I have a question for you, atheists if God and the eternal soul of man don't exist, then what is the difference between the life of a human and say, a mosquito or a pig? on what basis do you decide one is worth more than the other?

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Anonymous Mon Sep 20 22:45:34 2010 No.1781516 [Reply] [Original]

I have a question for you, atheists

if God and the eternal soul of man don't exist, then what is the difference between the life of a human and say, a mosquito or a pig? on what basis do you decide one is worth more than the other?

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 20 22:46:34 2010 No.1781522 Complexity. Intelligence is an emergent phenomena.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 20 22:46:34 2010 No.1781521 >on what basis do you decide one is worth more than the other? there isn't a basis. troll.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 20 22:47:34 2010 No.1781527 Its all quite arbitrary really.....

>>	Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. Mon Sep 20 22:47:34 2010 No.1781524 File: 18 KB, 328x310, 1262624690521.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] HUMAN BIG HUMAN STRONG

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 20 22:50:34 2010 No.1781547 >>1781522 >>1781522 By that argument societies have greater moral value than an individual, or what about nebula's galaxies or stars? Many things are incredibly complex.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 20 22:50:34 2010 No.1781544 >>1781524 so if I'm bigger and stronger than you, I can do whatever i like to you? if law enforcement intervenes, on what basis do they decide what I'm doing is wrong?

Anonymous Mon Sep 20 22:54:34 2010 No.1781569

You know OP, you're an idiot. Put 1 minute of thinking into it and you should understand.

There is no difference between human life and a mosquito, however, due to our egoism and our self awareness, we think there is. We think or, should I rather say, "we think we know" that a mosquito doesn't understand that it's won a billon lotteries, a mosquito probably doesn't cherish life.

Yes, OP, the answer is:
You believe you're special.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 20 22:59:34 2010 No.1781588 >>1781569 so those who are more fortunate are worth more? darn I love your reasoning

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 20 23:00:34 2010 No.1781593 >>1781569 also, you seem to imply that those who can't understand life (ie babies, those in comas, the senile, mentally handicapped, etc) don't deserve it

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 20 23:01:34 2010 No.1781596 inb4 200 replies

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 20 23:02:34 2010 No.1781597 >>1781593 >inb4 nazis

Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. Mon Sep 20 23:03:34 2010 No.1781602

>>1781544
By HUMAN STRONG I meant we can use our intellect to build amazing things to basically bully everything else. It's a sad truth. We value human life on the basis of how similar and complex it is compared to other animals. Not to say other animals don't have human-like traits, but yeah.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 20 23:03:34 2010 No.1781605 If God exists, on what basis does he decide which is worth more? Are humans valuable because they are valued by god, or are we valued by god because we are valuable?

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 20 23:04:34 2010 No.1781610 >>1781605 Fuck man, don't make the theist think!

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 20 23:04:34 2010 No.1781613 I have a question for you, theist. What does this have to do with whether god exists or not? Morality and free will are illusions. Life is meaningless. Deal with it, you self-deluding, intellectually suicidal, worthless trash.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 20 23:05:34 2010 No.1781617 >>1781605 because He made us in His image.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 20 23:06:34 2010 No.1781621 >>1781613 if God exists, then our choices have an eternal impact. If not, then nothing we do matters ultimately.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 20 23:07:34 2010 No.1781623 >>1781617 So we're valuable to God because we look like him? Hey, it's just like human to human! Then I'll use the same solution to OP's question, because a man looks like another man they can relate. End.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 20 23:07:34 2010 No.1781624 >>1781621 True. But none of this proves that gods do or do not exist. The fact is you have no evidence or argument for god, otherwise you would have made one by now.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 20 23:07:34 2010 No.1781625 >>1781516 Here is a thought, ever think maybe you're buying into a whole load of shit when you believe everything you're told? You're right. Stop fucking following fanatics of any sort.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 20 23:07:34 2010 No.1781627 We decide humans are worth more because we're humans. Got a problem with that?

Anonymous Mon Sep 20 23:08:34 2010 No.1781632

>>1781516

There is no difference. The choice is made by deciding to be a person who values life or to be somebody who doesn't. The universe has neither meaning nor non-meaning. It just is. We, humans, are in the strange position of being deciders and providers of meaning.

