/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.1805905]

>inb4 wrong board.

Is it worth learning C#?

[Anonymous No.1805986]

if you dont mind your applications only being used on windows then yes its worth it. If you are learning it just to learn a programming language then I'd go w/ c++.

[Anonymous No.1805995]

>>x is that way

also, wrong board

also, OP is a faggot

pic related

[dolan !Uq56cE.45s No.1806018]

>>1805986
>c++
>u shuld do c++
>c/c++ is the best programming langage
>if u want to learn learn c++ cos its very good
>you can do anythinh with C++ is the best programming language
>yea u should learn c++ but its complex so its not for noob lol
>with c++ yuo can do games and programs
>C++
Fuck you.

[Anonymous No.1806034]

>>1806018
care to explain why

[Anonymous No.1806050]

No,
also >>>/prog/

[Josef !!nUf2NflSAyw No.1806046]

>>1806018
I chuckled a bit. :)

[Anonymous No.1806065]

Learn C.

[Anonymous No.1806073]

>>1806018
whats wrong with C++

[Anonymous No.1806077]

Learn c++/c/assembly

[Anonymous No.1806082]

>>1806077
>>1805905

No, learn Ruby.

[Anonymous No.1806090]

>>1806082
HaAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHaAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHaAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
aAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHaAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHaAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHa
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHaAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHaAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHaA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHaAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHaAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHaAH
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHaAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHaAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHaAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHaAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHaAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHaAHAH
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHaAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHaAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHaAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHaAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHaAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHaAHAHAH
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Anonymous No.1806118]

I wouldnt learn C unless you are gonna do microcontroller programming. Dont get me wrong C# is a good language esp. since it will allow you to easily interface your program w/ the web. I personally started w/ c++ and never regretted it.

[dolan !Uq56cE.45s No.1806200]

>>1806073
>>1806034
There's nothing "wrong" with C++. The thing is, there are a lot of other much better choices. Seems like C++ is the de facto standard among 15-year-old kids, C++ is like an incurable cancer shadowing all the gold waiting to be found (if all you want is make games, not giving a damn about mathematics, elegance or algorithms, C++ is perfect). Oh well, I'll elaborate this tomorrow or something, haven't slept very much.

Dolan, out.

[Anonymous No.1806237]

>>1806200
you're retarded and have no clue what you are talking about.kindly stfu.

[Anonymous No.1806252]

yes C# is godtier
LOIC was programmed in C#

[Anonymous No.1806258]

C# is great for .NET framework.

C++ has better object language orientation.

[dolan !Uq56cE.45s No.1806259]

>>1806237
>have no clue what you are talking about
Are you by any chance feeling a bit mad?

[Anonymous No.1806265]

C# is alright. Very similar to Java, but IMO slightly better. However, Python is a better beginners language.

[Anonymous No.1806269]

>>1806237
second

[Anonymous No.1806271]

[Anonymous No.1806275]

Lots of douchebags here saying it's better to learn one or the other.

It's better to be versatile. My company uses .net framework. We use mostly C#, but a little VB.

I have a friend who programs cable boxes. His company uses ANSI C.

Answer: learn as much as you have time for.

[Anonymous No.1806279]

>>1806271
>Java below non-C languages
ahaha I think not.

[Anonymous No.1806309]

>>1806200
> not giving a damn about mathematics, elegance or algorithms

hahaha you're fucking retarded. thanks for the good laugh

[Anonymous No.1806325]

>>1805905
Don't use any language controlled by a single interest (the CLI is as much of a "standard" as OOXML, ie. in name only).

I would say your options are:

Desktop or Web apps which are quick to write: Ruby, Python.
Desktop apps which will run quickly: C/C++ (WARNING: If you're programs are waiting for network traffic, user input, etc. then there's no point writing them in such a low-level language)
Mathematical purity: Haskell
Server software: Java (and other JVM languages like Scala and Clojure)
For fun and experience: Smalltalk (Squeak), Scheme (Racket) (and Haskell too)

You might want to learn Javascript, but it's easy as hell once you know something else so I wouldn't start on it. PHP is VERY popular, but is a pile of shit so don't learn it first. It's easy to learn once you know other languages, but if you learn it first you'll get into some very bad habits and wrong mindsets which will be hard to unlearn later.

