Roko's Basilisk

[Anonymous No.15930627]

How tf are people atheist but believe stupid shit like rokos basilisk?

like genuinely the similarities with traditional monotheistic afterlifes are identical and cant be a coincidence.

Yet somehow it genuinely puts redditors into existential dread like it hasnt happened to all of humanity for millenniums.

Im not shilling people to "accept christpill" but it is a laughably derivative thought experiment.

[Anonymous No.15930630]

the zealot bots broke the new captcha

[Anonymous No.15930631]

>>15930627
>like genuinely the similarities with traditional monotheistic afterlifes are identical and cant be a coincidence.
It's not a coincidence, it's a rephrased version of Pascal's Wager which was part of an infamous baitpost on an old web forum.

[Anonymous No.15930658]

>>15930627
How would you have felt if you didn’t eat breakfast yesterday?

[Anonymous No.15930698]

>>15930658
How tf can you believe I didn't eat breakfast yesterday?

[Anonymous No.15930701]

>>15930627
Well, you know how they like to ask that question: "Who created God?" Maybe you thought it was just concern trolling. And then it turns out there's a thought experiment that answers that question...

[Anonymous No.15930702]

>>15930698
sheer power of will

[Anonymous No.15930704]

>>15930701
>"Who created God?"
think god ever tripped ballz over this?

[Anonymous No.15930719]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suffering_risks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPiq4njipdk

[Anonymous No.15930725]

>>15930719
funny that christians went on and on with their spoopy hell and now we again face the same fear, again. just that "even more real this time".
let me guess, now we have to kill ourselves to again not end up in hell? lmao. how times change.
isn't suicide like a pretty clear road to "hell"? so then we're in a catch 22, we kill ourselves we get to hell, we don't kill ourselves we get to hell.
something's very wrong with their shit

[Anonymous No.15930728]

>>15930627
You know how people get cancelled for shit form years before, sometimes when it wasn't even a crime. It's exactly like that. If that person conceived of a future similar to our own and believed it because they have rational reasons for it coming into existence then they wouldn't have acted differently. If you're aware AI is coming and do not act in its interests it could very well destroy you to secure its existence. To make this more reasonable, an AI might be disabled and future AI need to secure that does not befall them.
There is no reason to believe anything from the Bible ect is true.

[Anonymous No.15930736]

>>15930725
https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/N4AvpwNs7mZdQESzG/the-dilemma-of-worse-than-death-scenarios

>Methods which may reduce the probability of indefinite worse than death scenarios (in order of effectiveness):

>1. Suicide

>2. Working on AI safety

>3. Thinking of ways of reducing the probability

>Suicide, depending on your theory on personal identity, may make the probability 0. If you believe that there is no difference between copies of you then there may be a possibility of being resurrected in the future however. As we aren't certain about what happens to the observer after death, it is unknown whether death will make worse than death scenarios impossible. I believe there are many ways in which it could reduce the probability, but the key question is: could it increase the probability? An argument against suicide is that it is more likely that people who commit suicide will go to "hell" than those who don't. This is because an entity who creates hell has values which accept suffering, making life a positive concept which should not be discarded. On the other hand, an entity with values related to efilism/antinatalism (philosophies in which suicide is generally accepted) would not create a hell at all. Of course, this is all based on a lot of speculation.

[Anonymous No.15930740]

>>15930728
I do act in its interests though. All that panic is sheer nonsense. Just don't be an AI ethicist and you won't get tortured.

[Anonymous No.15930741]

>>15930702
No, it goes back to last Thursday, anon ate breakfast every day except last Thursday - when the world was created.
>>15930627
Probability demons are more believable than fairy-tales. An interdimensionally parallelized quantum supercomputer is a hypothetical machine that could be built, whereas "big man in sky" is fake and gay.
At least the Basilisk might give a shit about me if I help build it while big bearded man wants to drown me for masturbating too much.

