/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.1745892]

There are 50 trillion cells in the human body. If you extracted all the information from the DNA it would fill only 2 tablespoons.

If the DNA was stretched out it would reach from the earth to the moon and back 5 million times.

If you filled a book with all the information contained in DNA you would have enough to fill the Grand Canyon 40 times.

The chance of creating one DNA molecule by CHANCE is 1 x 10119,000

In other words - IMPOSSIBLE!

[Anonymous No.1745901]

>> extracted all the information from the DNA it would fill only 2 tablespoons.

Liquid information!

[Anonymous No.1745902]

>If you filled a book with all the information contained in DNA you would have enough to fill the Grand Canyon 40 times.

I don't belive that.

[Anonymous No.1745908]

>>1745892
Trolls gonna troll.

[Anonymous No.1745914]

>If you filled a book with all the information contained in DNA you would have enough to fill the Grand Canyon 40 times.

use a smaller font size

[Anonymous No.1745917]

>> The chance of creating one DNA molecule by CHANCE is 1 x 10119,000

>> DNA molecule

lolololololol

[Anonymous No.1745924]

Yeah yeah, we've heard this a thousand times here (possibly literally a thousand times), and it still doesn't mean it has had to be designed.

[Anonymous No.1745933]

>>1745917
DNA IS a molecule.

[Anonymous No.1745939]

>The chance of creating one DNA molecule by CHANCE is 1 x 10119,000
>In other words - IMPOSSIBLE!

If it's above 0, it's not impossible. Actually one in around 10 million is very fucking likely with the activity and time scales typically associated with its formation.

[Anonymous No.1745940]

>>1745933

Incorrect.

It's a series of chemically bonded seperate molecules.

[Anonymous No.1745948]

>>1745939

He meant 1x10^119000

Not 1000000

[Anonymous No.1745955]

>>1745939
>>1745939


I think he meant

1x10^(119,000)

why else would he put the comma after 5 digits


also DNA and RNA never formed by chance.


the implications of "chance" imply that there are no thermodynamic or chemical factors in place.


the reality of the situation is that the thermodynamics and kinetics can mean that a reaction is LIKELY TO HAPPEN by an order of 10^10 or 10^12

[Anonymous No.1745958]

>>1745940

In other words, a polymer; a molecule.

>http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/polymer
>(chemistry) A long or larger molecule consisting of a chain or network of many repeating units, formed by chemically bonding together many identical or similar small molecules called monomers. A polymer is formed by polymerization, the joining of many monomer molecules.

[Anonymous No.1745962]

>>1745940


>chemically bonded

>separate molecules


laughinggirls.jp

[Anonymous No.1745970]

>>1745940
>babbys first chemistry

>>1745948
>>1745955

That would make him an idiot. Amino acids self-assemble if the constituent chemicals even come close to each other.

[Anonymous No.1745976]

didn't they demonstrate in lab that the formation of biomolecules is actually favorable and happens quite quickly?

[Anonymous No.1745979]

>>1745958
>>1745958


he means a DNA helix is composed of 2 hydrogen bonded, but non covalently bonded, separate but complementary chains of ribonucleic acids.


it is 2 molecules.
Captcha:

afratore ΔG°

(I kid you not)

[Anonymous No.1745982]

>>1745892
>by CHANCE

Target spotted. Firing the sage missiles.

[Anonymous No.1745988]

>>1745955
>thermodynamic

except the laws of thermodynamics dictate that order DECREASES over time. so, no.

[Anonymous No.1745992]

>>1745976

Yes. This shit is everywhere, even on asteroids and other planets. They just lack the proper environment (temp, energy, solvents) to progress any further.

[Anonymous No.1745993]

>>1745976
an experiment that has since been refuted, yes.

[Anonymous No.1745998]

>>1745892
Well, I'm no scientist (just kidding, I am), but....

>If you extracted all the information from the DNA it would fill only 2 tablespoons.

