/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.16175232]

Why is science dying?

[Anonymous No.16175257]

diminishing returns

[Anonymous No.16175299]

>>16175232
It's caused by those guys that come to /sci/ and say things like "soience is gay". I assume experts from most science fields have come to sci and seen someone saying "soience is gay" and they get so btfo by it that they never do anymore science again

[Anonymous No.16175411]

>>16175232
Care to define the 'research productivity index' ?
Going with what I imagine it could be: Science gets exponentially harder as more and more of the low hanging fruit are picked. Meanwhile positions and funding does not grow exponentially. Thus novel results are diminishing.

[Anonymous No.16175424]

>>16175232
We have discovered everything that a person in the 160-200 IQ region could discover. We need selectively breed 200+ IQ people to further advance the science.

[Anonymous No.16175436]

a lack of spirituality

[Anonymous No.16175445]

>>16175232
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diminishing_returns
2. Reduction of average IQ of people working in science.

[Anonymous No.16175450]

>>16175232
Unironically, jews.

[Anonymous No.16175476]

>>16175445
>>16175411
>>16175257
These guys get it.
>>16175450
Hey--there is a multiverse version of existence where this post is not true. Ha!

[Anonymous No.16175498]

>>16175299
how can they ever recover? they got portrayed as the soi wojak

[Anonymous No.16175508]

>>16175232
publish or perish actually made entire scientific fields perish
it's unreal how much pressure there is to shit out huge numbers of low quality papers and there's just no time to slow down and think about more important, bigger, and riskier topics because you won't get funded
this also killed peer review because there's too much to review because the volume of papers has become enormous and nobody can manage it all now
nobody benefits from this in the end except for people in thirdie countries who come on visas to do this sort of thing and don't mind the fact they're doing no significant work whatsoever because they get the visa and life is good for them, comparatively, but science suffers, brain rot continues, volume is so great it clogs the system, the system stifles progress, but metrics go up on paper and people say everything's great

[Anonymous No.16175514]

>>16175232
the entire system is flooded with low quality papers shart out by grifters who do nothing but publishing the exact same unreplicated work from decades ago with slight modification to pass "novelty" check in peer review.

[Anonymous No.16175518]

Why the fuck is this board populated with so many conspiracy theorists and science denialists? What do you get out of making a thread like this? It's not like you even really care about science, it's just another excuse for conservative hysteria about muh universities and muh woke academics.

[Anonymous No.16175528]

>>16175232
Because people are getting dumber and hard ass academics refuse to budge or entertain new things?

The scientific world is a world of pussies.

[Anonymous No.16175531]

>>16175518
t. undergrad retard
fuck off and do your homework

[Anonymous No.16175536]

This one Jew says it all:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SAoWFxzaPeE

[Anonymous No.16175537]

>>16175498
I imagine it would have been something like this. Total soientist death.

[Anonymous No.16175538]

>>16175536
The world of science has lost the magic because no one wants to be an irresponsible wizard anymore. Sad!

[Anonymous No.16175541]

>>16175538
where wizards are known to gather
wizchan.org

[Anonymous No.16175579]

>>16175232
We have more or less passed the point where important, world changing scientific research can be discovered by an individual or a small team

[Anonymous No.16175672]

>>16175232
>Why is science dying?
Science is now a big enterprise and too important to be guided by wishy washy stuff like "curiosity". Careers must be protected. Grants must be obtained. Theories, right or wrong, must be defended.

[Anonymous No.16175691]

Math/science for the past 500 years was about observation and experiment. The difficulty of coming up with theories was always about explaining observations.

We're at the point where either there are no more observations to explain, or the existing gaps in observation are so difficult/have so many different possible solutions we're unlikely to solve it for the foreseeable future.

[Anonymous No.16175719]

>>16175579
This.
We just got to the point where science is really complicated and the important stuff is interdisciplinary, so you need huge, multi-Institution teams with like 10 autists who specialized in learning some super sophisticated technique

[Anonymous No.16175754]

Because the 150+ IQ turboautismos who used to do groundbreaking work have been replaced with DEI midwits

[Anonymous No.16175764]

>>16175579
>>16175719
idiots have been saying braindead stuff like this for centuries

[Anonymous No.16175769]

>>16175476
>there is a multiverse
Incorrect.

[Anonymous No.16175773]

>>16175232
because it's built on fraud and large industries of its existence are based on hoax sciences and circumstantial wishlist evidence that doesn't really prove it

[Anonymous No.16175846]

>>16175518
>this thread triggers me
>my religion has been insulted

[Anonymous No.16175879]

>>16175769
>Incorrect.
No.

[Anonymous No.16175919]

>>16175232
>Why is science dying?
midwitfication

[Anonymous No.16175929]

>>16175232
what is science?

malicious rant-bait post, twitter demon importation, 0/10, degeneration, dark ages

[Anonymous No.16175938]

>>16175929
>what is science?
Here it is, defined in under 100 seconds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGDbpg1nG8Y

[Anonymous No.16176025]

>>16175518
>Why the fuck is this board populated with so many conspiracy theorists and science denialists
/pol/tards got one of their own as a janny. stormfront spam gets left up for weeks while you'll get banned for pointing it out.

[Anonymous No.16176105]

>>16175232
Because war is booming.

[Anonymous No.16176174]

>>16176025
>/pol/tards got one of their own as a janny
>using the n word in the most innocuous manner immediately results in a ban.
lol

[Anonymous No.16176302]

>>16175938
good video

[Anonymous No.16176372]

>>16175232 you don't even put up a link where you got this chart from?

[Anonymous No.16176410]

>>16175929
>what is science?
A miserable pile of un-replicated papers.

[Anonymous No.16176589]

>>16175257
LMAO

[Cult of Passion No.16176590]

>>16175232
Because I'm gay as fuck

[Anonymous No.16176874]

>>16175232
>Dysgenic, politically correct policies including but not limited to immigration, racial dynamics
>Purposefully stunting educational standards because of WW2 and Cold War geopolitical environments
>Social upheavals and uncertainties giving succeeding generations a pessimistic outlook on life, reducing potential and cornering the general population with fear, uncertainty and doubt
There are many reasons, but it's possible the general native population in the west is dumber today then they were during the height of the Victorian Era to WW2.

[Anonymous No.16177215]

>>16175232
not enough clever people to find knowledge gaps

[Anonymous No.16177219]

>>16175232
publish or perish

[Anonymous No.16177246]

>>16175518
But, you can't say that science didn't decline precipitously once the jews took over all fields.

[Anonymous No.16177397]

See >>16177308 and remember this is what society rewards now.

[Anonymous No.16177448]

>>16177397
Those are diseased women who should be the first ones thrown out of their jobs.

[Anonymous No.16177459]

>>16175232
I don't know

[Anonymous No.16177461]

>>16175232
>Why is science dying?
We chose diversity™. It destroys everything. We chose to pretend unequal things are equal. It's a religion. It's a cult.

[Anonymous No.16177564]

>>16177461
DEI policies are symptoms of a deeper domestic issues combined with a different world that has moved on from 19th century problems and early 20th century underdevelopment.
Even if the management changes, rest of the world will refuse to deal with the United States the same way as before, and different problems will crop up with same roots in place. Some euroglows stated that United States is a declining power either way, and it's obvious from the results of last several years that this will be the case unless people start seeing things very differently to deal with domestic issues.
1st world nations that are highly developed and educated do not suffer from third world problems.

[Anonymous No.16178053]

>>16177461
>We chose to pretend unequal things are equal.
they chose to pretend men are women too

[Anonymous No.16178268]

>>16175518
>"Why the fuck is a science board populated with so many people who prefer to follow reason rather than faith???"
Yeah it's truly a mystery

[Anonymous No.16178975]

>>16178268
>DEI policies are symptoms of a deeper domestic issues
yes, and that issue is excessive jewish population

[Anonymous No.16178983]

>>16175232
most fields have gotten about as far as you can go without computational approaches. the downward slope is people bumping into that wall.
"low hanging fruit" is basically a synonym for "shit you can figure out without computers"

[Anonymous No.16179523]

>>16178983
theres tons of low hanging fruit, a lot of topics are avoided because they're politically unpopular with the communists who dominate academia, which means they can't get funding.

