How the fuck is it Schizophrenia and intelligence are negatively correlated? I would think it would be just the opposite (schizos are usually into all kinds of crazy and convoluted esoteric theories)

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Anonymous Mon Oct 16 06:28:01 2023 No.15806614 [Reply] [Original]

How the fuck is it Schizophrenia and intelligence are negatively correlated? I would think it would be just the opposite (schizos are usually into all kinds of crazy and convoluted esoteric theories)

Anonymous Mon Oct 16 06:34:06 2023 No.15806618

>>15806614
>(schizos are usually into all kinds of crazy and convoluted esoteric theories)
Yeah but I don't know why would you think having a fervent belief in a bunch of retarded gibberish would correlate with being smart. Have you seen the kinds of "esoteric theories" schizophrenics work up in their heads?

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 16 06:35:49 2023 No.15806620 >>15806618 Yes and they can involve things like Hegel, the hard problem of solipsism, gnosticism and various other dense bullshit.

Anonymous Mon Oct 16 06:40:38 2023 No.15806624

>>15806614
They score bad On IQ test for 2 reasons, I will give them you.

first testing IQ when they are psychotic, and seeing and hearing or being caught up in delusion. will make you subpar at scoring well on such a test.

second after getting tortured for 1-2months
alongside the usage of major tranquillizers"antipsycotic"your unable to perform on such a test. Every single higher brain function have been turned off.

if you can test a schizo that have not been tortured is not psycotic, and have not suffered brain-damaged from the usage from Tranquilizers

there IQ would most likely be the same as the
rest of the population.

As of today I have seen not a single study on this. because researchers
are fucking idiots

Anonymous Mon Oct 16 06:42:27 2023 No.15806626

The sane schizos are schizoids and schizotypals and bipolars. They usually have the genius creativity that comes with schizophrenia and are also sane enough to function normally in society. Someone like perelman might actually have schizoid pd because of how averse he is to social interaction. Newton might also have had it. Its a midpoint in the schizophrenic spectrum.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 16 06:45:35 2023 No.15806628 >>15806626 Probably what I have desu. Never have hallucinated anything except for perhaps extreme moods (like the world being literal hell)

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 16 06:48:58 2023 No.15806630 >>15806620 >They include big words therefore they are intelligent lol, is this the philosophyfags' standard?

bodhi Mon Oct 16 06:53:07 2023 No.15806632

>>15806620
those people aren't schizophrenic you fucking idiot. They are just so much smarter than the morons here that the idiots here call them schizos, which in reality means "you are too much more intelligent than me that I can't understand what you are saying" jfc do you 'ot understand the difference between a stale même idiots use on an anime forum and real life? touch grass you little faggot

Anonymous Mon Oct 16 06:54:00 2023 No.15806633

>>15806624
Caught a live schizophrenic here, continue taking your meds and listen to the doctors. The cause for your reduced IQ(as evident with your idiosyncratic language use of incoherent capitalization and random line breaks) is psychosis, not antipsychotics. Your brain gets fried from being overloaded with stimuli in the same way a chemically induced psychosis would from meth or cocaine, keep taking your meds.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 16 06:55:08 2023 No.15806634 >>15806632 No, I'm speaking firsthand here

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 16 06:56:09 2023 No.15806635 >>15806633 Hylic detected

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 16 07:03:18 2023 No.15806638 >>15806620 Why do you think the topic makes any difference? Retarded gibberish is still retarded gibberish no matter what content it's babbling about

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 16 07:25:29 2023 No.15806654 >>15806638 It implies a level of sophistication, my dumb friend.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 16 08:46:45 2023 No.15806732 >>15806614 A schizo that can have a conversation is a very rare one Schizos score low on IQ tests because very often these people cannot even tie their own shoes

Anonymous Mon Oct 16 10:21:42 2023 No.15806813

>>15806732
That's seems a bit odd now doesn't it?

It would take less than 5 days to induce schizophrenia in you, yet you would still be able to tie your shoe laces.However if exposed to moderate to high dosages of 2nd gen tranquilizers, you would end up severely impaired.

makes one wonder.

Anonymous Mon Oct 16 10:30:45 2023 No.15806829
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>>15806633

Ahh the infamous chemical imbalance theory now is it? Its not really a theory you see, it have never actually been proven believe it or not. I have might have a low IQ, but not lower than you.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 16 11:33:38 2023 No.15806879 >>15806654 lmao namedropping some deep sounding words does not imply you're "sophisticated" man

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 16 11:59:22 2023 No.15806909 >>15806614 Stress caused by schizophrenia causes bad overall health and low test results.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 16 20:09:19 2023 No.15807478 >>15806829 Based

Anonymous Mon Oct 16 20:50:48 2023 No.15807561

I have experienced numerous episodes of psychosis. It's more than just convoluted theories. Psychological torture is a better description. It breaks you down mentally. The experience is a failure of homeostasis that leaves you with the cognitive ability of a stressed out paranoid child. Cognitive deficits are part of how schizophrenia is diagnosed, so if someone were intelligent, they would be more likely diagnosed bipolar type one.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 16 20:59:07 2023 No.15807575 Schizophrenia will literally destroy your brain. Most of them experience white matter loss and mental declines.

Barkun Mon Oct 16 21:06:06 2023 No.15807588
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>>15807561

Fuck off, Grimshaw.

And by intelligent this poster means a slave. If we're talking about thinking, someone with schizophrenia probably does it better.

/Thread

Never reply to this. You ought not midwit brain capable of midwit thoughts.

Barkun Mon Oct 16 21:08:55 2023 No.15807592

>>15807588
1. How is a cognitive deficit diagnosed

2. It's never really diagnosed

3. What is intelligence? IQ? You must be joking.

4. So what this poster means is a person with schizophrenia doesn't work or learn like a slave minded goy like said poster would hope it would

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 16 21:11:21 2023 No.15807600 File: 70 KB, 620x675, turbogenius.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15807588 >>15807592 Define intelligence. How do grade thinking? What do you mean 'schizophrenia'? Nice job using slaveminded words buddo.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 16 21:13:18 2023 No.15807606 >>15807588 >>15807592 True gellekshon cognitiors no the rat minders are behind everything.

>>	Barkun Mon Oct 16 21:13:34 2023 No.15807607 File: 42 KB, 600x540, 126115477157.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15807600 Define you

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 16 21:14:34 2023 No.15807611 >>15807607 Y - yellow o - owners u - undermine designation of the chink dystopia ruler fantasy in which we undermined by hatred

Barkun Mon Oct 16 21:18:34 2023 No.15807620

>>15807606
What exact cognitive deficit does a person with schizophrenia have?