Anonymous Mon Sep 20 23:08:34 2010 No.1781630

>>1781516

simple egoism, which is not divorced from biology. I'm a human. I want humans to to do their thing and multiply. Because I'm human, humans are the most important. It plays into the whole banal game of biology, but that's fine. Wisdom is to determine that there is no deeper "why" worth speaking of; those who do are, in a qualified sense, frauds.

There's nothing wrong or simplistic with the view I've given above. I'll warrant that it's a perfectly intellectually honest view.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 20 23:09:34 2010 No.1781633 What serious christian would be on 4chan? This must be a troll

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 20 23:09:34 2010 No.1781634 >>1781617 >>1781617 You didn't answer my question: >Are humans valuable because they are valued by god, or are we valued by god because we are valuable? Which is it?

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 20 23:10:34 2010 No.1781644 >>1781634 the question is meaningless, you're playing with semantics.

Anonymous Mon Sep 20 23:11:34 2010 No.1781648
File: 42 KB, 500x346, Red ant.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>1781627
I am an ant, and I think your philosophy sucks, we're all female workers and only breed males for the purpose of mating. We go to war with different colors of the same species and different species as well. We tend to blur the line sometimes and think, we're "all" ants, but you know when your friend looks like an ant, but eats you, hes really a spider. Life sucks yo. Its all confusing.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 20 23:11:34 2010 No.1781650 >still no argument presented for the existence of a god Worthless thread. OP is a troll or an idiot

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 20 23:12:34 2010 No.1781660 >>1781650 It is always, "an idiot", no mistake. The world is full of infants in adult bodies.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 20 23:14:34 2010 No.1781676 >>1781660 >>1781650 >can think of no rebuttal >calls OP a troll

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 20 23:15:34 2010 No.1781680 >>1781660 >OP asks for explanation of theory of godless system. >Atheist instead asks for proof of God >Who's the idiot? >That's right, you are

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 20 23:16:34 2010 No.1781686 >>1781680 Hmm a godless system, don't need to present what is all around in plentiful information. You're a troll.

Anonymous Mon Sep 20 23:16:34 2010 No.1781684

>>1781644
How am I playing with semantics? Are we just valuable independently of someone valuing us (in which God's existence is an irrelevant question) or do we require a person to value us for us to have value? Are you complaining that atheism can only have the latter kind of value? How is theism any different with God valuing us? Answer the damn question.

Anonymous Mon Sep 20 23:24:34 2010 No.1781722
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THE ONLY THING THAT SEPERATES US FROM ANY OTHER LIVING THING IS OUR CONSCIENCENESS!

YOU ARE ALL STUPID AND INSECURE IF YOU'RE GOING TO BELIEVE IN THE BIGGEST LIE EVER! GOD IS NOT REAL IT'S FOR THOSE WHO ARE TOO INSECURE AND NEED TO THINK THAT THEY AREN'T WORTHLESS, LIKE YOU THINK A MOSQUITO IS!

YOU ARE JUST AS WORTHLESS BUT MORE INSECURE. A MOSQUITO ISN'T AS IGNORANT AS ALL OF YOU INSECURE IMAGINARY FRIEND LOVING FAGS!

I HATE YOU ALL!

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 20 23:25:34 2010 No.1781732 >>1781722 >>implying you're conscious and whole & not a host of many living organisms that make up a body.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 20 23:27:34 2010 No.1781744 File: 3 KB, 126x126, 1277351168546.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1781732 You are an ignorant fag and you can't even spell something I just typed above you! GTFO!

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 20 23:29:34 2010 No.1781753 File: 53 KB, 426x600, 1283914936396.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 20 23:29:34 2010 No.1781754 >>1781593 >implying anything has any value at all Those damn chemical cocktails, they can make anything feel so real.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 20 23:30:34 2010 No.1781761 File: 74 KB, 1024x768, 1283032405808.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 20 23:31:34 2010 No.1781770 >>1781686 >types incomprehensible sentence >calls me a troll

>>	Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. Mon Sep 20 23:31:34 2010 No.1781771 >>1781722 Are you that angry climate change skeptic man?