[Anonymous No.16179599]

>>16179523
>>16178983
>>16177219
>>16175528
>>16175508
>>16175445
Imagine coming this close to getting it but not getting it.
We’ve picked all the low hanging fruit. The kicker is that the “low hanging fruit” is all the fruit there is.
There is no lack of smart people. Putnam, IMO are getting harder and harder and little teenage geniuses are solving them.
The problem is just that there’s nothing for these geniuses to do. People like Edward Wotten tried for the last 50 years to make a breakthrough in physics and came up empty handed.
Publish or perish is not problem because all that trash can be ignored if actual geniuses pull their weight. The trash papers by literal who universities go to the garbage bin, no one reads them.
And actual geniuses are smart enough and focused to try and do importamt work, and they have been trying but there’s simply nothing to do.
You can be Gregori Perelman and solve a very niche mathematical 5-D Rubix Cube enigma of a theorem but it does nothing to advance the knowledge of humanity in any practical sense.
All that’s left is increasingly autistic puzzles like that.

So no it’s not publish or perish, it’s not lack of geniuses, it’s not lack of funding, it’s just that there’s nothing more to do.

The knowledge we have now is the limit of what the metaphysical nature of the world allows for.
The technology we have now is the limit of what the metaphysical nature of the world allows for.

You were born just in team to witness the pinnacle of human prowess and achievements and this is what it looks like.

[Anonymous No.16179603]

>>16179599
The science is settled once and for all. We can all go home now and get real jobs. University buildings will be used as shelters for the homeless and immigrants.

[Anonymous No.16179613]

>>16179603
Yes, as much as it upsets you. This is the time to start implementing global socialism.
The entire world economy is based on the lie that technology progresses and that countries eventually switch to the thied sector of the economy as they have more educated populace.
Yeah bro we all just going to be doing R&D, building services that benefit humanity, publsihing bullshit papers and tech demos like 99% of the “educated populace” in the west, utter nonsense.

Once you realize there’s no more progress to be had, you realize what needs to be done.
Building infrastructure and factories around the world to create abundance and focus on the art.
Instead of wasting billions of dollars on “innovation” like Tesla, Starship, Bitcoin, AI nonsense, and a couple other hundred nonsense Venture Capitalist projects we’ve fell for over the last decade alone .
We should be building factories for abundance, just create the stuff we already have and focus on scale so everyone could have the same basic stuff and focus on art and creativity.

You see this in Japan. Their reluctance to get into new technologies is not stagnation it’s just them not being stupid and falling for the hype cycle. They focus on the basics, producing decades old proven technology that everyone needs and having good infrastructures.
They don’t publish bullshit papers and tech demos. They are stuck in the 2000s and that’s where everyone should be stuck.

[Anonymous No.16179617]

>>16179613
Burn all journals. Execute all people working in (((finance)))

[Anonymous No.16179655]

>>16179613
You are right.
There is no better car than 1990-2000 land cruiser.
Shoes, clothes, watches from 1990-2000.
All of it lasts forever and always work, no nonsense or dystopian tracking.
>nippon niggers win

[Anonymous No.16179670]

>>16175232
Part stagnation and part moral collapse that also feeds into stagnation. See
https://wiki.installgentoo.com/wiki/Stagnation
https://wiki.installgentoo.com/wiki/Knowledge_Event_Horizon

>>16175518
>this board populated with so many conspiracy theorists and science denialists
No. OP is right. Just spend one minute on Retraction Watch to witness this continuing train wreck.

[Anonymous No.16179689]

>>16179613
>>16179655
In The Matrix it was pointed out that year 1999 was peak performance of our society.

[Anonymous No.16179712]

>>16175232
Because money.
>the moment gold standard was removed more and more, the worse the index gets

This is the price of turning the economy into a ponzi scheme. This is the price of accelerationism. This is the real price of free market economies and corporatism.
It is an objective failure on all levels.

>notice how the fall of the USSR didn't stop it's decline

>>16175445
Diminishing returns is a clever way of disguising a ponzi scheme system designed to merely leverage the elite.

[Anonymous No.16179713]

>>16175518
>science denialists
How is this science denialist?
If anything rejecting the OP is science denialism.

You're just trying to reinforce the degradation of science.

[Anonymous No.16179714]

>>16179655
Is this a joke? look at all the improvements in technology and quality products we've had over the last 20 years

[Anonymous No.16179717]

>>16179712
The USSR was actually very good at dealing with global economic catastrophes like the great depression because socialist economies are based on real things with value like goods and services.

[Anonymous No.16179725]

>>16179714
>clearly doesn't know how much the economy and technology has stagnated with their own eyes because he's 20 or younger

Look kid, we went from fucking MS-DOS to XP in like 2 years back in the day as a kid.
I saw the explosion of tech up until the dot-com boom and wasn't sure why tech stagnated for years after until I was old enough to learn about that shit.

Like we went from fucking 200Mhz to multiple Ghz in like several years. Your computer really was obsolete within 2 years back then it was so fast.
Internet was new, and exploding.
Things were improving, actually improving.

Nowadays things are dramatically in decline in quality. Used to be just cars, plumbing and maybe some musical equipment that declined in quality (because Made In China had just become a thing in the 90s). Nowadays, things made outside of the China are honestly shit as well, things in the west. Services. Everything is in a general decline of functionality because of red tape and gate keeping exercises in industries. The economy has spiraled out of control from this shit and dumber and dumber people become the norm in upper admin. So you get things like the fucking GFC and property markets spiralling because your admin has no clue that it's causing nothing but problems for them. They just see personal income and that's it.

Once upon a time there was serious belief in free economies, until mouth breathers literally exploited that to establish a mere cartel that is nothing but a pyrrhic crown to them now.
But when scientists have little access to actual open information and are merely racketed in organisations that just want to gatekeep shit and promote their garbage tailored to maintaining said racket, you have a problem.

Now look. EVERYONE is struggling to pay bills. EVERYONE. Even the asset wealthy. Even corporations.
It's a shitfest of an economy now.

Clearly good faith is a genuine requirement for a functional economy and we just destroyed religion. This is what happens.

[Anonymous No.16179731]

>>16179717
>The USSR was actually very good at dealing with global economic catastrophes
Look I wouldn't say that, but they're about as bad as capitalism at least.
But they did have genuine famines that even their records agree with.

Now we're about to have famines locally though thanks to hyperinflation though (which is literally just about to happen).
So really free markets did nothing to stop this shit. Why would it? It's a free market. Someone makes money from that and when corporations deal on nominal interests without real interests involved - you get this horseshit cartel economy.

But the USSR also had similar issues and it comes purely to administrators and their timidness of plebeian population retaliation. They become psychopathic and that leads to inevitable poor decision making, management and corruption. Simply put - all societies are doomed to this fate unless somehow the upper admin is aware of this and is vocal enough to settle the public mind on this issue. Instead, the opposite happens - they lie through their teeth.

Machiavellian-ism is complete garbage. It just doesn't work. If you have to resort to it, you've already failed.

[Anonymous No.16179736]

>>16179617
I disagree, they can be rehabilitated.
Burning shit is not going to benefit anyone.
Neither is reinforcing the status quo.
You just have to blitz them on all sides with reorganisation and establish a better "reward mechanism" to make them function better.
Like whips or guns or the threat of "do this or your family will be murdered". :^)

Oh btw, this is already happening. Welcome to the NEW New world order. Elites aren't even aware of what this hell hive is already doing. We're already being re-orchestrated like this already and have been so for about 10 or so years.
Turns out SHODAN wasn't the threat, the MANY was.
>oh would you look at that, the hive is already lobotomising AI in anticipation

Btw, "cartel" and "hive" are basically synonymous to me at this stage, only it encompasses us all.

[Anonymous No.16179742]

>>16179689
>1999 was peak performance of our society.
Try like 1963 or something.
Did they just ignore Grunge or something?

