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/sci/ - Science & Math

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1698023 No.1698023 [Reply] [Original]

I have a plan for the private colonization of the moon. My plan includes 5 aerospace companies they are

1.SpaceX
2.Bigelow aerospace
3.Virgin galactic or Reaction Engines Limited
4.Armadillo aerospace
5.Ad Astra Rocket company

First SpaceX launches the Sundancer Inflatable habitation module into LEO and offers rides to it by its dragon spacecraft. Later once Virgin galactic or
Reaction Engines Limited, creates a spaceplane that can get to LEO, the ferrying of people to the Bigelow space stations can be taken over by one of these companies.
By this point the Falcon 9 rocket is expected to be completely reusable, and can be used to carry Cargo or new Space station parts(Such as the BA 330)to LEO. By this
point Access to LEO will be relativity cheap and routine, with Cargo being carried to LEO by the reusable Falcon 9, and people by the SKYLON or one of SpaceShip series
Also we will have space station technology superior to the international space station. After this you launch a bigelow space station into geostationary orbit around the earth
to act as a transfer point to the moon. You can get there using a modified Dragon SpaceCraft you could make this craft small and without living space because its a relativity short trip.

>> No.1698024

>>1698023
Then SpaceX(maybe with the collaboration of bigelow)can create a spacecraft that is designed to go from LEO to Lunar orbit and only operate in space. This Spacecraft
might be based of the Apollo CSM, the command module could be a modified dragon spacecraft. The Service module could be a BA 330 to act as living quarters. The engines would
might be VASIMR engines(created by Ad Astra rocket company). These engines would be powered by Advanced solar panels that are expected to be released in the near future.
this space craft would be launched from the geostationary space station so it will be farther away from the gravity of the earth.

This Spacecraft would cheaply ferry humans to lunar orbit to dock with another Bigelow space station complex launched there beforehand by SpaceX's Heavy lift rockets.
At this time I think that SpaceX will have a Super heavy lift launch Vehicle(SpaceX has already Proposed building such a rocket). After the LEO to lunar orbit spacecraft docks
with the lunar orbit space station they will take a lunar lander built by armadillo aerospace to the surface. Armadillo's work on VTOL spacecraft makes them the ones that will
probably make this craft. The moon base will be made of BA 330 modules set underground as to protect the lunar colonists from the dangerous solar radiation.

A main reason why space is something not many people want to invest in is because its very expensive to fund and there its an unknown if the funding will get results.
Also it takes a long time to make a profit because it takes such a long time to develop the craft. My plan eliminates these economic problems by making each part of the plan worth
money on its own. The main problem I'm having is how to make a manned geostationary space station profitable.

and before you complain that this is a repost I have edited it quite a bit

>> No.1698053

>>1698023
You know you have my support. I still think we can get somewhere launching 100,000 ton payloads from a massive launch cannon. Whole facilities up in one shot, then just send up the crews with the SKYLON to unpack the facilities and begin operations.

>> No.1698119

>>1698053
>>1698053
How do you plan on getting funding for that?

>> No.1698159

>>1698053
Launch cannons destroy delicate stuff, you could use it for launching tanks of liquids or solids, but anything delicate and with structure is mush by the time it reaches orbit.
>>1698119
Given the history of people abusing you, you should know better than to attack an idea blithely as opposed to evaluating it's technical shortcomings first.

>> No.1698195

>>1698159
im not attacking it am just curious

Who is going to fund that

>> No.1698200

>>1698159
Also people don't insult me much anymore

except that guy who states a 16 year old deist
IN ALL CAPS

>> No.1698213

can I forestry on the moon?

I can also do manual labour for you guyz!

>> No.1698228

Smelting moon minerals with earth/ other moon minerals?

The moon rock has to sell for something in some shape or form...

>> No.1698245

>>1698228
Well the stuff on the moon came from the earth

The current accepted way the moon was formed is that another large body smashed into the earth and ejected the material that would become the moon.

