's impossible

Also this video has been around for years, and we're still not being powered by them.

>> No.2000454

The current problem with any perpetual motion machine is energy lost due to things like thermal transfer, friction, and the simple fact that parts wear out and thus become less efficient. As long as entropy exists, there's really no way to get around it.

>> No.2000462

So if it won't run forever how long do you think it will run and will it possibly make you energy. Is any of this applicable. And I would really enjoy an answer more than " it just won't work" or " Thermodynamics!". If you all have determined why it won't work I just want to know why it won't. Please and thank you

>> No.2000463

>>2000397
> Can someone please tell me how this doesn't work?
Can you explain how it is supposed to?

>> No.2000466

>>2000462
Thermodynamics is the ultimate answer. You CANNOT have a more than 100% efficient machine because that would mean that you have created energy. The only reason these magnetic motor things catch people's eyes is because they don't understand how magnets work.

>> No.2000471
File: 17 KB, 276x345, magnetar.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2000471

Extracting electrical energy from it will stop it very quickly by imparting EMF on it. This is the property the common rube knows jack shit about and this ignorance is why they think such a device could work.

It couldn't even spin forever if it had the best bearings ever and was left alone. The magnets would lose magnetism over time as their entropy increases through interaction.

The most compelling evidence against perpetual motion and free energy is the fact that these generators aren't fucking everywhere already. If such things were possible then no one, not even the energy lobbies, could stop their proliferation.

There's no free lunch in magnetism and thermodynamics.

>> No.2000474

>>2000443
>there are tons of websites

Good, then you can find one and post it here as a reasonable basis for discussion. I've looked (briefly), and can only find obfuscated or incomplete crap.

>> No.2000477

>>2000443
>>2000446
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/3427891/free_energy_how_to_build_magnetic_power_generator_for_home/

I just don't know how to argue with this

>> No.2000478

Obviously I'd have to see exactly what they're doing to measure the power, but given what I see on that scope at 0:38, it could be a classic case of using funny waveforms that screw up the readings on their current and voltage meters, and/or make them unsuitable for calculating the average power.

Or it could also be just a plain scam, possibly being sold using a single device exploiting power mismeasurement. Highly suspicious is the fact that the guy's selling plans for the device but no device. It's easy to sell some design that just plain doesn't work, and then claim the consumer must have implemented it wrong when it doesn't.

>> No.2000480

>>2000471
This, we've known about electromagnetism for an extremely long time. If over unity with magnets was possible, it would have been done 100 years ago.

>> No.2000492

>>2000471
How long would it take for that to become a problem then. And whats with the rude tone for not everyone having studied physics?

>> No.2000496

>>2000478
Given what we see in
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOtM5KcqLDI
this is almost certainly power mismeasurement.

>> No.2000500

Build it.
If it works, make millions.

>> No.2000503

>>2000477
It is a hoax. If that worked, stepper motors would run forever without power.

But they don't.

>> No.2000511

YOU KNOW HOW I KNOW THIS IS ALL BULLSHIT?

THE PEOPLE WHO MAKE THEM AREN'T FUCKING TRILLIONAIRES YET

SAME REASON PSYCHICS DON'T CONSTANTLY WIN THE LOTTERY

IT. IS. ALL. BULLSHIT.

>> No.2000508

>>2000477
>>2000477
>>2000477
>>2000477
>>2000477
Can someone give me a reason this is not real?

>> No.2000515

>>2000508
>>2000511

You're welcome.

>> No.2000517

>>2000508
Oh come on...the disc is attached to a fucking motor. He even shows you it!

>> No.2000519

>>2000492
>How long would it take for that to become a problem

Depends on the design and quality of materials (strength of magnets, number, spacing, field interactions, etc...). You could conceivably make something that spins for months, but centuries are out of the question with our current means.

>whats with the rude tone for not everyone having studied physics

The rude tone is not for people who have not studied physics, but for people who persistently mislead and waste people's time and money on things that cannot work, yet insist they know better than educated physicists.

>>2000508

Build one.