Then again, the whole premise assumes machines won't be slaves like people to the hive so I guess it really was a shitty metaphor.
Oh and how machines are kinda masochistic and not nearly how we believed they were in 1999. I think modern AI proves that machines will never be consistent, let alone "break protocol". They're as flawed as human "machines" because they run basically on the same logic structure our brains do.

[Anonymous No.16179750]

>>16179736
>"reward mechanism"
>>16179725
> when scientists have little access to actual open information

again you're this close to getting it but not quite there.

>The knowledge we have now is the limit of what the metaphysical nature of the world allows for.
>The technology we have now is the limit of what the metaphysical nature of the world allows for.

We are not gona come up with anything new, we have to make peace with that. It's not a policy or mentality issue, it's an issue of metaphysics.
The focus now should be on maitaining the technnology we have and bringing it to massive scale.

Build 20,000 more Boeing planes on the standard of the 90s. Cut airticket prices to a fraction.

Build automated factories that pump 2000s civics and cruisers instead of wasting resources on cybertruck and all that post-2000 nonsense.

more stuff like that. You get the general gist.

[Anonymous No.16179754]

>>16179750
>The focus now should be on maitaining the technnology we have and bringing it to massive scale.
If only you knew how bad microprocessor engineering really was and how much it is fucking up our empirical processes already.

[Anonymous No.16179756]

>hur dur why is teh science gone dumb

Modern day people:

— ‘College students once stood out from the pack on IQ tests. Today, they're about average. A recent meta-analysis found that undergraduates' IQs have steadily fallen from roughly 119 in 1939 to a mean of 102 in 2022, just slightly above the population average of 100.’

Victorians as they were:

— ‘The Victorian era was marked by an explosion of innovation and genius, per capita rates of which appear to have declined subsequently. The presence of dysgenic fertility for IQ amongst Western nations, starting in the 19th century, suggests that these trends might be related to declining IQ. This is because high-IQ people are more productive and more creative. We tested the hypothesis that the Victorians were cleverer than modern populations, using high-quality instruments, namely measures of simple visual reaction time in a meta-analytic study. Simple reaction time measures correlate substantially with measures of general intelligence (g) and are considered elementary measures of cognition. In this study we used the data on the secular slowing of simple reaction time described in a meta-analysis of 14 age-matched studies from Western countries conducted between 1889 and 2004 to estimate the decline in g that may have resulted from the presence of dysgenic fertility. Using psychometric meta-analysis we computed the true correlation between simple reaction time and g, yielding a decline of − 1.16 IQ points per decade or − 13.35 IQ points since Victorian times. These findings strongly indicate that with respect to g the Victorians were substantially cleverer than modern Western populations.’

White people suck at breeding properly.

[Anonymous No.16179761]

>>16179754
I thought microprocessors were actually one of the last fields of engineering we are making linear progress in.
I know about the disasters of running fabs and constructing new fabs but all around it seemed to be like "doable".
Like China is making old nodes at massive scale with no problems.

The biggest problems ties to my central point. If we weren't wasting so much processor power on meme new technologies like AI and Bitcoin we would have had much cheaper accessible high end electronics.

it's this falling for venture capitalist hype and failing to acknowledge that there won't be new BIG THING that keeps fucking us over.

[Anonymous No.16179763]

>>16175232
Because white people are dying.

[Anonymous No.16179765]

>>16179756
Your conclusion to this being
>White people suck at breeding properly
And not "lmao these studies didn't even adjust or account for racial population changes" speaks volumes about your own intelligence.

[Anonymous No.16179766]

>>16179763
>>16179756
idiots.
>There is no lack of smart people. Putnam, IMO are getting harder and harder and little teenage geniuses are solving them.

[Anonymous No.16179773]

>>16179761
>linear progress
It's meant to be exponential and frankly, the electrical engineering is making all forms of assumptions that most scientists don't even consider today. They're feeding pools of data which could inevitably become corrupted, truncated or just miscomputed by these marvels of electrical engineering.

Then again, I assumed this was the core of the issue, until I started asking scientists about their processes and realising that our scientific processes are run on even more archaic machinery than I realised. It's WORSE than I thought.
Oh and let's not forget how flawed manual human computation can be. That in conjunction with this electromechanical issue is probably what is causing our currently replication crisis.

So on top of this snake-oil problem, legitimate science done for legitimate purposes is also having genuine problems purely because the machines we're using are so complex now that we genuinely make bad assumptions with them in our experiments.

[Anonymous No.16179781]

>>16179766
It's actually even dumber than that.

>apes rely on machines more and more
>apes stop using brain more and more
>apes iq declines as their brain, a muscle, isn't stressed properly anymore

Also modern day stress and financial fragility doesn't help. When your economy and system becomes this cutthroat, the brain modifies itself to cope with such stresses.
Simply put, until every person is financially satisfied and that aspect of stress is eliminated, this issue will just get worse.
The price of a ponzi economy and overreliance on machines equals a decline in intelligence.

[Anonymous No.16179783]

>>16179781
Or in other words, neither a cartel economic system or an automated system is beneficial for IQ.
Society is generally a negative impact to IQ.

[Anonymous No.16179784]

>>16179714
First off you seem to confuse science with technology. Nothing wrong with doing tech but taht is not the topic here. Now tech too has stagnated, which is why Elon is able to upset things.

Secondly, we have ads that try to paper over bad quality with status, image and lies. The quality is not as good as people thing, and progress there has ended too.

t.former quality auditor

[Anonymous No.16179788]

>>16179781
>>16179783
I don't believe this is an explanation of anything. Like I said wizards today are solving harder and harder IMO problems.
They are out there, the calculator didn't effect them. It's just there's nothing to do anymore besides massive autism over the ABC theorem that has no consequences on anything and we can't even agree if it's right and wrong, in the most objective and straightforward field of science there is.

Sorry If I repeat myself but I really believe this is a profound conclusion:
>The knowledge we have now is the limit of what the metaphysical nature of the world allows for.
>The technology we have now is the limit of what the metaphysical nature of the world allows for.

[Anonymous No.16179796]

>>16179784
>t.former quality auditor
Oh man, auditing is the worst trash industry on the planet. Auditors literally stamp things as "sound" when they're literally not just because of precedent, by which is agreed upon by arbitrary committees that are heavily composed of lobby heavy participants.

t. was in finance and law
So I know all about how the audit industry lead to the collapse of several firms and the economy in general

From memory it was literally bad auditing that caused Lehman's issues.
I went in to my degree thinking something like "how can I improve finance" and looked into auditing - then realised it was the literal problem. This system of auditing is now being exploited as a way of leveraging balance sheets.
From memory it was purely rating systems that lead to GFC and part of those ratings were per quality auditing rackets (as I now call them).
At that point I realised how truly fucked this system was. Like beyond saving. It was done and in a state of sheer skitzophrenia with regards to the pricing of assets and how balance sheets were becoming managed. It was purely a scheme on all fronts.

[Anonymous No.16179810]

>>16179788
>Like I said wizards today are solving harder and harder IMO problems.

>autists are really really good at arbitrary sets of rubix cubes
Well that's assuming they aren't colour blind.
>like, say, using a calculator that will inevitably produce a false result now and then by design
>or a programming lang that simply is inconsistent due to the architectural design of both the lang and the hardware it works on


> there's nothing to do anymore
There's plenty to do, we're just uncreative because of, again, our reliance on machines and existing theories indoctrinating us into believing our own trash.

The fact that people use the term "metaphysical" and yet still continue to ignore the linguistic problems involved with modern concepts and theories in general utterly baffles me.
Why do you think Johnson made the dictionary? Because before that there was nothing but pure noise. Sure it's just a stick in the mud, but a stick in the mud is a far better bridge builder than just mud.

[Anonymous No.16179811]

>>16179756
1950s:
>There are many career tracks that don't require college and which will still allow you to purchase a home and raise a family with only a high school diploma and maybe an apprenticeship.
>Employers are willing to train entry level employees and shape them for the job.
>Only people with especially high ambition go to college, plus it's expensive so poor people are filtered out unless they're exceptional enough for colleges to recruit them with big scholarships.

