[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/sci/ - Science & Math

View post   
File: 1.52 MB, 2400x1350, magic_mushrooms-1289017175.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15871825 No.15871825 [Reply] [Original]

How does science explain the consciousness bending effects of psychedelics?

>> No.15871830

>>15871825
Consciousness is brain activity
Psychedelics influence brain activity
Thus, psychedelics influence consciousness

>> No.15872941

>>15871830
You seemingly haven't tried yet, give it a shot.

>> No.15872945

This activation of receptors cause neural plasticity, enchances learning and stuff, if you're really interested post link where we can discuss it so psychopaths won't see.

>> No.15872953

I know it's an illusion but mushrooms truly feel like there's some other guy hanging out in your brain for a while, don't get that from acid

>> No.15872990

>>15872941
nta but i have and what he said is still the best ”model” regarding the matter
>inb4 ure just a hylic npc who cant grasp it man

if you really want a ”deep materialist-basedence btfoing” answer, you could argue that it lets you access the unconscious and per Jung, the unconscious has powers not accessable to the conscious mind (i.e. supernatural powers), chiefly the ability to pick up on the presence of recurring archetypes whose eternal story unfolds once more in a specific time and place.

>> No.15872995

>>15872990
I'm more of an neurologist, I don't believe psychology or psychiatry, that they even attempted to describe matter that's there when it comes to how thinking is.

>> No.15873002

>>15872995
t. > psychologic phenomena happens only when you instruct brain to.
t.2> psychiatrist "see" diagnosis, it's more like a fortune teller.

>> No.15873038

>>15871825
Drugs modify levels of certain neurotransmitters, in this case serotonin which is heavily involved in mood and perception
Not that complicated rlly

>> No.15873079

>>15873038
Not complicated, but you need to include details..

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0753332222010010
I recommend reading this, it's pretty straightforward.

I remember that LSD has even adenergic binding. Adenergic binding was recently proven to lower necessary steps to solve an algrotyhm scientifically. It's wroth a try, however manufacturing of it is little harder than growing mushrooms, and the LSA seeds are quite being out of stock last years, atleast for kilogram orders, that would yield like 10grams of LSD per kilogram of seeds.

>> No.15873086

>>15873079
I hate how does this always converge to killing mammals.

>> No.15873115

they just contain a poisonous substance that makes you hallucinate, what more do you need

>> No.15873123

>>15873115
Contrary to popular belief hallucinations are rare.

>> No.15873125

Brain is a gateway for non-physical consciousness. Temporarily alter it and it will malfunction. You can try the same with your radio or your interest router.

>> No.15873198

They just disrupt the neural nets. You temporarily forget things and standard associations are temporarily disrupted. You become more of a blank slate like a child.

>> No.15873329

>>15873198
If you are held in the cage with no stimuli, it's true, otherwise it isn't. Probably your knowledge involved something more inhuman than killing a mice.

>> No.15873348

>>15873329
This makes no sense. Humans have the weirdest front legs.

>> No.15873355

>>15873348
Seems like shrooms got somebody retarded. Maybe it's about setting, I used to go out and talk people with shrooms. It never got me childish or retarded. Even before. I was just enjoying precisely crafted stimuly for the experience since beggining of my psychadelic route.

If you are left alone... There are internal stimuly, you just close your eyes and it's there...

But nothing inherently childish.

>> No.15873419

>>15873355
I didn't suggest it stops the brain or makes you childish.
>internal stimuli
Noise not relevant to what you're normally focused on like navigating the external world is normally filtered out. Normally the established large trunks of associations reinforce themselves which makes the experience boring, ii has nothing novel that triggers new associations.
With shrooms disrupting some of the connections in the established trunks alternative associations come into focus making the experience novel and interesting despite nothing having really changed.
With higher doses or more powerful substances like salvia you may be unable to relate the colours and shapes you're looking at with anything. The sense of self rests on a network of associations that are also disrupted, coming back you remember again that you're a separate entity from the universe with your own properties, like hands.

>> No.15874677

>>15873419
Salvia is acting on totally different kind of receptors and does something totally else than shrooms, but you seem to take some different psilocin than me, because I remember making new associations and a lot of them. And if mushrooms wasn't mentioned, I would assume this state you're talking about is Ketamine.

>> No.15874749

>>15871825
I don't know but they're fuckin cool.

>> No.15874788

>>15874749
yeah, if you're like 15 years old

>> No.15875011
File: 203 KB, 900x900, QRI.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15875011

>>15871825
https://qualiacomputing.com/2016/12/12/the-hyperbolic-geometry-of-dmt-experiences/
https://qualiacomputing.com/2020/07/01/5-meo-dmt-vs-nn-dmt-the-9-lenses/

>> No.15875169

>>15874788
bad meme, kids shouldn't be tripping

>> No.15875184

>>15872995
>hurr durr im a brain
You've never studied anything to a truly academic standard and you don't know shit about fuck, magic believer.

>> No.15875217

>>15874677
Why are you like this? Do you just act like an illiterate idiot to annoy people or are you really this retarded?
Both those and weed are put in the category of psychedelics because they all basically do the same thing, disrupt connections.
>uh ackshually they feel very different
And you're an idiot.

>> No.15875226

>>15875217
They are not the same category.

>>15875184
Truly academic level sometimes fails at category theory.

>> No.15875228

>>15873123
>Contrary to popular belief hallucinations are rare.
This comment filters all ''scientists'' who worship book knowledge. However: based on my own experience truffles are mostly paradigm amplifyers instead of paradigm changers. As an atheist and physicalist I have not experienced any effect that changed my ontological viewpoint.

