/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.15809300]

Is math about practice or simply 'talent'?

[Anonymous No.15809309]

>>15809300
Yes

[Anonymous No.15809386]

Try both and see which works for you

[Anonymous No.15809616]

>>15809300
like most things in life, the following is also true for math:
1 success in math is a matter of practice and talent
2 practice beats lazy talent
3 nothing beats diligent talents except for other diligent talents
>t math degree holder with an IQ of 104 last time i checced

[Anonymous No.15810333]

>>15809300

Practice is absurd. Can a bicycle turn into motorcycle by spinning it wheel long enough? No.

[Anonymous No.15810336]

>>15809300

Practice is absurd. Can a bicycle turn into motorcycle by spinning its wheel long enough? No.

[Anonymous No.15810505]

>>15810336
Kid, you're in for a hell of a surprise sooner or later. Probably when you're out of school.

[Anonymous No.15810671]

>>15809300
It's predominately practice. People who rely on talent would consider lottery tickets to be a sound investment.>>15810336
>>15810336
kek, holy underage.

[Anonymous No.15810677]

>>15810505
>>15810671

Can it?

[Anonymous No.15810694]

>>15810677
Are you a bicycle, anon?

[Anonymous No.15810707]

>>15810694
His mom is, maybe it runs in the family.

[Barkun No.15810709]

>>15810707
It's about talent, practicing math is impossible. You do yourself harm. It is however a non-intellectual talent - thrown into existence. We merely subserve ongoing math, that grows and grows and grows.

[Barkun No.15810712]

>>15810709
off-talent. Or talen.

[Anonymous No.15810714]

>>15810709
You really are a complete idiot.

[Barkun No.15810720]

>>15810714
Herf herf herf herp herp herp herp

[Anonymous No.15810730]

>>15810694

No. But what distinguishes the idea of practice from the idea of a bicycle spinning its wheels? Nothing.

[Anonymous No.15810737]

>>15810730
Your ability to retain the energy dispensed pedaling in memory and your ability to recognize patterns that lead to "Eureka" moments which is understanding that equal to new knowledge.

[Anonymous No.15810739]

>>15810737

This does not mean anything.

[Anonymous No.15810741]

>>15809300
>>15809616
133 iq measured by mensa and I've always been worst in my class, still can't do basic math in my head

[Anonymous No.15810742]

>>15810739
Clearly a skill issue, maybe of you practiced more you'd have a brain capable of comprehending this very simple concept.

[Anonymous No.15810744]

>>15810742

What "concept"?

[Anonymous No.15810746]

>>15809300
talent

[Anonymous No.15810748]

>>15810744
Learning. Bicycles don't learn, you can

[Anonymous No.15810751]

>>15810748

This is not a "concept".

[Anonymous No.15810752]

>>15810741
proof or it didn't happen

[Anonymous No.15810753]

>>15810751
Right, because it wouldn't even dawn on you to learn what the word concept means. That checks out. You'll be the best bicycle on the streets for sure.

[Anonymous No.15810756]

>>15810753

Please stop replying.

[Anonymous No.15810757]

>>15810505
this is me 3 years ago

[Anonymous No.15810759]

>>15810336
This analogy is not only dumb, but it doesn't even depict the situation. It's more like "can a bicycle beat a motorcycle in a race" and then you can start talking about how long the race is and if the motorcycle can win before running out of fuel

[Anonymous No.15810761]

>>15810756
No.

[Anonymous No.15810765]

>>15810759

The "situation" is that one instance cannot become another instance, i.e. one man cannot practice himself into a different man any more than a bicycle can turn itself into a motorcycle by spinning its wheels.

[Barkun No.15810767]

Everyone who posted in this thread is retarded. I'm out.

[Anonymous No.15810773]

>>15810761
Double bait

[Anonymous No.15810783]

The basic stuff like arithmetic is about practice, but talent becomes increasingly important as one moves toward the frontiers.

