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/sci/ - Science & Math


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15897535 No.15897535 [Reply] [Original]

Are academia and science fundamentally incompatible?

>> No.15897810

>>15897535
Maybe scientists should not be judged on how many times their papers are cited or on their discoveries, but instead on the benefit of their research in real world applications. That way publishing useless or fraudulent data wouldn't get them anywhere.

>> No.15897891

>>15897535
Yes if you are a nutcase.

>> No.15898839

>>15897535
Yes

>> No.15898905

Ghislaine Maxwell's father purchased McGraw-Hill textbooks in 1989, putting him in control of America's largest scholastic textbook company.

>> No.15898911

>>15897535
Heinlein was a pedo wacko.

>> No.15898912

>>15898905
Lol I can't tell whether this is (1) an attempt to color Ghislaine Maxwell's father by the actions of his daughter, (2) an attempt to color Ghislaine Maxwell by the actions of her father, or (3) a euphemism for "Jeffrey Epstein didn't kill himself."

>> No.15899215 [DELETED] 

>>15898911
>can't attack the central point of the argument
>attack the source instead
you're pretty much admitting that he is right and you are wrong

>> No.15899437

>>15897810
>Maybe scientists should be judged on the benefit of their research in real world applications

anon has just discovered capitalism

>> No.15900600

>>15898911
Heinlein was the poster child for "IT'S NOT PEDOPHILIA IT'S EPHEBOPHILIA!!!" Which was actually not much of a problem when his audience was teenage boys and he wrote MCs who blushed at the thought of holding hands with a girl. Later on it got pretty weird, but LL the ur-MC did at least wait until his autogynephilia wish-fulfillment sex swapped twin clones of himself were pubescent before he "allowed himself to be seduced by them." Then he traveled back in time, fucked his own mom, high-five his five-year-old self, played chess with his grandpa, and got gutted by a Gerry.

>> No.15900641

>>15899437
Capitalism murders all quests for knowledge that don't fit the darwinistic and hedonistic paradigms of value. Humanity is doomed without ''useless'' research.

>> No.15901125

>>15900641
>rrrreeeeeeeee! muh capitalism
>>>/pol/

>> No.15901859

>>15897535
Yes, theres a good reason why universities never make any significant scientific discoveries and that reason is explained in OP picrel

>> No.15902508 [DELETED] 

>>15897535
Yes, 100%. Retarded shitlibs will always ask why people keep bringing up culture war shit when it comes to science. The answer is that academia has been overtaken by shitlibs with defective brains and you can't do good science with shit for brains.

>> No.15902517 [DELETED] 

>>15898911
He was, but he's still right about this and you're using the genetic fallacy like all good shitlibs.

>> No.15902824

>>15899437
capitalism doesn't exist. research wouldn't exist at all, little modern technological advancement either, if we had your ideal of capitalism.

>> No.15903541

>>15902508
>The answer is that academia has been overtaken by shitlibs with defective brains and you can't do good science with shit for brains.
those are atheists

>> No.15903764 [DELETED] 

>>15903541
Yes, what we need is christfags doing "sience" and constantly trying to prove jewish mythology true because of their madness.

>> No.15903817

>>15897535
its important to keep these two things in mind, but the opinion is still influenced by overly liberal thinking. Science itself is highly liberal because it reflects the liberal enlightenment view that general ideas and universal constants should be highly valued. That knowledge is effectively building up universally applicable general truths that we can then use to understand things by way of starting our investigation of any phenomena by comparing it to these universal rules.

The scientific method was devised by people who regularly used other ways of thinking in their daily lives, but saw the economy in isolating general ideas. Being used to pre-liberal thinking however their worldview was one of needing to be constantly on guard against delusions or biases, and while pre-scientific thinking always cautioned against being careless to combat this, the thinkers realized that once generalized thinking became normal it would be very easy to become tricked.

So a method of excruciating redundancy and verification was devised so that ideas and principals that did pass the test could be depended on.

The problem is that we are now overly liberalzed and have forgotten the legitimacy of other ways of thinking, indoctrinated to think these general principals are the only way to think. But science cannot verify ideas fast enough or abstract enough under its original formulation, and so we bend the rules, try to adjust it, and wiggle around untill the filter lets all manor of things pass through it, but since we have lost the inherent caution that pre-scientific thinking required else one become consumed by demons or somesuch, we trust these unverified ideas far easier than people of the past would have.