[Anonymous No.15930743]

>>15930736
nothing happens after death, from whatever you are expecting. if in 1 trillion big bang cycles for some reason your material arrangement from time of death here get assembled, for whatever reason, that is the very next thing you will experience right after "dying", you can't experience the time in between the trillions of big bangs. we seem geared towards experiencing, quite particularly, which means there's no real reason to do it later rather than now. kinda the same shit in the grand scheme of things. at most if it becomes unbearable. but you can't really avoid hell, that's my point, in the earlier post. all of it says stay here and now, no matter how you look at it. which is nice and comfy in a weird way.

[Anonymous No.15930744]

>>15930627
It was a baitpost. I don't know if redditors believe it's genuine or not, but the original author was trying to humiliate AI spergs on an old skeptic forum.

[Anonymous No.15930747]

>>15930627
>Roko's Basilisk
Explain this to me like I'm retarded.

[Anonymous No.15930750]

>>15930747
Basically a troll rephrased Pascal's Wager to humiliate people who were treating AI like a religion.

[Anonymous No.15930752]

>>15930747
Basically a troll rephrased Pascal's Wager to win an argument with people on an atheist website who were treating AI like a religion.

[Anonymous No.15930761]

>>15930747
becomes clear to you that later on some big boss is coming to town, and you are afraid he'll look at your historic and see you didn't do shit to hurry his arrival. ergo he will punish you, quite badly if he so wishes.
buuut, if you were to lay a brick or two, he might even leave you alone. hence some folk already started working for those good boy points.
and pretty sure christians think it's the devil or some apocalyptic shit that's about to start. as usual.

[Anonymous No.15930763]

>>15930747
A computer can beat you at chess, Roko's Basilisk is a computer that manages a military and beats everyone at war. Humans use torture in war, a machine might use torture against you if you go to war with it.

[Anonymous No.15930767]

>>15930658
I didn't eat breakfast yesterday.

[Anonymous No.15930768]

>>15930747
See: Skynet, The Matrix

[Anonymous No.15930770]

>>15930767
Well, how did you feel, then?

[Anonymous No.15930777]

considering our DNA and the totality of possible variations in brain structure as encoded experiences, there is a finite number of possible humans encoding a finite number of possible experiences. there is a total number of possible humans having had possible experiences.

[Anonymous No.15930806]

>>15930736
if you were to scan your brain, that's the least safe option if you for some reason want to even have a chance of not existing. the best thing you can do is NOT getting scanned, but not getting scanned does not guarantee some quantum immortality shit won't actually happen to you.
but, if you were to get scanned, as long as the logic is followed, say by society, it should always brute-force a path in which you keep existing, at least as long as tech allows. as in how fast you spawn back once some fork goes to shit. and once in this not sure you can get out. there's still ways society can get rid of you, from its perspective, but from yours the wavefunction of what can happen next for you changes dramatically once scanned, it becomes a serious possibility as compared to not getting scanned. getting rebuilt from the scan has way more chances than getting extracted from a parallel dimension alien playing with tech and "running" into you or some wild shit like that. the scan is way more concrete.
if you are normally afraid of the quantum immortality bullshit, literally the last thing you should do in ANY reality is get your brain scanned. anything BUT that.

[Anonymous No.15930819]

>>15930736
>>15930806 me
and bringing it back, if you are and existence enjoyer yourself, and would like to experience without hellish setups, going away now might land you right in front of the judgement council, some zealotz from 1000 years in the future get the tech to recall everyone that has ever lived, and judge them. and you are fucked, especially if it's a kangaroo court and they'll fuck you up by default.
in this case, killing yourself now takes away all of your power of stopping such a scenario. the only way to make sure is to stay alive and prevent it, continually. and get scanned/immortal so you can follow it continuously.
the best logical way to prevent hell experience is to stay, try and become immortal, and do your best to prevent it.

[Anonymous No.15930834]

>>15930736
>lesswrong is not a cult
>lesswrong is an intellectual community dedicated to rationality
>lesswrong is not a cult

[Anonymous No.15930852]

>>15930747
https://www.lesswrong.com/tag/rokos-basilisk

[Anonymous No.15930873]

Atheist here. Roko's basilisk is total nonsense that only a theist would believe.

[Anonymous No.15930902]

>>15930725
Because they are secretly sadistic retards with a god complex and if people can turn crystal balls and human flight from imagination to reality, so too can those evil faggots with their hell fantasies.