Inability to learn? If so, inability to learn via which method? Because I'm pretty sure we learn things every day just through experience. If he doesn't accept goyducation from academia for example, that's fine. It's full of crap anyway.

So if we separate all academic influence from society with a eusocial human nature and civilization, what cognitive deficit is that person left with - you make it out to seem like this person does things like rejects trees exist.

In my opinion, you're more retarded and need currently unknown help.

Anonymous Mon Oct 16 21:22:07 2023 No.15807625
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>>15807575
That is straight up wrong, in large parts at least.
You see most if not almost all of the damages comes from "Tranquilizers"

Here is an actual list of what these drugs do

- Atrophy of grey matter and white matter
- Atrophy of the brain as a whole
- Heavy atrophy towards the frontal lobe
- Lose of speech
- Lose of cognitive function almost all of them get affected
- Disorganized speech (paradoxical no?)
- Morphing of brain structure, neuro-transmitters and receivers

However psychosis that does not go away on its own, will at some point become neurotoxic. But will never have anything close to the damaging effect
tranquilizers do

Barkun Mon Oct 16 21:23:42 2023 No.15807629

>>15807620
Schizophrenia is bad bonding with maleficent (opposite to beneficent) life. It's not a genetic disorder directly, but indirectly some genetic builds react unkindly to evil. People do not just submit and be evil, even physically. If the intelligence you promote isn't good or is totally evil, some will naturally repent.

Barkun Mon Oct 16 21:29:45 2023 No.15807640
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>>15807629
Proof. When something makes no sense, you automatically can't give it a true response. If, per chance, society was not ordered intellectually or maturely, some may think 'fuck it, I'm not taking part or I'm going to be against it'.

So with all that taken in, your insult of the credibility of schizophrenic people is meaningless and evil, and won't be taken serious.

Barkun Mon Oct 16 21:33:01 2023 No.15807647
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>>15807640
He is a good thinker. He is stuck in a poor quality society. Yes he needs support. He is not capable of working well with society, that's in the hands of the societ-ors and those under them faithfully. There is no middle ground. You either help him or you don't. Insulting him on the side of helping him is further agony for him so I wouldn't bother.

Anonymous Mon Oct 16 21:35:24 2023 No.15807648

>>15807640
I am telling you from experience psychosis is stupid as fuck compared to my normal state. Obviously it's value based so there's a strong subjective component to it. A simple question to understand your values might be, do you think the homeless guy who hasn't bathed in months screaming at nothing at 2am outside mcdonalds is living a better life than the average citizen?

>>	Barkun Mon Oct 16 21:37:36 2023 No.15807652 >>15807648 No. I don't think he is. But it's not his fault or a fault of his system directly, it's more the way society has negatively impacted him either from birth or somewhere down the line.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 16 21:38:40 2023 No.15807654 What do you guys think of schizoaffective-bipolar type?

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 16 21:43:23 2023 No.15807664 >>15807652 It's not a matter of blame. It's just reality. It is his system now, regardless of how it got there. There's nothing special or inherently positive about life. Some people are born for suffering.

>>	Barkun Mon Oct 16 21:46:18 2023 No.15807670 File: 23 KB, 480x480, 1691062203766532.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15807664 This was retarded. Consider this my last response to you.

>>	Barkun Mon Oct 16 21:53:22 2023 No.15807687 File: 55 KB, 500x147, 1685452179482627.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15807664 Kys faggot. Stop making stupid posts.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 16 21:58:17 2023 No.15807697 >>15807664 >Some people are born for suffering. What is wrong with you?

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 16 22:05:20 2023 No.15807709 >>15807697 I don't know.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 17 05:45:46 2023 No.15808226 File: 217 KB, 494x450, 1696517422530757.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15807625 >Lose of speech >Lose of cognitive function almost all of them get affected Do not redeem

Anonymous Tue Oct 17 06:37:22 2023 No.15808268
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>>15808226
You don't think there is a reason I emphasizes
lose of speech? pe pi po lo

https://www.nrk.no/trondelag/26-aring-mener-han-har-fatt-livet-odelagt-av-antipsykotiske-legemidler-_-prover-na-a-bli-medisinfri-1.16295643

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 17 07:36:37 2023 No.15808310 >>15806614 schizos are shit at abstract thinking among other things, and in turn problem solving. it's baked in with the disease. the supposed genius schizos are schizo-lites. this talk is pretty good https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nEnklxGAmak

>>	Barkun Tue Oct 17 07:39:37 2023 No.15808312 >>15808310 Translation: derp, I'm retarded

Anonymous Tue Oct 17 07:40:46 2023 No.15808313

>>15806614
>schizos are usually into all kinds of crazy and convoluted esoteric theories
So why would you expect a positive correlation with intelligence? Just because it's convoluted doesn't mean you need to be intelligent. Schizo conspiracy theories are often self-contradicting. If the people were intelligent, they would notice and ditch the theory.

>>	Barkun Tue Oct 17 07:42:47 2023 No.15808314 >>15808313 t. governmental slave with crackademic dumbification, unnoticed

>>	Barkun Tue Oct 17 07:46:31 2023 No.15808317 File: 9 KB, 240x240, 1685968178877836.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15808313

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 17 07:52:21 2023 No.15808320 >>15808314 >>15808317 t. triggered, low-IQ schizos If I was part of an evil, all-mighty government, why wouldn't I just kill you and make it look like an accident, heart attack or Covid?

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 17 07:55:26 2023 No.15808322 >>15808320 more useful to experiment on schizos, and use them as research cattle.

Anonymous Tue Oct 17 08:11:12 2023 No.15808328

Probably because IQ tests determine how capable you are at finding logically correct patterns while schizophrenics tends to develop elaborate and bizarre correlations that dissolve under proper scrutiny.
I say this as a schizophrenic, like that matters at all.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 17 08:42:11 2023 No.15808360 >>15806632 Solipsism and gnosticism is for low IQ retards.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 17 08:51:03 2023 No.15808376 >>15807654 Pure schizophrenics are low IQ but the schizoaffective types specifically bipolar seem to be higher intelligence than normal. Because the smartest person I know is schizoaffective bipolar. (I know alot of fucking people)

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 17 09:27:36 2023 No.15808418 >>15808322 How come no one has abducted you to do research on you then?

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 17 09:45:58 2023 No.15808438 >>15808360 What do you believe, some fedora shit?