The criticism against heinlein then is just that his thinking is employing the liberal style absolutes that make academia possible. Despite nothing he said being wrong, his framing of it as opposition of absolutes is itself wrong.

Humans must find temperance

>> No.15903827

This is a good video here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6N6KROFc6Q
actually its kind of a bad video because its longer than it needs to be and ponderous, but it contains good information and some decent takes if anyone cares to sit through it
disclaimer: im a schizo

>> No.15904111
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15904111

>>15903764
>hay guise look at me!!!
>i'm being totally edgy and insulting religions!!!
>am i cool yet!?!?!

>> No.15904141
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15904141

https://youtube.com/watch?v=hVxvLd6cF0k - Against Method and For 'Pseudoscience' - Luke Smith
https://youtube.com/watch?v=j12BBcKSgEQ - The scientific method is crap: Teman Cooke at TEDxLancaster - TEDx Talks

>> No.15904234

>>15897535
>Are academia and science fundamentally incompatible?
Not at all. At some point one has to recognize that it is truly impossible for one person to replicate all scientific experiments done throughout history and verify all scientific knowledge themselves. It's truly impossible.
That's what certifications and reputations are for, so that we can minimaly trust other scientists based on their past record. The process is not infallible, obviously, but it has worked throught history. I mean, look around you, the results are in, everywhere! :)

>> No.15904238

>>15904141
>The scientific method is crap
The philosophy of science examines and studies the scientific method, exploring its principles, assumptions, and implications. Criticisms of the scietific method are welcomed for constant improvements.

>> No.15904892

>>15900641
Explain why people on a societal level should value pursuits of knowledge that don't have either practical application or at least entertainment value

>> No.15904894

>>15897535
Blackpill:
Humanity and science are fundamentally incompatable. Science is a discipline, a way of empirically and collectively narrowing down what is and isn't true. What Humans want, however, is an all encompassing doctrine and way of believing, a religion, that will tell them what is or isn't true based on what some authority says.

>> No.15904941

>>15904141
>TEDx
into the trash it goes!

>> No.15905141

>>15904234
>it is truly impossible for one person to replicate all scientific experiments done throughout history
because most of them aren't replicable

>> No.15905533

>>15897535
atheism and science are incompatible, acadumia is currently dominated by atheists. back when all of the formerly Christian universities were still Christian institutions academia was productive.

>> No.15905597

>>15905141
The replications crisis is mostly a problem in biomedical research and much moreso a problem in soft "sciences" like psychology and sociology. The hard sciences like physics and chemistry have their own issues with reproducibility, but it's a blip on the radar.

The bigger problem in physics especially now is the overreliance on modelling as a substitution for empirical data. We've gone down a rabbit hole of letting theories build on top of theories with now experimental, empirical bedrock on which to base them. But that's another matter.

But back to anon's point, there is simply not enough time for any individual, even with limitless resources, to replicate all the major experiments of any major field. Christ - the average college physics class is lucky if the professor can drag the students through a dozen lab activities in a semester.

>> No.15905608

>>15897535
That's what people say after they get their third or fourth grant proposal rejected.

>> No.15905612

>>15897810
What's your proposed timeline? How soon should a result be monetised?

>> No.15905686
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15905686

>>15905597

>> No.15906852
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15906852

>>15905597
>the overreliance on modelling as a substitution for empirical data

>> No.15906901

>>15897535
worse than that. any pursuit that requires honesty is incompatible with employment/professionalism of any kind. you can't trust anyone who is on a leash like that.

>> No.15907690

>>15906901
employees are slaves, they are entirely dependent on their masters

>> No.15908626 [DELETED] 

>>15897535
Yes, academics can't do real science, if they could then they wouldn't be in academia, they'd be doing something useful with themselves and earning more than a 5 figure salary

>> No.15908692

>>15905597
If an experiment can't afford to be replicated, then why is it considered science? It served no utility. It provided no reason for investigation. It offers no confirmed basis. It isn't even interesting enough to be confirmed. It is the quintessential homework problem, except the student made up their own question. And it was completely irrelevant to the field.
There are other explanations. Maybe good science can't be replicated because everyone is trying to cheese the funding system. However, this means the supposed intellectual elite are retards with no ability to even discern what is valuable.
Which elements of science are similar to the techmuller theory? It seems that only a theoretical science could reach a level where only one in ten million scientists could understand.

