/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.16131202]

Why is contemporary medical science so obsessed with murdering people?
Why would anyone in their right mind trust their health to a profession that is determined to commit as much murder as it can possibly get away with?

[Anonymous No.16131275]

>>16131202
The point of the profession is to minimise suffering. Sometimes that requires a little murder. And any non-zero amount of murder is by derfinition as much as it can possibly get away with.

[Anonymous No.16131363]

>>16131275
If that were the point, everyone should be sterilized so once the current crop of humans die off, there would be no more suffering.

[Anonymous No.16131367]

what do christcucks think about this? isn't that soul loved by God, doesn't it have a right to exist?

[Anonymous No.16131371]

>>16131202
Maybe doctors are tired of their patients suffering unnecessary. They see it every day unlike people who chimp out when something is against their holy book.

[Anonymous No.16131387]

>>16131202
Why would anyone trust a posting with an obviously manipulated image?

[Anonymous No.16131400]

>>16131387
I don't know if it's manipulated, but it is sensationalised. Obviously, euthanasia is not done without consent. I know euthanasia for reasons of mental health is legal in the Netherlands due to another high-profile case (don't know about Canada, though). It is only possible after all other options are exhausted, and has a long waiting time. I think also a required second opinion. And even then it's done very rarely.
So, assuming that euthanasia for reasons of interminable mental anguish is legal in Canada, then that means the daughter has chosen to end her life with assistance and has gone through the appropriate legal channels to arrange it. And then the article chooses to focus on how the father feels about it and emphasises her physical good health. But neither of those things factors into it. We can furthermore speculate that the sort of parent who would step to a sensationalist tabloid rag in order to get his way in complete defiance of his daughter's wishes may be more than a little controlling, and may well have inflicted some trauma that ironically contributed to the daughter's decision.
The juxtaposition with the other article is of course intended to suggest a false equivalence. Nothing is manipulated here but the reader.

[Anonymous No.16131411]

>>16131275
>>16131363
>obsession with minimizing suffering leading to a death cult
So science is just buddhism?

[Anonymous No.16131413]

>>16131411
whatever humans are saying, it always comes down to one very simple thing. their group is perfect and should exist, and anyone who's not in their group is wrong and shouldn't exist. the model is that easy. everything else is bullshit added on top.

[Anonymous No.16131416]

>>16131202
So you prefer a suicidal person to blast his head off with a shotgun instead of a peaceful needle death? Well I would prefer it too if you were the one who has to do the clean up of what is left behind.

[Anonymous No.16131422]

>>16131416
some of them are suicidal because of a bunch of shit that you are not willing to change, so it is eugenics that way. you kill them because you don't want to change because you think that's bad. so you think they should die

[Saint. Barkon No.16131423]

>>16131422

[Anonymous No.16131424]

>>16131416
I would prefer to have as little suicidal people around as possible. Part of that is total negative connotation with suicide; a state-assisted program undermines that.

[Anonymous No.16131426]

>>16131424
I think you'll find that assisting people with suicide leads to fewer suicidal people around.

[Anonymous No.16131428]

>>16131426
Funny, but no it doesn't. Social contagions are a hell of a thing.

[Saint. Barkon No.16131436]

WHO DAT

[Anonymous No.16131447]

>>16131367
>isn't that soul loved by God, doesn't it have a right to exist?
Yes. Do you think it's Christians advocating for murdering children and babies?

[Anonymous No.16131450]

>>16131447
Yes. Killing embryoes and foetuses is the domain the irreligious, once they're born, it's the Christians who revel in their deaths.

[Anonymous No.16131451]

>>16131416
>peaceful needle death
that was never a thing
it's so bad that they try to get illegal drugs for executions to kill people because no drug company wants to be labeled as a company that make drugs to kill people

[Anonymous No.16131454]

>>16131451
And all that just to avoid using a rope or firing squad

[Anonymous No.16131455]

>>16131202
Eugenicists like Gates run the show.

[Anonymous No.16131461]

>>16131426
The easier and more accessible suicide becomes, the lower the bar will be for people to consider it a valid option. The quicker the process is for obtaining it, the more likely it will be for people to do it on impulse while in a bad state of mind. Walk-in painless suicide will cause an incredible increase in suicide among people who otherwise may have gotten past it.

[Anonymous No.16131463]

>>16131450
>once they're born, it's the Christians who revel in their deaths.
In what way?

[Anonymous No.16131466]

>>16131451
They pretty much just use something to knock you out first and then something that paralyses you so your heart gives out

[Anonymous No.16131468]

>>16131461
And therefore fewer suicidal people.

[Anonymous No.16131476]

>>16131463
Poor children deserve to starve, no one is entitled to hand-outs. Maybe mum should've gotten a real job, or just kept her legs closed. The kid should suffer for it, really. Same as everyone who doesn't fit the mold. Bully them until they kill themselves. And a couple hundred perforated toddlers every year is just the price we have have to pay for ARE FREEDUMBS! USA! USA!

[Anonymous No.16131477]

>>16131468
And why is that inherently good? Just about everyone has suicidal thoughts at some point in their lives, most people get over it and improve their circumstances. What is so inherently bad about thinking of suicide that we should encourage anyone who does to go through with it? What do we gain?

[Anonymous No.16131479]

>>16131476
You seem to be confusing Christians with Republicans. Christians run and participate in churches that engage in charity to help people who are struggling.