Anonymous Tue Oct 17 09:49:49 2023 No.15808442

>>15808438
I am just an agnostic that heavily leans atheist. From all the scientific evidence I have seen, it seems no one is actually control of the universe and it will eventually die of heat death where nothing will exist again.
Thats contrary to gnosticism, and solipsism is so stupid its not even worth debating.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 17 09:53:54 2023 No.15808449 >>15808442 Why is solipsism stupid? Impractical sure, but you experience a solipsistic reality every time you go to sleep (probably)

Anonymous Tue Oct 17 09:59:42 2023 No.15808460

>>15808449
Because solipsism heavily implies mind before matter and there is no coherent theory how that even works. There is no explanation for why other beings exist that arent real. I could bring up so many unexplained things in solipsism, where it logically just fails occam's razor and other theories should take its place.

It also doesnt help that from observation, people going through solipsism phases seem to be narcistic personality disorders or experiencing psychosis.

Anonymous Tue Oct 17 10:12:30 2023 No.15808476
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>>15808418
>>15808418

Ahh the short reply, going directly for the throat. Not even engaging in the conversation, instead resorting
to personal attacks. Cute and childish.I was weighting if I should give a proper reply, but I think I will
refrain. Your are in possession of a childlike mentality.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 17 10:30:11 2023 No.15808492 >>15808460 Why should matter necessarily precede mind? If anything that is MORE steps.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 17 10:57:15 2023 No.15808533 >>15808492 ??? It doesnt at all what, There is some flaw in your logic if you think it does. Mind or matter first is 50/50 before logical extrapolation eliminates mind first.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 17 11:04:20 2023 No.15808535 >>15806624 this I'm basically schizo get voices whenever I use drugs I score 120 on IQ tests not to say being schizo makes you smart, while psychotic I believed the dumbest fucking shit

Anonymous Tue Oct 17 11:08:52 2023 No.15808541

>>15806614
>Why does [poorly understood feature of human psychology] negatively correlate with [poorly understood feature of human psychology]?
Beats me.
Intelligence is one thing, but to say anything with authority about psychotic illness reveals your total ignorance of the subject. I imagine you're either overinterpreting a study, or you've read something written for the sole purpose of being sensationalist.
Someone currently experiencing psychosis is not going to do well on any test, obviously. Their answers are going to be based on dopaminergic pathways hijacking/working around the prefrontal cortex. A person with schizophrenia isn't always psychotic, but the nature of abberant salience means they might see a question where one of the answers is "3" and they'll see the number "3", and they'll get some burst of dopamine, and they'll interpret the associated feeling as being divine, and then they'll start thinking about the holy trinity or some such garbage.
But here's the thing: psychosis is more often transient than it is permanent, and it's cause can be due to a whole bunch of different things, lack of sleep, drugs, withdrawing from drugs. Just think about the fact that most GPs will readily prescribe antipsychotics whether people actually need them or not. The prevalence of such a practice alone massively skews research, especially when you consider half of all questionnaires will only ask "are you CURRENTLY taking medication" and the other half will provide some incentive to lie about drug use.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 17 11:52:07 2023 No.15808573 >>15808476 >argumentum ad comment length That's a new one.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 17 12:16:07 2023 No.15808592 >>15806614 Schizopills harm short - term memory. Some even harm brain long time after they are not used.

>>	Barkun Tue Oct 17 12:34:47 2023 No.15808615 File: 28 KB, 480x349, be7.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15808541 Biggest derp ever recorded. You are a retard my friend. It's so stupid what you just posted my eye broke. I can't even see anymore. I went blind because of you

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 17 13:05:02 2023 No.15808637 >>15808541 And so, anti-psychotics lower intellect by blocking dopamine pathways?

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 17 13:26:49 2023 No.15808650 I think the best way to deal with all of the schizos on this board is to convince them that they're all being gangstalked and get them to kill themselves to escape it.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 17 13:40:36 2023 No.15808669 >>15808615 He's right though so you're just a midwit

Anonymous Tue Oct 17 13:51:03 2023 No.15808682
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>>15808637
Yes , they are tranquilizers. not a little bit.
like legit some of the strongest shit there is.
every single brain function gets turn off.

They block the receptors, the block the
transmitters, and cause atrophy in the brain.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 17 13:52:43 2023 No.15808685 >>15808650 Delete this. You aren't supposed to post our plans publicly. Pray that our boss didn't see this or they are going to electrocute you with silver wires between your teeth.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 17 13:53:30 2023 No.15808686 File: 26 KB, 1274x632, olanzapine, all known blockade.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15808682 here is one for Olanzapine they use this shit in old folks home. there spines and neck starts to contour into all fucked up position

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 17 13:56:05 2023 No.15808690 >>15808650 doesn't matter if you want schizo's dead. Psychiatry will not be stopped you will feel the full force of the tranquilizers yourself, in due time.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 17 15:10:00 2023 No.15808803 >>15808690 Hope you have eyes on the back of your head. >>15808685 No, I'm pretty sure they're gangstalking me too. Everywhere I don't look, I know someone is looking at me. Must be why I keep waking up at night.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 17 15:33:40 2023 No.15808833 >>15806614 The smart schizos avoid getting diagnosed.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 17 15:43:47 2023 No.15808847 >>15806614 They can retain a lot of information, but they are unable to systematize it in a coherent and logical way.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 17 15:43:56 2023 No.15808848 >>15808682 What can I do to fight with it? Like I'm forced to take this pills, but I want to live.

Barkun Tue Oct 17 16:14:36 2023 No.15808904

>>15808847
>coherent
>logical

Wrong. It's more they can systematize it in a reasonable way given the circumstances. Otherwise your diagnosis falls apart and just is a plain old insult.

You are more retarded than a schizo. There is no help for you and others like you. Kys.

Barkun Tue Oct 17 16:16:54 2023 No.15808910

>>15808848
You join in with everybody else and derp silly.

Watch

Derp derp derp derp I'm stupid. Hey. Let's insult schizos even though we're worse. Let's say they can't be logical and coherent which makes no true sense and is just an insult. Lol. Derp derp derp derp I'm a full on spastic.

Anonymous Tue Oct 17 16:17:35 2023 No.15808911
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>>15808848
well
1. Are you in an institution? If you are, just stop doing whatever, sit or lay in your bed, speak less and less, say you feel bad from the medication, make them lower it to the utmost lowest that is possible. Only when the dosage is like 100-200mg Quitapine(seruqel) or 5mg Olanzapine(Zyprexia), can you start pretending you feel better. This people think your insane anyway, they cant tell your lying to save there life.
you can say and lie about anything. They wont know, they just want you sedated.
As long as them themself feels safe and no longer perceive you as a threat,
are they finaly content with letting you go.