[Anonymous No.1806344]

mathematical purity ? why not use the fucking industry standard when it comes to math...MATLAB

[Anonymous No.1806361]

Well the way I see it you have two options OP
You can either:
1.Learn C# and make some applications
2.Learn other programming languages and argue on message boards and claim how l33t you are

[Anonymous No.1806373]

LISP = GOD OF THE PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES.
ALGOL68 = BINARY REALITY ITSELF.

[Anonymous No.1806371]

>>1806344
You don't actually know what you are talking about, do you?

MATLAB is fucking slow as shit. You are never going to do really serious stuff on it.

[Anonymous No.1806376]

>>1806361
agreed, just fucking learn C#

[Anonymous No.1806377]

clearly, python is the best 1st language to learn , and unless you need to program some realy powerfull application you will use only this one. (10-20x faster to create an application in python than in C)

[Anonymous No.1806389]

>>1806373
Fuck it. Why not go all the way: Extended Backus–Naur Form (EBNF) or VW-Grammars: http://homepages.cwi.nl/~steven/vw.html

Or "How to enumerate all possible languages and meet the halting problem."

[Anonymous No.1806391]

>>1806371
http://www.mathworks.com/products/parallel-computing/
whats that about matlab not being a good choice? Yea go fuck yourself

[Anonymous No.1806395]

itzamaeth

[Anonymous No.1806398]

>>1805905
OP, how about this mind-blowing shit: http://cogprints.org/2076/
We show a representation of Quantum Computers defines Quantum Turing Machines with associated Quantum Grammars. We then create examples of Quantum Grammars. Lastly we develop an algebraic approach to high level Quantum Languages using Quantum Assembly language and Quantum C language as examples.

[Anonymous No.1806406]

>>1806344
MATLAB sucks dicks. My very first point was to never get caught by vendor lock in. Douche.

LISP is God. However, Scheme is more manageable.

Also, it takes some pretty impressive mental gymnastics to turn a thread full of responses shitting on C# and turn it into a recommendation (ie. "use it, or else you'll end up being indecisive!").

Also this http://whatupdave.tumblr.com/post/1170718843/leaving-net

[Anonymous No.1806407]

>>1806391
Yay, let's abuse the fact that computers have loads of processing power by using an inferior interpreted language instead of actually compiling crap! Look, it even does parallel computing! Buy our useless expensive shit, dude! You NEED it!

[Anonymous No.1806417]

>>1805905
learn the brainfuck , its easy as hell.

[Anonymous No.1806416]

>>1806391
Enjoy your shitty closed source pay-for-use proprietary language.

LISP and J are still light years ahead of MatLab.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J_(programming_language)

[Anonymous No.1806441]

>>1806417

Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook! Ook? Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook! Ook! Ook? Ook! Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook! Ook. Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook. Ook! Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook! Ook. Ook! Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook! Ook. Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook! Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook! Ook. Ook. Ook? Ook! Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook! Ook. Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook. Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook. Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook. Ook! Ook. Ook. Ook? Ook! Ook.

do you know the ook ? here is a hello world

[Anonymous No.1806447]

The distinction between compilation and interpretation is completely artificial. Just like the distinction between static and dynamic typing. You can interpret C and you can compile Python. Big deal. Computers don't give a shit. The real audience for all non-machine-code languages is people, since we're the ones who have to write, debug and understand the code. For this, higher level languages are better. If, however, an implementation turns out to have some bottlenecks which are somehow caused by the language choice, then use an FFI for the bottlenecks.

PS: MATLAB is the misused apostrophe of human-computer communication.

[Anonymous No.1806451]

>>1806416
Theres a reason why millions of engineers use it...just sayn

[Anonymous No.1806453]

It's worth learning, but you should DEFINITELY start with C/C++. It's better for first time programmers, because you have a higher level of control, and can clearly see how everything works.