[Anonimo No.15810808]

Mats

[Barkun No.15810834]

>>15810783
This bait is obvious. You're a disease on all of mankind, some know as cancer. Stay off this board.

8AY2K

[Barkun No.15810853]

Math is about philosophy, otherwise it's about nothing.

/Thread

[Anonymous No.15811015]

it's about LOVE

[Anonymous No.15811064]

>>15809300
Literally practice

[Anonymous No.15811075]

>>15809300
Its about being antiamerican
>be me math whiz
>take algebra twice and get A+ both times because public school is chimpanzee daycare
I was doing sequences and series and memorization of perfect numbers since I could talk as a toddler. My parents cant even do their own taxes or budgets. My practice is high schooler precalc level rusty level sparse as an excel drone zombie.
My talent is Ramanujan brain blast tier. I sit down and the pencil moves itself solving integrals that make mathematicians piss their pants. However I am at a community college getting my balls busted for trig minutia. I am not the only case of Academia dispersing and delaying education to total arrest of development

[Anonymous No.15811102]

>>15809300
read >>15811089
If you are passionate about it and like learning about it, concern yourself with understanding math rather than with your ability to understand math. Grothendieck believed many of his peers were more gifted than he was.

[Anonymous No.15811112]

>>15811102
I believe already having a deep understanding of anything, especially math and the sciences, is often mistaken for having a lot of raw talent. For example, Garry Kasparov was a world class chess player, so people tend to estimate his IQ as high as 180-190 which would be a world class IQ. A German magazine had him IQ tested and he scored 135, high but not world class.

[Anonymous No.15811115]

In general, if you genuinely find yourself drawn to studying math, you are probably smart enough to be a mathematician.

[Anonymous No.15811129]

>>15810834
He's right. If you don't have the talent, practice only provides marginal returns at best and a waste of time at worst.

[Anonymous No.15811137]

>>15811115
Very well put, but its not a concept most young people can understand until they are well into their studies, usually at the graduate level from my experience.

[Anonymous No.15811181]

>>15810741
SOULLESS
I bet you are sentimentally too jacked up to do math

That or youre too spoiled from having good looks and having your incel autism powers sucked out your weiner

I wake up lonely tired bitchless and stinky ready to do math because its my sole source of dopamine in dark souls not on PC not on Xbox hard coded into IRL

[Anonymous No.15811220]

>>15809300
everything is both.

[Anonymous No.15811319]

>>15811181
You gotta live in a stereotypical geek goblin slime dungeon to truly relish in the math

[Anonymous No.15811335]

>>15809300
How is my family have a lot of mathematicians and I'm one of the worse at math in my class? Not fair

[Anonymous No.15811337]

>>15811137
I appreciate that

[Anonymous No.15812731]

>>15810741
>133 iq measured by mensa and I've always been worst in my class, still can't do basic math in my head
that rinky dink IQ test that you can take for free should be taken with a grain of sand, I got a 135 on that thing and got a 104 when professionally tested, its completely possible I was just being lazy that day but I would still not take that test seriously.

[Anonymous No.15812735]

Don't know man i don't consider myself very smart or even genius-tier but i've worked my way through math and practiced hard although i even had to redo some exams and even a fucking entire year but i managed to get through even though it was engineer-tier math. I guess you can train yourself with math even if you are a retard, because lets be real, a fucking Integral can be calculated by a 6 year old child if you teach him the proper elements

[Anonymous No.15812750]

>>15810751
nigger detected

[Anonymous No.15812769]

>>15812731
It only tests pattern recognition, I got 140 on it but on the one I took as a kid, which was much more diversified, I scored around 130. Still I don't think they mean much, unless you're a retard and score 80, and in that case everyone can tell you're a retard, no need to test for it.
Regardless of what you score on a test, online or not, forcing yourself to pursue math when you either have no interested or are lazy is not going to work. The same way it wouldn't work for other things but for math it's much more apparent because you can't fake your way out of it, there are no bullshit genders to invent or ai models to hunt down while everyone is still clueless and blinded by the gold rush.