2. if your forced to take the medication by law, but not in an institution then start tapering the fuck off them now. If your on multiple of them. I would need further info. as some of them are really fucking henius. You might need to restart treatment, sometimes during
tapering of when your gotten of them. This is caused by a mechanism called "dopamine induced super-sensitivity, but fear not you will get off them. Now comes the hard part.

3. Withdrawal. you seen those scary news about mass-murdering schizos, well that's largely caused by withdrawal. you will feel Suicidal ideation you have
never felt before, you will feel homicidal ideation you have never felt before.
4. NO DRUGS, NO ALCOHOL, no nothing never ever. during tapering, or when getting of them, you will risk running into a even worse psychosis that will and might leave you
permanent schizo for the rest of your life. it can take anywhere from 3-30 months,
sometimes even longer before you feel normal, again.

.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 17 16:17:46 2023 No.15808912 >>15808904 >butthurt low IQ spamming schizo Didn't even read your post lol

>>	Barkun Tue Oct 17 16:19:08 2023 No.15808914 >>15808911 Okay.jpg FartInMyMouf.mp3

>>	Barkun Tue Oct 17 16:20:20 2023 No.15808916 >>15808912 Awhhh. Perhaps you right. Schizos retarded.

Anonymous Tue Oct 17 16:39:54 2023 No.15808944

>>15808911
I can't refuse pills, I'm given two injections monthly, 800 solian daily, two zyprexas and citalex.

They gave me medicine with food.

Thank you for advice, but I already sleep until the launch and best I can do is sleep again at 9pm... I literally sometimes sleep even more, nobody gives a shit.

When I talked to doctor, they said I'm not sedated and my psychomotorics are normal, but I cannot draw like I used to before, now I can't move pen fast and coordinated.

Anonymous Tue Oct 17 18:13:36 2023 No.15809082

>>15808682
That's why the lowest dose possible should be administered. If the brain is overactive, antagonistic effects are appropriate. But it shouldn't automatically be done at a standardized dose. They should gradually increase and stop when symptoms have been resolved. For some people, this is much lower than standard dosages. Also, there is variation among antipsychotics and individual tolerance. Milder antipsychotics like Aripiprazole and Quetiapine should be tried before ones like Risperidone and Olanzapine.

Anonymous Tue Oct 17 18:31:16 2023 No.15809110

>>15808911
>ChatGPT, write the worst advice imaginable

Seriously, "take your meds" is a meme, but you should consider if you shouldn't be taking yours.

Yes, in the US, there are some dodgy long-term medications which aren't done in Europe because they don't have a better outcome than no medication at all, but you sound like a genuine psychopath. Your advice could literally kill people. What the fuck is wrong with you?

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 17 18:38:55 2023 No.15809123 >>15809110 go and read, then come back. No medication better long term outcome read Chicago, study, India study Asia studies actually 20 year long studies, now go fuck of and go back to snipping glue you dipshit nigger Jew

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 17 18:39:25 2023 No.15809124 >>15808944 >solian daily, two zyprexas and citalex. Inb4 someone digs through a database of brand names and finds out that there's only a single country where this specific set of names is available.

Anonymous Tue Oct 17 18:43:13 2023 No.15809128

>>15809123
I already said that the US have some crappy standards of care. I don't care about Pajeets.
Do you know what is probably the only worse treatment than the American one? Listening to literal schizophrenics on 4chan. You don't know anything about that guy. You have no medical training w whatsoever. If he is on two antipsychotics, he might be in an acute psychotic episode and then your studies (if they are the ones I saw) don't even apply. You didn't ask first, you directly gave advice which makes it shitty advice by default.

Anonymous Tue Oct 17 18:44:10 2023 No.15809130

>>15809082
There is no correlation with dopamine,serotonin
histamine,alpha etc receptors.

Do you understand why the psychosis goes away?

they go away because they are no longer interesting in there delusions, the patient feel such apathy that nothing is interesting,ergo 50% of the time the psychosis goes away. 25% is mixed, and the remaining 25% not responding

So here is the kicker, if patient loses interest
in there delusions and hallucination the problem
seems to go away, do you think such an
experiment have ever been conducted?

DING DING DING it has, and it fucking worked.

Anonymous Tue Oct 17 18:49:06 2023 No.15809142

>>15809128
Every developed nation has the absolute worst
even fucking treatment.
Africa have superior outcome compared to developed nations.

Ohh and your right, I was sure I wrote about
taking multiple types of this drug. guess it
didn't make the final cut, my bad. Your absolutely right about that part. My bad mate.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 17 18:49:36 2023 No.15809144 How the FUCK are there this many schizos on /sci/? I count at least 4 in this thread alone.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 17 18:51:21 2023 No.15809150 File: 43 KB, 822x960, 1697354960535498.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15809144 Yourself included?

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 17 18:52:50 2023 No.15809154 >>15809144 Combination of 2016 and the containment board no longer containing them.

Anonymous Tue Oct 17 18:56:52 2023 No.15809163

>>15808944
The doctors said you where not sedated. LOL,
The drug is literally a sedative.
So your taking two different types of anti-psychotic, and one anti depressant.

Jesus, I am sorry to hear fren. Just wait it out and sleep, nothing you can do in your current situation =/.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 17 18:59:24 2023 No.15809167 >>15809130 This is just straight up wrong. People taking antipsychotics don't just lose interest in their delusions. They reject them as an incorrect interpretation of reality.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 17 19:01:35 2023 No.15809171 >>15809163 >The drug is literally a sedative. Which drug of the three?

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 17 19:04:45 2023 No.15809179 >>15809171 Solian and zyprexia are both sedatives/tranquilizers citalex anti depressant SSRI => emotional blunting, but anti psychotic have that effect as well.

Anonymous Tue Oct 17 19:09:17 2023 No.15809193

>>15809179
>Solian
>Amisulpride is an antiemetic and antipsychotic medication used at lower doses intravenously to prevent and treat postoperative nausea and vomiting; and at higher doses by mouth to treat schizophrenia and acute psychotic episodes.
Not a sedative.
>zyprexia
>Olanzapine (sold under the trade name Zyprexa among others) is an atypical antipsychotic primarily used to treat schizophrenia and bipolar disorder.
Not a sedative.
>citalex anti depressant SSRI
Correct.
> => emotional blunting
Moving goalposts, so I'm not even going to dignify this with a further response.