[Anonymous No.16131483]

>>16131476
Funny how the Dubya image made you imbeciles associate greedy capitalism with country folks that have southern drawls, while it's northeastern executives you should be worried about. Your common conservative doesn't want to slash social security, that's the bought out politicians

[Anonymous No.16131488]

>>16131477
>And why is that inherently good?
I don't know if it is, it's just what >>16131424 prefers

[Anonymous No.16131509]

>>16131202
murder creates a lot of jobs

[Anonymous No.16131543]

>>16131202
Imagine killing people on the basis that your knowledge of science is infallible.
It's completely beyond logic and literally anti-science.
Which is why I doubt the Nazi's who funded computer development actually did that shit.

But this system?
Absolutely. It runs on money. Convincing people to kill themselves is a profitable business and literally lobbied and marketed nowadays.
You are being advertised to kill yourself.

It's like a hivemind that went "you know what, fuck this shit I want to die". That's all a society is.
And it is anti-thesis to actual scientific innovation and progress as much as it is anti-thesis to any religion.
Yet people will try to say science is secular to this day. I disagree, it's a religion of truth seeking with a ritual of empiricism.
Secularism is money parasites that fuck with science. As cancerous as any non-empirical ideology.

Science doesn't want to destroy itself for that would challenge it's fundamental goal of challenging a hypothesis and reaching a definite conclusion per the attachment that such a conclusion is falsifiable.
So blame science for this shit.
Blame people. Blame a poor economic system of trickery and the exploitation of good faith.
Science is merely a template tool, a recursive function.

[Anonymous No.16131546]

>>16131543
>So blame science for this shit.
So don't blame*

I should spell check things.
How embarrassing.

[Saint. Barkon No.16131547]

>>16131546
Retard.

[Anonymous No.16131562]

>>16131547
For once I agree with the schizo

[Anonymous No.16131565]

>>16131477
> Just get over it bro
> Just think positively bro
Yeah no, not everyone is an attention whore pussy that gets suicidal thoughts over slightest bad thing. Some people are suicidal because they truly suffer.

[Anonymous No.16131576]

>>16131477
and less suicidal people means less truly suffering people. Because those attention whore fake suicidals do not have the balls to kill themselves. Self preservation is the most fundamental instinct and to be able to commit suicide you have to be suffering great enough to go against this instinct.

[Anonymous No.16131587]

>>16131547
It's p-part of the p-p-process I swear!
>oh fuck oh fuck oh fuck

[Anonymous No.16131602]

But seriously, that case is nonsense.
It recognises her issues... but then pretends she has capacity to make a decision.

What a load of shit.
This is bad Law. How the fuck was this approved in a common law country?
This is a basic Equity case of unconscionable conduct and undue influence. This shouldn't even be a case and the judges are just blatantly ignoring Equity here.

t. did Law

There are bigger issues here. It's not even about euthanasia to me. The fuck are they doing ignoring basic common law here?
The fuck is the Dad doing?
Get your shit together. Get a new lawyer.

[Anonymous No.16131648]

>>16131543
>Imagine killing people on the basis that your knowledge of science is infallible.
>It's completely beyond logic and literally anti-science.
>Which is why I doubt the Nazi's who funded computer development actually did that shit.
Lotta retardation in just three lines

[Anonymous No.16131655]

>>16131602
>It recognises her issues... but then pretends she has capacity to make a decision.
Suffering does not mean cognitively impaired

[Anonymous No.16131657]

>>16131602
If you have a point to make, try putting it in the form of coherent sentences.

[Anonymous No.16131659]

>>16131565
>>16131576
In theory, it sounds nice to let people who are truly suffering have a way out. In practice, that can't be quantified in any meaningful way so you just have to take their word for it and end up with tons of people killing themselves over the slightest bad thing.

[Anonymous No.16131666]

>>16131659
Which is why there is the long, slow, considered, and highly non-impulsive process you have to jump through to authorize euthanasia.

[Anonymous No.16131690]

>>16131666
If only the world were as perfect as your idealized vision of it: https://apnews.com/article/covid-science-health-toronto-7c631558a457188d2bd2b5cfd360a867

[Anonymous No.16131706]

>>16131655
True, it's plain and simple undue influence.
Yeah capacity is only somewhat irrelevant (though can be brought up potentially).

Still, it's even stupider then. It just blatantly ignores that aspect of this and doesn't consider the fact that an outside party is the only way to intervene with such a situation.
How do they conclude autonomy when there's definitely undue influence that could impede autonomy here?
Furthermore, how do they prevent that issue from allowing euthanasia at all?

>Her only known diagnoses described in court earlier this month are autism and ADHD.
Another thing, why isn't the issue of depression brought up here?
What are these doctors doing jumping to euthanasia while skipping the obvious diagnosis of depression for suicidal people?

>At the March 11 hearing, Sarah Miller, counsel for the father, called the situation "a novel issue for Alberta" because the province operates a system where there is no appeal process and no means of reviewing a person's MAID approval.
>While Feasby found the "court cannot review a MAID applicant's decision-making or the clinical judgment of the doctors and nurse practitioners," he did rule the actions of the MAID navigator — a person who works for AHS and helps co-ordinate a patient's eligibility assessment — can be examined.
What?
Why didn't he do that?

Then just ask "why not a diagnosis of depression?"