And what about the cutting edge science? It seems to indicate a funding issue where they need multi-billion dollar sites to generate strange energy states and divine the cosmic mystery out of its bowels.
Maybe this is off the mark because midwits control science now and so it is destined for failure. By whatever means.

>> No.15909240

>>15908692
>If an experiment can't afford to be replicated, then why is it considered…
…useful?
imagine doing an experiment and nobody cared to verify the results at all, yet thats nearly all of the experiments that make it into the journals

>> No.15909261

>>15908692
>If an experiment can't afford to be replicated, then why is it considered science?
Becuase the experimental setup is thought of, implemented, reviwed, and performed through the scientific method. Becuase the resulting data is also analysed using the scientific method. And, yes, scientists are well aware of the limitiations of having a unique, prototypical experimental setup, like the James Webb Space Telescope, for example, or the LHC at CERN. All those results are scrupulously analysed for inconsistencies, flaws, and wrong conclusions.
Sometimes, some of these exoensive experiments become replicable because lab equipment becomes more affordale, or because other forms of cheaper experiments are invented to reach more verifiable data.

>> No.15910606

>>15909261
no it isn't, peer review is just a rubber stamp for cooperative zogbots, if it were genuinely a review of consistency then the replication crisis would never have come to be

>> No.15911197

>>15910606
This, the replication crisis disproves the myth of the effectiveness of peer review

>> No.15912536

>>15897535
Correct, academia is incapable of doing science. If they were capable they wouldn't have the spare time to spend wiping the asses of 20 and 30 year old babies that are still in school, they'd be too busy doing important science work

>> No.15912546

>>15897810
Maybe scientists shouldn't be cancelled when their research produces empirical data that offends some people. (E.g.: Genes and racial differences.)

>> No.15912961

>>15912546
Genetics is mostly bullshit. Everything gets blamed on genes.

>> No.15913022

>>15907690
We’re all slaves to reality in the end

>> No.15913329

>>15909261
>YOU JUST GOTTA TRUST THE SOIENCE, OK GOY!!!!
nope
the soience crowd has long since made it clear that they're willing to lie about anything for any reason so nobody trusts them anymore. they can keep on publishing their lies in their journals that nobody reads, its not going to influence anyone or ever make a difference, nobody cares anymore.

>> No.15914365
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15914365

>>15913329
This, the science ideology that was birthed by Christians has been subsequently murdered by atheists

>> No.15914375

>>15914365
This is such a retarded way of thinking about it. The scientific world view made the atheists. Even the christians of today are larping atheists. There are no true believers anymore, just a bunch of grifting protestants, and converts to catholicism and eastern orthodoxy desperate to feel anything. Christianity has never been weaker, but it's not the atheists' fault. After all, as you pointed it out, the Christians made this.

>> No.15916018

>>15914375
>oy vey muh atheists, they dindu nuffin!!!!
wrong, atheists took all the objectivity out of science and brought progress to a screeching halt

>> No.15916652

>>15904111
lol
good pic, atheists got black soience man mentality and iq level

>> No.15918008

>>15897535
Academia is about memorizing textbook content and science is about disregarding or disproving textbook content, they're opposites

>> No.15919115

>>15906852
computer modeling: i programmed all my preconceived notions into the computer and the computer confirmed that all of my preconceived notions are correct.
its just circular logic

>> No.15919117

>>15898912
no, you missed the point entirely. The point is that subversive, destructive jews control the publication industry and fill our kids' heads with their filthy lies

>> No.15919122

>>15897810
>Maybe scientists should not be judged on how many times their papers are cited or on their discoveries,
Only academia does that. The rest of the world looks at provable accomplishments, not mutual butt sniffing.

>> No.15920447

>>15919122
if only it were true, the finance industry runs entirely on jews nepotism

>> No.15921210

>>15897535
You know Heinlein also advocated fucking your brother and sister, right? In a three-way even. He's written multiple books on it.

>> No.15921271

>>15897535
On paper? Certainly not. In practice? Most of the time. Heinlein's weirdness notwithstanding, he had a pretty good point there; the artificial valuation of peer acceptance over actual, pragmatic work being done is really stripping away a lot of the actual innovation.