Anonymous Tue Oct 17 19:11:22 2023 No.15809199

>>15809167
I understand, funny how it have never been proven to have a clinical proven therapeutic effect then. You know very little about these drug,
its clearly coming to light when you speak about them in the way you
do. But hey the majority is always right. FYI this isn't my opinion I have read 1000+ of studies on this shit, read through countless
experiments. The probability of you knowing more about these drugs
than me is highly unlikely

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 17 19:13:23 2023 No.15809205 File: 7 KB, 417x201, derp.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15809193 your a fucking idiot mate,

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 17 19:16:10 2023 No.15809210 >>15809205 >>15809193 They rebranded them back in the 1970s, you can go figure out the rest yourself, right?

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 17 19:20:17 2023 No.15809215 File: 21 KB, 1406x356, leldog.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15809193

Anonymous Tue Oct 17 19:21:44 2023 No.15809218

>>15809199
>read 1000+ of studies
>read through countless experiments
but have you ever interacted with a human being outside 4chan, or do you just cherry-pick data to support your obsession? These drugs have an extremely obvious beneficial effect. The vast majority of people take them voluntarily.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 17 19:24:15 2023 No.15809221 File: 179 KB, 311x308, lol.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15809218

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 17 19:46:04 2023 No.15809248 >>15809218 let me start with linking you this video first I guess. Since reading studies, might be a bit to hard for you, now you can lean back and watch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfThKVNl0Oc

Anonymous Tue Oct 17 20:08:10 2023 No.15809272

>>15809215
What retarded lingo is that?
>Sedative can mean sedative, but it can als mean tranquilizer which can also mean antipsychotic
Do you realise how retarded you sound right now? Without your meds probably not.
>>15809248
>Let me start with...
*opens video*
>Psychiatric drugs are incredibly destructive and neurotoxic
Literal schizobabble

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 17 20:13:17 2023 No.15809282 >>15809272 AHAHAHA are you psycotic perhaps? or just low IQ?

Anonymous Tue Oct 17 20:20:01 2023 No.15809288
File: 114 KB, 1600x900, 1697319767139097.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>15809272
all major sedative/tranquilizers agents have some minor hypnotic effect.

all major hypnotics agent have some minor sedative/tranquilizing effect.

does that clear up the problem, or are you
still a monkey?

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 17 20:51:17 2023 No.15809350 >>15809288 >all major hypnotics Those goalposts really keep moving.

Anonymous Tue Oct 17 22:43:59 2023 No.15809536
File: 83 KB, 850x400, super villian.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>15806614
1. there's a pic-related madness mirrors genius.. or touch of madness is a thing..., or only difference between genius and madness is the result/success of said gentleman just believe me bro memes (see oscar pistolious or pic related quote)
idiots who get frustrated and are on tons of psych meds from some combination of general-idiocy/frustrations they expressed to their doctor/ mental-health 'episodes' especially those that incur law enforcement action or jailing/ etc.. etc...
ALL get thrown into the bucket of 'schizophrenia'
Genuis fucks who have 3 coffees (or name several stimulants or any popular psychoactive including MJ, etc... etc...
And OR those who just get a little too intense or have some stress or anxiety - and then behave/think in some of the schizophrenic symptom lists that were made up by the psychiatric industry = those sometimes make their way into the schizo-bucket as well.
There just isn't a ton of geniuses competing for the world champion schizo title, and there aren't even as many intelliigent people (especially those who can behave themselves and don't volunteer non-problematic info to the psych industry to compete with the MASSES OF IDIOTS & BROKEN humans who greedily bask in the diagnosis while sleep-eating Halloween candy on a 3AM Quetiapine munchy episode.

Anonymous Tue Oct 17 22:53:52 2023 No.15809543

>>15806614
>a person with full blown schizophrenia isn’t good at taking tests as a normie
>therefore they are not smart
No. The schizophrenia is what is making them score badly on the test. It doesn’t mean they weren’t highly intelligent before the illness set in. That Indian chick who stabbed that woman in Canada because the voice in her head she called the master told her to worked in high level finance before she stopped taking her meds.

Anonymous Tue Oct 17 23:10:19 2023 No.15809560
File: 10 KB, 418x207, Quetiapine_Conformer3D_medium.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>15809350
I will give it one last time, since you don't seem very sharp, and that's okay, as long as your willing to learn. Although so far it don't seem to work. I should probably stop poking fun at you, I might be
in the wrong here, but I digress.

They don't use major hypnotic, with minor tranquilizing effect effect.

They use major sedatives/tranquilizers, with minor hypnotic effect.

Why you ask, well such is life of molecular chemistry

2-[2-(4-benzo[b][1,4]benzothiazepin-6-ylpiperazin-1-yl)ethoxy]ethanol

also here are some links from drug database's
https://go.drugbank.com/drugs/DB01224
https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/5002

Anonymous Tue Oct 17 23:52:15 2023 No.15809608

>>15806614
Someone who has esoteric beliefs but isn't (outwardly) insane and good enough at pretending to be normal isn't diagnosed. My armchair pet theory is that schizophrenia is the result of a certain pattern of thinking that the individual is too stupid to actually be able to maintain.

Anonymous Wed Oct 18 00:06:10 2023 No.15809623

Normalfags have this idea that "smarter = more correct", but if that were the case, smart people would never disagree. I believe most mental illness is rooted in emotional illness.

So when you have a smart person with deep emotional traumas that they avoid facing, they develop intricate rationalizations for their complexes, and if they isolate themselves they don't have feedback to tell them they're wrong and they can go extremely deep into fear and denial.

I suspect hardcore schizophrenia is when a smart person, armed with these rationalizations and complexes faces some type of neurological decline. The schema of their delusions and subsequent emotional content of those beliefs still exist, but they lose the ability to tether them to reality.

I also suspect the more extreme variants of autism are the result of a mentally handicapped person experiencing deep trauma during their developmental years, but I'm less convinced of this.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 18 04:58:46 2023 No.15809960 >>15806624 Schizos have lower IQs before their first psychotic episode and diagnosis. Cope and seethe. >>15806633 The cause for reduced IQ and psychosis alike is having fucked up nerve cells.