>Because of medical-privacy laws, her parents can never know why two doctors felt it was acceptable for the state to euthanise their daughter.
This is obscene if true in this particular context.
Firstly, they're ignoring her capacity issues to make her decision.
Secondly, they've now made it possible for doctors to drug people, convince them to die and get away with murder through this method. And that definitely will happen if this is allowed.
Surely that would overcome the "ethical requirement of privacy" at this stage. The possibility of murder for the convenience of the doctors involved.

[Anonymous No.16131708]

>>16131509
Keeping patient alive just to suffer even more.

[Anonymous No.16131709]

>>16131666
There certainly is an adequate amount of process to drug her, psychologically manipulate her, rape her and then convince her to kill herself.
Damn, how do I become a euthanisia doctor? Sounds like good shit.
Raping people, getting rid of the evidence and then getting paid for it without a legal method of preventing such a thing because of the gross assumption of good faith here.

[Anonymous No.16131711]

>>16131659
The self preservation instinct already filters out those fake suicidals.

[Anonymous No.16131714]

>>16131690
>The law was later amended to allow people who are not terminally ill to choose death, significantly broadening the number of eligible people.

Utter insanity.
This NGO is the most evil NGO on the planet if it lobbied for this law. They are making money to allow the state to murder you.
It's nothing to do with physical suffering now.

[Anonymous No.16131717]

>>16131711
Well it certainly filters people from getting psychological treatment by people that could exploit them, convince them to kill themselves and then let their patients get rid of the evidence without a check for undue influence.

Hell even the protocol for being terminally ill (not even required now in Canada it seems) could be exploited for murder by doctors now.
Hell their whole ethical arrangement can be exploitable for all kinds of shit for "confidentiality" reasons.
Lawyers don't get away with that shit (well not often).
Why do doctors get away with that shit?

[Anonymous No.16131721]

>>16131711
Not when you can get painless suicide administered by someone else. Self-preservation instincts mainly boil down to pain avoidance; the thought of being in pain is scary and your instincts keep you from inflicting it on yourself. But if you can be assured the process is completely painless and if you don't have to carry it out yourself those instincts are effectively bypassed. We're literally already seeing this happen in Canada, people applying for euthanasia for minor disabilities, depression, or being poor, and there are advocates pushing the government to allow all of it.

[Anonymous No.16131736]

Unless there is absolutely no way a related member of a patient's family can be involved (that is they're all dead or un-contactable), it should be standard that they should get involved.
The fact that they weren't even asked to be involved is gross medical malpractice in my opinion. It should be standard.

I mean there's no evidence the Dad is negatively impacting the patient here and causing the diagnosis of ADHD (kek that's not enough to kill someone on) or autism.
Why shouldn't they force the family's involvement for this shit? They do for other legal shit? Why not this shit?
It's baffling.

Oh and imagine if they also managed to get the patient to sign over money to one of the doctors or something. Though I think that's covered by conflict of interest issues already here.
The rape shit though would not. The manipulation for "non registered" benefits is not.

Yeah this kills euthanasia dead. Now real suffering people like my ex-Nan that wanted to die can't die in comfort because it's already fucked beyond belief with this. Watch as euthanasia now dies. No pun intended.

[Anonymous No.16131743]

>>16131736
Why should the family be involved? Suppose your ex-Nan had her request granted - and then a vindictive aunt who always hated her guts vetoes it just to draw out her suffering. Whoops, can't do that without consent of the family members! That's not how bodily autonomy works. If she is able to make the decision, or has made her will known beforehand, there is no reason anyone else should get a say.

[Anonymous No.16131744]

>>16131447
depends. it's not as clear with you (eugenics of nonbeliebers), hence why I asked.

[Anonymous No.16131747]

>>16131736
>>16131743
I mean, you surely agree with me that it'd be insane for someone to be forced to die against their will if the family thought it was best - why should someone's legal euthanasia be prevented just because the family thinks it best that they continue to live?

[Anonymous No.16131757]

>>16131743
>and then a vindictive aunt who always hated her guts vetoes it just to draw out her suffering.
That should be challenge-able in court then.
Of course.
> That's not how bodily autonomy works.
I agree.


So why can't you challenge the doctors like that though?
Why do they get a free pass to doctor death and patient exploitation here?
I'm assuming they don't because it's just absurd to claim that ethical duties forces this shit to be confidential at all costs.
That leads to the potential of state enforced genocide. Especially if the public system is involved.

[Anonymous No.16131759]

Like this is literally a human rights issue now.
Could canada be in breach of human rights here now?
Is this aspect of their medical ethical system in breach of human rights here?

I think it is.
Which means the they dun fucking goofed and probably future compromised their medical ethics systems through opening the door for this shit internationally now.

[Anonymous No.16131760]

>>16131747
pretty hard to argue someone in their right mind wants to kys. although I get it, there are cases, just that there would be way more unwarranted cases, where someone who's not all there wants to do it, but they'd be better off if they didn't. like after taking some medication for their problem (supposing there is).

[Anonymous No.16131765]

>>16131757
>That should be challenge-able in court then.
>Of course.
As if euthanasia doesn't take enough time already?

>So why can't you challenge the doctors like that though?
Because they are the doctors and not random family members. Maybe next, your mother should determine whether you get chemo and radiation therapy or maybe crystals.

[Anonymous No.16131933]

>>16131202
Why do these manufactured outrage threads keep popping up everywhere. First, it's factually wrong that the person in question, the daughter, gets euthanized for being "autistic". She has an undisclosed medical issue that, according to her testimony, causes her tremendous pain. Linking this to some opinion paper published by what looks like the New York Times is disingenuous and simply manipulative.