[Anonymous No.15812787]

>>15809300
both are contributing factors. somebody with an only somewhat above average IQ and little instinct for math can learn what he needs to be an engineer with hard work, whereas someone naturally gifted at math but lazy could get to the same place with less effort.
neither is likely to win a fields medal or reach similar heights, but the second type of person is somewhat more likely to.

[Anonymous No.15812804]

>>15810739
It makes perfect sense to me, but you're clearly retarded so we can't explain it to you. Sorry, but in your case practice probably IS useless.

[Anonymous No.15813700]

the ability to work hard is a talent in and of itself

[Anonymous No.15813883]

>>15809300
>Is math about practice or simply 'talent'?
I find myself super shitty in programming, but through persistent effort I finally was able to get better at it. Talent? Practice? I find persistence more important than the former 2. In a similar way you could exercise your brain to be able to think about things mathematically, through persistent effort.

[Anonymous No.15813888]

>>15810336
Can you ride a bicycle without first practicing? No.

[Anonymous No.15814054]

>>15813888
Can you ride a bicycle without legs? No.

[Anonymous No.15814062]

>>15809300
Math is one of the only things in this world that requires no talent at all

[Anonymous No.15814084]

>>15813700
good point

[Anonymous No.15814101]

>>15814054
A particularly brave cripple could ride a hand-crank bicycle, but only with a lot of practice.

[Anonymous No.15814103]

Having a sharp mind obviously helps to some extent but at the end of the day it's pure practice and don't link iq with maths or anything, your iq is based on logical and analytical thinking.

[Anonymous No.15814128]

So many different opinions but nobody mentioned memory. I can understand moderately complicated concepts but I have very poor long term memory. I forget everything that I've learned a few weeks later and have to refresh my memory every time I switch between different fields of math and physics.

[Anonymous No.15814137]

>>15814128
Short term working memory is essential to intelligence. Things like being able to remember context from a few minutes ago. Without this you won't be able to keep track of your place when having a conversation, solving problems, etc. If you lack sort-term memory then, to be blunt, you probably aren't as smart as you think you are.

Long term memory problems, failure to remember things a week or two later like you're talking about, is perhaps not so much a problem with your intelligence but something else. Maybe you don't remember things because you're unmotivated. Because those things aren't actually important to you, so your brain lets it go. Or maybe there is a problem with the way you go about trying to commit something to memory. Do you expect experiences to just stick with you without any effort or intent to remember? It doesn't work that way for most people most of the time. Are you able to deliberately memorize things using flash cards, or another method, and recall them months or weeks later? If you can't do this no matter how hard you try, maybe you have some neurological issues. But if the problem is that you read a periodic table two weeks ago and can't remember what Pb is now, the problem is you didn't put in the effort to memorize it. Effortlessly committing any random unremarkable to long-term memory without even trying isn't a thing most normal humans (if any) are capable of.

[Anonymous No.15814140]

>>15814128
Also, make sure you aren't doing drugs, booze. Make sure your diet is good and you're getting proper regular sleep. Make sure you don't have any source of major stress in your life. If you mess these up they can negatively impact your ability to form long term memories.

[Anonymous No.15814160]

>>15814140
Short term memory is not a problem for me. But yes, I am always stressed out and don't get enough sleep. And yes you are right, I am not making enough effort. For example, I often skip exercises at the end of the chapter thinking that "I got it".

[Anonymous No.15814163]

>>15814160
Fortunately these are matters that you can address, now that you've identified them.

[Anonymous No.15814804]

>>15813888

Of course. It is demonstrable that some people cannot do something, despite practicing, and that others can do it, despite seldom or never practicing.

[Anonymous No.15814806]

>>15810336
Laudable bait.

[Anonymous No.15814838]

>>15809300
patern recognition partnered with language acquisition.