Anonymous Wed Oct 18 05:01:29 2023 No.15809962

>>15806624
>As of today I have seen not a single study on this. because researchers
are fucking idiots
https://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/full/10.1176/appi.ajp.2008.07081242
>Conclusions: Years before the onset of psychotic symptoms, individuals with schizophrenia, as a group, demonstrate mean IQ scores approximately one-half of a standard deviation [7.5 IQ] below that of healthy comparison subjects.
5 seconds on Google Scholar

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 18 05:04:24 2023 No.15809964 >>15809960 John nash was a genius who was also a schizo so you better read up on your limited knowledge zoomer retard. Go watch 'a beautiful mind' too because it seems like you are the only one here who has no clue what they are talking about.

Anonymous Wed Oct 18 05:06:57 2023 No.15809972

>>15809623
Smarter is more correct. There's no way to reliably distinguish btn the two. A smart person is on average more correct than a less smart person if we tallied all their conclusions against each other. At this point, you are just playing retarded language and semantic games while chasing your own tail.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 18 05:09:07 2023 No.15809976 >>15809964 >A schizo was smart therefore schizos are smart kek

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 18 05:14:36 2023 No.15809988 >>15809976 You said schizos have low iq. I gave you a counterexample. You should be more careful with your wording if you want to be taken seriously zoomer retard. Didn't they teach you this in grammar school last week before you left school?

Anonymous Wed Oct 18 05:25:49 2023 No.15810016

>>15809988
I'll bite even through you're a drooling moron. Ashkenazi jews have an average of around 110, schizophrenics are 7.5 points lower, so 102.5. Perfectly sufficiently to have a genius from time to time.

IIRC schizophrenics with paranoia and hallucinations are less dumb than other subtypes

Anonymous Wed Oct 18 05:59:25 2023 No.15810074

>>15809988
Schizos don't necessarily have low IQ, but it should be obvious that during psychotic episodes they don't make sense at all. It's not an IQ problem but it's a problem with their illness. Most mental illnesses mean that things aren't rational, but schizophrenia is the queen of counter reality. I used to be close with someone who deteriorated. She messaged me on stream if I listened to the radio because they keep sending her subliminal messages. I surely must've hurt them and it's so weird! Why were they picking on her? Why are they so mean? It was fucking exhausting.

Anonymous Wed Oct 18 06:05:55 2023 No.15810081

>>15809560
>They use major sedatives/tranquilizers, with minor hypnotic effect.
No, they use antipsychotics, which only some retards refer to as tranquilizers. That's like "some people refer to dissociative personality disorder as schizophrenia, therefore schizophrenics have multiple personalities". That doesn't help us here.

>Quetiapine
Yes, it is an antipsychotic that also has a sedating effect. It is not one of the antipsychotic drugs that this other anon was taking.

I'm sure that there are schizophrenics who also have dissociative disorder. That doesn't mean that everyone has it.

Anonymous Wed Oct 18 06:11:43 2023 No.15810092

>>15810081
Leave me your email I will contact you, for adress and location then ship you a packet of
quetiapine

You can try them out then report back your findings. You will be knocked to the fucking ground mate. You have no idea what your talking about

Anonymous Wed Oct 18 06:43:30 2023 No.15810126

>>15809972
That hasn't been the case in my observation. Smart people can believe some REALLY stupid things. Maybe they have a better understanding of X or Y topic, but their knowledge is usually specialized and narrower than they'd admit.

Have you really never met an extremely smart person who's hopelessly naive about something outside of their expertise?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 18 06:47:10 2023 No.15810132 >>15810081 https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/psychological-medicine/article/antipsychotic-drugs-from-major-tranquilizers-to-neurosciencebasednomenclature/5EB6D9CEE2D1F8D75D26570A5BBA7E4A

Anonymous Wed Oct 18 06:51:18 2023 No.15810140

>>15810092
> a packet of quetiapine
But that's not what that other anon takes. Why do you keep bringing up a different drug? He's taking three different drugs and asks if he's being sedated. I don't give a shit if other drugs have a sedative effect. In fact, I know that other drugs have a sedative effect, but that's simply not what we're talking about here.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 18 06:54:06 2023 No.15810142 >>15810126 The professor who supervised my master thesis is super smart. He estimated the outcome of my one-year project that took a year in like an hour by writing a small C program. He also believes in homeopathy and healing stones.

Anonymous Wed Oct 18 06:56:24 2023 No.15810144

>>15810140
D2 blockade lead to sedation, do you not understand?

Fine want packet of Zyprexa, I will get it for you, if you think they are different in how they work.

Zyprexa by far the worst one.

you say they are not sedative that they are not tranquilizers, instead of
arguing I am offering you the choice of deciding for yourself.
Why not take a leap of faith, and trust your gut?

I cant wait

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 18 06:57:55 2023 No.15810148 >>15810132 >In summary, antipsychotic drugs should not be deducted to merely ‘sedatives’ and they are the only effective monotherapy for schizophrenia Your link is supporting what I'm saying.

Anonymous Wed Oct 18 07:07:32 2023 No.15810154

>>15810144
Drowsiness is a side effect that affects a certain percentage of patients. There's a difference between "I'm unhappy with this adverse effect" and "they're feeding me [completely different substance]". I used to have antidepressants that made me sleepy as a side effect (forgot the name, but IIRC, it had a similar effect to melatonin, maybe you know it). I wasn't being sedated. Also, that same drug inhibited my libido. I wasn't being cockblocked by my doctor. I discussed the latter side effect and decided I want to switch to a different medication that doesn't have this effect. Can you imagine the doctor's reaction if I had waltzed into her office like "why are you making my dick limp"?
People can't look inside your brain. My dick problems were unknown to her. And they were certainly unintended. If the other anon feels effects that are not the main effects of the drugs he's taking, he should communicate how he's feeling. If they wanted to sedate him, they would use a sedative, not meds that can have drowsiness as a side effect.

Anonymous Wed Oct 18 07:18:27 2023 No.15810161

>>15810140
what other anon?
I read the OP comment, thought of responses, and then a few semi-interesting responses...
If you guys got side tracked on medical advice to some other anon with schizo meds in the replies, then YOU are also correct.
and yes, argument mate is correct in a general sense that schizos are heavily prescribed to be medicated, very often in the general sense with quetiapine(sp?) as one of the basic general starting 'treatments'...
Mate, the actual answer is this = Schizo diagnosis (at least in the US) is generally reserved for idiots with behavioral problems. The drug complex manufactures a culture of patients to pump drugs to, and in the case of the antipsychotics and other similar medications the culture is that of the label "schizo". The behaviors of a schizo diagnosis are shown in some media like movies, television, etc...
The massive amount of idiots with behavioral problems greatly overshadows the separate category of intelligent people on the spectrum. A surprisingly significant amount of people in poverty with substance abuse issues... People who have been incarcerated, people who are victimized... dark stuff etc... etc... are then diagnosed as schizo.
an IQ-Test before or after being medicated-out on these folk is going to produce low scores... It's that simple.
Some random middle class highly intelligent gentleman may 'flex' stuff with sometimes things that may match a few of the MANY 'symptoms' behaviors etc... listed on their diagnosis and criteria... Say dude is a bit eccentric and he eats edibles baked from extracted marijuana...
Now he's on his podcast and maybe he sounds a little CONVOLUTED and esoteric and he's DELUSIONAL in his narcissistic eccentric way that a product he's hyping or the video itself is going to go viral...
-I mean dude can pump out a 120 IQ on a real in-person IQ session while slightly hungover and a breakfast that consisted of good bagles, coffee and weed..
iq schizo meme truth but rare vs. drug Co.