[Anonymous No.16131940]

>>16131765
>Because they are the doctors and not random family members. Maybe next, your mother should determine whether you get chemo and radiation therapy or maybe crystals.
He relies on ad hoc arguments where "euthanasia" amounts to a necessarily immoral action because the person requesting the euthanasia might be incapable of making that decision based on another ad hoc argument called "mental illness". I have had similar discussions with other people before over that exact same topic. It always breaks down there. "Anyone who wants to kill himself is mentally ill" -> "It's bad to euthanize the mentally ill because they can't consent to that". -> "Anyone who wants to kill himself is mentally ill"

[Anonymous No.16131995]

>>16131202
why do you retardedly equate voluntary euthanasia to murder? suicide isn't wrong, the world is shit. use your brain

[Anonymous No.16132020]

>>16131940
That's not really what ad hoc means.

And it is generally true that people who want to kill themselves without any physical health problem are mentally ill. Maybe there are cases involving terminal diseases and/or extreme incurable pain where that might not be the case, but the proponents of assisted suicide laws push far past those boundaries. Maybe the mental illness (i.e. depression) is caused by some physical disabilities, but creating an environment where people with those disabilities are encouraged to die is le bad.

[Anonymous No.16132074]

>>16132020
>That's not really what ad hoc means.
The so introduced arguments are ad hoc arguments, in the meaning of statements of questionable truthfulness meant to affirm an argument. You probably refer to ad hoc hypothesis in the sense of: If it isn't this one here, then it's that one over there etc.
>it's just absurd to claim that ethical duties forces this shit to be confidential at all costs
There is something like privacy.
Also:
>That leads to the potential of state enforced genocide. Especially if the public system is involved.
Modal fallacy. Because state enforced genocide likely requires confidentiality, that does not mean that the presence of confidential protocols like that will amount to a state enforced genocide.
See your other posts
>She's now allowed to get assisted suicide (which requires her to want to kill herself) because she's mentally ill -> She's mentally ill because she wants to kill herself.
Circular reasoning.
>but the proponents of assisted suicide laws push far past those boundarie
Sure, but from that it does not, in itself, follow that we should bar people from seeking assisted suicide. However, your definition of what constitutes a state of mental incapacity already presumes that everyone should be barred from assisted suicide.

[Anonymous No.16132080]

>>16131709
>Hmm I'm feeling depressed over my unprocessed trauma from being raped by my doctor, who do I go to see about that
>Ah yes my doctor of course

[Anonymous No.16132081]

>>16132020
>That's not really what ad hoc means.
The so introduced arguments are ad hoc arguments. You assume that she wants to kill herself because of mental illness (and if that isn't true), it's because the doctors pressure her into it (and if that isn't true) then somethign else.
>it's just absurd to claim that ethical duties forces this shit to be confidential at all costs
There is something like privacy.
Also:
>That leads to the potential of state enforced genocide. Especially if the public system is involved.
Modal fallacy. Because state enforced genocide likely requires confidentiality, that does not mean that the presence of confidential protocols like that will amount to a state enforced genocide.
See your other posts
>She's now allowed to get assisted suicide (which requires her to want to kill herself) because she's mentally ill -> She's mentally ill because she wants to kill herself.
Circular reasoning.
>but the proponents of assisted suicide laws push far past those boundarie
Sure, but from that it does not, in itself, follow that we should bar people from seeking assisted suicide. However, your definition of what constitutes a state of mental incapacity already presumes that everyone should be barred from assisted suicide.

[Anonymous No.16132123]

>>16131476
>And a couple hundred perforated toddlers every year is just the price we have have to pay
Yes. Yes it is.
I don't even want to understand what schizo point you are getting at, but if you are saying we need to enact something deep-reaching merely because of a few 100 deaths/year, then I disagree.
The reasons are manifold, but the crux is that people like you (soft-handed, soft-hearted, soft-headed bleeding hearts) don't understand that these 100 deaths are the entire magnitude of the problem in its untreated state and most likely just a statistical aberration to begin with, whereas with your intervention you create a behemoth institution (I am not referring to a literal political-entity institution here) that depresses the human spirit and human potential for an indeterminate duration into the future.

[Anonymous No.16132136]

>>16132123
Americans are literally insane lmao

[Anonymous No.16132150]

>>16132136
and they are proud of it

[Anonymous No.16132152]

>>16132081
>your definition of what constitutes a state of mental incapacity already presumes that everyone should be barred from assisted suicide.
I explicitly qualified this as being people who want to kill themselves despite lacking any terminal illness, extreme pain, etc.

Ad hoc just means "for this." It isn't even really a fallacy; anytime you're discussing a specific issue there will be some ad hoc reasoning involved, unless you're arguing with a totally uncompromising extremist.
>You assume that she wants to kill herself because of mental illness
I assume that physically healthy people who want to kill themselves are mentally ill (if you disagree with that then you're using a terrible definition of "mentally ill") and that society shouldn't encourage their suicidal tendencies by legally sanctioning doctors to euthanize them with nominal consent. Suicide is not and should not be a normal part of human life.
>Modal fallacy…state enforced genocide
I didn't write the post to which you refer but please stop trying to cite logical fallacies because you're not doing it correctly. "X enables the potential for genocide" is not logically equivalent to "X implies that there is a genocide" and the other Anon only made the claim that it created the potential. "Labelling all citizens of a certain ethnicity leads to the potential of genocide" is certainly not a logically fallacy.
>circular reasoning
Not really, since her being mentally ill doesn't depend on her not being able to get assisted suicide. And in any case you misrepresent the core issue, which is that she lacks any terminal illness or debilitating physical condition which would cause a perfectly psychologically healthy person to seek assisted suicide. Yes, this definition necessarily excludes all healthy young people with long lives ahead of them from being euthanized. If that's disagreeable to you then I won't bother trying to argue further.