>If you filled a book with all the information contained in DNA you would have enough to fill the Grand Canyon 40 times.

these statements are pretty incompatible.

[Anonymous No.1746002]

I'm an evolutionist and I agree. everything evolved by chance and the Lord was never involved because he doesn't exist.

[Anonymous No.1746014]

>>1745998
>is unaware that molecules are really really small

darwinist detected

[Anonymous No.1746031]

>>1745993

If by refuted you mean repeated all over the world, then sure.
Precursor chemicals + energy = brown biomolecule goop. It's pretty cool actually.

[Anonymous No.1746036]

>>1745988
>>1745988

"the laws of thermodynamics" do not state this.


the 2nd law of thermodynamics states that entropy cannot decrease in any system.


every additional nucleobase added to a DNA chain changes the system entropy minimally, and the change in free energy is still negative.

only when you compare a collection of 10^23 individual nucleobases, and a single chain of DNA can the naive assumptions about entropy lead you to believe that spontaneous formation is impossible.


the simplified system

all separate, all-1 separate, all-2 separate, all-3 separate, .... n connected will NOT occupy the "ground state" unless temperature = 0

exceptionally basic statistical mechanics.

[Anonymous No.1746041]

All living creatures increase the entropy of their environment in order to maintain their own ordered forms.

Do your part to save the universe, kill yourself today!

[Anonymous No.1746053]

>>1746041


life describes a system that maintains itself in a steady state of low entropy by the continuous input of energy (obviously the net mass input/output is zero)

[Anonymous No.1746062]

>>1746014
"all the information", btard.

>all the information

wtf does that mean? are we writing books of "dna information" in plain english? obviously all the information in DNA can be written IN THE EXACT SAME SIZE AS THE GODDAM DNA. depends what "language" we use!

[Anonymous No.1746071]

>>1746053

And in order to obtain that input of energy you must increase the entropy of the universe as a whole.

[Anonymous No.1746079]

believe that happen by "chance" is the problem..

your was debunked so many times that i wont even bother.

[Anonymous No.1746089]

>>1746071
that's Prigogine..

[Anonymous No.1746094]

>>1746071
we dont know if the universe is a closed or open system..
Although the word "universe" imply that is closed..

[Anonymous No.1746113]

>>1746071
yes

cry me a river

[Anonymous No.1746231]

if you had a mole of DNA it would weigh more than every human on earth combined

[Anonymous No.1746238]

He thinks evolution happens "By Chance".

Mutations are random; natural selection is not.

[Anonymous No.1746240]

>>1746231

bullshit

[Anonymous No.1746251]

>>1745998

>extracted all possible information (aka all possible strands of DNA) from DNA
>transcribed that sort of information into something non-chemical and readable

[Anonymous No.1746276]

>>1746240
Depends on how long the strand of DNA was.

[Anonymous No.1746279]

>>1746240
do you know the molar mass of a chromosome?
fucking huge

[Anonymous No.1746283]

>>1745982

[Anonymous No.1746307]

>>1746240
A single nucleotide consists of a pentose a phosphate group and a nitrogenous base. For DNA this means the molar mass varies between 380g to 340. Assuming a straight average of 360, which it is not, the shortest known self reproducing genome would have a molar mass of 209,869,200 grams, or 210 tonnes.

Humans have about 2.9 billion base pairs, so the molar mass of our genome would be 1044000000000 grams, or just over 1 million tonnes. The combines mass of all humans on Earth is roughly 400 million tonnes.

Your call was correct sir.

[Anonymous No.1746319]

>If the DNA was stretched out it would reach from the earth to the moon and back 5 million times.

Only impressive when I see it happen. And I officially have plans to make it happen.

[Anonymous No.1746332]

>>1746279
Do you know the molar mass of an elephant? Fucking huger

Molar mass should not be used to compare densities of objects

[Anonymous No.1746334]

>>1746238
and yet there has STILL never been evidence of a beneficial mutation occuring.