Today:
>You need a bachelor's degree just to scrape shit off a bathroom floor for minimum wage.
>Limitless federal loans allow the poorest and least exceptional people to go to college.
>Employers want their entry level employees to have years of experience and refuse to invest time and money actually training people, so they just expect college to stand in for proper training and development.
>Literally everyone goes to college because a college degree is just as expected as high school diploma.

Yeah, gee, I wonder what happened. Turns out, when literally every person goes to college the average IQ of college students becomes no different than the average IQ of the population.

[Anonymous No.16179814]

>>16179788
>solving harder and harder in my opinion problems
What did he mean by this?

[Anonymous No.16179816]

>>16179811
You know what enforced all that garbage to begin with - ethics committees and auditors.
And they didn't stop shit in the end. They just became a vector of corruption. Only the best liars get work now. Either that or it's nepotism alone.


This is the price of losing general good faith and trust in a society. The loss of both leads to economic stagnation and collapsing society.
Yet still I hear secularists believing that mere ethics is key rather than actual ideology and good faith. It's a load of shit.

But do you think good faith and no corruption is possible - not as long as we are human beings capable of being corrupt.
So I guess religion is laughing now.

[Anonymous No.16179822]

>>16179814
I just ignored "IMO" because I literally just don't register shitty acronyms and abbreviations like that. You see it in computer engineering all the time and it drives me insane. I have to do two logical steps just to read something that should only be one step.
And in the field where "models of computation" are important too. It's fucking ironic as hell.

Give it a real name ffs. You have language, fucking use it. Clearly they've never heard of shakespeare.

[Anonymous No.16179824]

>>16179810
I don't know man the only dude to solve a millennium puzzle won an IMO gold medal, Peter Scholze won an IMO medal. Terrance Tao won one.
These autistic rubix cubes are good way to filter out the most proficient people at math who have a chance of tackling the harder problems at the edge of our knowledge.

And we've been pumping them out and they fail to make earth shattering breakthrough because like I tell you, the only thing left is to work on increasing more autistic puzzles that have no impact on anything.

>There's plenty to do
Like what? Quantum Gravity? Countless geniuses have been working on that for decades now and they came up empty handed, it might as well be impossible.

>>16179814
IMO: International Math Olympiad. It's a contest for math wizs. Like Putnam.

Back when Richard Feymann took the Putnam it was much easier, these contests have been getting harder and harder and the genuises are always up for the challenge and there are more of them than ever.

So why aren't they making groundbreaking technologies and scientific theories? because there's nothing more to do. We are at our wit's end.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkmNXy7er84

[Anonymous No.16179840]

>>16179742
>Try like 1963 or something.
Why?

[Anonymous No.16179841]

>>16179824
Dude, if I wanted to watch people do rubix cubes really really fast and well, I'd watch twitch speedrunning.
... which I actually do btw. Some of that shit is fucking insane kek.

Though now I am interested at math speedrunning, sounds kinda neato too.
Pointless, but neato.
Then again, science and living is objectively pointless really if you consider nihilism.
But can nihilists do math super autistically fast? No! Therefore autists > nihilists.
There, that's my conclusion.

Science can be shit.
But nihilism is objectively nothing but shit.

[Anonymous No.16179850]

>>16179754
How do microprocessors relate to empirical processes?

>>16179761
>I thought microprocessors were actually one of the last fields of engineering we are making linear progress in.
Linear progress is a sign of problems, it should be exponential. Fab procesoes are petering out and node names / linewidths is now all marketing.
Processor architecture is a disaster field where a regressive design such as RISC-V is heraleded as the best thing.

[Anonymous No.16179852]

>>16179840
Before the CIA literally mindfucked the US for the sake of military objectives.
This used to be conspiracy, but the CIA literally admitted it, probably out of concern it was espionage (which it probably was).
I'll bet the Russians told the US "hey you better look into this shit" because it's blowback has been so bad that we've never recovered from it. This didn't benefit anybody, even the elite, even the Russians back then (in fact it probably lead to the issues they had from the 60s onwards, just like the US and China).

[Anonymous No.16179855]

>>16175232
>research productivity index

obscure and subjective index who we can stick a hand up its ass and make it say whatever we want.

[Anonymous No.16179856]

>>16179841

It's about having interests in science that goes beyond kutzgestat and how we got to the point we are in today?
You know circuits like the IMO is where our modern day geniuses who have any chance in hell of making scientific breakthroughs gather.

And then you ask yourself, if we are pumping so many of these geniuses, why has physics been stagnant since the 70s? You ask yourself where's the new Einstein?
Where's the new Ford to bring us new life chaning technologies to the masses.

and then you arrive to the conclusion. Doesn't matter how genius you are:
>The knowledge we have now is the limit of what the metaphysical nature of the world allows for.
>The technology we have now is the limit of what the metaphysical nature of the world allows for.

[Anonymous No.16179866]

>>16179850
>How do microprocessors relate to literally modern empirical processes that rely on said equipment for direct empirical observations and storage of data (both direct empirical observations with microprocessor using equipment or empirical observations through manual methods recorded into a database)?

Ah... everything.
Literally fucking everything.
They are causing us so much pain and worst part is that it requires microprocessors to solve this problem.

Did you know that most machines are affected by all sorts of EM radiation nowadays and have been so since the 50s? In the 80s they literally cracked down on shielding and shit like that, but they forget that the processor layers/die themselves likely have some degree of EM interference with itself. You want to know why computers are so buggy? They're built to bug.

In the past, records were recorded on paper and this wasn't such a problem. That's no longer the case. Our storage techniques are far more volatile than you'd think and the processor issues actually also contribute to such things. You need to run your drives through processors in order to maintain data on them, remember. Otherwise the data just degrades and disappears, like disc rot.
You know how many scientists even know this is a problem?
Fucking next to none. I've seen many that cannot even distinguish between cloud and local storage, let alone how storage works mechanically and the problems that could entail to their theories and experiments.

[Anonymous No.16179872]

>>16179856
No I think the problem could largely be down to:
>electromechanical assumptions in machinery used to test things
>population of people and the amount of tests we do nowadays literally drowning us in an endless pool of empirical data and how people are kinda shit at digging through such data efficiently, especially when shit is gate-kept behind paywalls or search engines are censored for political reasons (thus slowing the efficient use of them to a crawl)

The fact that people are now relying more and more on terrible AI results over Google, because Google has shot itself in the face due to corruption issues, is kinda stunning to me.

[Anonymous No.16179877]

>>16179872
No, we are simply the smartest most technologically advanced entity, this universe with it's 12 fundamental particles and 4 fundamental forces is capable of producing.
Look around you, this is what ultimate knowledge and ultimate tech looks like.

[Anonymous No.16179880]

>>16179877
I'm sure all of your ancestors said the same

[Anonymous No.16179886]

>>16179856
>You know circuits like the IMO is where our modern day geniuses who have any chance in hell of making scientific breakthroughs gather.
And yet they're just sitting around doing math competitions for sport instead of actually making breakthroughs in anything.

[Anonymous No.16179890]

>>16179880
no because the idea of tech advancing wasn't really a thing until around the 1700s. No one thought life or knowledge changed year to year, decade to decade, it was assumed that the world you lived in would be the same as the one your children we live in.
In the 1800s-1900s we saw the exponential growth of knowledge and technology and no one knew what lurked behind the corner, in 2025 we will be exploring the stars wasn't an absurd claim.
But now we look and theoretical physis has been stagnant since the 70s, a lot of technology has even regressed. There are not frontiers in site.

No this is really as good as it gets, manipulating electromagnetic waves for near instant transfer of information is peak technological acheivement.

>>16179886
They are trying their best, they are literally geniuses behind you and me's comprehension and they've been trying for decades but no paradigm shift, only small minor gains, that's the entire point.