[Anonymous No.16132157]

>>16131995
>the world is shit.
you feel entitled to live in paradise on earth because you don't believe in an afterlife. the world is better now than it ever has been, life is easier than is ever has been, but instead of being happy with what you've got you're only upset at it and demanding more and better. you will never be satisfied, you will live an unhappy life and then you will die.

[Anonymous No.16132161]

>>16132157
but your masters are never satisfied with their money power and control. they always want more, barely share anything extra. why are you giving them a pass and plebs not?

[Anonymous No.16132201]

>>16132157
>hurr, if you're severely unhappy and depressed/defeated, it is because you are a selfish bastard who won't settle for anything less than paradise.
>the world is the best its ever been now that your culture and phenotype is actively targeted for worldwide eradication.

[Anonymous No.16132247]

>>16132152
>anytime you're discussing a specific issue there will be some ad hoc reasoning involved
That's not really what I meant here. Your reasoning isn't just "ad hoc", it largely rests on a stereotypical characterization of what you think euthanasia cases should behave like and how we should deal with them.
>(if you disagree with that then you're using a terrible definition of "mentally ill"
I don't want to rely on a reified construct of what it means to be deviant or abnormal. If suicidal ideation makes someone mentally ill and mental illness precludes someone from making such a decision, then what consequence other than "Don't commit suicide" emerges?
>and that society shouldn't encourage their suicidal tendencies by legally sanctioning doctors to euthanize them with nominal consent
The act of discussing that subject as well as simply referencing the story has already been shown to increase suicidal ideation. Either way, there's a chance that people who want to kill themselves by means of euthanasia would still end up killing themselves. The lengthy legal process, whatsoever, may even deter someone from simply committing suicide due to the increased monitoring.
>I didn't write the post to which you refer but please stop trying to cite logical fallacies because you're not doing it correctly. "X enables the potential for genocide" is not logically equivalent to "X implies that there is a genocide"
I don't think I've misapplied it here. It has been a long time since I've last gone over logics which is the reason why I had to write my last comment twice.
"X enables the potential for genocide"
"Potential for genocide will result in genocide" (why else make that statement if you didn't already believe in it?)
"Therefore, X will cause a genocide.
>And in any case you misrepresent the core issue, which is that she lacks any terminal illness or debilitating physical condition...
She has a limiting physical condition, it's just not disclosed.

[Anonymous No.16132451]

This thread is so clearly bait. Sensational news headline out of context. No link to article. Highly exaggerated OP rhetoric with blatant faulty generalisation.
>73 replies

[Anonymous No.16132460]

>>16132451
Noone takes stupid OP's clickbait image seriously. People here are discussing euthanasia good or bad

[Anonymous No.16132462]

>>16132157
afterlife is irrelevant retardo. you don't know shit about other people's lives or how bad they have it. live your shitty life if you want, but that doesn't mean other people want to or are going to do the same

[Anonymous No.16132478]

>>16132247
tldr
Imagine being a such worthless dumb fuck to type all that dumb shit out. Bet u think u are a big boy.

[Anonymous No.16132529]

>>16132451
>This thread triggers me and makes me cry like a sissy

[Anonymous No.16132533]

>>16132136
I am Swiss.

[Anonymous No.16132574]

>>16132247
>That's not really what I meant here
Then don't use terms you don't understand.
>I don't want to rely on a reified construct of what it means to be deviant or abnormal
Then I would infer that you don't want to define any circumstances where a person can't be considered competent to make the decision, because any framework would require a solid definition of what competence or normal mental functioning entails. And no, healthy mental functioning cannot include actively wanting to die; suicide is every bit as detrimental to a person's wellbeing as smearing shit on the walls.
>what consequence other than "Don't commit suicide" emerges
A societal obligation to help suicidal people and prevent them from acting on their urges.
>"Potential for genocide will result in genocide"
This is not generally true and I don't think anyone here said anything to this effect. If anything, "potential" carries the negative implication that that outcome is not guaranteed.

>She has a limiting physical condition, it's just not disclosed.
That would change my evaluation if it were something extremely severe. But since my objection to the law is that it would allow for euthanasia even absent something severe enough to justify suicide (for purposes of legislation I think drawing a hard line at "terminally ill" is the only way to prevent its gradual expansion, though I think that ethically there's more wiggle room) this doesn't really change anything. If a legalizes imprisoning and raping anyone who breaks into your house and I read a news story about a burglar trapped in your basement then my judgment of the law does not change just because you claim not to be raping him.

[Anonymous No.16132592]

>>16131275
Death is the trivial solution to suffering tho

[Anonymous No.16132607]

>>16131488
What I meant was clearly less suicide retard

[Anonymous No.16132618]

>>16132574
As if anyone gives a fuck what you think. What a fucked up little faggot you are, all that drool coming out of your mouth. Mixed with your daddy's cum.