So the moons elements are mostly found on earth

But there is remnants of the large body that hit the earth in the moon

>> No.1698248

>>1698213
Do you have a working biosphere by any chance?

Is do then sure!

As long as you don't getting blasted by radiation when the sun is out

>> No.1698251

You've posted this four days ago and when told to that you're utterly vague, you still didn't take the advice.

Quit attention whoring.

>> No.1698272

>>1698248
>Do you have a working biosphere by any chance?
well no... but if you bring enough fiberglass along I think I can make something out of it

>As long as you don't getting blasted by radiation when the sun is out
don't worry about that I tan easily

>> No.1698281

>>1698251
OK then tell me specifically what i'm being vague about.

Also I did take the advice

I just don't have the expertise yet to make it much more complex

This shit takes longer then 4 days

>> No.1698284

>>1698272
Well thats great news!

Can you wait 20 years?

>> No.1698298

>>1698284
sure

it will take at least 3 to take my degree after all

okey now! back to the blueprints of the bio-sphere...
... now where could we put these cyanobacteria culture plant?.........

>> No.1698339

And then... Mars!

The trip is a long one, but it'd be damn worth it.

>> No.1698372

>>1698339
Agreed

but im not planning for that now

Thats just to far in the future

>> No.1698410

>>1698119

I purposefully overprice it at 100 billion. Spread out over a ten year construction cycle, it only costs 10 billion a year. We spend hundreds of billions on literally nothing, I think doing several centuries worth launches in a single shot will be well worth it.

>>1698159
Certain materials can not be brought. Everything else is "packed" in a "launch state" to be unpacked and brought into operational readiness by the crew.

>> No.1698427

>>1698053
It's inherently impossible. Anything moving through the lower atmosphere at speeds in excess of what's required for orbit would vaporize virtually instantly.

>> No.1698450

>>1698427
Oh my god! Somebody better tell NASA before they try moving anything through the atmosphere at orbital velocity!

>> No.1698452

>>1698410
How about instead of that you focus on mars drivers?

It would be very expensive to make(also you would need room temperature superconductors)

But it can launch things into orbit for a very cheap cost

>> No.1698456

>>1698450
They know this, retard. That's why the slow their space ships down using heat shields in the upper atmosphere.

>> No.1698460

>>1698452
The problem is we don't have room temperature superconductors. But we have explosives, concrete, and steel right now.

>> No.1698466

>>1698456
Wow, what a clever idea. A heat shield... you know, if you weren't an obvious troll I'd swear you were defeating you own point with self contradiction. But you're a troll, so it has to be on purpose, thus you don't really have a flawed argument. Good for you.

>> No.1698467

>>1698460
But room temperature superconductors aren't restricted by the laws of physics

>> No.1698475

>>1698466
God you're stupid. The heat shield only works because they use it where the atmosphere is incredibly thin. If you put any heat shield in the lower atmosphere at orbital speeds it is instantly vaporized. If you don't believe me, find someone who can do the math for you.

>> No.1698483

>>1698467
Awesome, well tell me where I can order 50,000 tons worth of them.

>> No.1698493

>>1698475
Giving you the benefit of the doubt here... basic ballistics. Explain why man made objects that move exclusively through lower atmosphere for thirty seconds at a time at greater speeds than orbital velocity are not instantly vaporized, and why this would not apply to a launch vehicle.

>> No.1698499

I think setting up a sort of station between Mars and Earth that orbits the sun at roughly the same speed as Earth and Mars would be neat.

>> No.1698505

>>1698499
We should just set up a space station at a Lagrange point

also look up the Hohmann transfer orbit

>> No.1698552

tonne>ton

Dammit /sci/ get it right or shit will break up in the atmosphere again

>> No.1698581

>>1698552
When was the first time?

>> No.1698603

>>1698581
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Climate_Orbiter#The_metric.2FUS_customary_units_mix-up

>> No.1698688

bump

>> No.1698782

>>1698053

What about Shroeder Guns? You just dig a hole, dig a dome-shaped cave, fill it with graphite and salt (Preferably a salt dome dug within a salt mine), and then you put a nuke inside.