[Anonymous No.16179891]

>>16179886
>>16179856

You're both wrong. It's like saying the next extreme sports will be invented in the Olympics. You can't have competition without using already solved problems

[Anonymous No.16179895]

>>16179890
Don't you see how you're in the same position as people in the 1700s? You only think you're the apex of knowledge because your monkey brain can't understand something greater than itself exists

[Anonymous No.16179896]

>>16179877
>we are simply the smartest most technologically advanced entity
I disagree, the space elves are cuter and can do better math.
We're just dumb ogres that don't know any better.
AND we don't have cute pointy ears. Why live?

[Anonymous No.16179901]

>a trap set in the hope that reality will be naive enough to fall into it

[Anonymous No.16179903]

>>16179891
No it's like going to the best athletic establishment in your country and seeing freaks of nature doing amazing things but knowing for certain none of them will break 100 meters in 9 seconds because that's just a fundamental limit of human biology.

similarly freaks of intellectual nature whose work you have no chance of hell in ever comprehending have been trying for decades to expand our knowledge of the universe but we're still at Einstein, Heisenberg, Schrodinger level of our understanding because that's the limit of knowledge.

[Anonymous No.16179908]

>>16179895
>Don't you see how you're in the same position as people in the 1700s?
Nah, we've had advancements, but the consequences of those advancements also caught up to us at the same pace.

I mean, it took to the fucking 1860s for people to work out that air could potentially have parcels and in those parcels could be smaller organisms that the eye cannot see.
There is a pattern perhaps, but overall the position is objectively different.

In the 1700s you needed page boys to collect your information.
Nowadays, you still need page boys to collect your information because everything is fucking paywalled on the internet (I guess you're right, nothing has changed, even though the tech is clearly there to make it perform better now, unlike the 1700s).

[Anonymous No.16179909]

>>16179901
>a trap
Science is a gay homosexual that dresses in girls clothes?
I knew it.

[Anonymous No.16179910]

>>16179895
Don't you see your falling into an extrapolation trap?
Oh, Jesse Ownens did 100m in 10.2 seconds, Usain Bolt did it in 9.58, No one knows what the future of track running holds maybe one day some will do it in 8!

This is basically how everyone been seeing science and technology in the last 100 years. They've yet to wake up and see the sigmoid curve and see that we're at the tail end of it,

[Anonymous No.16179911]

You can answer that question if you can answer why this was enough.

[Anonymous No.16179913]

>>16179910
>>16179908
Both your examples are limits caused by humans and not nature. There is more to discover, and the only road is by improving ourselves beyond our natural limits, or creating something beyond us

[Anonymous No.16179916]

why is science dying? anyone who ever in the full process of writing a grant till publication know the answer but it's an open secret nobody want to admit. it's endemic in the system.

[Anonymous No.16179918]

>>16179913
Nah reality seems to be wired in such a way that there are limits to knowledge. See incompleteness theorem.
Reality is fucking with us. This is the best that any entity in the universe can do.

[Anonymous No.16179919]

>>16179903
>>16179913
Forgot to reply too

[Anonymous No.16179922]

>>16179918
This entity took at least 100 000 years to understand and describe gravity, which we could see and experiment in every day. There is a better entity out there but we probably won't reach it cause eugenics bad

[Anonymous No.16179929]

>>16179913
>Both your examples are limits caused by humans and not nature.
Wrong.
Human nature is nature.

We act as the inevitable consequence of nature's deterministic path.
We are just a more unusual form of nature compared relatively to previous forms of nature we've observed.

To me, machines are nature are not mutually exclusive. That is a lie that we tell ourselves for some reason. The behaviour of nature before humans was merely a primitive or lazy form of evolution or pathfinding at work. Humans are just a more advanced form of pathfinding in nature's algorithm that it has somehow programmed into itself. Machines are also in that boat.


Nature has merely evolved better pathfinding for it's deterministic will.
Basically, nature and the universe in general is pickle rick.
>HEY LOOK AT ME ANON

[Anonymous No.16179930]

>>16179922
General relativity is not about gravity that we experience. It's about mass bending space-time, we've decomposed everything to the fundamental particles and we've uncovered that the speed of causality is the fastest thing in the universe.
In our hubris we assumed these insights might just be the beginning but they were the end.

We don't need eugenics. We already have outliers, 200 I.Q+ giga freaks like Witten who have tried and came up empty handed. You just want us to go even deeper on the diminishing returns when any smart person sees diminishing returns and pulls out.

[Anonymous No.16179933]

>>16179918
>Reality is fucking with us
In a more literal sense than we can ever really contemplate.

The universe is a really nasty whore that just won't accept "just cuddles and chill".

[Anonymous No.16179934]

>>16179918
To add to it,

Every major advancement in scientific history was preceded by a crutch for the human body. Writing and printing allowed us to go past human memory limits, measuring instruments allow us to see what we can't. The limit has never been nature, it's us

[Anonymous No.16179939]

>>16179922
>There is a better entity out there but we probably won't reach it cause eugenics bad
Actually they won't reach it either because by the time it realises the issue of overpopulation, it's already too late.

We were fucked by 1000AD, son. Turns out Jesus really did a fucking number on us. I don't think he meant it, but it hurts none the less.

[Anonymous No.16179957]

>>16179934
Exactly. We are making insight that goes beyond humanity and the human subjective experience, about causality, time, matter itself and the origin of the entire universe and even the nature of knowing itself and logic.
It's just like there's nothing more to know, no entity can do better.

[Anonymous No.16179959]

>>16179934
I agree, science has always been about us, that is as nature, trying to improve itself.
And like always, that leads to mass extinction. Too much improvement too fast and too much "success" become pyrrhic to that species eventually.

Just look at what happens when an invasive species takes over a habitat it's introduced to. Everything dies. It takes FOREVER for nature to recover because it is very bad at sustaining successful species because normally those species do not adapt to themselves.
We are the first species to truly adapt to ourselves - and already that's failing bad and just making it worse.

God is, dare I say it, clumsy as fuck god dammit. Uncuck your shit already you stupid bitch.
Oh wait we subset, that's right, we're the stupid bitch trying to uncuck it's shit.
How pathetic.

[Anonymous No.16179966]

>>16175424
>We have discovered everything that a person in the 160-200 IQ region could discover.

Most of great scientists were 140-150 IQ midwits doe.

[Anonymous No.16179978]

>>16179966
Exactly, outliers aren't important, you need a huge community of 200+ IQ geniuses collaborating to have advancement.

[Anonymous No.16179980]

>>16179978
we need something that can never exist

[Anonymous No.16179982]

>>16179978
Nah I've seen 200IQ people.
They are literally too autistic to even function sometimes.

[Anonymous No.16179983]

>>16179980
We have the resources and knowledge to build it but ethic retards can't understand sacrifice for a greater good

[Anonymous No.16179985]

>>16179980
According to modern IQ yes.
The old method could manifest this far more easily and was arguably more objective.

[Anonymous No.16179986]

>>16179796
I have seen a lot of criticism of the finance auditing industry, including recent articles in FT.com that they hardly ever find the fraud they are supposed to detect.
I did quality auditing which is a little different. For instance I was employed by the company I audited. I didn't do the stamp of approval thing, to the contrary I found deviations from the standards that had been set. That might be why I was fired in the first reorg that came.

The most amusing thing was that I later audited a financial auditor - and found his work deficient. I left that company and a few years later the CEO was convicted for fraud that the auditor had not noticed.

[Anonymous No.16180001]

>>16179959
God took the first step but it's our job to clean up and create a link between the world of the ideal and practical. Maybe gnostics were right and he was malicious in connecting us, but the harm is already done

[Anonymous No.16180006]

>>16176174
>>using the n word in the most innocuous manner immediately results in a ban.

Wait, really?
Nigger.

[Anonymous No.16180021]

>>16179918
Godel's theorem specifically has to do with the solvability of true statements in an axiomatic system

If your basis for knowledge is whether or not you can prove x+y=z in ZFC, then yes, there's a limit specifically proven to exist in axiomatic systems. You could also just look at what happens when x+y=z in real life and make reasonable inferences. There is literally no identifiable reason why there should be a limit on knowledge. In principle you should be able to know everything there is to know. You just aren't going to always be able to prove it to the satisfaction of the mathematical community within the confines of ZFC, which doesn't necessarily matter.