[Anonymous No.15815206]

x

[Anonymous No.15815211]

>>15809309
I'm sorry sir, but I'm going to have to disagree with your reasoned argument. You see, if math were about anything, then that specific thing would be the object of math, but anything can be the object of math at any particular time just as any gear can be the gear a car is in at any particular time or any gear can be a gear the bike is in at any particular time, but a specific anything is only related to math at a particular time for a particular person, so you see, you can do your math homework while I do my English homework, and then I can do my math homework while you do your Spanish homework and paint a fresco for art class. And then I can compose a waltz for music class. I'm sorry, do you want to know what math is about? It's about any specific thing, at any particular time, but not any one specific thing all of the time, because the object of math might be your math homework, or it might be some open problem. Another word for an open problem is an unsolved problem. Do unsolved problems make you uneasy? If so, you might try listening to this wonderful rendition of Conrad's Heart of Darkness: https://ia803401.us.archive.org/8/items/heart_of_darkness/heart_of_darkness_3a_conrad.mp3

[Anonymous No.15815372]

>>15809300
Every skill is 99% persistence and 1% talent. That means someone without talent can easily master any skill in the world.

[Anonymous No.15815375]

>>15810741
If you dont have 10 pages of math exercises daily, then you're doing it wrong.

Talent is useless on its own.

[Anonymous No.15815412]

>>15810741
IQ is a meme anyway. It correlates well with "intelligence" in the abstract sense for which people like to use it as a 1:1 substitute, but on a case by case basis (especially when limited to a particular subject) it doesn't mean very much.

[Anonymous No.15815422]

>>15810741
IQ doesn't mean anything

[Anonymous No.15815433]

>>15815372

This is absurd. For every instance of someone doing something there would have to be multiple, God only knows how many, instances of said thing being practiced by said man. So much so that the total amount of time the average man spends doing would require a total practice time that would exceed his total lifetime.

[Anonymous No.15815577]

https://imgur.com/a/Gzp2Ile

[Anonymous No.15815664]

>>15809300
Its about getting your cock hard at the sight of the quadratic formula

[Anonymous No.15815731]

How can you develop talent without practice? I've never heard of it. If practice is difficult, you won't do it. If it is rewarding, then you will. We are trying to decide between verbs and nouns, people! Those "innate" abilities that aren't pure survival related got in there somehow, and you weren't born with 'em!

[Anonymous No.15816410]

>>15809300
'Talent' is what makes you understand a new math topic quicker, but that gets complicated the more this new topic relies on actual knowledge from other domains of math.
Actual math skill is then mostly practice.
Talent comes into play again when you work outside of the boundaries of what is already known.

People who believe themselves to be particularly gifted or talented because they are a little faster at understanding math others have prepared and worked out for them over the past centuries are completely delusional.

[Anonymous No.15816434]

>>15815664
>it's about getting aroused by a common whore formula that every single Tom Dick and Harry has thoroughly gangbanged and repeatedly bukkake'd by the time they graduate high school.
um, no

[Anonymous No.15816451]

>>15816434
If you can't even get hard anymore for the classics, it's over.

[Anonymous No.15816626]

>>15809300
Just like everything else of importance, it is about time investment and reps in the gym.

The most terrifyingly smart professors I have ever worked with in a research capacity didn't just wake up that way. It took them years of grinding away at their craft and trying to grapple with the elements of their field they don't understand.

[Anonymous No.15816647]

>>15813700
Discipline is determined by environment more than genetics.

[Anonymous No.15816759]

>>15809300
All math until certain (college grad not math degree) point is just practice. The problems have already been solved. You just need to memorize the steps to solve them which is practice. Civil engineer? yeah some talent is requiered but again the fucking problems have already been solved just memorize the steps and apply the little talent you have. All breakthroughs in science are pure talent.

[Anonymous No.15816807]

>>15809300
Well all the people who tried to fake it with reps have been midwits so this is a false dichotomy

[Anonymous No.15817586]

>>15809300
Is about understanding logics, so it's talent. You need minimum I.Q. to undertand logics.

