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/sci/ - Science & Math

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16130818 No.16130818 [Reply] [Original]

>Alcubierre Drive bro!
The idea that a ship could bend spacetime around it in order to move through said spacetime seems to me to be analagous to trying to lift a chair while you are sitting on it. But lets say that a warp bubble is produced independantly of the ship, and then sent on a pre-determined path with the ship inside. Even this seems impossible, because once again it involves manipulating a substance that are are innately a part of. How exactly can a three dimensional creature that cannot willingly control it's time dimension hope to manipulate spacetime in this way? It's like a 2D creature trying to manipulate 3D space.

But lets say it is possible. Clearly we can manipulate spacetime in some way. Get enough energy together and you can create gravity, which is just the warping of spacetime, but so far as we know, gravity propagates at a max speed just below the speed of light. So a warp drive based on bending space like this would not feasibly end up accelerating to FTL speeds anyway.

Literally the only FTL phenomena that people can point to is the expansion of the universe itself. This is the fundamental difference between simply bending spacetime as gravity does (or is) and the actual expansion and contraction of space itself. It is likely the latter is never going to be possible because of what I said earlier, that we are beings who can not manipulate spacetime in such a way. We are three dimensional with no control over our time dimension. We are sitting on the chair we are trying to lift.

>> No.16130819

It depresses me but this is the reality based on our current theories about how the universe works. So why do they want to keep dangling this carrot in front of us that there is actually any hope of interstellar exploration, of meeting new alien civilizations? Unless some 4+ dimensional beings decide to come down and bless us with their abilities, the best we can hope for is a few colonies in this solar system, that is as far as our stellar empire will go. And sure, you can cryo-sleep on a ship for a couple centuries but that's no basis for an empire. Just a disparate series of colonies forever out of communication range with each other across the breadth of the galaxy. It sucks, man.

>> No.16130820

The wave function collapses faster than light speed but not instantly. There could be some sauce there.

>> No.16130832

>>16130819
>bacteria brain
>empire
top kek

>> No.16130846
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16130846

>dude muh soience fiction space travel fantasy life that was implanted in my brain by hollywood!!!
>I'm gonna travel to the sausage planet at the spede of lyte!!!

>> No.16130847

>>16130846
Humans innately explore and colonize, what else are we supposed to do? You don't find it depressing having our ceiling revealed to us?

>> No.16130909

>>16130820
They are locally correlated so not ftl

>> No.16130995

>>16130820
Wave function collapse can be explained by an anisotropic speed of light, where information travels away from (you) instantaneously, while information traveling toward (you) is limited to 1/2 c.
>wave function collapses
>the entire universe is notified instantaneously
>but "replies" come back at 1/2 c
Bang, both non-locality and superluminal signalling eliminated.

>> No.16130999

>>16130818
The dumbest thing about the alcubierre drive is that the drive itself doesn't spontaneously move. It just creates a coordinate system that moves when the drive is moved, causing the payload to move "for free". Going FTL is still impossible, unless your drive is made of tachyons (in which case, the drive will ALWAYS be going FTL, making it impossible to get on or off.)

>> No.16131007

>>16130818
Bro how else are we gonna get to all the hot aliens then?

>> No.16131030

It’s just a solution to an equation. Doesn’t mean much more than that.

>> No.16131033
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16131033

>>16130818
>Reminder that we will never travel faster than light.
Even if this is true we can still colonize this galaxy.
>>16130820
This is because you have to interfere with the particle to measure it. The particle is not sending information to the other side of the galaxy because it already is plus or minus before measuring it.

>> No.16131039

>>16130818
Then how do UAPs do it?

>> No.16131041

>>16130818
FTL is the great filter

>> No.16131070

>>16131033
>you have to interfere with the particle to measure it
Not true. The particle can be entangled with a particle on the opposite side of the galaxy, allowing you to measure two particles with a single measurement.
>The particle is not sending information to the other side of the galaxy
While it's fundamentally impossible to use entangled particles as le heckin' ansible, quantum information /must/ be sent FTL (note: non-local hidden variables === FTL), unless the universe is either non-deterministic or conspiring against you.

>> No.16131082

>>16130818
i thought it was more like as though it was creating something like a black hold in front of the ship and the opposite behind the ship. Not a black hole with a singularity, but just compressing spacetime beyond the limit that light could escape, which is why it gets dragged along faster than light, it's basically in a constant state of falling toward the compressed spacetime it's creating. Like how light can't get out of a black hole once it's gone in beyond the event horizon, but if that happens it hasn't necessarily yet reached the singularity where the curvature is infinite

>> No.16131096

Belief in limitation is the one and only cause of limitation

>> No.16131099

>>16130818
>lift a chair while you are sitting on it.
Plenty of videos of people doing that not only with chairs, but with stools, ladders, barrels, and other objects.

>> No.16131304

>>16131033
>Even if this is true we can still colonize this galaxy.
colonizing doesn't work outside our solar system. whatever makes it out is its own lifeform that you lose all control over.

>> No.16131309
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16131309

>>16130818

>> No.16131790

>>16130818
wouldn't they travel to the past tho? wouldn't the whole frame of reference thing apply to the ship?

>> No.16131811

>>16130818
Is White Light From The False Light?

https://youtu.be/G2B7JlLLtC8?si=DhWX06o93Em3AkSL

>> No.16131861

>>16131790
The whole "ftl = time travel" thing only applies if you think the universe doesnt have a bias for forwards time

>> No.16131867

>>16130818
Why ?

>> No.16131888

>>16131861
even if, you'd still get the whole time passes slower for us than for everybody else who's not in our frame. else would clocks inside the ship be in sync with clocks on Earth after a FTL ride?

>> No.16131891

>>16131888
>else would clocks inside the ship be in sync with clocks on Earth after a FTL ride?
and if not, at what rate would they be out of sync? if not going back in time, it can't be at lightspeed as time would pass in an instant, so gotta be lower, but how low, and why that value?

>> No.16131951

>>16130818
You don't have to travel faster than light, if you can shorten the route.

>> No.16132855

>>16131030
Very few really understand relativity. There is only one real frame or reference, all the others are illusions. That device doesn't work with the real frame of reference, is as real as the time machine in idiocracy.

>> No.16132875

>>16130820
>The wave function collapses
No such thing. Your consciousness splits, is what you mean.