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 20 23:33:34 2010 No.1781776 >>1781744 What is wrong with you man?

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 20 23:34:34 2010 No.1781781 File: 33 KB, 469x428, problem.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] when you think about it, god's probably the biggest troll ever, that is to say if he exists or not?

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 20 23:38:34 2010 No.1781803 File: 164 KB, 544x460, 1271390034521.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1781781 Yahweh the biggest troll in 2000+ years, born from pagan religions, into a fuller form of trollism. D=

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 20 23:40:34 2010 No.1781807 File: 1.21 MB, 1680x1050, 1283032473550.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1781781 That imaginary person doesn't exist! WTF！

Anonymous Mon Sep 20 23:44:34 2010 No.1781835

you don't need god and the soul to define anything. it's a meaningless definition.

Its about how much you understand about the environment, and how much you can change the environment. If humans can control the environment more than any other animal then we have primary control over the rest of the animals on our planet, but we also have a semi democratic desicion making process, we know that if we harm the environment too much then we will probably die out, or at least struggle more for survival. evolutionarily speaking it is hard to define anything as superior inferior without specifying strict limits and situations which does not speak for an overall superiority of that species, but we do have the highest cognative ability of any species giving us the most understanding of the planet and we have more control then any other species (relatively speaking anyway, im not saying that we are not dependant on other species)

this explains why we are superior without the need for a soul, or god

Anonymous Tue Sep 21 01:02:34 2010 No.1782142

I think OP is a self doubting atheist.
Some say there is no free will so the outcome
of this debate is predecided (everyone loses).
but for the sake of arguement, there is god
and he some how made us.
He made a decision however questionable
it might have been. He was the first to choose
then lets call it power the power of choice
we think he made us in his image, but instead
of looking like god prehaps he gave us the power
of choice, then each of us have the power or
image of god no matter what religion.

tl;dr: god has choice, we have choice, so we are all god

But I agree with a statement said earlier that its
biology
We are all born omnivores and scientific evidence
backs the claim we need meat
meat specific protiens, our canines, and ect.
Unless you're a cannibal we need to think less
of animals and the enemy (if you are a cannibal)
in order to survive and continue the tribe you
belong to, which has expanded to whole
countries and ideally the entire human race.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 21 01:10:34 2010 No.1782174 if god is real he will kill me before my next post

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 21 01:11:34 2010 No.1782176 >>1781516 Holy fuck you are stupid... so in your mind the only thing distinguishing a human beings from a pig is some imaginary construct that can't be observed and has no effect in the real world?

>>	#godless None !eGW.QlwOOY Tue Sep 21 01:11:34 2010 No.1782177 godless guess god isn't real. too bad.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 21 01:12:34 2010 No.1782181 >>1782177 I am butthurt.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 21 01:14:34 2010 No.1782187 >>1781835 Doesn't work. We don't influence the environment a billionth as much as bacteria do. Or fungus. We really have comparatively little influence.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 21 01:16:34 2010 No.1782195 >>1782187 True enough that most of the biosphere is underground, by far. Still the sentiment is that we shouldn't belittle ourselves.

Anonymous Tue Sep 21 01:40:34 2010 No.1782287

>>1782187

I was waiting for that and it is a very good point, as I realised I didnt handle that situation, but my point wasn't just about how much we influence our environment, it included how much we know and understand about our environment no it does not, maybe control was a bad word, but influence is a better word, we have a large influence on the environment compared to all other species of animal, and we are conscious about it where bacteria/fungi are not, or not in the cognitive way we are.

and thankyou for bringing up a great point

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 21 01:43:34 2010 No.1782304 grrr the "no it does not" in line three was meant to be edited out

>>	Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. Tue Sep 21 01:43:34 2010 No.1782305 File: 422 KB, 650x1992, 1284980278472.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 21 01:45:34 2010 No.1782312 >>1782305 I wish there was more art like this.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 21 01:48:34 2010 No.1782324 >>1782312 There's a ton on his deviantart.