That said, the scientific method gets taken too purely by some people: you cannot start from the ground up for every single concept, but you should always question that which has not been demonstratably proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Modern academia's just a circlejerk of who can get spotlight time, there's next to no actual science being performed, but the purists who think you can't trust anything are just as brainless at times. It's part of why I hung up my degree and just snagged a desk job.

>> No.15922269
File: 56 KB, 850x400, quote-we-are-trying-to-prove-ourselves-wrong-as-quickly-as-possible-because-only-in-that-way-richard-p-feynman-35-42-03.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15922269

>>15916018
Theres a big difference between an atheistic narcissist who needs to be right all the time and an honest humble Christian that wants learn by being shown where he is wrong

>> No.15923522

>>15921210
So what you're trying to tell us is that you're incapable of refuting whats said in the text in OP pic which upsets you and makes you angry, so you've chosen to attack the source instead.
Have you considered the possibility that you can't refute the text in OP pic because its correct? Does the term "irrefutable" mean anything to you?

>> No.15925058

>>15911197
>the replication crisis disproves the myth of the effectiveness of peer review
sure, but you'll never get a group of people who's careers depend on peer review to agree on that so no changes or improvements will ever be made

>> No.15925525

>>15922269
feynman was an athiest jew. lol.

>> No.15926794

>>15923522
>So what you're trying to tell us is that you're incapable of refuting whats said in the text in OP pic which upsets you and makes you angry, so you've chosen to attack the source instead.
yes, exactly

>> No.15927713 [DELETED] 

>>15925525
yes but that only means that he may have plagiarized that quote from someone decent.

>> No.15928640

>>15927713
successful jews are the ones who pick the best sources for plagiarism

>> No.15929439

>>15928640
Einstein plagiarized Maxwell, that was some high IQ plagiarism, Maxwell was a brilliant guy

>> No.15930294

>>15919115
Computer modeling is pure garbage and should never be taken seriously

>> No.15930864

>>15898911
>i can't dispute the central point of the message so i'll attack the source instead
so you're admitting that the central point of the message is indisputable

>> No.15931994

>>15930864
yes

>> No.15933304

>>15928640
>>15929439
Similar wisdom: don't bother trying to steal money from the poor

>> No.15933452

Academia is pure garbage. It demotivates students who actually want to do research with the proper scientific method. I, for a final master project, had to fit kinetic data for the simple aspirin reaction. My data didn't fit the expected second order kinetic equation, but my supervisor was in complete denial that it didn't fit.
2 months later i quit because he couldn't move past it. I'm still not sure why that typical reaction didn't fit the theory tho. Maybe related to the solvent effect but i guess humanity will never find out

>> No.15933464

>>15897535
This just shows that humans suck at communicating information, or just accepting information. They’d rather just shut up and fit into a clique.

>> No.15933507 [DELETED] 

Academia is the Government elected teacher sort. It's just like being delegated a sword from some master. Whatever the case, you're under this one master. I wouldn't call academia the most honest master, since it claims to be godlike 'the only acceptable knowledge sort'. It's not. You can learn more than they can teach if you employ the right tool.

>> No.15933513 [DELETED] 
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15933513

>>15933507
It is a masterful sword though, mysterious and great. You can go far with it. It's just not for me. It misses too much out. I went further this way.

>> No.15933522 [DELETED] 

>>15933513
The sword I use metaphorically was produced via overproduction of thought until it collapsed and caused me to hallucinate an idea factory. Still under such hallucination.

>> No.15933592

>>15909261
>Becuase the experimental setup is thought of, implemented, reviwed, and performed through the scientific method.
To what degree? To what degree of "genuine instance of usage of scientific method"?

>> No.15934293

>>15933452
>the proper scientific method
thats just mythology, it doesn't exist in practice, it only exists a propaganda tool to get people to trrust the soiyence.
"journalistic ethics" and "the hippocratic oath" exist for the same purpose, to get gullible idiots to place their trust in frauds

>> No.15934320

>>15902824
>commie retardbabble

>> No.15934323

>>15900641
>Capitalism murders all quests for knowledge that don't fit the darwinistic and hedonistic paradigms of value.
Their long-standing existence under capitalism proves you wrong.