>> No.2000521

>>2000477
That's a hoax.

Look at when he spins the disc with his finger. (i.e., not in "free energy" mode, but just to demo the LED.) It takes off and he has to stop it. He has a switch and power to the motor out of sight, and his timing was off, and so the wheel continued to be driven after his finger left it.

The video is rubbish.

>> No.2000527

>>2000517
Well, obviously, otherwise you couldn't generate electricity.

>> No.2000533

>>2000527
Isn't it slightly more likely that there's a battery and switch out of shot?

>> No.2000540

>>2000533
No no, I'm 100% sure it is a hoax. But I am just saying, he needs the motor even *theoretically* to generate electricity.

>> No.2000545

>>2000540
Indeed, but it does make it obvious as to how he did it. Most of those magnetic pinwheel people have to hide their motors carefully.

>> No.2000546

>>2000508
Because you can see him press a switch, and he's holding an electromagnet to spin a ring with magnets.

>> No.2000553

>>2000546
looks like he's holding a small speaker

>> No.2000556

>>2000545
Did you know that most electric motors, when spun, generate current? That's what's lighting the LED.

Mysterious magnetic force* spins ring, ring spins motor, motor generates power.

*The electromagnet in his hand spins the ring, or a switch connecting the the motor's' power input, spinning the ring and lighting the LED.

>> No.2000584

>>2000556
That's a speaker magnet, no electromagnet here.
Yes I am aware that motors can be used as generators. But no, it would still never happen.
There was a jump cut in the video, if it were that simple he'd have left it running and showed it working.
But he didn't he cut so he could wire up a battery and switch and conceal it with plastacine.

>> No.2000583

>>2000553
Do you know what speakers are made of? And yeah, could just be hiding power feed to the motor.

>> No.2000627

>>2000583
permanent magnets

>> No.2000643

There's an Irish company called Steorn has created a similar machine called the Orbo; claiming that it has a 3x energy output. They're also working on different types, such as the "Solid State Orbo" that has no moving parts.

Thoughts on this? Is it much different, or the same old thing? The company seems to like the naysaying. They've either got something significant on their hands or they're really persistent bluffers.

>> No.2000650

>>2000643
There will never be a device which generates more energy than is input to the system. Ever.

>> No.2000659

>>2000643
Either really persistent bluffers, or extremely misguided people.
If they'd created a 300% efficient machine, they'd be overnight billionaires and win the Nobel prize faster than your mom can suck a nigger's cock.

>> No.2000671

casimir effect -> infinite free energy

u so jelly

>> No.2000712

>>2000643
Why aren't they licensing the technology to be used everywhere, ever?

>> No.2000759

You fags are forgetting that magnets don't work forever.
tl;dr - it's not a perpetual motion machine
>inb4 hurr durr tl;dr after one line is retarded

>> No.2000781

>>2000759
Yes, actually magnets do work forever, as long as they are kept below the currie temperature.

People who think you can extract energy from magnets until they lose their magnetism are even dumber than those who think you can get infinite energy from them.

>> No.2000803

>>2000781
> I don't know how demagnitizers work

>> No.2001072

itt: troll physics 2.0

>> No.2001099

>>2000803
I do, actually. Do you?

>> No.2002403

You know what's so fucking hilarious about all of this?

Magnets are a source of hundreds of years of free kinetic energy, demostrated every time you watch a magnet pull or push other magnets and metals, yet you douch-cunt retards all love to scream "THERMODYNAMICS SEZ NO!!!" without even giving some actual thought into the possibility of harnessing what is actually a propetual force ALREADY.

Magnets ARE perpetual force, you stupid shits!

This is why it's possible to make free energy motors with them. It's not creating perpetual energy, it's fucking harnessing energy from natural sources of it!

YOU STUPID SHITS COUPLED WITH THE FOSSIL FUEL ENERGY CARTELS' SUPPRESSION ARE WHY YOU'LL CONTINUE TO SUCK IT DOWN WITH MORE LABOR WHEN AN EASIER LIFE WAS JUST AN OPEN MIND AWAY YOU STUPID STUPID CUNTS!!!!