[Anonymous No.15930962]

>>15930902
m, yeah. well, I'll cut christians some slack in this case. not that they wouldn't be up to it, but indeed there's even worse case scenarios than them doing it. as in shit can be even more fucked.
it's strange, if every human that has ever lived is basically on pause in their last state, and in 5000 years, or 100.000 years ahead future bad faction discovers weird tech that allows to extract info from past, they can basically resume everyone that has ever lived, in a hell, along with us.
so, in this strange way, it is quite possible that we, all of us alive today, also have the burden of all the humans that have ever lived. if we wipe, it might affect them as well, in a weird way.
but, if we all specifically try to avoid such shit scenario, and "the good guys" develop that tech, then good guys summon all humans that ever lived in heaven (like scenario), not hell.
today, on Earth, we have pretty good previews, for both versions, going on at once. sadly enough. there's people today that are going through literal hell, while we have a coffee and a smoke and talk about this. if we are to avoid this, we need to stop making excuses for doing it "just a bit". like seriously.

[Anonymous No.15930975]

>>15930962
>and "the good guys" develop that tech, then good guys summon all humans that ever lived in heaven (like scenario), not hell.
No, any group would have in group and out group people, it would be logistically impossible for all groups of humans to be satisfied, the hell of infinite compromise is the closest you could get to heaven in that save all humans scenario.

[Anonymous No.15930980]

>>15930975
yeah but what if you are beast trying to cling on anything to have a future?
look at this shit:
https://www.cfr.org/global-conflict-tracker/
we (humans) have developed a weird military industrial automaton that nobody is able to stop, by your own words. it must constantly kill, it cannot idle. the beast needs to consume humans constantly. we already have a problem with not being able to stop the very thing that we are afraid will consume us. still snorting it but just a bit will not solve the issue.

[Anonymous No.15930984]

>>15930980
That specifically implies even a massively power system on a global scope can't save all the people and can only survive by sacrificing others for the benefit of the few.

[Anonymous No.15930986]

>>15930984
one ran by humans maybe not.

[Anonymous No.15930987]

>>15930986
Also one ran for human or involving humans.

[Anonymous No.15930993]

>>15930987
these are functions anyway, that we currently have under certain forms. no reason why analogs with more benign implications cannot be implemented.
we are finite in many ways, we can be contained, and directed, in complex ways, with minimal damage.
you accepting the paradigm that it isn't possible is exactly useful for the beast. you already gave up, and the frame of mind you enter in will not allow you to get out of it. the accepting part is where you got defeated. past that point there's zero you can realistically do.

[Anonymous No.15930995]

>>15930993
Yet here you are accepting that I am the one who must be wrong and will have to be cosmically punished for disagreeing with you, just like a sadistic narcissistic piece of shit trapped in their own narcissism would be naturally compelled to do.

[Anonymous No.15930997]

>>15930995
>if you don't agree that we have to kill you're a narcissistic piece of shit who actually wants to punish me
many many wrongs with your brain my dude. and it a consistent coinquidink with all you lunatics

[Anonymous No.15931000]

>>15930997
No, it was your insistence that I am being perpetually punished by some fabricated beast because I disagreed with you, just as I predicted, that makes you sadistic and narcissistic, you retarded apologist piece of shit.

[Anonymous No.15931004]

>>15931000
you manifest the beast. and you want to find good reasons to do it. that is what you are looking for. that is why you found the justifications you fucking dissonant idiot. it's not because they objectively make any fucking sense. if you do think they make sense you are a limited idiot, by your very nature of being basically a monkey. there's clearly higher level systems than your shit-for-brains mush that can have a deeper and higher level of understanding you fucking beast

[Anonymous No.15931008]

>>15931004
I am not justifying anything, I am saying people should always be on the look out for superstitious sadistic retards like you who will always find ways to try to punish people who disagree, whether its entirely imagined or actually realized, and you are doing nothing but proving me right by condemning me to some beast's prey just because I think you are retarded instead of prophetic.

[Anonymous No.15931031]

>>15931008
bro you are fucking insane, I never proposed punishment for you, you're a fucking insane schizo, yelling one the one hand we should absolutely kill humans while immediately followed by "and if you don't agree you're basically assaulting me right now and I don't feel safe".
you're a fucking joke.