[Anonymous No.15817740]

>>15809616
You don't have an IQ of 104 if you managed to got a math degree.
Mine is 105 and I dropped out of uni twice and barely manage to pass anything in EEng now at age 30, my life is over due to my extemely low IQ not suited for academic success (aka the only way to get a job that pays above minimum wage)

[Anonymous No.15817758]

>>15815422
IQ is the single biggest and best predictor of life outcome. If your IQ is between 115 to 130 you have to actively make bad decisions to not accidentally end up being rich and successful in life, above and below it's either being a Neet or working a dead end job.
The data is very clear on that one.

[Anonymous No.15817796]

>>15809300
Adoration.
https://youtu.be/Bj3mg5BLaBU

[Anonymous No.15817810]

>>15817740
I did 2 iq tests and the results were very similar, slightly above 100.
Maybe your university had harder homework and exams and I would've dropped out too if I attended your university, who knows. don't care, got a degree kek

[Anonymous No.15817811]

>>15815422
IQ has extremely strong correlations for things like salary...drug addiction...prison time...etc. It clearly is meaningful or it wouldn't be used. The US military uses IQ tests to organize applications by vocation aptitude.

[Anonymous No.15817813]

>>15817758
>. If your IQ is between 115 to 130 you have to actively make bad decisions to not accidentally end up being rich and successful in life,
I feel personally attacked.

t. have been pursuing a bachelor's on and off for almost a decade, all of my grades are either A or F where I either breeze through the course or just nope out and never go back

I started writing a loosely autobiographical book to detail how much my parents hate me but I dropped it halfway through.

[Anonymous No.15817814]

>>15817740
It's me again >>15817810
your life is far from over. learn a trade, work it and after some time open up your own business in that trade. you will be more useful to society than a degree holder clacking away on a keyboard in some office all day, your employees will be constantly booked and you will make decent money. don't be a defeatist.

[Anonymous No.15817834]

>>15817814
If you aren't a college graduate making 6 figures and having slept with over 50+ women by the age of 25, you failed at life and it's over for you.

[Anonymous No.15817861]

>>15817758
115 is barely above average and 130 is only top 2%. If you were right, every 8-10th person would be rich and successful, which is clearly not true.
Surprising to me that even people on /sci/ think 130IQ is high. 130IQ means you're peak midwit but way below genius level. You aren't hopelessly retarded, but that's it. Many smarter people will pass by you if you just walk through a crowded street.

[Anonymous No.15818100]

>>15817834
I am a Ph D making 7 figures and I've slept with over 500 women, and I'm 24 years old.
I'm also a felon, and the SWAT team at the door is saying it's all over for me.
I'm trying to tell them that they should heed the death threats I'm issuing against the family of Chinese immigrants I'm holding hostage in my basement.
Even if I had failed at life, why would that be relevant right now?
::a blast is heard in the distance::
Ah shit. It looks like they've breached the outer perimeter defenses already. I'm going to have to send in the laser canon wielding cyborg dinosaurs.

[Anonymous No.15818831]

>>15810741
>139 IQ
dumbest motherfucker in my department. I can relate.

[Anonymous No.15818838]

>>15813700
Based and Might Guy-pilled. His philosophy has been carrying me for a long time.

[Anonymous No.15818844]

>>15814140
>make sure you aren't doing drugs, booze
no probblems there
>Make sure your diet is good and you're getting proper regular sleep
well shit, there goes my hopes
>Make sure you don't have any source of major stress in your life
I'm barely avoiding killing myself theese days because of stress.
College is a bitch.

[Anonymous No.15819007]

Most likely passion and work, if you’re interested in math you’re gonna become good at it. Retarded hyperfocus beats a gifted kid doing it while bored a thousand times over.

[Anonymous No.15820962]

>>15817861
>Many smarter people will pass by you if you just walk through a crowded street
is that so?

[Barkun No.15820964]

ITT: Derping derpas

Math is an off talent that's trained through focus.