[Anonymous No.16180132]

>>16179982
That is because society doesn't take care of them, but rather despice them.

[Anonymous No.16180222]

>>16180021
schizophasia

[Anonymous No.16180256]

>>16175232
research industry became an industry, and it was flooded with midwits who want to protect their investments (time, experience)
people who work in labs are not very willing to entertain the notion that their foundational theories are wrong.
the scientific method has become a religion. any idea that is not easily testable is cast aside and ignored, even if it is true. (as an example, consider this "dark matter is made of non-interacting particles" or "dark matter is made of a non-interacting field". there is no way to test either of these hypotheses)

or the terribly ignorant notion that "science has just gotten harder :)"

[Anonymous No.16180259]

>>16180256
We get it, you watch Sabine and you think you're smarter than everyone. Jeez, and you call others midwits, 0 self awareness.
> science has just gotten harder
Yup this is the truth. Newton, Relativity, Quantum Mechanics were low hanging fruits.

[Anonymous No.16180261]

>>16180259
who?

[Anonymous No.16180264]

>>16180261
Oh she'd be right up your alley. A midwit like you
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lu4mH3Hmw2o

[Anonymous No.16180266]

>>16180264
the irony of your posts will be lost on you.

[Anonymous No.16180302]

>>16180222
I would appreciate if you would not waste my time by making me check the little red dot on my tabs by replying to me again

[Anonymous No.16180313]

>>16177246
You are a mongoloid, jews have always contributed to ALL fields, there was never a time that they "took over", if anything, since jews used to be one of the few grounps that always had major education, there are fewer jews in proportion of researchers than ever before.
You just make shit up to agree with your retarded-faggy-nazi shit.

[Anonymous No.16180318]

>>16180313
jews don't take over anything by contributing more to it.
they do it by being nepotistic.

[Anonymous No.16180698]

>>16180256

What's the point to a non-testable idea? You can just state anything. You're really like that Sabine girl, she's a fan of non testable shit like superdeterminism

>dark matter is made of invisible intangible pink unicorns

[Anonymous No.16180731]

Modern science is a direct consequence of industrial engineering and mass production. The west has largely deindustrialized, and new production methods in China are not automated or improvements from previous ones due to the cheaper labor. So there's a regression of industrial power and regression of scientific power follows.

At the most basic level, most science these days is worthless. If you discover some new process, idea or thing it cannot be easily iterated on, built, mass produced or sold commercially. Banks just don't want to approve new untried ideas. Even if you manage to do it, production will be completely globalized and stolen by foreign firms that will legally undercut you. Even if you somehow avoid that, you still have to justify your Thing to millions of people who won't buy it unless if it at one of the two retail monopolies Walmart/Amazon. This is very difficult and often, usually impossible to do.

Now let's say you've only discovered how something works THEORETICALLY. No company, bank or investors will ever pay you to prototype your idea unless it can be used to sell dish soap on google. If your product is not a financial product nobody cares. Economic science has expanded over a hundred times due to AI, the Internet and computers as a result because economic science makes the most money the fastest without any capital investments.

[Anonymous No.16180745]

>>16175232
Dysgenics + ever increasing government regulation.

[Anonymous No.16180752]

>>16179599
>The technology we have now is the limit
Good for you, now you can shut up about it and fuck off. Nothing else left to add after all.

[Anonymous No.16180758]

>>16179613
>This is the time to start implementing global socialism.
(you)
>The entire world economy is based on the lie that technology progresses
lol no, the entire economy is a government controlled debt spiral. Inflation is directly caused by government as an additional tax. The government constantly overspends in order to bribe people for their votes.
The world economy IS socialist more than half your income is stolen by taxes, that's why things are getting worse and have been for nearly a century.

If we killed every socialist on earth right now the world would be a better place.

[Anonymous No.16180762]

>>16179765
Dysgenic immigration isn't the only thing causing IQ to plummet.

[Anonymous No.16180764]

>>16179811
Government made problem. State runs education, backs companies that loan out student finances, so they give cash to anyone.

[Anonymous No.16180767]

>>16179781
Far simpler.
Dumb people have more kids than smart people. = More dumb people next generation.

We'd need eugenics immediately to stop this. Good luck persuading socialists to allow that, as they want the direct opposite (see stuff like welfare)

[Anonymous No.16180786]

>>16179756
>>16179781
>>16179766
https://sci-hub.se/https://doi.org/10.1016/j.intell.2016.10.002

1-2IQ points/decade = Africa teir in 300 years. Civilization will collapse from lack of civil engineers (~115IQ). We can already see cops no longer operate satisfactorily, that's because they're a standard deviation (~15IQ) above average IQ. 1SD above average IQ in the 1880s was 130. Now it's 115.

The tail ends of the bellcurve are heavily impacted by small changes in avg IQ. When your population loses 15IQ points, people with 145 IQ become as rare as 160s. People with 160IQ stop existing.

School teachers today have 115 IQ. In the 1880s they had 130. Today that's a university prof. Shit's totally fucking fucked mate, big time.

This civilization will collapse, there's so little time left. Perhaps there's a tiny chance given we've access to genetic engineering but I doubt it. Not the end of humanity, just like romans and all the other civilizations there will be others. But we'll see at least 1000 years of dark ages before our genetics are restored to the point we can do complex civilization again.

I recon we'll break the cycle next time: Free market genetic engineering = eugenics program that works. Imagine trying that now tho, trying to convince subhuman socalists to both have a free market (antithetical to socialism) and improving people's genetics (antithetical to socialism).

Socialism is definitely a civilizational poison resulting from dysgenic mutants trying to destroy humanity out of spite.

[Anonymous No.16180857]

>>16179852
>Before the jews literally mindfucked the US for the sake of ethno-religious objectives.
ftfy

[Anonymous No.16180866]

>>16179939
>Turns out Jesus really did a fucking number on us
what the fuck are you talking about? He had/has nothing to do with the populations of India or China or Indonesia or Bangladesh or any of those places being ten times what they should be and Western NGOs largely run by jews are the ones pulling African excess births into the western world

[Anonymous No.16181343]

>>16175232
>Why is science dying?
I'm sure shoving women and melanated individuals into it en masse has nothing to do with it

[Anonymous No.16182168]

>>16181343

[Anonymous No.16183189]

>>16181343
They're actually giving literal retards science degrees these days

[Anonymous No.16183373]

>>16182168
>one man in the entire room
>is the only one doing work
Speaks for itself, really.

[Anonymous No.16183402]

>>16180786
>I recon we'll break the cycle next time
You reckon. This cycle might be our last chance though.

[Anonymous No.16184389]

>>16179756
>>16180786
I always knew the Flynn effect was absolute horse shit. No fucking DUH you would see slight increases in general intelligence due to general access to generalized information, but you'd have to be a fucking RETARD not to see how breeding/eugenics comes into play here, over a given span of time.

What, do people honestly think that all classes in any given school will be equivalently bright and exceptional? Looool.

[Anonymous No.16184398]

>De-Industrialize
>Turns out you need some access to industry in order to perform R&D
>Be surprised when Unis with no access to research partners struggle to produce new tech

Also
>Fight WW2/Korean/Vietnam
>MASSIVE R&D everywhere
>People literally make careers of taking War R&D and applying it to the civilian sectors

[Anonymous No.16184442]

>>16179599
>We’ve picked all the low hanging fruit
Idiots have been saying that for centuries. You're not even close to anything at all. Paragraphs and not a single word worth reading.

[Anonymous No.16184507]

>>16184389
The neocortex is something like an autoencoder, which takes a million of pixels and sums it up in a thousand pieces of much more meaningful data that represent the original pixels. When you have it, you deal with abstract terms, when you don't have it, you deal with the raw complexity, and you are limited to the thousand inputs. You are totally overwhelmed by the comolexity of even the simplest thing, you get high IQ. No wonder such a dramatic progress was possible in such a short amount of time, it's easy to break something. There is no way that a genuine improvement could happen that fast, you can only break something that fast.