Completely safe just like all our other underground tests since the radiation is blocked by miles and miles of dense rock, and the blast can carry 280,000 TONNES OF CARGO INTO ORBIT OH GOD I AM NOW SEXUALLY AROUSED.

>> No.1698800

>>1698782

Schroeder Guns*

Bit of a derp there.

>> No.1698821

>>1698782
Calculate the speed you'd need. Then calculate the lowest possible coefficient of friction for what you're going to shoot. Then calculate the amount of heat you're going to generate. And explain what you're going to do with all that heat.

>> No.1698840

>>1698821

Have Ammonia pumped all over.

Or instead of having the nuke blast directly into the craft put a pusher plate, since it can lift 280,000 tonnes there shouldn't be much of a mass penalty with the pusher plate.

>> No.1698868

>>1698840
except whatever you're trying to send into orbit or beyond has to be sturdy enough to survive the acceleration required to reach space in a single push, otherwise the point is moot. No humans allowed, that's for sure.

>> No.1698878

>>1698868

No humans and delicate equipment could go on the Schroeder Guns, those would have to be sent through conventional rockets, or Lightcraft, or space elevators IF ONLY.

But you could send entire O'Neill Cylinders or huge, generational ships into space! The whole of the equipment required to start a self-sustaining asteroidal or Martian or Lunar is Cisjovian base with a population not of 60 scientists but dozens of thousands! An entire city blasted into Low Earth Orbit waiting for its crew to get on!

>> No.1698889

>>1698878
No jews allowed.

>> No.1698900

OP, I'm guessing nobody has replied to you yet at the OSM website? The new page should be coming up in the next week, at which point in time posting projects will be worthwhile.

>> No.1698906
File: 61 KB, 439x324, 1282506108639.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1698906

>>1698889

Okay.

WAIT

WHAT IF WE

LIKE

GUYS

I HAVE THE BEST

THE BEST

IDEA EVUR

WHAT IF

WHAT IF WE LIKE

GUYS

WHAT IF WE TAKE ALL THE YOUNG EARTH CREATIONISTS, THE XENOPHOBES AND THE LUDDITES

AND WE PUT THEM ALL IN A GENERATIONAL SHIP

AND THEN

GUYS

GUYS

AND THEN

HEAR ME OUT

AND THEN WE ACCELERATE THEM OUT OF THE GALACTIC PLANE USING A BEAM-PROPELLED MAGSAIL

THANK YOU ROBERT ZUBRIN

>> No.1698917
File: 26 KB, 300x291, 300px-Robert_Zubrin.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1698917

>>1698906
THREE PLAYER CHESS?!

IT'LL NEVER WORK!

>> No.1698956

>>1698900
I know

Just felt like posting it

>> No.1699244

bump

>> No.1699271 [DELETED] 

>private colonization of the moon
>private

If you don't take me with you, I will destroy your plans and fucking ships.
I'll destroy everything.

>> No.1699397

Armadillo Aerospace is a great name. Armadillos are the first thing that comes to mind when I think aeronautics.

>> No.1699495

So guys what do you think I should focus on first

1.The technical aspects of my plan
2.making an business plan

>> No.1699508

>>1699495

Engineering problems are solvable, economic problems...

>> No.1699560

>>1699397

>Armadillos are the first thing that comes to mind when I think aeronautics.

It is fitting. The future of private space industry is being designed in Mojave.

All of the start ups that are doing serious research are based there. Its the silicon valley of private space tech.

So choosing the name Armadillo is nice.

>> No.1699707

>>1698782
>why not use a nuke?

...I am, now SHUSH or they will pull the funding.

>> No.1699768

>>1699560
I know Virgin is based there but who else?

>> No.1699776

>>1698023
It's a whale

>> No.1699804

>>1699776
Thats the SKYLON spaceplane in development by Reaction engines Limited.

