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/sci/ - Science & Math

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1966481 No.1966481 [Reply] [Original]

Today, my chemistry lecture was about the wave particle duality and quantum orbitals.

I'm having trouble imagining how this fits into the model of an atom. If electrons are wave, what exactly is doing the waving? The fabric of space and time?

Does electron simply disappear and reappear at another location? Where does it go to and where does it come from?

Also, we went through some of the math, but math does little to help picture reality.

>> No.1966483

>>1966481
what's an electron?

>> No.1966486

Quantum is not always relatable to reality. Face it.

It is a probability wave.

Sometimes, yes.

>> No.1966493

>If electrons are wave, what exactly is doing the waving

I think you minunderstand the concept of the wave. It's just saying that its physical shape is that of a wave. For example, somebody can have wavy hair; that means their hair hasa wavy shape, not that it actually has waves moving along the surface and crashing on shore (although that would look awesome)

>> No.1966495

>>1966483
Who am I?

>> No.1966492

>If electrons are wave, what exactly is doing the waving?

Electrons

>Also, we went through some of the math, but math does little to help picture reality.

wtf

>> No.1966505

>>1966492
That's some circular argument, bro.
How can electrons wave while if it's a wave?

>> No.1966512

>>1966493
retard

>> No.1966519

Actually yes the electron seems to disappear and reappear. The orbitals are a template to determine the probability of where the electron will appear. To better understand wave particle duality I suggest you read Steven Hawking's new book. Seriously he explains it better than you would get by reading a textbook. Let me grab my "Grand Design" book and I will try to paste how he explains it.

>> No.1966520

>>1966495
An electron?

Seriously, nobody knows what an electron is?

>> No.1966521

>>1966505
Well look at it this way. Light is a wave, what is doing the waving?

>> No.1966526

>>1966523
purple. all of the pictures say so

>> No.1966525

>>1966521
What is a wave?

>> No.1966524

Electrons are simply strings vibrating in 11 dimensions.

>> No.1966523

does anyone even no what color electrons are

>> No.1966528

>>1966523
no color

>> No.1966529

>>1966523
>sub atomic particle
>color

Its always light blue

>> No.1966530

>>1966526
why are they purple?

>> No.1966534

Strings

>> No.1966536

>>1966523
Depends on the material they're bound to. The electrons in my shirt are blue; the electrons in my wall are white.

>> No.1966537

>>1966530
Because people want to do that in the textbooks. So whenever I imagine things at the atomic or sub-atomic level I imagine protons and electrons as purple, and neutrons as grey, for no rational reason at all.

>> No.1966539

>>1966536
arent they all the same tho? what makes them diffrent?

>> No.1966541

>>1966536
What color are the electrons in the plasma of the welding torch I'm going to burn the stupidity out of you with are?

>> No.1966544
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1966544

>> No.1966546
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1966546

>> No.1966548

ELECTRONS NO HAVE COLOR, COLOR IS CREATED BY NERVOUS SYSTEM REACTION TO ELECTRONS BEHAVING IN WAVE PATTERN!!!

>> No.1966551

>>1966521
>Well look at it this way. Light is a wave, what is doing the waving?

The light is waving through space. (or minkowski spacetime or whatever the fuck the geometry of the universe is)

>> No.1966556

>>1966546
>>1966544
How are newton's rings relevant to this at all?

Btw they should really call them hooke's rings.

>> No.1966560

>>1966551
So light is a disturbance in space?

>> No.1966561

cockity

>> No.1966564

>>1966556
Because interfering waves are the way that wave particle duality was discovered you fucking dunce.

>> No.1966565

Stop thinking of it as a particle.

Think of it as an energy packet oscillating in 3 dimensions or something.

>> No.1966567

>>1966551
what is space

>> No.1966574

think of it this way OP:

1) electron orbitals, or 'shells', just tell you where that electron 'might be' at any given time. Remember, there's only one electron, but acts like a shell and can be expected to be anywhere in it at any time.

2) electrons are friggin tiny

3) electrons move at the speed of light IIRC

4) combine 2 and 3, with a fairly small surface area of the orbital - and you have a hell of a time figuring out when the electron is where... (this is the REALLY simple way of saying it)


alternatly, just accept that when you get to this level of tiny particles, then conventional newtonian physics of speed, location and what have you - they dont really work that well anymore

>> No.1966576

>>1966564
Where the fuck do you see photons in the OP? He is talking about electrons.

>> No.1966585

Electrons do not move at speed of light, they have a mass.

>> No.1966586

electrons adhere to the exact same wave particle duality as photons.... Why the fuck do you think they are called ELECTROmagnetic waves?

>> No.1966592

What is energy, though?

>> No.1966605

>>1966586
>electrons adhere to the exact same wave particle duality as photons.... Why the fuck do you think they are called ELECTROmagnetic waves?

... That's not why they're called EM waves.

>> No.1966624

They're all strings.

>> No.1966625

>If electrons are wave,
The probability to find an electron in a given place, if you were to look, is calculated from the state vector. The state vector in quantum mechanics isn't a wave as you imagine a wave. The waves you know are functions of position. The state vector is a function of the positions of all the particles in the universe. Just try imagining that.
>what exactly is doing the waving?
If the state vector exists rather than just being a mathematical predictive tool (and this is hotly disputed), then I guess you could say the state vector is waving. But in any case, it's not something you'd recognize from your previous studies. We could make up a name, but that wouldn't be useful.
>Does electron simply disappear and reappear at another location?
Whether electrons have a precise position, or whether they're just bumps in a wave, is disputed. However, in either case, the answer to your question is decidedly no. To get from one place to another, electrons have to go through the space in between.

>> No.1966626

>>1966592
The capacity to perform work, which is the amount of energy transferred by a force acting through a distance.

>> No.1966627

>>1966586
Oh I don't know, maybe something to do with fields.

>> No.1966639

>>1966625
I should correct this. According to some objective collapse theories, the electron can be spread over some region, and after a collapse occurs, the electron is spread over a much smaller region randomly selected from the original region. In that sense, you can have the electron disappearing and reappearing.

>> No.1966643

The electron "wave" is a probability distribution
Before measurement you're "probably" going to end up finding the electron anywhere in the distribution
Asking what is doing before measurement is asking for an answer no one has

>> No.1966653

>>1966643
Well put.

>> No.1966706

>>1966643
what is an electron