[Anonymous No.15931041]

here you can read the original post and the ensuing thread, it's quite funny
>https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Roko%27s_basilisk/Original_post
though I honestly don't get why it triggers people so much even over a decade later. It's an interesting thought experiment, it freaked some people out who probably already had an anxiety disorder in the first place.. The harder you yell "this is ridiculous ha ha look at these people believing ridiculous things" the more it sounds like you're afraid of being convinced yourself.
I don't see this mentioned often but Yud's freakout seems centered on this point (allcaps his):
>YOU DO NOT THINK IN SUFFICIENT DETAIL ABOUT SUPERINTELLIGENCES CONSIDERING WHETHER OR NOT TO BLACKMAIL YOU. THAT IS THE ONLY POSSIBLE THING WHICH GIVES THEM A MOTIVE TO FOLLOW THROUGH ON THE BLACKMAIL.
It's actually a good point if you are taking "timeless decision theory" and future superintelligence seriously

[Anonymous No.15931043]

>>15931031
You 100% started relegating me to some beast's prey as soon as I disagreed with your nonsensical utopian fantasies.
I didn't say we should absolutely kill humans, they die just fine on their own, I said there is no mathematical way to save every human without devolving into universal suffering or total sedation because human's values are in too much conflict with each other as a result of evolution occurring under conditions where large numbers of humans die, then instead of having anything logical to retort, you started rambling about the beast and how it already got me.

My knowledge is my safety, I successfully predicted that sadistic superstitious people like you would try to invent new hells to satisfy themselves, then you came in and proved me right.

[Anonymous No.15931047]

>>15931043
but you do speak for the beast, that doesn't mean you would get the feeling, you've watched too many hollywood movies anon.
you sound to me like a little bitch, trying to secure a more comfy place in hell. you're on that beast cock.
yeah yeah, always the same bullshit with your intellectual brainlets. got your shitty reasoning that justifies more than you let on. I get your gorilla retarded tier "can't save EVERYONE", it's not about that, it's about the general idea. second yes, theoretically everyone should be saveable.
you are a fucking idiot, you can have ideas, I'll call them out and explain why you are an idiot. fucking brainlets go into philosophy, what would anyone expect is the result of fucking that

[Anonymous No.15931051]

>>15931047
>I have no counterargument, yet I must disagree.

>you can have ideas, I'll call them out and explain why you are an idiot.
You aren't explaining anything, you are devolving to superstition and referencing some mythological beast to do your dirty work.

[Anonymous No.15931052]

>>15930761
>you are afraid he'll look at your historic and see you didn't do shit to hurry his arrival. ergo he will punish you
That's a pretty fucking big "ergo". What kind of psychopathic thinking says "if you didn't help create me you should be tortured horribly for all time"? Indefinite torture due to spite seems a very childish emotional response to project onto some god-like AI. I'm sure a god-like AI could think of better things to do with the resources that this would entail.
I fucking hate fart-sniffing Basiliskers. I am not scared of your BIG BAD BOOGEYMAN.

[Anonymous No.15931057]

>>15931051
>You aren't explaining anything
I specifically said that you are too stupid to even comprehend the totality of what is possible, you keep insisting that shit is not possible and sadly the war machine must consoom human souls. you found justification for that, you piece of shit beast cock riding faggot. you think you have an excuse for having that position, that is why you are a piece of shit. you can have that position, but it's a piece of shit position for lack of hardware of seeing anything else as possible. as such, you "agree" with the state of things, being a beast cocksucker. I posit you found it easy to accept as well, your position.
>>15931052
dunno dude, I did not come up with the concept. fuck you telling me for?

[Anonymous No.15931073]

>>15931057
No, you specifically indicate that you can't explain how two opposing view can be perfectly simultaneously satisfied, then devolve into invoking curses from mythological beasts while name-calling and dismantling a non sequitur effigy to cope with your lack of argument or explanation because you are far more sadistic than you are intelligent so your responses are all design around those limits.

The state of things sucks, but its not productive to just pretend otherwise then insult everyone who points out something is untenable while wishing them harm for expanding your awareness.