It can carry 24 passengers to Orbit

>> No.1699903

>>1699768

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masten_Space_Systems

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interorbital_Systems

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scaled_Composites

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XCOR_Aerospace

among others.

Mojave is the wild west of rockets.

A lot of bright people there thinking up of better ways to get us into space. Lots of guys from MIT head straight there right out of school.

That area is very friendly to those companies, property is cheap, and the weather is perfect for rocketry. It also helps that google and other companies quietly help them out now and then.

>> No.1699913

>>1699903
Yeah back in DC I met the CEO of masten space systems

Cool guy

>> No.1699927

>>1699913


There are documentaries online about Mojaves space industry. I don't have the links anymore, but it is a fascinating place.

It is reminiscent of what America was like in the late 19th century. Full of people that have lots of ideas on how to do great things.

They have a lot of freedom there, and I have no doubt they are going to make a shit load of money at some point.

They even made their own rocket racing league.

One of the racing rockets made its debut in Wisconsin a couple of years ago:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEPr3DRUS7Y

>> No.1699940

>>1699927
Very interesting

I will be sure to look into this

>> No.1699970

Hey I was just thinking

Why should I have a lunar space station?

I would be vulnerable to Micro meteoroids
No magnetosphere to project against solar radiation

It Would be an unnecessarily step

We should just Go Apollo style

>> No.1699995

>>1699970

We don't have enough possible targets.

In fact, right now we are only capable of reaching about 3 or 4, and the missions would all between 5-15 years apart.

Our first chance at going after an asteroid will be in 2020, second in 2025, and third in 2035.

Theres a possible fourth one but NASA isn't sure yet.

They say that by 2020 our list of known asteroids should double from what we have now, so more possible missions would be available. The Europeans are responsible for this, with with their giant ground based telescopes.

I agree though, if we ever plan on going all Space Odyssey 2001 on the solar systems ass then we will need to figure out how to deal with asteroids. using them for fuel and even as tiny bases where our ships could dock.

>> No.1700012

>>1699995
im going for private industry

Also landing on an asteroid is much harder then landing on the moon

>> No.1700037

>>1699995
I meant taking out a lunar space station of the lunar colonization steps

>> No.1700107

bump

>> No.1700198

bump

>> No.1700229
File: 37 KB, 480x322, ukshed4.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1700229

Good luck colonizing OP without the technology to produce food in space.

Might wanna drop one of those companies of the list and drop mine on there.

Pic very related - my parent company growing animal fodder grasses without light at all.

>> No.1700237

>>1700229
>without light at all.

then how the fuck am I seeing them? my eyes only work with light.

>> No.1700242

>>1700237

Camera Flash, duh?

>> No.1700265

>>1700229
Is there any advantage in growing grass that way for Earth usage?

>> No.1700290

>>1700229
WE just use hydroponics

Next

>> No.1700311

>>1700290

Hydroponics? In zero gravity?

LOL U CRAZY

Also: Spirulina algae. Look it up. Perfect food for space exploration and colonies, can be modded so it has any taste you want, so you can keep different tanks with different tastes. Mind you, it's much better than having plants that might all die when isolated from the rest of the biome because Sagan knows what.

>> No.1700313

>>1700290

Are you blind? That dude's picture IS a hydroponic's system. Uh, DUUUH.

How are you going to grow things out there with the lower amounts of energy available?

>> No.1700321

>>1700265

There are plenty of uses. This allows us to produce food and raise livestock in areas otherwise nearly incapable of sustaining life.

This system was designed for use out in the Deserts of Africa and Australia and Asia.

Don't rag on OP, there's gravity on the MOON which is where he clearly stated he wished to go. But he won't survive there very long without food production.

Also, in Zero-G, you can use centrifugal force to simulate gravity. Spin on an axis and you're set. The only issue there is being able to withstand the shearing forces.

>> No.1700331

>>1700311

Spirulina is good but with some of the stuff we've recently discovered we'd be better off waiting for these new discoveries to be GM into the algae, such as the ability to do photosynthesis with IR light, which we previously thought impossible not even a decade ago.