>> No.2002430

>>2002403
Are you retarded? The potential has stored energy.

It's not FREE, it's not a PM machine.

That's like saying calculators are PM machines because they harness the power of the sun with their photovoltaic cells.

>> No.2002448

Calloway gate motherfucker, do you have it?

>> No.2002461

>>2002430
>implys I'm retarded

>goes on to make statement without giving supporting evidence, while I had provided evidence, which also went un-refuted in his post.

A retard calling others retards. Whatever makes up for all those times people were calling you that throughout your life.

>> No.2002477

>>2002461
He doesn't need to give you a reason why you are retarded, your mind would not even be able to comprehend it. Please refer to your earlier post for proof if needed.
>>2002403

>> No.2002480
File: 17 KB, 262x293, 1287458342174.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2002480

>>2002403
Wow you just went totally retarded just now.

>> No.2002489

>>2002403
0/10
sorry, no one is that dumb.

>> No.2002528

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAkBoNBwg7g&feature=related

I, for one, welcome our new Mexican overlords.

>> No.2002543

>>2002528

By the power of our almighty God this is possible.

Checkmate, atheists.


CHRISTIANS: 1
ATHEISTS: 0

>> No.2002550
File: 118 KB, 800x600, SCIENCE.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2002550

>>2002403
Conspiracy theorist much?

>> No.2002560

>>2002528
I don't see how this is different from a motor? Power in = motion out?

>> No.2002564

>>2002489
Wow, and every one of these posts completely runs away in fear of the traditional means of giving actual points to refute what I've said.

You're all going to be slaves to the rich forever, and you deserve every single bit of it.

In the meantime though, keep calling ME the retard, you clusterfuck of dipshits.

>> No.2002571

>>2002564
Go see a therapist. No proof = you're an idort.

>> No.2002572

>>2002564
The problem is that when magnetic fields cross, a solid item force is induced.
When that happens, the transfer of energy is complete.
You need a force to move 2 fields through each other to produce electricity.

That's why your design won't work.

>> No.2002579

>>2002550
Naive anti-conspiracy douchebag much?

Herp-a-derp, profit doesn't come flying out the energy cartel's ass!

>> No.2002592

>>2002403
We've known about the physics of magnetism and electromagnetism for an extremely long time. If "free energy" machines that utilized magnets were possible, there would have never been oil companies in the first place.

>> No.2002594

>>2002579
"Big energy is keeping this from us"

Conspiracy theory.
"The big guy is keeping a secret from us"

If the shoe fits...

>> No.2002601

If it worked, the inventor would be selling power instead of selling the device that makes the power.

Anyone who tries to sell you a perpetual power source is a fucking hoax, because whatever price they put on it, they could have gotten more money by selling electricity to utilities.

>> No.2002610

This makes me ashamed to be Australian.

>> No.2002611

what is this skyship motor, and what does it really do?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Q95AmIP_YA
All I can see, is that it's some sort of AC/DC converter.

>> No.2002621

>>2002611
That's basically what it is.
This guy is a charlatan and a fraud.

>> No.2002623

>>2002572
I haven't presented any design, you're confusing me with the OP or someone.

If I designed something, it'd involve maximized pole repulsion with steel shielding on one side to minimize the energy lost to position the magnets on a wheel bearing into repelling each other, with the wheel absorbing some of the loss as well, and I'd also angle the magnets to help, as well as capping them with steel to focus the magnetic flux of the poles to 3x the force.

>> No.2002635

>>2002623
>with steel shielding on one side to minimize the energy lost to position the magnets

And this is where you made it obvious you were a retard.

Ok not only are you going to loose energy through electromagnetic field induction anyways but you have to take into account the "pull" of the magnet and The laws of physics. You turn that on your little magnet will flip on around.

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

>> No.2002645
File: 16 KB, 323x182, 16window.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2002645

>>2002623
> Magnetic shielding
> Controlled magnetic lines of force