>> No.15935443

>>15901859
>Yes, theres a good reason why universities never make any significant scientific discoveries and that reason is explained in OP picrel
They're confusing the issue by filling up the universities with diversity hires, soon they'll be able to blame the universities inability to deliver quality research on blacks and women

>> No.15935450

>>15897535
hegel's science?, yes

>> No.15936461

>>15935443
the jews always try to scapegoat their goylems after they've destroyed a white nation

>> No.15936560
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15936560

>>15897535

>> No.15936564
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15936564

>>15936461

>> No.15937369

>>15936560
I'm a Fairfax County public schools graduate. Ask your answers

>> No.15938365

>>15935443
>soon they'll be able to blame the universities inability to deliver quality research on blacks and women
thats already the case today. when was the last time any university research project delivered anything of meaningful use or value?

>> No.15938966

>>15938365
>when was the last time any university research project delivered anything of meaningful use or value?
Never?

>> No.15940132

>>15937369
how much child sex trafficking and pedo rape were you subject to growing up in glownigger county?

>> No.15941072

>>15940132
None, but I know people who were when I was in elementary school and in jr high. I lived pretty close to CIA headquarters back then, I'm a little further away now, but not all too much. I once witnessed a 4 year old boy being sacrificed to Baal, I wish I was joking about that, but I'm not. It was a very disturbing scene.

>> No.15941579

>>15925525
He was a communist. Completely disloyal to the country that gave him a prestigious career and made him famous.

>> No.15942617

>>15941579
Gosh, a jew stabbing it's host nation in the back?
How completely unusual and unheard of

>> No.15943551
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15943551

>>15942617

>> No.15944895

>>15919117
this
school text books and other learning materials are as fake and gay as any television news program

>> No.15945632

>>15944895
Thats why going to school makes you dumber

>> No.15945644

>>15897535
Science is the art of practice. If you dont practice, you dont know shit. Conjectures in paper are dime a dozen and are not worth the paper they're printed on.

Aka show proof of work

>> No.15946536
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15946536

>>15945644

>> No.15947171

>>15945644
None of the papers published in scientific journals are worth the paper they're printed on, they're all lies and other flim flam. No paper published so far this century has been worth a dime

>> No.15947329

the opposite of diversity is university

>> No.15948370
File: 551 KB, 365x400, vibe.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15948370

>>15947329
>SCIENCE: BELIEVED
>RENT: PAID
>twitter SCREENSHOT thread: POSTED
>SOIjak thread: REPORTED
>NETFLIX: CHILLED
>VASECTOMY: RECOVERING
>REDDIT: GILDED AND GOLDED
>COMPUTER: MAC
>WIFE: BLACKED
>WALLS: EXPOSED BRICK
>NINTENDO SWITCH ONLINE EXPANSION PACK: PURCHASED
>T: LOW
>MEAT: IMPOSSIBLE
>MOUTH: AGAPE
>FACIAL HAIR: SCRAGGLY
>WATER: FLUORIDATED
>DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE: VOTED
>ANTIDEPRESSANTS: PRESCRIBED
>COOKIES: ACCEPTED
>LGBT: ALLIED
>GPS LOCATION: ON
>BLACK LIVES: MATTER
>SUBSCRIPTION IPA: SIPPING
>HOT SAUCE: ACQUIRED!
>NINTENDO SWITCH OLED POKéMON SCARLET AND VIOLET LIMITED EDITION: PREORDERED!!!!!

>> No.15948387

>>15919122
>The rest of the world looks at provable accomplishments, not mutual butt sniffing.
Oh no no no
HAHAHAHAHA

Underage detected.

>> No.15948853

>>15948387
>Underage detected.
projection

>> No.15949733

>>15944895
school text books and other learning materials are designed to make people believe in television programs
and vice versa

>> No.15950255
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15950255

>>15934293
those aren't the only things which are mere propaganda tools
>oy vey you live in a free country with constitutional guaranteed freedom of speech
>you have total freedom to say whatever you want
>oh hold on looks like you said the n word once back in 2002 so you're canceled, you're never allowed to work in any profession ever again

>> No.15951125

>>15897535
No. It's just humans being duplicitous and paying lip service the moral high ground of objectivity, while being dogmatic pack animals. So the most human (bad version), while pretending at being human (best version: independent thinker). Remember they didn't welcome Galelio.

>> No.15951898

>>15950255
unless you're black, then you can plagiarize freely and say whatever you want without fear of repercussion