[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/sci/ - Science & Math

View post   
File: 20 KB, 315x450, 1279952826346.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1615588 No.1615588 [Reply] [Original]

hey /sci/ i was wondering, does anyone have a possible solution to the global economic catastrophy that is called capitalism? any thoughts on a way we can truely make this a better place for all beings? yes im from /b/ but i also browse this board as well and i thought a bunch of intellectuals would be able to help me figure the answer out.

>> No.1615595

Communism. You do the job you enjoy and get payed same as everyone else.

But communism can't work because of greed.

>> No.1615602

Go back to /new/ asshole.

>> No.1615607

>>1615595
thank you! ive tried to explain this to americunts but they just say its a failed system, its only the leaders who failed, i guess the greed is now on capitalistic grounds. or always has been

>> No.1615605

>>1615595
Post-scarcity.
Oh it will be glorious.
And we will be around to see it, even barring the life-extension.

>> No.1615608

>>1615595
Well duh.
Nobody wants to work hard their entire life and make as much as a barber.

>>1615588
Yeah, it's called accepting reality and dealing with it. If you don't like it move to, say, Cuba.

>> No.1615610

>>1615607
It's not the leaders who failed, people fail, they get greedy, it's a self corrupting system because we're humans.

>> No.1615618

Yes OP. instead of either of the extremes (Capitalist/Socialist), why not settle for the middle? I'm pretty sure Canada is a mixed market economy, and they're doing very well right now (Economy wise)

>> No.1615624

>>1615608
>Well duh.
Nobody wants to work hard their entire life and make as much as a barber.

As I said, greed.
What's wrong with making enough money to live a normal life with your family? What's wrong with working on your dreamjob and still have this? Nothing except knowing you don't have more than someone.

>> No.1615625

>>1615588

Socialism, or at least a capitalistic government with heavily socialistic tendencies. Mainly, free, public housing, national healthcare, free basic meals and water.

>> No.1615629
File: 72 KB, 734x404, 1259215509428.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1615629

>be a pot grower for next couple of decades
>save up over five million
>buy work-bots and teach and upload designs for smelters and buildings and infrastructure
>get them to build a huge city with factories underground to save space and to be self-sufficient
>declare to be a new country
>be a successful country with people that go into my country absolutely love it
>within 30 years all other countries have converted to similar systems
In the very rare occasion that I do this, everyone from /sci/ is welcome.

>> No.1615630

>>1615618
yeah that is the solution ive been thinking. im actualy from canada. but what im asking is how do we go about doing this? changing the most economicaly and miltarily powerfull country into the true democracy it once stood for?

>> No.1615635

>>1615618

socialism IS the middle ground between capitalism and communism

>> No.1615638

Well everyone. I laugh at all of you because we live in a capitalist Country. It's not going to change anyways.
There's nothing any of you can do.

>> No.1615640

yes and all you would have to do is put your part to contribute to society, although the problem with that is theres no freedom of speech usualy, freedom of the press, or talking back, leaving corruption to do as it pleases from greed.

>> No.1615650

>>1615640
wait im thinking comunism, is there much of a difference? i thought democracy stood in the middle of the 2 powers?

>> No.1615652

>>1615635

Ah, Norway is a socialist country, Canada is nothing Norway, yet. But thank you for the correction.

>> No.1615657

Both systems are plagued by greed.

In a communist state, people get greedy and annoyed with the fact that they aren't making all the money they think they deserve for their job.
Usually it ends in revolution.


In a capitalist state people get greedy and want more money, even if they're already billionaires (save for a few people). They disregard the poor and continue manipulating loopholes to build themselves a monolith of wealth.

>> No.1615658

>>1615640
HAHAHAHAHAHA. You people are just sad. You've had it so good growing up in North America.
Don't even know what the rest of the world is like.

>> No.1615664

Yes, communism works.

No, America will never change from a capitalist country. Our egos are too big. We went through a fucking cold war to oppose communism, and there's no way those dick-measuring politicians would even consider communism.

>> No.1615665

>>1615652
canada is a democracy i do beleive, the states just make us out to be socialists so they can proffit off of capitalistsic greed. and what u mean
>canada is nothing norway?
i think we are both succeptible and good countrys.