[Anonymous No.16132622]

>>16131416
>So you prefer a suicidal person to blast his head off
Yes.
Daddy government already does everything for you, on my buck. Do something on your own for a change.

[Anonymous No.16132637]

>>16131666
>trust the bureaucratic process, it'll keep everything in check
lol. lmao even.

[Anonymous No.16132686]

>>16132637
The German word "Schreibtischtäter" (desk murderer) was originally coined to describe the USSR bureaucrats who killed tens of millions of Russians by doing things like ordering seizures of all food from large regions, insuring that all the people living there would starve to death.

[Anonymous No.16132759]

>>16131202
>Death cult

[Anonymous No.16132795]

>>16132574
>Then don't use terms you don't understand.
The way I used the term was perfectly fine. You relied on arguments that were poorly thought out and non-sensical in order to uphold a pre-made conclusion.
>>16132618
based

[Anonymous No.16132894]

>>16131363
>If that were the point, everyone should be sterilized
According to other boards, and to some /here/ anons too, that's exactly what happened when we were forced/induced/convinced to get a couple injections a few years ago. Time will tell I guess.

[Anonymous No.16132895]

>>16131275
>>16131363

medical professionals never want to kill murderers, instead murderers are kept in prison but unharmed

whats with that?

[Anonymous No.16132896]

>>16131202
nazis also burned jewish sexologist books about transgenderism. is canada doing that?

[Anonymous No.16133028]

>>16132896
>nazis also burned jewish sexologist books about transgenderism. is canada doing that?
No, of course not. But the nazis didn't diagnose people with a made-up brain development disorder either for not understanding some joke at a psychologist's office.

And back then, disability wasn't a thinly veiled cash-grab that enabled pharma and other corporations via bought out subsidiaries to funnel money to their investors via fraudulent disability claims and treatment plans. Ever figured why so many people are now taking anti-depressants or adderall, get addicted to it and mistake their withdrawal symptoms for depression or ADHD? It's not about helping because we know that these drugs don't help.

[Anonymous No.16133279]

>>16132895
how does killing a murderer in prison decrease suffering?

[Anonymous No.16133586]

>>16132795
>non-sensical
always fun to see ESLs stick to their guns when they blatantly misuse some English term (though ironically ad hoc is loan phrase from Latin)

[Anonymous No.16133642]

>>16133586
oh no, I put a hyphen where it doesn't belong. I'm shocked. How can I ever recover from that knowing that the guy I respond to can't even speak any language other than simplified English.

[Anonymous No.16133673]

>>16133642
NTA, but I always find it hilarious how ESLs use "I know more than one language" as some sort of mic-dropping own. Guess what? Every American learns at least one foreign language in their lives. In order to graduate high school you have to take 2-3 years of a foreign language. But do you know what happens? We never need to use it because the entire world speaks English, so we fall out of practice and lose it. No one cares about the irrelevant language you speak in your irrelevant town in your irrelevant country, because the language of global interaction in every possible venue and platform is English. If you know English, you can travel the entire developed world and always be able to get by. If you know any other language, that doesn't work so you have to learn and use English.

[Anonymous No.16133675]

>>16131202
>Why is contemporary medical science so obsessed with murdering people?
Imagine a world without autists.

[Anonymous No.16133677]

>>16133642
>Anon is not an ESL
>ergo Anon can only speak simplified English
What logical fallacy is this, o wise one?

But seriously, if you're going to converse in English please be cognizant of your limited ability when compared to a native speaker. Making a mistake is not a big deal, but doubling down on that mistake just makes you look silly. A productive argument relies on people finding common points of agreement and debating points of disagreement through language; when language itself becomes a point of disagreement then everything breaks down and it becomes, well, whatever the fuck this is.

[Anonymous No.16133682]

>>16131275
The point of the profession is that NOW, since the Hippocratic Oath was removed.

[Anonymous No.16133739]

>>16133677
>if you're going to converse in English please be cognizant of your limited ability when compared to a native speaker
This is a statement that really, in no way, pertains to anything that we've talked about. Please, argue logically rather than simply pinning the whole issue down on me being an ESL. There's no difference between English or Russian or Chinese or Latin when it comes to uttering stupid or illogical statements. You committed several fallacies in your arguments.

You were wrong, simple as that. Now, you throw a tantrum because your take on euthanasia being morally wrong has been outed as logically inconsistent. Why don't you simply admit that you're primarily preoccupied with evangelizing whatever it is that you believe in.

[Anonymous No.16134010]

>>16133739
>You committed several fallacies in your arguments.
No, I didn't. You fundamentally misunderstand logical reasoning and posted incoherent refutations while relying on (English/Latin) terms that you simply did not use correctly. You have in no way refuted my core argument. Asserting that it's fallacious and then incorrectly identifying putative logical fallacies being used is not anything resembling a refutation. Argument on those terms is impossible and I found it necessary to draw attention to these discrepancies and to suggest that you being a non-native speaker aggravates the issue. In any case:

>The overwhelming majority of non-terminally ill people who want to die have mental illnesses which incline them to commit suicide
True or false?
>Suicide is a self-destructive tendency
True or false?
>Society should not encourage mentally ill individuals to indulge their self-destructive tendencies, and reduce the harm of those tendencies
True or false?
>Legalizing assisted suicide for any non-terminally ill individuals enables people with mental illnesses motivating them to commit suicide to commit suicide.
True or false?