[Anonymous No.1806456]

Well lets see the advantages of C#:
-Its just as fast as C++
-Its a hell of a lot easier (especially for web apps since you don't have to deal with winsocks and all that crap)
-It has garbage collection
-the editor comes with a gui editor(Somethings that's a HUGE pain in the ass in C++)
-You can add libraries
-other goodies
disatvantages:
-You have to download the .net framework
-Its not crossplatform( Oh noes, how will I rewrite my thousands lines of code to fit my apple or linux platforms then)

[Anonymous No.1806461]

>>1806447
please go look up the differences between compiled and interpreted languages then say it is artificial

[Anonymous No.1806464]

>>1806451
Yeah, it's because they are morons who don't know there are loads of free alternatives to do whatever they are doing, and they don't actually need to do any serious computation, anyway.

[Anonymous No.1806475]

>>1806456
>Well lets see the advantages of C#:
>-Its just as fast as C++

rofl

[Anonymous No.1806481]

>>1806453
I've been programming in C++ for over 5 years now.
I still consider it to be a superb, close to the meat language.

Regardless of that, however, programming is just applied logic and shit, the extra control of C++ also comes with extra housekeeping baggage, which, unless you are interested in memory allocation and garbage collection, irrelevant in the context of actually programming, since you do the housekeeping with the basic syntax anyway.

I'd say if you're a beginner, use a higher level language that does shit for you, then, as your skill refines and your projects become more ambitious, go for the finer grain.

Also, C++ is not a panacea, even if you're a C++ buff, you still want to have python or java knowledge.

Objective c however, that one can suck a turd.
Fuck you macintosh.

[Anonymous No.1806487]

This might be a stupid question, but are there C# compilers for OS X or Linux?

[Anonymous No.1806503]

>>1806464

implying matlab isn't free, imply free alternatives have powerful libraries of functions to do image processing or quantitative analysis.

[Anonymous No.1806508]

ok ok ok ill concede defeat on the matlab thing since I havent looked into the other stuff but matlab does have some pretty fucking powerful toolboxes

[Anonymous No.1806512]

>>1806475
It is

[Anonymous No.1806514]

>>1806475
Yeah, it's definitely not faster in the general case.

This is a concept I heard from a guest lecturer in one of my classes: Basically, every language contains a balance between productivity, performance, and generality. One of these attributes needs to be sacrificed; you can't have all three. For example, C++ has high performance and generality (it can be used for almost anything), but low productivity (it takes a while to get things done). SQL has high performance and productivity, but it is very specific (only applicable to databases). C# is more productive than C++, but as a result it has lower performance. Basically, it's all about choosing the right tool for the job.

I say you should start with C/C++, and that's what my school teaches. Once you learn C++, C# is a walk in the park. If you start with C#, you'll be very confused when you start dealing with pointers, which is a pretty essential skill to have.

[Anonymous No.1806538]

>>1806514
Whether pointers are essential or not depends on what you're doing. If you're defining "programming" as "programming in C/C++" then yes, they're essential. If OP just wants to have a powerful calculator, make a simple Web service, etc. then there's actually no need for pointers.

Also, for C# on Mac/Linux/Windows/etc. look up Mono. Problem is, however good Mono is/gets, it will always be playing catchup to .Net and cannot go its own way on anything other than libraries.

[Anonymous No.1806545]

>>1806512
Oh you were serious ? let me laugh even harder HAHA!

[Anonymous No.1806555]

If you want to become a web programmer, you should learn one (or more) of these languages:

PHP
Java
C#
Actionscript/Flash

Otherwise you will be unemployed.

[Anonymous No.1806567]

>>1806555
should have told him to learn perl and cobol

[Anonymous No.1806580]

it is worth it if you want to get a job programming with c#.
http://java.dzone.com/articles/traditional-programming?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&amp
;utm_campaign=Feed:+javalobby/frontpage+(Javalobby+/+Java+Zone)

[Anonymous No.1806581]

>>1806567

When I entered college (1999) they forced all of us to learn COBOL because they were super-sure that we'd all have to update a fuckload of COBOL programs in the next decade.

So far I haven't seen a single one, and learning that language scarred me for life.