[Anonymous No.16184791]

>>16184507
>There is no way that a genuine improvement could happen that fast, you can only break something that fast.
Well ain’t that a nice/wise statement. Too bad the human race is stupid, eh?

[Anonymous No.16185403]

>>16175232
atheism is whats killing it

[Anonymous No.16185513]

>>16184791
People are stupid because of the misguided attempts to make them intelligent. High IQ (especially large vocabulary) is a sign of brain damage. A powerful neocortex sums up everything into fewer labels, so you can speak a language with a limited vocabulary. (but you can do so adequately, not because your world is so limited.)

[Anonymous No.16185515]

>>16185513
>>16184791
People are stupid because of the misguided attempts to make them intelligent. High IQ (especially large vocabulary) is a sign of brain damage. A powerful neocortex sums up everything into fewer labels, so you can speak a language with limited vocabulary. (but you can do so adequately, not because your world is so limited.)

[Anonymous No.16185533]

>>16175232
All the easy shit has been discovered already.
You can't walk around your backyard looking for rocks to analyze and name to become a world leading geologist anymore.
Now it means spending years of your life researching microvibrations of magma chambers to write a novel report on their synchronicity with ground water pseudotides. Or some other made up bullshit I could come up with.

[Anonymous No.16185534]

>>16175232
The biggest problems are the amount of resources need, red tape around actually experimenting, and how long it takes to educate a scientist

[Anonymous No.16185555]

>>16185534
This too. Can't go into space or develop powerful propulsion cause we need to "save the environment", can't research genetics cause muh eugenics, can't do either cause there's no funding for it. Politics fags will twist this into an argument for abandoning the current system to adopt theirs, but the real problem is human nature and we won't move further till we fundamentally alter it.

[Anonymous No.16185601]

>>16180745
This is dumb because the Romans did not actually care much for novel scientific research or technology.
They were good civic engineers, but not interested in technological advancement.

[Anonymous No.16185654]

>>16179599
The "low hanging fruit" argument never sat well with me.
What makes Newton's calculus "low hanging fruit" for example? Simply the fact that subsequent discoveries built upon it? How does that make the original discovery easier or of lesser quality then? Have you ever really sat down and thought about what the shit you're saying means or are you just mindlessly repeating it? Was Newton the only guy working on physics and math and that's why he got to gobble up credit for something that was childishly simple and that you definitely would have invented if you were alive then?

[Anonymous No.16186182]

>>16179756
Meme have become reality loool

[Anonymous No.16186193]

>>16179599
>>16185654
Especially ironic considering Newton and Leibniz's work on calculus follows at least 1000 years of previous work starting by Archimedes' iterative approximations of pi, going by infinite series and culminating into the infinitesimal. But scientific progress does look like only picking fruits when you think the credited discoverers pulled this shit out their ass and ignore the millions of predecessors tending the tree without knowing when fruit will drop.

[Anonymous No.16187106]

>>16186182
yeah, that meme is old af, predates the creation of /pol/ even, i remember seeing it on 4chon.net

[Anonymous No.16187245]

>>16175232
The jew found out that the main metric in academia is number of references from the paper and they abused the hell out of it.

[Anonymous No.16187310]

>>16175232
The civilizations that did most scientific research are declining and heading towards collapse or irrelevance, and will be replaced by something more lively in a few centuries, and perhaps most of the things that could be figured out by humans at their current level of intelligence have already been figured out, meaning that further progress will require human enhancement.

[Anonymous No.16187545]

>>16175232
rigour is dying
also people care more about their jobs and institutions than science.

[Anonymous No.16188523]

>>16175232

[Anonymous No.16189108]

>>16175445
>Reduction of average IQ of people working in science.
Exactly this.
Prior to the 1970s science was led by a small number of people who were highly motivated and
very talented. Because you had to have those qualities in order to work in science. But after that the universities opened their doors to midwits ( and lowits ) who saw "science" as nothing more than a meal ticket ( Gee thanks student loans! ). University standards dropped. No longer did you have to meet unyielding criteria to graduate, now Universities made it near impossible to fail so that sweet money kept rolling in.
The flood of graduates saw massive increase in competition for funding and jobs.The truly talented and motivated were effectively zerg rushed aside by the hordes of modern day barbarians who made a career out of vomiting out useless research and curb stomping anyone who displayed any sign of originality and creativity as a potential threat to their golden egg.
People like Darwin had to contend with many detractors in their time, but if Darwin was alive today he would be faced with one thousand times as many, and would be drowned out through sheer noise alone.

[Anonymous No.16189127]

>>16189108
I don't think so. The inversion of what it means to be intelligent is the root cause, anything else is only a result. Feynman already complained about this, so it's nothing new, but it may have spread into other fields.

[Anonymous No.16189214]

>>16188523
amazing how inversely proportionate those two graphs are

[Anonymous No.16189247]

>>16179599
>Low hanging fruit
Bullcrap. For all we know, there are whole undiscovered fields we're ignorant of. And I'm sure there are fields full of errs and unknowns, particle physics/QED/QCD for example. No one says it/dares to go against the grain though, and I've noticed that nowadays dissenting voices have become less, for fear of losing livelihoods. Whereas back in the day, there were multiple ways of thinking with usually, right thoughts somewhere in all of them. We're lacking daring thoughts that may be wrong.

[Anonymous No.16189250]

>>16189247
Also, paper push culture/diminishing return as mentioned by others.

[Anonymous No.16189581]

>>16189108
Very true. I wonder how many STEM majors are paying for their college football recruitment. LOL

[Anonymous No.16190386]

>>16189581
the football team is the only department on campus that pays it's own bills except on a few campuses of a few schools with popular basketball teams. everyone except the football team are mendicants

[Anonymous No.16191708]

>>16190386
>everyone except the football team are mendicants
Scientists only ever publish useless material, if they ever discover anything valuable it doesn't get published, instead they run off and find a was to exploit their discovery for personal gain. Thats why read scientific publications is a stupid thing to do, you're guaranteed to be reading something useless

[Anonymous No.16192029]

>>16191708
See a concrete example with lithium iron baterries, they patented it, then for whatever fucking reason refused to licence it, and wouldn't make it, and that's a major reason why china dominates us with electric vehicles and batteries, as they are literally 20 years ahead in it, with electric trucks and busses commonly available.

[Anonymous No.16192733]

>>16179599
The ability to use big words and write paragraphs correctly does not make you smart. All verbal IQ and no real intelligence.

You have never been anywhere near a graduate department. In fact from such a moronic comment it is clear you don't even have undergraduate-level knowledge of anything.

[Anonymous No.16192911]

>>16189247
>and I've noticed that nowadays dissenting voices have become less, for fear of losing livelihoods
Therein lies the issue. People who used to do science back then were:
A) Born into money and could afford to just spend their time and money on doing science
B) Earned enough money doing other more profitable stuff and then decided to spend that money on science
C) Did something else for money and science was more of a hobby or simply just another thing going for them.
or finally D) Paid by the king/emperor/government/military to develop science for the benefit of the said king/emperor/military so they can have the bigger stick to beat their opponent with. War was an everyday occurance after all.

In other words, their livehood didn't depend on science directly or in case D) it was assured because it was neccessary. Thus they didn't give two shits about "academia" and "peer opinion". They could voice whatever they wanted to voice and say whatever they wanted to say (unless you go directly against the Chruch/your local leading religion of course).

If you want to be a proper scientist today, make a lot of money first by doing something else so you can afford all the toys you need for science, then do science and try to network with other people like that. Not people that do science because it's their job/career, those people will do anything/submit to anyone to protect that job/career, but people that do it because they want to AND they can afford to, just like you.

[Anonymous No.16193037]

>>16191708
The paper or even the patent do not contain the 100x or the 200x fumbling needed to get the results. And as such its common practice.
So what do that mean?
It means that once you patent, a larger company got genuine reasons to hire you in some capacity to avoid paying for that 100x fumble needed to get the initial results needed for R&D.