>> No.15875244

>>15875226
>They are not the same category.
You're an illiterate retard. Not one of your posts has had any point. There's nothing there to think about or explore, just a faggot that doesn't understand anything making pointless noise.

>> No.15875286

>>15875228
That's the point.

>>15875244
Try going to some rave and swap people's psilocin and ketamin if they notice, I bet that they would. Therefore your argument is little bit outsketched.

>> No.15875289

>>15875169
and adults shouldn't want to be tripping

>> No.15875303

>>15872941
I've done more psychedelics than you've seen in your life, it's just chemical reactions, psychs just remove the limiters your brain normally sets so your experience wouldn't be a jumbled mess of unfiltered and unprocesses signals

>> No.15875320

>>15875303
>psychs just remove the limiters your brain normally sets
NTA. They have a wide range of other effects that you should know. There's more to psychedelics than ontology.

>> No.15875324

>>15875303
I've got like 3kilograms of LSA seeds in box for extraction, are you sure you've done so much?

>> No.15875326

>>15875303
Where the fuck is your literate ego-loss then?

>> No.15875331

>>15875320
Yes, of course, but the majority of the effects you experience are caused by your own mind, it's only a testament to what a marvellous piece of engineering your brain is to make such an advanced degree of experience possible

>> No.15875333

>>15875303
You've got neurology totally fliped, and in fact quite a little bit asymetric, but inverse is true.

Also, I've seen whole sheets, got a dude to buy 3tons of wooden chips to grow mush on it.

How the fuck can you confuse category of serotogenic agonist with NMDA antagonist if you've done so much of it so book-worming as you propose?

>> No.15875340

>>15875331
I did strangers drugs only after there was mine. Exegenous neurotransmitters are part of a mind, and if you stole some of them from somebody's elses stach, it may not be all your mind, but my experience was caused purely by mi mind, of course processing external stimuly, but mind was fully my own.

>> No.15875354

>>15875331
Yes and no. As an atheist physicalist myself I do see how problematic correlating brain states and mental states can be. I'm inclined to sympathize with schizos who point out that there's more to life than we can physically observe.

>> No.15876769

Anyone tried payote? What is it like compared to shrooms/lsd?

>> No.15876775

>>15871825
How do non-materialists explain that their own consciousness can be directly affected by material interventions?

>> No.15876782

>>15873125
>You can try the same with your radio or your interest router.
When your radio or internet router malfunctions, you don't get a bunch of usable data that produces novel, repeatable abstract mathematical forms leading to psychedelic patterns of experience, you just get random static and signals that in no way conforms to normal usable signals for the device.

>> No.15876797

>>15871825
What are the dreams you are having every night to you (i.e. a stoner or someone who deems psychedelics "very significant")?
Are they not the precise same thing as psychedelics? Yet why do you people never make statements about the neurological significance of them?

I will explain to you the neurological significance of both now. The mind is inherently chaotic and hallucinating. It inherently tries to wander to absurd places, perceive things that are not there and that make no logical sense (with "tries to" I mean to say such a random noisy mind state is simply what logically follows from the dynamic I describe in the next sentence -- not that the brain has some "desire" to do so).
This is a brain's basic mode. So why does this not apply in every day life? Because that tendency is constantly being overridden by all the accurate sensory input you are getting. You are perceiving photons, etc., and they can correctly be processed. Ergo the brain has no "recourse" to hallucinate. The hallucination is muscled out by the constantly incoming accurate sense data.

When is the coherent processing of this sense-data curtailed? During dreaming, or when taking psychedelics.

tl;dr: Psychedelic trips are very uninteresting. They are the basic state of your mind.

Please respond.

>> No.15876803

>>15876797
Dreams are nothing like psychadelics. Trully, what the fuck are you on guys?

I can tell you one thing, in dreams, music mostly doesn't sounds, but on trips music sounds amazing.

However, there is plant called Dream Herb, and guess why...

>> No.15876804

>>15876797
>Psychedelic trips are very uninteresting. They are the basic state of your mind.
So what you are saying is you have never experienced one?

>> No.15876830
File: 40 KB, 833x460, pearls_swine.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15876830

>>15876804
>>15876803
I knew you would refer to this, but I didn't want to write an entire paper.

I am not interested in the details of the individual drug experiences. A DMT experience is obviously different from a LSD one, is different from Daturah, shrooms, and so on. And these are different from dreams.
I don't care. I am interested in the larger principle. The individual substances modulate the basic dynamic I outlined, but they don't somehow alter it.

To give an example, with LSD you might just perceive certain sensations like colors are more intense; while DMT might warp your very perception of geometry or of time.
None of this makes, prima facie, an interesting difference, though I am all ears why you think these experiences are somehow very different from a dreaming state.

>> No.15876927

>>15876830
Dream happens, when your brain is full of melatonin, on e.g. shrooms, it's that you are full of serotnin.

I must admit, that it shares some properties of dreams, but even dreams are different, I remember seeing caleidoscopic fractals in my mind when I did shrooms.

Also dreams can be lucid, with psychadelics one is still stuck with reality, therefore it differs. In dreams, it's like function on previous and future predicted reality, but with substances, it's still present moment, and it seems the "now" is absent in dreaming, unless you realize that you are dreaming, but when I am dreaming, and I realize that and tries to remember where I'm sleeping I wake up. I've never had "now" of reality in dreams, just future and past experienced being reinforced when I consider connections to reality.

On psychadelics you have "now" of reality.

I hope now you get me why I don't think they are enough similar to be called similar.