[Anonymous No.16134012]

>>16131202
these guys can be scary when they don't get their way
https://www.bitchute.com/video/hvRoX959WIBH/

[Anonymous No.16134013]

>>16133739
>You committed several fallacies in your arguments.
No, I didn't. You fundamentally misunderstand logical reasoning and posted incoherent refutations while relying on (English/Latin) terms that you simply did not use correctly. You have in no way refuted my core argument. Asserting that it's fallacious and then incorrectly identifying putative logical fallacies being used is not anything resembling a refutation. Argument on those terms is impossible and I found it necessary to draw attention to these discrepancies and to suggest that you being a non-native speaker aggravates the issue. In any case:

>The overwhelming majority of non-terminally ill people who want to die have mental illnesses which incline them to commit suicide
True or false?
>Suicide is a self-destructive tendency
True or false?
>Society should not encourage mentally ill individuals to indulge their self-destructive tendencies, and should reduce the harm caused by tendencies
True or false?
>Legalizing assisted suicide for any non-terminally ill individuals enables people with mental illnesses motivating them to commit suicide to commit suicide.
True or false?

[Anonymous No.16134166]

Wanting to have the power of life and death over others is a classic symptom of a god complex
>Ernest Jones, in 1913, was the first to construe extreme narcissism, which he called the "God-complex", as a character flaw. He described people with God-complex as being aloof, self-important, overconfident, auto-erotic, inaccessible, self-admiring, and exhibitionistic, with fantasies of omnipotence and omniscience. He observed that these people had a high need for uniqueness.

[Anonymous No.16134246]

>>16133028
Actually it was a nazi who invented Asperger's syndrome

[Anonymous No.16134247]

>>16133673
>Every American learns at least one foreign language in their lives. In order to graduate high school you have to take 2-3 years of a foreign language.
I'm amazed to learn that so many Americans don't even finish high school, then. Well, not that amazed, come to think of it.

[Anonymous No.16134248]

>>16134166
Posting this same copy-pasta over and over again believing anyone cares about your opinion is a definite sign of extreme narcissism

[Anonymous No.16134274]

>>16134013
>You fundamentally misunderstand logical reasoning
No, I didn't. You make a bunch of arguments, such as:
>The overwhelming majority of non-terminally ill people who want to die have mental illnesses which incline them to commit suicide
which are simply meaningless because, in this example, you classify anyone as mentally ill who wants to commit suicide, therefore should be ineligible for euthanasia. Again, you force people to arrive at your conclusion based on biased reasoning.
>I found it necessary to draw attention to these discrepancies and to suggest that you being a non-native speaker aggravates the issue
I don't think that's the issue other than me having, maybe, incorrectly used a term once. Either way, formulating logically sound statements works the same in any language. But that doesn't matter, actually. It's just gaslighting, because you still fail to adress the issues I identified. You make statements such as: confidentiality allows for "the potential for genocide." 1. That's not true because the potential for genocide doesn't depend on confidentiality, 2. why write that when you didn't want to imply that what is happening right now is an act of genocide?
>Suicide is a self-destructive tendency
Is it really an irrational solution to a problem that you can't solve and will suffer from for the rest of your life?
>Society should not encourage mentally ill individuals to indulge their self-destructive tendencies, and should reduce the harm caused by tendencies
Already adressed. This simply amounts to prohibiting suicide altogether.

[Anonymous No.16134306]

>>16134274
Shut the fuck up already. Why won't you all stop making damn long masturbation posts.

[Anonymous No.16134477]

>>16134248
Jones was a very important scientist, Freud plagiarized almost all of Jones' work

[Anonymous No.16134508]

>>16131202
they already kill children, naturally they're capable of anything

[Anonymous No.16134528]

>>16134247
Dumb ESL.

[Anonymous No.16134696]

>>16134274
>you classify anyone as mentally ill who wants to commit suicide
Yes (well not anyone, just the overwhelming majority of people). You haven't given any reason as to why this shouldn't be considered true.
>mentally ill people should be ineligible for euthanasia
Yes (at least with the qualification that it affects their competency). You also haven't objected to this.

Your only objection is to me combining those two statements because that magically becomes a logical fallacy. But it simply doesn't because it's not fallacious to use the result of one statement to inform another statement—that's how reasoning works.
>most people who drive at 150 mph on the highway endanger others
>people who endanger others when driving should be fined
>thus, people who drive at 150 mph on the highway should be fined

Any coherent definition of mentally ill would absolutely include most suicidal persons. It is a self-destructive action in the most literal sense possible
>This simply amounts to prohibiting suicide altogether.
Yes. And establishing a legalized euthanasia regime goes much further that lack of a prohibition since it publicly establishes suicide as an officially sanctioned option.

[Anonymous No.16135568]

>>16131202
>Why would anyone in their right mind trust their health to a profession that is determined to commit as much murder as it can possibly get away with?
they wouldn't, but most people are extremely low iq and thats who doctors prey on

[Anonymous No.16135701]

>>16134477
Great, I'm just going to suggest that everyone who disagrees with me wants to fuck their mother from now on

[Anonymous No.16135860]

>>16134247
>ESL retard can't even read a whole paragraph

[Anonymous No.16136729]

>>16135701
Why does Jones trigger you so badly?

[Anonymous No.16137917]

>>16131371
No wonder they're used to it. I mean vaccines give people autism.

[Anonymous No.16138653]

>>16136729
Could it be because Jones' observations hit too close to home?