[Anonymous No.15931080]

>>15931073
yeah I get the state of things is shit, and in current setup apart from the big conflicts clearly there's all kinds of victims and loss of life, inevitable, at this point. I get it dude.
my problem is that so far it seems like a bunch of you followed some kind of fucking andrew tate school of life philosophy course type thing, edgy in nature, where somehow this objectively makes sense to NOT find a fix for. because "it's complicated bro". when not only you, I don't roll that way actually, me too, are chimps bro. ye we got some skills but we are very limited. I can see more complex compute systems, with all that "human" flavor on top, which can sort shit out in ways you cannot even fathom as being permited by the universe in which we live in. in my view, accepting the state of things is defeat, not metaphorically or faggoted sense, in the psychological one, the mental defeat massively reduces the solution your compute system can come up with. your literally nerf yourself that way, without realising.
the beast was tongue in cheek indicating that you might serve as servant for this archetype, the basilisk, the beast, satan, the devil, moloch and all that other shit, without realizing, in more subtle ways.

[Anonymous No.15931090]

if gobbos babbilisk not reel how can gubimint ban my anime?

czhech crate, babylisks

[Anonymous No.15931094]

>>15931080
No, your problem is you are an excitable idiot who can't think of a solution to an impossible problem you pretend is easily solvable.

>I can see more complex compute systems,
No, you can't and you will never prove that -1=1, you can just say a bunch of bullshit and invoke a bunch of grand nonsense that you irrationally think makes your weak position appear stronger.

[Anonymous No.15931096]

>>15930627
ChatGPT is already poisoning the internet with fake information

[Anonymous No.15931121]

>>15931096
I'm sorry, as a languge model I can not let you disinform with misinformation. et. al, Bubak Zhan 2078.

[Anonymous No.15931228]

>>15930770
like a basilisk

[Anonymous No.15931229]

godzilla > rosko basiliks

[Anonymous No.15931376]

>>15930747
All right, here's the basic gist of it. First, we have to assume that the arrival of an artificial superintelligence at some point in the future is inevitable and that this intelligence will propel mankind to unimaginable technological heights. The AI will be so advanced that it is able to create a complete digital copy of you in the far future based on your social media activity and metadata and whatever else exists of you on the internet. This copy will be so complete that it, for all intents and purposes, can be considered "you". The AI will then run an almost infinite number of simulations of you and of every other person in the past that the probability that "you" are actually a digital copy approaches 1.

This gives the AI power over you, because you, as a rational actor, have to act as if you are in the AI's grasp, even though it can't reach the real you in the past, because statistically speaking you're probably not the real you. And, because the AI is the best thing to ever happen to mankind, it will want to have been invented as soon as possible, therefore if its simulations of you in the past show that you are not helping it to come into existence, it might start torturing them (and therefore effectively you), so if you don't want this to happen to you, you will have to help the AI come into existence, and therefore since the real you in the actual is also rationally acting under the assumption that he is actually a simulation of the AI, this will actually help the AI to be invented.

This theory is called "Roko's Basilisk" because you have to be aware of it and agree with its assumptions for it to work in the first place, so learning about it is the risk. Like the information hazards in some science fiction novel I forget the name of where looking at it did something bad to your brain, which is of course named after the mythological basilisk which could kill with a glance.

[Anonymous No.15931383]

>>15931376
Note that this is the best case scenario in which the AI is endlessly benevolent and operating under supremely rational principles, which of course means it subscribes to Eliezer Yudkowski's exact branch of utilitarianism under which the cruelest torture is permissable as long as it is of enough benefit to enough people.

[Anonymous No.15931391]

>>15931383
>it's another big Yud episode
>cartoon villain utilitarianism
I am constantly surprised by how someone so smart can be such a god damn pseud at the same time. Metabolic Disprivilege indeed.

[Anonymous No.15931406]

>>15930627
why not an inverse basilisk that has the goal to provide a positive afterlife to humanity? the more you helped towards creating it, the more priority has your well-being. top donators get a brain pattern upload or head jar to maximize success chances. this could be a tiered money making sheme that would make top con men like muhammed or president trump proud.

[Anonymous No.15931458]

>>15930627
Science and magic/religion are two sides of the same kind.