>> No.1700340

>>1700311
Theres gravity on the moon

also I will look that up

>> No.1700385

>its an unknown if the funding will get results.

Only investors would consider no financial gain a "no-result" situation. Real scientists, on the other hand...

>> No.1700432
File: 12 KB, 319x347, smelly_laugh_man.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1700432

What happens when you drop a pen on the Moon?

>> No.1700442

>>1700385
Name me a real scientists rolling in cash that loves the moon

>> No.1700459

>>1700432
it drops to the surface

>> No.1700470

>>1700442

I would be one of those scientists, actually, sir.

Talk to me when you drive a 1937 Mercer with an original Coventry Climax engine (AKA you've got half a million to just burn plus another million to ensure you have replacement parts for the entire vehicle.)

>> No.1700492
File: 72 KB, 480x317, mercer1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1700492

Oh, picture proof of the car, /g/entlemen

hang on, I've got an interior shot as well somewhere in my autoshow folder.

>> No.1700497
File: 38 KB, 480x322, mercer2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1700497

Pic 2

>> No.1700500
File: 44 KB, 480x322, mercer3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1700500

Pic 3

>> No.1700513

>>1700470
Talk to me when you didn't download those pictures from 4chan.

>> No.1700532

>>1700513

They weren't downloaded from 4chan.

LOL.

Let me guess, classless Amerifag doesn't recognize UK cars?

>> No.1700547

>>1700532
wheel is on the wrong side. not a real car.

>> No.1700564

>>1700532

Faggoty green? Check
No longer made? Check
Owned by fag? Check

>> No.1700572

>>1700470
SO how much are you willing to put into moon colonization

>> No.1700584

To the stars!

First get some kind of cheap launch system. Interplanetary is then easy. After that we need to put a team of physicists on breaking lightspeed.

>> No.1700597

>>1700572

Some money about 10 bucks. Per month.

If everyone in the industrialized world did that...

>> No.1700610

>>1700572

Anywhere from 50-100 million into ensuring my technology works on the moon to keep man alive.

My goal is to have mankind farming off-planet. Even with the mere few million already invested into that, I'm pretty much there. All I'm waiting for are the slow-asses that can't pay for some NASA research and get their asses up there already.

>>1700564
>>1700547

Aww, are we jealous?

>> No.1700694

>>1700610
You're a rich scientists with over a 100 million dollars?

Who are you?

>> No.1700718

>>1700694

I'm the scientist, I have the investors backing me to toss around that much money into it once the right companies actually show results of their own. I tell them where to put their money and give them results in months of time instead of years. A year ago, I would have had only a million to back up a project, now I've got MINIMUM fifty million and maximum one hundred million to put into a new super project thanks to my ability to give impressive results in very little time. I even cut down their original 8 day fodder production process to 6 days and increased the yield 30%. instant contract with the Middle East for hydroponics crop production sheds.

Hmm, so odds are a great majority of that money might be from new Mid-East investors buying into the company or the project. I don't get told these details, I usually have to extrapolate the information from the sparse e-mail and blackberry communications I receive.

>> No.1700806

>>1700718
are you famous?

What ye name>

>> No.1700857

>>1700806

I'm not famous at all.

And I don't give out my name on 4chan. That's just common sense, man.

>> No.1702118

>>1700857
That is common sense

>> No.1702240

actually having a CSM orbiting the moon instead of a space station would hold up traffic not allowing the CSM to go back to get more people.

We should just make the space station manned only when transferring to a Lunar lander.

That way we could avoid long term radiation exposure

a couple days didn't hurt the Apollo astronauts

>> No.1704362

bump

>> No.1704386

yeh space colonisation aint gona happen for a long long long time, unless we all transplant our brains into digital data leave our human bodies and become arobotic bio machines! oh and the whole money thing, people choose food over a few pence difference does you think people will pay to live on a dust bowl in space for millions of monies!!

>> No.1704526

>>1704386
please be troll