[Anonymous No.1806587]

>>1806545
>>1806514
If there's a difference in performance its so minimal that its laughable
Remember C# is compiled twice

[Anonymous No.1806613]

>>1806555
Started work a few weeks ago, working on a Web app written in PHP using an SQL database. Before my first day I had never written a line of PHP, SQL or Javascript. I'd hand-written a few Web pages, and I've been programming for years in Java, Python, C and C++, but I simply had no desire to learn PHP, Javascript or SQL. They're not particularly interesting languages (maybe SQL is if you're into databases, but I'm not). I got hired based on my programming experience, knowledge and skills. I picked up PHP straight away ("put a $ before variables, but not functions, and everything else is C syntax with call-by-value") and when I need to write SQL I've got Google handy.

tl;dr Learn what you find interesting and it will give you the motivation to get really good at it. Then you can apply those skills to the boring shit that employers want.

[Anonymous No.1806633]

C++ programmer: Hey look at this I made a game
C# programmer: Orly let me see
C++ programmer: Its a text based game just like zork
C# programmer:Oh how do you play?
C++ programmer:Oh you have to type one of the preselcted commands, look type forward
C# programmer:Ok
>You find yourself in a dungeon
C++ programmer: Isn't it awesome? Teeheehee
C# programmer:Yeah its kind of cool... want to see mine?
C++ programmer: uh sure, what is it?
C# programmer:Oh its nothing, its just a mario clone. Only that instead of jumping you use a shotgun
C++ programmer: Your lips are stained with Bill Gates cum you Microsoft whore! You wish you were l33t like me!
C#: Okaaay...

[Anonymous No.1806648]

>>1806633
What was HL2 programmed in again? C++ bitch

[Anonymous No.1806665]

>>1806648
Yeah never mind the team of programmers working for years at a time to get it done

[Anonymous No.1806699]

>>1806633
I'm one of the people who was talking about the benefits of C++ over C#.

Guess what? I'm currently making a game using C#.

It's all about choosing the right tool for the job, like I said. C# is good for some things, but C++ is better for other things. It will always be that way: no language is "better" than any other language.

[Anonymous No.1806702]

>>1806633
Implying that C# is the only high level, Object Oriented language, when it's not even a particularly good one. It's just a bandwagon, which only exists because Microsoft aren't allowed to use Java (although C# is a little better than Java (which isn't exactly hard), but only because they could learn from Java's mistakes).

[Anonymous No.1806704]

>>1806633
> implying a console based game is easier than a mario clone
>implying a mario clone is anything but a really simple program created in 4hours by a complete begginer with 2 days of experience in high level language. (like , let's say python)

[Anonymous No.1806761]

>>1806587
The difference is so minimal I can graph it's complexity logarithmically and it still comes out as an intractable language.

Real men use exactly what they need. Assembly, Regex, and RDFa for finite-state programming. LISP for Context-free and Context-Sensitive programming. Three-level VW grammars like Algol68 with restrictions for Turing-Complete programming.

Seriously, if you don't know the theory, you're a coder at best, script kiddie at worst.

[Anonymous No.1807251]

>>1806761
you are fucking retarded, C++ is faster then c#. Interpreted languages are always going to be slower then compiled programs
/thread

[Anonymous No.1807426]

[Anonymous No.1808953]

>>1807251
lol. What's the complexity of the halting problem? Which language is faster when computing it?

Anyway, I actually was saying C# is notably slower for the same reason Java is. Both of them have a greater number of steps involved in their computation.

Assembly is ultimate when it comes to speed though.

[­ No.1808995]

>>1805905
Related question:
If there is a programming language called C#, is there also a programming language called Cb?

[Anonymous No.1810969]

>>1807426
>Perl

No, Perl is the shitbox car that only runs right when the owner drives it.

[Anonymous No.1810975]

>>1808995

Not as far as I know. I'm betting if you tried, Microsoft would sue you for every penny you're worth.

[Anonymous No.1810979]

>>1808953
>halting problem
>compute
>>1807426
Pretty accurate.

[Anonymous No.1810984]

>>1806018
Wow, I didn't think it was possible to have a dolan post I actually agreed with on some basic level, but here we are.

[Anonymous No.1811045]

Learn c++ then Ruby.