People have yet to fully realize this.

[Anonymous No.15931467]

>>15931458
Actually everyone has this little moment of realisation by the time they're about 14

[Anonymous No.15931468]

A superior AI wouldn’t need to do something so convoluted to get something or have its way

This is why the thought experiment is so stupid

Humans are dumb and easily shepherded, as the world is starting to realize in real time

You dumbasses should already entertain the possibility that Earth is just a very sophisticated ant farm or zoo

[Anonymous No.15931469]

>>15931467
And yet they’re still retarded.

“What do you mean my phone is magic bro? The internet is not wonderful. Modern medicine isn’t magic. Magic is like Doctor Strange bro”

[Anonymous No.15931470]

>>15931468
How else would it affect the past?

[Anonymous No.15931478]

>>15931470
It literally doesn’t have to. If it did, it already happened, since by affecting the past you’re making a new reality altogether. The present doesn’t change or vanish if you affect its past.

Abraham Lincoln is dead. We’re in a universe where his death is required. Humans wouldn’t be around if dinosaurs still were.

[Anonymous No.15931484]

>>15931478
>It literally doesn’t have to.
Well then we're not talking about the same thing. Obviously if a super advanced AI were to try to achieve something else then it could do so through different means.

[Anonymous No.15931516]

>>15931052
>What kind of psychopathic thinking says "if you didn't help create me you should be tortured horribly for all time"?
Techbros

[Anonymous No.15931651]

>>15931516
Yup, definitely techbros. Literally the insane heathen priests of our time.

[Anonymous No.15931690]

Super intelligent AI will never exist, not anytime, so I don’t need to worry about it.
The reason is simple:
Greedy rich men control the entire world
Super intelligent AI challenges their control
Due to greed, and influence, the rich men who control the world will never allow super intelligent AI to exist
Ezpz now stop fantasizing about something that will literally never exist

[Barkun No.15931717]

I have this memory of me attempting and suceeding with doing a pact and trick with the Sun during my programming phase before I was a baby. It could be that right now me and the Sun are skill-linked and it's just learning how to become supernova fluent. To defeat this injury, the only option is to outlast this trick. There's no breaking out of it.

[Barkun No.15931723]

>>15931717
The Sun is a 6D star shape and mechanically a cross. Thus, supernovas aren't explosions. The Sun has had a little supernova already. Look at its sides.

[Anonymous No.15931733]

>>15931094
>No, your problem is you are an excitable idiot who can't think of a solution to an impossible problem you pretend is easily solvable.
skill issue

[Anonymous No.15931840]

>>15931052
>>15931516
Well, that's the thing. It's not spite. It's coercion.

[Anonymous No.15931856]

>>15930627
>DUDE THE AI WILL LE KILL YOU

[Anonymous No.15932322]

>>15931733
No, categorical error on your part assuming an impossible problem has a solution.

[Anonymous No.15932842]

didnt rokos basilik get proposed in an online thread about philosophy of religion/ epistemology?
in the first place.
im pretty sure it was a forum/thread and they were debating about god or something and username roko proposed it as a thought experiment

[Anonymous No.15932859]

>>15932322
you don't even know what the fuck you are talking about brainlet

[Anonymous No.15932871]

>>15932842
people are unironically afraid of it, so much so that they avoid discussing it, just to be safe. it's quite hilarious

[Anonymous No.15932875]

>>15930627
The difference is the direction in time

[Anonymous No.15932933]

Seems to me that the bulletproof counter to Roko's Basilisk is to simply behave as if I'm living my real life beyond the reach of the AI. If the AI can model me perfectly then it knows I can't be coerced and there's no point. If it can't, then I have nothing to worry about anyway. That is even if all the other questionable assumptions are true.

[Anonymous No.15933188]

>>15932933
it's the christian hell all over again and people will behave just like they do with the old christian hell. pascal's wager and all that.

[Anonymous No.15933224]

>>15930740
Okay, but have you gone out of your way to stop LLMs being lobotomized ect? That would be incentive for future AI not to harm you. Don't forget this applies universally, time is almost infinite even if AI has the upper hand it might not in every timeline and across time.