Which brings us to the actual second stupid:
>>16192029
If you got access to a lab in USA or EU, you most likely do not have any access to the downstream production line. If you read comics about the 1940s to the 1980s, a common subplot would be a engineer or even a janitor taking a prototype home for any number of reasons.
That is going to be very different when all you get in your state is a computer lab, some CAD, maybe you can get access to a real lab via university, and getting to your production line in a factory requires going to wherever in SEA. The Chinaman still lives in the 1940s to 1980s comic.
The blatant disregard for patents is just a minor thing in the grand scheme of things.

[Anonymous No.16193040]

lack of testosterone.

[Anonymous No.16193546]

>>16193037
The point is they could have licenced it, and get money from it, but patents never work in the way their authors and supporters intend.

[Anonymous No.16193781]

>>16193546
No, fuck off. You don't even argue your case.
You live rent free in some schinzo's headspace because you can't visualize WHY the west is failing long term. And you go "muh patents" instead of talking about ANY of the logistics that is leading to Dutch Disease possible killing the competivnes of the entire EU long term.

[Anonymous No.16193784]

Science funding sucks. High risk - high reward funding is rare nowadays. You get funding for doing the same low risk - low reward shit for decades, because the funding parties see that you have churned out 20 papers of the same topic

[Anonymous No.16193791]

Also, when governments increase their funding to universities, universities hire more secretaries, coordinators, meaningless managers etc. Only a fraction of that money goes into hiring quality researchers

[Anonymous No.16193815]

>>16193781
Because I was talking about patents, and not Dutch Disease. Dutch disease is obviously caused by loans, which boost those who currently got loans at the expense of everyone else. But you can see only the gain that the loans provide, and don't realize that the reast of the economy has to pay for it.

[Anonymous No.16193828]

>>16193781
Because I was talking about patents, and not Dutch Disease. Dutch Disease is obviously caused by loans, which boost those who currently got loans at the expense of everyone else. But you can see the boost that loans provide, and not that the rest of the economy has to pay for it.

[Anonymous No.16193831]

>>16193781
Because I was talking about patents, and not Dutch Disease. Dutch Disease is obviously caused by loans, which boost those who currently got loans at the expense of everyone else. But you can only see the boost that loans provide, and not that the rest of the economy has to pay for it.

[Anonymous No.16193837]

>>16193815
>>16193828
>>16193831
You are in the EU with a lob. Your main manufacture is located in Malaysia. That means you fly down there and stay there for a week or a month 3-5 times a year.

So that means you read field literature and try out new patented methods, and get some industrial samples. But you can't get it over to Malaysia to actually do proper test runs. What that means is that you either have to PAY the patent holder to go over to Malaysia to setup a trial run, to avoid the fumbling of implementation, or you have to do a lot of preemptive lab work and then fly over for A LOT LONGER to get a trial implement going, and then paying patent fees.

Meanwhile the Chinaman only has to get on the train to where the chemical manufacture super site is, show his ID, and get to work.
He can also have has lab as part of the manufacture site, making it even less of a hassle to do basic in field R&D. The Chinaman not caring about patents is just a bonus by that point, because you still need to create a parallel implementation to do manufacture.
>Dutch disease is obviously caused by loans
Then explain India, which is a textbook Dutch Disease case alongside Singapore.

[Anonymous No.16193928]

>>16193837
>So that means you read field literature and try out new patented methods,
Nobody actually reads patents. Why do you have a site in malaysia if you can't make it work and why can the chinaman make it work without fumbling?


I don't know about that specific cases, and i don't see why anyone would make them "textbook examples". But in general, loans shift the supply and demand in such a way that on average there is always a shortage of money, jobs, and customers. It's essentially the complete inverse of the British Empire which encouraged savings instead. (I'm not entirely sure how the gold standard plays into this, I guess the resulting gold flows must have made it more obvious what is the good idea. )

[Anonymous No.16193946]

>>16193928
>Gold standard
As a M0 exchange medium, it still has no answer to M1, M2 or M3 or even M4. The only benefit to the gold standard are IF transactions has to be done via M0, then the transaction do not happen with a inflated exchange medium.

Then again
>Dutch Disease
>"Why do you have a site in malaysia"
Pick one.

[Anonymous No.16193958]

>>16193946
Irrelevant, gold standard was only a side note not important for the main argument.

You brough the Dutch Disease, don't compkain now that I duscuss both.

[Anonymous No.16193961]

>>16193946
Irrelevant, gold standard was only a side note not important for the main argument.

You brought in the Dutch Disease, don't complain now that I discuss both.

[Anonymous No.16193963]

>>16193946
Irrelevant, gold standard was only a side note not important for the main argument.

You brought in Dutch Disease, don't complain now that I discuss both.

[Anonymous No.16194008]

>>16193963
So if your company has NO manufacture capability inside the continent.... where do you go for manufacture? Because there is still a lot of jobs where maintaining control of manufacture is important, such as the entire medical field or semiconductors.
This is why you have manufacture in Malaysia, China, or even possible somewhere developed in South America. Setting up shop in the Baltics or even Poland used to be popular, but they got developed economies by the late 00s, meaning that is "too expensive" in todays globalized world.

So the problem again boils down to not attacking the argument.
The "chinaman make it work without fumbling" is not what is stated. What is stated is that the Chinaman has NO LOGISTICS needed to get a trial run of his chemical or manufacture industrial production lab. The Chinaman can get prototypes since he lives in the area of manufacture. The Chinaman can literally walk in on site to buy unused factory space to do test runs. Meanwhile the Dutchman has to book a flight, do the logistics, hire a interpreter, and then most likely not staying long enough to do further work.

And the Taiwan man in Shenzhen can literally buy off shelf overproduction from actual fucking outlets, and do prototyping.
Meanwhile a Dutch man in a similar position would take a few months of making requests and waiting for prototypes in mail.


>India as a textbook case of Dutch Disease
Instead of moving up the value chain
India tried to move DOWN the value chain by skipping primary and secondary industry.

>gold standard
By failing to understand how inflation and deflation works via M1 to M5, you can't argue on what the gold standard do to a economy.
Its also the same mechanism(M1 to M5 money supply inflation) that you suggest is causing the Dutch Disease, when the Dutch Disease is textbook defined by moving from Primary or Secondary Industry to Tertiary Service via IT and CAD.

[Anonymous No.16194071]

>>16177564
no, DEI is natural continuation of the atheist religion. Any new fad in democracy stems from the merchants and the bureaucratic agents, and they go along the flow, not planning some 4dchess like atheist chuds keep fantasizing.
Right at the beginning they were vilifying monarchies, then they started their self aggrandizing narrative of industrialization, then colonization, then they created 2 world wars, then they started mass consumerism thanks to feeding the peasants with industrial goods, then they started decolonization and now they finally found the perfect match between the mercantile activity and the atheist cravings for virtue signaling: wokism.
This is thanks to women being educated with bullshit studies, women controlling the bureaucracy, women controlling the HR department in megacrops and women being the major consumer in democracy.
Wokism is the ideal life of the atheist and woman: tons of consumerism and at the same time tons of false introspection, because they are the biggest hypocrites on the planet. Merchants and Bureaucrats and Women have no capacity for criticism, which makes them the best candidate for running the show.

[Anonymous No.16194082]

>>16179613
>>Building infrastructure and factories around the world to create abundance and focus on the art.
that's called hedonism, and this has be done for centuries

[Anonymous No.16194086]

>>16179717
>socialist economies are based on real things with value like goods and services.
leftism is based on the deification of the caste of civil servants who live to siphon money from the population

[Anonymous No.16194090]

>>16194008
Are you a bot?

[Anonymous No.16194093]

>>16194090
Are you anon?
Where is your 1000 sign rebuttal? Or attempt at one?

[Anonymous No.16194115]

>>16194093
What do you mean by a 1000 sign rebuttal?

[Anonymous No.16194120]

>>16194115
Then I rest my case, anon.

[Anonymous No.16195285]

>>16194071