>>	Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. Tue Sep 21 01:49:34 2010 No.1782329 File: 249 KB, 600x1084, 1284979987009.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1782312

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 21 01:54:34 2010 No.1782357 >>1782329 Poor guy. Lost his arms.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 21 01:57:34 2010 No.1782367 File: 79 KB, 800x626, 1268410113623.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 21 02:00:34 2010 No.1782383 >>1782357 I almost feel bad for him.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 21 02:01:34 2010 No.1782386 ON THE OFF CHANCE THAT OP IS NOT A TROLL I decide so because humans are the same species as me.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 21 02:01:34 2010 No.1782389 File: 94 KB, 500x300, 1283443215092.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 21 02:04:34 2010 No.1782404 File: 42 KB, 800x600, 1268409423395.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Tue Sep 21 02:11:34 2010 No.1782427

>>1781516

Iffen it ain't been said before,

the human being has the possibility for much more than the pig being. Beyond "nature decides itself much better than human beings OK SO human beings are a part of nature OK SO humans suck they destroy everything OK SO OK SO OK SO OK SO," human beings, at this juncture in history, have a much greater ability for, say, lobbying for the Clean Air Act, or China-ing their population levels, or recycling metal and glass, or controlling levels of populations so that the hunted is not completely destroyed thus destroying the hunter. If we (humans) are to exist at all, then _we_ have the best chance of enabling that existence.

Pigs can't make arguments for selflessness. True, humans are largely selfISH, but so are pigs. Some rare humans try to fight it, and not illogically so.

OP only has a legitimate topic because human beings (apparently, they're only born in the US now) finally got what they want, and they're making poor decisions.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 21 02:12:34 2010 No.1782431 >>1781569 >>1781569 100 points >>1782404 1000 points, brought a smile on my face :D

Anonymous Tue Sep 21 02:18:34 2010 No.1782448

>>1781516
in a normal, everyday situation:
man > pig > skeeter

in a lonely island situation where I might end up starving:
pig (protect my food) > man > skeeter

skeeter always loses cause it's a fucking pest to me.
pig is useful, but really only is a source of food, or maybe currency.
man is, in essence, always useful, unless I really need something to eat, then I'd rather go for the pig than the man.

don't you theists have any kind of common sense?

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 21 02:22:34 2010 No.1782463 File: 21 KB, 400x300, c1nPUU1qDBKVeH9.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1782448 What? A... a pest?

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 21 02:25:34 2010 No.1782481 File: 142 KB, 800x600, 1268410531714.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 21 02:29:34 2010 No.1782495 couldn't have said it better

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 21 02:37:34 2010 No.1782516 >>1782329 >>1782305 The artist is Humon on DA. Almost exclusively draws fags and female tentacle monsters that may as well also be fags because they have no vag and have sex with humans by stuffing them with tentacles.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 21 02:39:34 2010 No.1782523 >>1782516 thats hot

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 21 02:48:34 2010 No.1782542 >>1782523 I know, right? Too bad those drawings stopped.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 21 02:53:34 2010 No.1782553 Sapience and sentience.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 21 02:57:34 2010 No.1782565 >>1781516 I guess you haven't heard of the animal cruelty laws.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 21 02:58:34 2010 No.1782566 0/10 try harder

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 21 03:02:34 2010 No.1782577 >>1782565 an interesting thing is the octopus is the only invertabrate covered under the british animal creaulty law that states that an animal operated on must be given an anesthetic as it is considered to have a higher level of intelligence

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 21 03:08:04 2010 No.1782588 NO ONE IS EVER GONNA CHANGE THERE MINDS HERE SO BOTH ATHEISTS AND THEIST SHOULD FUCK OFF OR STFU.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 21 03:10:34 2010 No.1782597 File: 72 KB, 750x600, motivator9e06a5bc189152c7998cf6ba3e94cb7d5c8ec136.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] NO ONE IS EVER GONNA CHANGE THERE MINDS HERE SO BOTH ATHEISTS AND THEIST SHOULD FUCK OFF OR STFU

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 21 03:23:34 2010 No.1782623 How can you Jesus if ni believe theory is just geuss was?

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 21 03:32:34 2010 No.1782634 >>1782597 >>1782623 well for a short while there was some descent content in this post....

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 21 03:34:34 2010 No.1782638 File: 39 KB, 600x470, 246c3a1c97.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] не ебите себе и людям мозг просто, идите на хуй

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