Anonymous Wed Oct 18 07:29:27 2023 No.15810171

>>15810154
>I wasn't being cockblocked by my doctor.
you actually kinda were
like passive aggressive cock blocking... he wasn't stealing your girlfriend with evil intentions, he just prescribed a drug knowing(assuming he has insight and understanding of the medications far beyond the sales pitch)
knowing full well that it shuts down most people's libido.
He did not value your libido..
2 possible: 1. he either felt you were so badly depressed and a match for the medication to save your life or your awful depression, etc... and placed that higher than probably crushing your libido,
or 2.) he flat out didn't care about your libido.
You did the right process and it sounds like he made suggestions that fit your needs, so that's good.
It's rough out here. medications as necessities only and have to research on your own into what the internet people echo about your medication if possible.

Anonymous Wed Oct 18 07:39:53 2023 No.15810182

>>15810161
>you guys got side tracked on medical advice to some other anon with schizo meds in the replies
Just follow the reply chain up and you'll find >>15808944:
>I'm given two injections monthly, 800 solian daily, two zyprexas and citalex. [...] When I talked to doctor, they said I'm not sedated
And later some retards who think that solian and zyprexa are sedatives.

I honestly feel a bit bad for that anon if he experiences side effects, but the last thing he needs is free-spinning schizos bombarding him with nonsense.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 18 07:42:26 2023 No.15810186 >>15810182 wow that's rough. I feel bad for dude as well.

Anonymous Wed Oct 18 07:45:41 2023 No.15810187

>>15810171
It was a she and it wasn't (passive) aggressive at all. She actually felt sorry and was extremely supportive of my decision to stop taking it.
>esearch on your own into what the internet people echo about your medication
Honestly, that sounds like the worst idea imaginable. Ever heard of the nocebo effect? Especially such vague symptoms like "I feel a bit tired" or "I don't know man, my drawing was somehow better before" are quite easy to convince yourself of. Yes, maybe what you're experiencing is actually real and a clinically proven side effect. But rather than go down schizo (meant pejoratively) rabbit holes, talk to your doctor. You're not in Guantanamo, you're in medical treatment. They want you to get better and they want to have a trustful relationship.

Anonymous Wed Oct 18 08:19:12 2023 No.15810217
File: 11 KB, 912x235, SEDATIOn.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>15810182
They do cause sedation, do you even understand what sedation is? You obviously don't, as of now only explanation for your insane attitude must be "Dunning Kruger"

I need to get to work, hope thread isnt 404'd by then

https://www.aafp.org/pubs/afp/issues/2010/0301/p617.html

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 18 10:04:05 2023 No.15810296 >>15810142 Academics are disproportionately mentally ill.

Anonymous Wed Oct 18 15:15:52 2023 No.15810578

>>15810126
Like i said, smarter people are more correct on average than less smart people. Just because someone believes something which most of the time turns out that there's no way to prove, such as being religious, doesn't mean they are less correct. I'd be willing to guess that what you thinks smart people are dumb on can't be prove and is usally a matter of opinion rather than fact. Politics and religion mostly whiich are usually a function of culture and upbringing.

Anonymous Wed Oct 18 15:43:18 2023 No.15810616

>>15806614
Believing in esoteric theories doesn't automatically make you smarter, intelligence doesn't come from your beliefs or conclusions it comes from the process you took to arrive there. Schizophrenics often jump to conclusions far too quickly or arrive at them from flawed means

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 18 19:09:50 2023 No.15810932 Kurt Gödel obviously had schizophrenia. He died of starvation because the only person he trusted not to poison his food was his wife.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 18 19:12:39 2023 No.15810936 >>15809536 >pic related quote The quote says the opposite.

Anonymous Wed Oct 18 19:12:55 2023 No.15810938
File: 80 KB, 850x400, quote-a-scientific-truth-does-not-triumph-by-convincing-its-opponents-and-making-them-see-max-planck-23-29-19-3234714255.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>15810578
>Like i said, smarter people are more correct on average than less smart people.
And like I said, that's not true in my experience. What are you basing this off of? And my observation isn't limited to politics and religion, smart people are often committed institutionalists, look how many high IQ people bought into the china virus hysteria and defended the pharmaceutical industry despite its terrible track record of fraud and manipulation.

You're mistaken in believing there's a clear category of knowledge called "facts" that can be objectively determined. Different people, however smart, can have wildly different ideas about what facts and ideas are credible or discredited.

The very arguments you're making are the types of biases that cloud smart people's thinking, if you're a smart person, you're proving my point.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 18 19:31:58 2023 No.15810966 scho and intel are both made up make-believe you can just make up your own system and then use that how do you measure schizo?? how to measure intel?? who can do it?!?! I CAN WITH YOUR MOM IN HER BED LAST NIGHT IT WAS... WONDERFUL

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 18 20:26:35 2023 No.15811060 >>15808533 We know mind exists. We actually cannot prove the independent existence of matter.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 18 22:08:05 2023 No.15811218 >>15806633 oh you're so mad little jewish boy that your science is a scam

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 18 22:11:22 2023 No.15811219 >>15807575 that comes from long-term antipsychotics usage and being locked up in mad house for long time any sane person would have white matter loss from the above, correlation doesn't equal causation

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 18 22:16:21 2023 No.15811227 >>15808944 youre being lobotomized

Anonymous Wed Oct 18 22:59:06 2023 No.15811292

>>15806829
chemical imbalance theory you're thinking of applies to depression. that anon's point was not that you are depressed, but psychotic, and your psychosis is induced by over-saturation of chemicals produced by over-stimulation or narcotics. these are not the same thing, and if you can't see the difference then yeah, you are low fucking iq.

of course you can sit there and deny that stimulation causes the brain to secrete chemicals. probably you will. and you'll continue to conflate these things because you're not smart enough to differentiate the two.