[Anonymous No.16138655]

>>16136729
>>16138653
Why does Freud trigger you so badly? Motherfucking perverts.

[Anonymous No.16138783]

>>16131202
it's not murder if they consent

[Anonymous No.16138830]

>>16137917
>I mean vaccines give people autism
I'm still waiting for the source that would prove that. A behavioral category such as autism seems to be big anyway for it to be caused by one thing. Although I won't deny singular cases where vaccines might have attributed to it, it's unlikely in the majority of cases.

[Anonymous No.16139234]

>>16138783
Correct.

[Anonymous No.16139240]

>>16131202
euthanasia being legal in canada doesnt mean doctors want to kill people and do eugenics
canada having a high euthanization rate is a sign of an underfunded system that can't diagnose or treat correctly
medical professionals saved my life multiple times, i wouldbn't be here and cancer would've taken me a long time ago if not for them
they are not out for your blood, they work hard and are under paid as shit (outside of america that is) and do the job noone wants to do

[Anonymous No.16139244]

>>16131371
yeah, euthanasia terrifies people who have never known suffering in their life
they don't understand how it feels like to be hopeless and with a disease that cannot be cured
i am lucky that my cancer was treated and i am alive, but in my journey ive been with so many cancer patients who have no chance of surviving forced to suffer to the bitter end for no reason

[Anonymous No.16139251]

>>16131202
source on the second story? they're just killing autistic children now?

[Anonymous No.16139253]

>>16139244
People know it's abused in practice to murder people, countless cases of this in the Netherlands.

[Anonymous No.16139254]

>>16131275
>The point of the profession is to minimise suffering
says fucking who?

[Anonymous No.16139257]

>>16139251
>they're just killing autistic children now?
They're not. It's a 26-year-old woman with a non-disclosed medical issue. She just so happens to have been diagnosed with adhd and autism, two meme diagnoses that you can get on request.

[Anonymous No.16139258]

>>16139253
not really, it's not abused anywhere from what i see and is still a hard process to get done

[Anonymous No.16139267]

>>16131202
Why is murdering people a bad thing?
Eugenics bro.
Is based.

[Am still on 4chan No.16139272]

>>16131202
They just want money anon, whatever "ideology" you think they have is cosmetic

[Anonymous No.16139274]

>>16139254
>says fucking who?
Say the ones who abuse medical professionals to get high on benzoids, morphine or stimulant drugs.
Say the ones who go to 4 different psychologists to get 5 different diagnoses so that they can leech off social security
Say the ones who keep on supporting a fraudulent medical treatment after another because they're taught that you cannot question science.
Say the ones who believe in transhumanism and the great acceleration.
Say the ones who support "gender-reassigment" surgery on minors and deny the numerous severe side effects of transgender treatment.
Say the doctors.
Say the industrial enterpreneurs and interest groups deriving billions in profits from price gauging and price fixing, insurance fraud, getting people hooked up on prescription drugs and lowering diagnostic criteria so that more people qualify for treatment for high blood pressure, diabetes etc.
Say the ones who pushed the Covid-"vaccine" and claimed it to be safe despite there being no long-term or medium-to-long-term studies.

Quite a lot of people.

[Anonymous No.16139278]

>>16139272
most of the world is not the USA, and even in the USA doctors don't get more money the more patients come to a hospital or get euthanized

[Anonymous No.16139280]

>>16139274
americans not having free healthcare has destroyed their minds

[Anonymous No.16139294]

>>16139280
>americans not having free healthcare has destroyed their minds
It's not an issue of free healthcare or not. I'm European and corruption happens here just as much as it does in the USA. It's just less obvious because they can't that easily debt trap you like they can over there. The whole point is. Do you trust someone to make a decision in your interest if his profession depends on him not understanding certain decisions.
Like >>16139253 said. I'm familiar with the case of doctors signing on behalf of Alzheimer patients that they would like to get euthanasia because the doctors are pressured into reducing costs. There is simply no way for anyone to prevent that from happening when the clinics and whatever ethics board there is are both captured. We already have a shit number of patients just dying with no clear reason as to why they would die. I heard a claim that in 2020 alone, doctors in the UK deliberately killed 30'000 elderly people. I have no way of knowing whether or not it's false but it could very easily happen with the ones that are already old and on medical gear.

[Anonymous No.16139300]

>>16139294
you have no clue what you are talking about
i arrived to europe with a late stage cancer and 0 money and i got treated for free and put back on my feet till i could pay back
doctors arent pressured to reduce costs, for all they know i couldve died and wasted thousands of euros for them but they still took care of me
the world isn't as nhilistic and cruel as people online make it seem anon

[Anonymous No.16139309]

>>16139300
>the world isn't as nhilistic and cruel as people online make it seem anon
Who do you thinks pays your treatment? If you want me to be cynical, I can quite easily state that your act of immigrating and getting free treatment is nothing more than debauchery. A failure of whatever European nation you immigrated to to protect itself from medical tourism and parasitism.
>doctors arent pressured to reduce costs
They aren't until they are. You fail to understand that medical treatment is still based on transferring money, on procuring and selling services etc. You claim, based on you getting treatment in a hospital, that it is the hospital and not the taxpayer who ends up paying for it.

[Anonymous No.16139757]

[Anonymous No.16139780]

>>16139757
disturbingly accurate

[Anonymous No.16139967]

>>16139309
you typed a whole lot yet you said nothing
you said that hospitals are pressuring doctors to cut costs, this is simply not true at all