>> No.1615666

>>1615595
>>1615608
Communism isn't about everybody getting the same. As Karl Marx stated: "From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs."

And please note that that statement debunks your myth that everyone will be lazy and still get paid the same as anobody else.

>> No.1615669

>>1615650

Democracy is an electoral system, not an economic system. You can have a democratic government with a communist economy, or a communist government with a capitalist economy. Neither of those would work very well though.

>> No.1615671

>>1615664
>Yes, communism works.
WTF am i reading.jpg?

>> No.1615674

>>1615658

i don't really know which side you are on or what you are trying to say

but I'm from the US and all I know is that my lifestyle requires a fuck ton more than one 7 billionth of the world resources so any kind of global socialism or fair sharing is going to suck for me.

>> No.1615675

>>1615657
>In a communist state
In the communistic society there is no state. You'd realize this if you'd actually read about the things you criticize (protip: read The State and Revolution, by Vladimir Lenin).

>> No.1615679

>>1615658
no... i come from a ghetto where i had no food or shelter, my father tried to kill me and my brother and my stepfather used all our money for crack, beleive me i havent had it as good as you think. i have an open mind to all the rest of what goes on in the world. im looking for a way to fix the plague that makes the western hemisphere rich while the eastern remains poor and ridden with violance and hatred.

>> No.1615681

Canada: A democratic, mixed market country
China: A communist, socialist market country
United states: A democratic, capitalist market country

Get the drift, people?

>> No.1615682

>>1615666
first of all, karl marx did not say that, Louis Blanc did.
second, communism is based on inherently flawed reasoning that sees only labor as producing wealth.

>> No.1615685

>>1615681
In what way is China a communist republic besides the fact that they claim to be?

>> No.1615686

>>1615679
also a diabetic whom has seen his freinds die at the hands of gang violance and poverty.

>> No.1615683

>>1615671
Look at China.

>> No.1615690

>>1615681
i think im getting the picture

>> No.1615691

>>1615674
Where that guy is coming from is this,
People here are whining about capitalism while in some countries, people get their hands cut off for picking up something without the intention of buying it.
This thread appears to be just a bunch of angst kids viewing America as scum filled with fat-cats and greedy tyrants.

>> No.1615693

>>1615691
>Implying America isn't run by greedy tyrants (like the rest of the world)

>> No.1615695

>>1615665

canada is a constitutional monarchy.

and the US is a republic.

this is all pretty standard information; they have democratic systems in place but they are not necessarily democracies.

>> No.1615697

>>1615682
What the fuck, are you serious? Karl Marx sure as hell said it, even though he wasn't the one to coin the term.

OMG! Go read a book, like Das Kapital, The Communist Maniofesto or something. In no way are we (marxist-leninists) claiming that labour is nothing but the production of wealth.

>> No.1615706

THE SINGULARITY!


ROBOT OVERLORDS FOR EVERYONE!

>> No.1615705

>>1615691
you cant say that if the greed was liberated from the american politics it wouldnt be better for a lot of countrys? i mean since it is the most powerfull superpower and controlls a good sum of the worlds money changing it would have drastic effects on all nations.

>> No.1615699
File: 53 KB, 550x366, face_unbelievable.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1615699

>>1615605
>Post-scarcity.
>my face

>> No.1615703

>>1615693
>implying you know what you're talking about.

>> No.1615708

They both have their respective problems Op, awesome video related.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWTFG3J1CP8

>> No.1615707
File: 12 KB, 250x341, mises.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1615707

Problem, socialism?

>> No.1615712
File: 9 KB, 405x331, freedomincome.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1615712

>communism works

no

Communist countries excel at nothing but poverty.

>> No.1615715

Well OP, you have the freedom to say that you hate this Country.
That's actually quite a bit, more than most countries in this world.

>> No.1615719

>global economic catastrophy that is called capitalism?


you mean the system that's given the western world the highest standard of living ever known?

>> No.1615720

>>1615708
lol nice

>> No.1615721

>>1615712
Well, duh! Of course citizens of countries with no or little tax (aka economic freedom) have higher incomes. What's interesting is the social welfare.

>> No.1615724

>Post-scarcity.

hahahahahahahahahahahah

>> No.1615725

>>1615719
The romans said the same thing about slavery.