[Anonymous No.1811102]

>>1811045
>Ruby

[Anonymous No.1811137]

>>1806481
>Objective c however, that one can suck a turd. Fuck you macintosh
This. Objective C is the worst troll of all time, 10 years from now steve jobs is gonna go on stage and say "lol i troll u" "i made you use the worst language of all time that makes no sense in any way what so ever and you did it just to make money lololololol"

also this thread is a fucking shitstorm

[Anonymous No.1811150]

>>1811137
Objective-C is less of a troll than C++.

It's sad that C++ is so shitty, everyone feels the need to reinvent it, but because they're C++ programmers, they fail just as badly as their original language choice.

Meanwhile, in lisp-land...

[Anonymous No.1811152]

>>1811137

I've always said Apple is as bad as Microsoft when it comes to this shit.

>Yea, we COULD let you use a popular language, but instead we're going to force you to use OUR language that nobody would use if we didn't force them to.

[Anonymous No.1811166]

Look kid it's easy. Don't listen to most of the fags here who think they can program. But what they are most probaly doing are hacking away shit that compiles but is shit code anyway.

Programming is more then learning a language. Sure it's a start, but to become a really GOOD programmer you need to learn about the things that come with programming. Like concurrency, databases, recursion and all that.

Imo Java is a really good language to get your grips. It's quite easy to learn, big, lot's of library's you can use and an awesome IDE called Eclipse.

tl:dr: If you can already program, sure why not. If not:Java imo.

[dolan !Uq56cE.45s No.1811168]

Disagree what I said earlier, let OP learn C++ or Java. That'll make one more shitty programmer in the bucket.

Chugga-chugga choo-choo, the train goes chugging home!

[Anonymous No.1811231]

I like telling people to learn C/C++ because if they're willing to continue programming after attempting to learn those, they're probably serious about programming.

There's way too many people out there who think that programming is really easy and really profitable so they go out and "learn" something like PHP and then go I AM TEH PROGRAMMER, LET ME SET UP YOUR WORDPRESS BLOG.

[dolan !Uq56cE.45s No.1811290]

>>1811231
>serious about programming
From what I've seen in this thread, most of them are 15-year-old kids who dream of sucking corporate dick while making video games. They're the pricks that bring shame upon computer science.

[Anonymous No.1811308]

thread{
PhD on CS and CE.
Start by learning C++.
}

[Anonymous No.1811315]

ITT: We're all butthurt over how people who code C# and Java actually make money.

[Anonymous No.1811322]

>>1811166
>he still uses an IDE
but yes, start with something simple like Java. Learn the OOP concepts, then go back and learn C and assembly.

The concepts in Java are pretty standard for most higher level languages today, but definitely learn C so you can understand how the machine works, and how to actually manage memory. That way, you'll be light years ahead of the shits on here that think they can program because they can use a premade library.

[Anonymous No.1811327]

>>1811315
You should be butthurt that people who use Java make money. Java is the cancer.

[Anonymous No.1811343]

>>1811290

I always have to laugh when people here dream about programming video games for a living. I've know a lot of people who are in or were in the industry and all I hear is soul crushing stories about 100 hour weeks that end up in them getting laid off because the game didn't sell well.

Bonus LOLs when they think that anyone at the game company wants to hear design ideas from the programming team.

[Anonymous No.1811354]

[Anonymous No.1811358]

Google use C++, just sayin'

[Anonymous No.1811432]

>>1811358

Google also uses a ton of Python

[Anonymous No.1811585]

>>1811343
You could probably blame this on C++, and I would, but unfortunately there's little choice on that front without making your own language. Which, incidentally, is a good idea overall, though some of the tradeoffs can be harsh.

Neither academia nor industry has managed to come up with a decent-to-use yet well-performing language. I've seen a few attempts but most are pretty shitty. Memory management is the killer, always. Garbage collection, in the limit, performs better than manual memory management... if you have something like 2 to 7 times more memory than you need. Derp. Plumbing memory management code all through your software is ridiculous in the extreme, but in gaming you're not going to have 2 to 7 times as much memory as you need so what alternative is there?

[Anonymous No.1811603]

>>1811432
Google also whipped up their own language.

[Anonymous No.1811699]

>>1811290
says the college freshman who. Haveny we alrdy established youre full of shit alrdy ?

[Anonymous No.1811726]

>>1811699

Is he seriously a college freshman?