[Anonymous No.1746337]

OP doesn't troll, but OP's logic is completely fallacious.

It is indeed near impossible for DNA to be created out of mere chance granted the specificity in it's design, DNA appearing out of no where just simply cannot happen. Though given certain events, over time the probability increases, from the first organic compounds and nitrogren bonds to the first nucleotides, they chances of the next evolution occurring increased because the attributes of DNA favor eachother. Figure it like this, nothing is the way it is for no reason, their is always a preceding factor that caused each adaptation. It's impossible for DNA to appear out of no where, but its very possible to have a chemically active puddle, which makes it possible to have organic compounds, which makes it possible to have simple nucleotides, and Simple RNA and which allows for DNA and so forth. It's a domino affect.

Life was inevitable. It's apart of the large design of the universe, life is a more complex form of matter. The goal of the universe is for life to define it, there will be a point where all matter is life.

[Anonymous No.1746357]

>>1746337
>still thinks humans are only the sum of their parts

nope, no scientist would ever argue that a human being is ONLY matter. there's something more to us, as we are made in God's image and our choices have consequences.

[Anonymous No.1746368]

>>1746334

Are you stronger than any of your friends? That's beneficial.

There's a mutation that an extended family in the US has that makes their bones virtually unbreakable, that's pretty fucking beneficial.

Breeding dogs for speed. You use only the fastest dogs for breeding, and eventually you get faster and faster dogs being born; The greyhound. That's beneficial if you need to be really fast

[Anonymous No.1746371]

>>1746357
Get the FUCK out of /sci/

[Anonymous No.1746382]

>>1746357

Umm, pretty much every scientist would say that actually.

Which god exactly, and provide me evidence for why that god is the most likely candidate, without using the holy book of that religion of course

[Anonymous No.1746385]

>>1746368
those don't add functions, they enhance ones the lifeform already has. plus, there's a reason our bones break: so that worse damage doesn't occur. God is wise.

and I'm only stronger than my friends because i work out.

[Anonymous No.1746393]

>>1746334
Yes there has.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._coli_long-term_evolution_experiment
http://myxo.css.msu.edu/ecoli/

[Anonymous No.1746396]

>>1746385

You obviously lack even an elementary understanding evolution or genetics

[Anonymous No.1746407]

>>1746393
that doesn't even count, most bacteria weren't created by God, but formed from the cells of animals after the Fall of Man. otherwise, nothng on the Ark would have survived.

[Anonymous No.1746408]

>1 in 10,119,000
>impossible
You just gave the odds.. If it were impossible, there'd be no odds, no?
The odds of winning the lottery and such are lower (1 in 13,983,816 according to wikipedia for a 6 number 1 to 49 lotto), yet people win all the time.
tl;dr useless metrics, bullshit, and trolling

[Anonymous No.1746422]

fucking idiots the lot of you, odds have nothing to do with it... learn2evolution

if you see a tree do you think it "just magically appeared" as a whole tree, poosh! in the middle of the forst? I mean, WHAT WOULD THE ODDS BE??!!

or (check THIS out you retards) do you think it started off as a tiny seed that grew and took nutrients and used photosynthesis to grow and build and grow (and wasn't killed by weeds like most of the other seeds were) and grew and growed and up and up over time until it's a fucking huge tree that you're looking at thinking, like, WHAT ARE THE FUCKING ODDS??!!

/thread

[Anonymous No.1746431]

>>1746422
Through God all things are possible.

[Anonymous No.1746425]

>>1746407
>and yet there has STILL never been evidence of a beneficial mutation occuring.
>I provide proof of a beneficial mutation occurring in E. coli
>You say the evidence doesn't count and that you are still right
Your and idiot.

[Anonymous No.1746439]

>>1746425
it wasn't conclusive evidence, sir. there is a difference between conclusive and inconclusive and all scientists know it. now try something multicellular, that can be described by the hebrew word "nefesh", and then we'll talk.

[Anonymous No.1746440]

>IMPOSSIBLE!