>> No.1615728

>>1615721
>>1615721

social welfare is directly related to wealth.

>> No.1615730

When was the last time America had a truly capitalist economy?

>> No.1615729

>>1615719
for the wealthy you mean.

>> No.1615735

>>1615728
Source?

>> No.1615736

Whats wrong with capitalism?

Everything you use in you're everyday life would not exist if it weren't for capitalism.

You can say that capitalism is creative destruction.
The free market demands that everything old must always be replaced by something new and better to keep up with competition. This sole argument that capitalism is the motor of our society and drives science and technology forward should convince any rational thinking person.

Communism on the other hand i based on, as you say, everyone doing their "dream jobs" and getting the same amount of money for it. The first flaw of this argument is that everyone can't have their dream job. Their is only a limited need of barbers and if the amount of barbers exceed the demand for barbers, the industry will demand higher educated barbers which in turn will demand higher salarys.

Please read some books.

>> No.1615738

its only u guys i can come to with these problems, with /b/ its like one big mosh pit of people enforcing their opinions on religion,nationality,same sex marriage, politics, and pretty much anything u can think of other than the original question asked

>> No.1615739

>>1615725
The Romans also said having a standardized military was critical to defense? What's your point?

Are you arguing that Capitalist countries don't enjoy higher standards of living both now and historically?

>> No.1615741

>>1615736
>Please read some books.
Yeah, please do. You clearly haven't read Marx/Engels/Lenin since you have no idea what communism is about.

Also,
>implying money is the only motivation

>> No.1615746

>>1615736
well it can be corrupted just as easily as comunism i mean, im just more for equality rather than competition of free enterprise, and you see how the poor population is treated as slaves in that country, i grew up as one of them and was called lazy by begnine republicans. i just want more of a mixed market like what canada has

>> No.1615745

>>1615739
My point is that just because the the richest countries are as rich as never before doesn't mean it can't get any better with a new system.

PS
I used wealth as a measure of success since that's what you capitalists do.

>> No.1615744

And here all along, I thought /sci/ would be different from /new/.

>> No.1615747
File: 47 KB, 725x566, life-satisfaction-and-real-gdp-per-capita-pew.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1615747

>>1615735

>> No.1615756

>>1615745
>doesn't mean it can't get any better with a new system.

maybe but the system is not communism.

>> No.1615759
File: 64 KB, 583x426, democracy_gdp.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1615759

>>1615747

>> No.1615760

Any society that runs solely on personal gain and money will ultimately fail.

>> No.1615762
File: 52 KB, 468x346, rule-of-law-and-gdp1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1615762

>>1615759

>> No.1615764

>>1615747
Who performed the study, how did they do it, and how do they define 'life satisfaction'?

>> No.1615765

>>1615760

[citation needed]

>> No.1615766

>>1615759
The fuck's with Botswana?

>> No.1615772

>>1615764
http://bpp.wharton.upenn.edu/betseys/papers/Happiness.pdf

>> No.1615781

>>1615756
>but the system is not communism.
And you base that on what? Soviet? North Korea? China?

>> No.1615783

>>1615765
[citation approved]

>> No.1615785

>>1615772
Thanks, I'll try to read it sometime soon.

>> No.1615790

>>1615781
>do you base it on historical examples of communist countries


Yes

>> No.1615801

>>1615790
In what way were those cummunist countries (classless and stateless)?

You argument is invalid since you imply that we communists advocate dictatorship with elements of socialism.

>> No.1615817

>>1615801

Your argument is invalid because of fallacy.

No true Scotsman to be exact.

What communists advocate and what actually occurs have no relationship.

this is /sci/ lrn2empircal evidence
.

>> No.1615834

>>1615817
You cannot apply true scotsman to this, since we have a clear view on what communism is (the classless and stateless society being controlled by the proletarians).

>> No.1615849

>>1615834

>we have a clear view on what communism is

no you have a clear theoretical model of what you want communism to be.

I on the other hand have clear empirical evidence of what communism is and it renders your model incorrect.

>> No.1615883

>>1615741
And you haven't read Mises, Böhm-Bawerk or Hayek since you think communism works.

>> No.1615905

My TOP lulz

Job Creation
Higher Education
Over population
Global Recession/WARMING??
People, in general
AIDS
HD
Premium

Superlatives