/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.16198410]

The fact that I am talking about consciousness implies that consciousness has some observable effect on the universe, because if I wasn’t conscious, I wouldn’t be talking about it. Furthermore, if consciousness has an observable effect on the universe then it should be considered a force just like gravity, electromagnetism, strong force, weak force. Just because you don’t understand it doesn’t make it less valid as a universal force.

[Anonymous No.16198420]

>>16198410
>muh consciousness

Not science or math. If anything, the notion of "consciousness" is holding back modern neuroscience, and therefore constitute a form of anti-science ideology. The vast majority of working neuroscientists believe that consciousness is an illusion that can be explained away in terms of brain state, which actually exist and can be observed and measured.

[bodhi No.16198426]

>>16198420
Impressive how stupid post this

[Anonymous No.16198435]

>>16198420
>I don’t understand so I’ll pretend it doesn’t exist

P zombies are not welcome ITT

[Anonymous No.16198462]

>>16198410
You can't collapse a quantum wave function unless a consciousness observes it. Thus we must conclude that lacking a conscious observer nothing can exist. It's the "Tree in the Woods" paradox. If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound? The answer is of course, no.

So it is with The Universe. To exist, someone must be here to look at it. I'm just now getting into it by Sir Roger Penrose and others believe the brain and consciousness have quantum systems. These systems generate randomness via uncertainty principle among other things. So the brain is likely hardwired into the quantum world which has huge implications.

>>16198420
>IQ of 07 detected
Cope and seethe more midwit.

[Anonymous No.16198478]

Materialism vs idealism.

Is matter primary and mind secondary? (Materialism)
Or
Is mind primary and matter secondary? (Idealism)

I honestly don’t know which one it is. But if you put a gun to my head and forced me to choose one or the other, I would pick materialism

[Anonymous No.16198717]

>>16198410
take this to philosophy or something

[Anonymous No.16198761]

>>16198410
I btfo advaitafag a few years a go on /lit/ with this argument and he replied with few pages wall of non sequitur as usual.

[Anonymous No.16198766]

>>16198410
>The fact that I am talking about a comic book plot implies that a comic book plot has some observable effect on the universe, because if I wasn’t affected, I wouldn’t be talking about it. Furthermore, if a comic book plot has an observable effect on the universe then it should be considered a force just like gravity, electromagnetism, strong force, weak force. Just because you don’t understand it doesn’t make it less valid as a universal force.

[Anonymous No.16198767]

>>16198478
Dualism is the only acceptable answer. Mind and matter both depend on each other by means of interaction.

[Anonymous No.16198772]

>>16198435
You are just mad because you can't figure out how to define consciousness to maintain your special snowflake status to yourself without the definition equally apply to insects and roombas as much as retards who larp as demigods on science forums.

[Anonymous No.16198773]

>>16198766
Clearly comic books do have observable effects. If I spank your slutty ass with a comic book you're gonna cry. That's a physical effect. Unlike consciousness it is reducible to the classical laws of physics thoughever.

[Anonymous No.16198774]

>>16198773
You can spank someone with a plot?

[Anonymous No.16198790]

>>16198766
True. Are you retarded?

[Anonymous No.16198794]

>>16198790
>t. the retard who bases their concept of truth around comic book plots.

[Anonymous No.16198841]

>>16198794
>t. I hate materialism therefore information does not exist and I cannot explain how anyone can remember plot of a comic book

[Anonymous No.16198844]

>>16198841

[Anonymous No.16198848]

>>16198794
A comic book plot is merely an artefact of consciousness. It's another way consciousness affects reality. Conscious beings imagined the stories and drew the pictures and cut down the trees to pulp the paper to print the comic books on. Yes, "comic book plots" affect reality, because they are a product of consciousness, and one of the myriad ways consciousness affects the material world.

[Anonymous No.16198851]

>>16198420
>The vast majority of working neuroscientists believe that consciousness is an illusion that can be explained away in terms of brain state
OK. Explain it then.

[Anonymous No.16198861]

That's why we should be measuring consciousness in units like we do with other forces.

[Anonymous No.16198864]

>>16198848
>Hey guize, ackshully tho when you rilly think about it, imaginary things are like just as real as real things

[Anonymous No.16198869]

>>16198861
Yes that is why we have qualions.

[Anonymous No.16198899]

>>16198864
Religions are imaginary things. That does not mean that they are not "real" in the most important sense of the word.

[Anonymous No.16198903]

>>16198899
So the biblical universe is just an extension of the marvel multiverse?

[Anonymous No.16198910]

>>16198899
No, imaginary things literally means things that aren't real since imaginary is specifically defined as lacking factual reality.

[Anonymous No.16198915]

>>16198910
Yet they still exist and still affect reality. People still die for them. If people die for something, how can it not be real?

[Anonymous No.16198920]

>>16198915
>Yet they still exist and still affect reality.
No, imaginary things don't actually exist, you affect reality when you act based on imaginary nonsense, not the nonsense itself since it is purely imaginary when they pretend the wine is blood, the wine doesn't actually have the same effect on reality as blood would.

[Anonymous No.16198924]

>>16198920
>you affect reality when you act based on imaginary nonsense
Yes. And the imaginary nonsense, is it not also part of material reality? Are our thoughts and feelings not made up of the same base matter as our bodies? Or do you believe in the immaterial soul?

[Anonymous No.16198935]

>>16198924
>is it not also part of material reality?
Not directly just like real numbers and imaginary numbers are orthogonal and exist on different planes.

>Are our thoughts and feelings not made up of the same base matter as our bodies?
Ideas are not made of matter, no, the container for the ideas is, but the idea is a representation made by a network of excited cells, not the thing that inspired the itself.

> Or do you believe in the immaterial soul?
No form is also immaterial, so no need for a soul, a shape is not a type of matter it is an arrangement of it, the idea of your body is not made of bodies, it is made of neurons that shape themselves in a way so as to invoke consistent sets of internal stimulus that occurs when you interact with a body.

[Anonymous No.16198945]

>>16198935
>Ideas are not made of matter, no, the container for the ideas is, but the idea is a representation made by a network of excited cells
A meaningless distinction. If you believe that our thoughts and feelings are the result of interaction neurons and synapses, then there is no difference between the idea itself and the pattern of cells and impulses that describe it.

[Anonymous No.16198958]

>>16198945
>A meaningless distinction
No, you are literally mistaking the map for the territory and trying to say there is no real distinction between a map and the actual territory.

>then there is no difference between the idea itself and the pattern of cells and impulses that describe it.
There is definitely a difference between the thing and your idea of the thing same as the map is not the territory.

[Anonymous No.16199059]

>>16198420
Based. Only schizos seethe at this