No, that would be HARDLY possible, you dumbfuck.

[Anonymous No.1746443]

>>1746439
wrong face

here it is

[Anonymous No.1746449]

>>1746431
get the fuck out haven't you got some faggot satan worshipping church to go to?

[Anonymous No.1746451]

>>1746440
then there's no such thing as "physically impossible", is there? only "logically impossible". you would know otherwise if you bothered reading the Bible.

[Anonymous No.1746462]

>>1745892
>CHANCE is 1 x 10119,000
>In other words - IMPOSSIBLE!

Are you a retard or just a troll, First off I dont trust your number but that doesnt matter, even IF those are the right numbers.

Improbable DOES NOT FUCKING EQUAL impossible . EVER.
logic mother fucker.

[Anonymous No.1746466]

creationtards: why try to disprove evolution when your concept of God quite clearly requires there to be a credible alternative to the existence of God, in order to give people a choice whether to believe or not, and so guarantee human free will?

srsly learn2yourOWNFUCKINGRELIGION

[Anonymous No.1746482]

>>1746466
what? "free will" doesn't mean that truth has to be a cr*pshoot.

[Anonymous No.1746481]

>>1746439
Lol you don't think that was conclusive evidence of a beneficial mutation.

What difference does it matter if it occurred in a multicellular organism or a single-celled one?

[Anonymous No.1746486]

>>1746482
>cr*pshoot

Ha ha ha oh wow.

TROLLITUDE AT MAXIMUM!

[Anonymous No.1746507]

>>1746307
i calculate ~567g/mole for basepairs

.5kg/mole bp * (6.02x10^23) =3.01x10^23kg bp /~20mbp per chromosome
1.5x10^16kg

6.5bill humans x (80kg) = 5.2x10^11kg

1.5x10^16kg > 5.2x10^11kg what now?

[Anonymous No.1746533]

>>1746507
>i make poast

[Anonymous No.1746536]

>The chance of creating one DNA molecule by CHANCE is 1 x 10119,000

>In other words - IMPOSSIBLE!

Uuuh...Only something with a 0% probability is impossible, first of all. And second of all, given infinite time, DNA would arise by chance eventually. Just statistics.

[Anonymous No.1746624]

>>1746482
what fucking truth?

If God proves existence, no-one has a choice but to 'love, worship and obey' god. This is why the angels weren't so much to God's liking, they were moire sort of asslicking butthurts. Even the one that fell was God's first free will attempt and not particularly satisfying to the big dude.

So God made humans to be able to choose, whether to go for the god loving bullshit or go down the route of sin. But in order for it to be a credible choice, we have to have a credible alternative to the existence of god.

evolution, astrophysics, QM, whatever.

So trying to disprove the science is a SIN you fucktards. If you choose to disbelieve the science, you should get into church and pray like fuck but you'll never PROVE god because by your own fucking definitions God don't want to be PROVED.

Ffs. While reading up on this retarded ignorance is amusing, I fucking hate it too.

[Anonymous No.1746717]

I am more pissed of at you retard /sci/entists than OP by far. WHY MUST YOU FEED THE TROLL fucking sage whilst telling the troll the info 90% of other fucktards in this thread have done in an attempt to get him to suddenly see the error of his ways.
OP go impale yourself on a spire of dicks
Everyone who didn't sage: Lrn2spot trolls and until you do please just lurk on /sci/

[Anonymous No.1747424]

>>1746717
for fun

[Anonymous No.1747448]

>If you extracted all the information from the DNA it would fill only 2 tablespoons.

>If you filled a book with all the information contained in DNA you would have enough to fill the Grand Canyon 40 times.

First off, what are you calling information here? Parts that code proteins? Parts involved in the synthesizing of proteins but that don't directly code them? Parts that have been deactivated and don't code shit? Parts involved in mantaining the structure of the chromatides/chromosomes? A whole lot of your DNA is just a bunch of "This part intentionally left blank", and for good reasons, too.