Anonymous Thu Oct 19 00:55:59 2023 No.15811422

>>15811292
>>15811292
>>15811292
okay let me play ball, a bit. First of its somewhat correct that you can introduce chemicals into the brain that will interact with neurotransmitters and receivers.
For all intend and purposes lets says its dopamine we are talking about here.

lets call accelerate =>Amphetamine
lets call decelerate =>Tranquilizers

both can cause psychosis, now what?

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 19 01:01:43 2023 No.15811434 >>15811422 >both can cause psychosis, now what? Can they? Show me some reports of "tranquilizer psychosis"

Anonymous Thu Oct 19 01:42:32 2023 No.15811492

>>15811434
Do you have a research account, some of them are ofc locked behind paywall =/.I don't feel comfortable to give you mine. But I can link a some that are open access .

I can explain somewhat how this came to be. So they wanted to find
at risk individuals before they got sick right, early prevention strategy or some shit. But they have like a 50-80% false positive(don't quote me on this)

so they found these kids put them on tranquilizers(anti-psycotic) and the kids get sick. The kids that did not getting put on tranquilizers(anti-psycothic) seems okay. There was one small group that always seemed to get sick, regardless =/

This is the same when you see depressed people, been given anti-psychotic for depression, then becoming psychotic and killing themself. Same with patients
given anti psychotic, then becoming even more psychotic(might be other factors at work here tho).

This has also happened in old folks home.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32436725/

I can post some more link, and/or link you some articles having many more, I have most studies as PDF format these days.

Anonymous Thu Oct 19 01:43:11 2023 No.15811493

Supps I have taken to recover from psychosis:
lithium orotate
creatine
omega-3 high dosage
magnesium
zinc
semax (careful with this one, raises dopamine)
CDP-choline
Lion's mane
B-complex
Vit C 1000mg+
vit d3
& Vigorous exercise

it's been about two months and I've already regained most of my prior functionality. Don't get any brain tingles, there are no symptoms, far as I can tell am basically fine...

Anonymous Thu Oct 19 01:54:31 2023 No.15811512

>>15807625
>- Morphing of brain structure, neuro-transmitters and receivers
This ngl i think if I went schizo I'd just either try to live with the madness or sui. Like I wouldn't be willing to take pills long term that make you retarded and fat.Like when i was in anorexia treatment they gave me antispychotics because I was crying about wanting to go home absolute garbage pills 0/10

Anonymous Thu Oct 19 01:58:44 2023 No.15811513

>>15806614
One theory I've read that seems good on this is that people with higher intelligence are more able to develop insight into the fact that their delusions and hallucinations are not real.

Another is the fact that the symptom of disorganize thoughts would make you perform worse on tests in general including IQ tests regardless of your intelligence.

3rd any data taken after antipsychotics are administered is bad data because anti psychotics cause literal brain damage and should be illegal. They probably only work by retarding the brain to the point that it can't create schizo symptoms at the cost of your intelligence

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 19 02:06:21 2023 No.15811521 >>15811513 oh and forgot to write why the first point matters. Being better at self managing schizophrenia symptoms means you are less likely to need help and get diagnosed.

Anonymous Thu Oct 19 03:20:59 2023 No.15811588
File: 138 KB, 1024x1024, 1697586458725701.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>15811512
The the drugs are no joke, that's for sure
>>15811513
>>15811521
I agree with you a lot, you seem sensible.

One anon proposed teaching schizos probability theory, just simple stuff, might be worth a shot. Also seems to work, that they have someone to speak to regularly, like a friend or someone they can bounce there schizo stuff of off, seems to be able to somewhat control it that way. Isolation is part of the
problem as well.

Teaching them self-management, and only seeking help
when needed would be huge, a large % would most likely be
able to participate in society if not made invalided by the medication.

you should read up about the "Salvation experiment"

http://www.moshersoteria.com/books/models-of-madness/

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/327325944_The_Soteria_Project_A_forerunner_of_a_third_way_in_psychiatry

Anonymous Thu Oct 19 03:28:58 2023 No.15811597

>>15811588
sorry linked a polish one

https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-1-4615-0567-9_40

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2632384/

https://www.psychiatriapolska.pl/The-Soteria-Project-A-forerunner-of-a-third-way-in-psychiatry-,91731,0,2.html

There are many more, showing you don't
need drugs at all, except for a few fringe cases.
The outlier in the outlier if you will

The truth is stranger than fiction, that's my
conclusion as of today, might change with time.

Anonymous Thu Oct 19 03:37:40 2023 No.15811603
File: 354 KB, 752x711, ebf47552db30a786ac81d4178a4e590a.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>15806614
You answered your own thread.
Schizophrenia, although allowing some pretty outlandish thinking and potential for problem solving, is usually bogged down by the constant strain or pressure of it's negative symptoms.

However, there has been some insight showing that those with extremely high level IQ actually see things in the same way schizophrenics do. For example the "Rotating Mask" or "Dancing Lady" optical illusion. Schizophrenics do not see the rotating mask nor the dancing lady as their brains interpret information differently. From what I read, people with extremely high IQ can not only interpret the illusion as normal, but can essentially 'switch' their interpretation to take things at an absolute surface value as such they can see and interpret the illusions without any distraction.

The "flatness" of the schizophrenic mind being unable to see the illusion is also present when a schizophrenic attempts art. Everything created has a sense of "flatness" to it, lacking a mental comprehension of the contour or how it fits with one another.

Picrel is art created by diagnosed schizophrenic artist Bryan Charnley. You can see traces of this "flatness" that I mentioned previously. The nails do not appear three dimensional at all, there doesn't seem to be 'depth' between the protruding points and the intersecting points.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 19 04:37:41 2023 No.15811658 >>15808460 >t. NPC Enjoy hell!

Anonymous Thu Oct 19 05:39:32 2023 No.15811719 [DELETED]

>>15810938
And what is valuable about your experience. Are you a psychiatrist that is able to evaluate whether someone is both smart and also an expert in whatever you deem them not smart in? You expect anyone to take your anecdotal evidence as fact. Can you even pinpoint the exact bias you think i'm making or did you just splurt that out to intimidate me into not responding? And i am basing my argument on the definition. Anyone who scores an iq test higher than average is taking a test that evaluates the ability to come to more correct conclusions about factual statements than the average iq scorer. This is a definition that you can't refute unless you don't believe in the ability of an iq test to evaluate such criteria.

Anonymous Thu Oct 19 05:40:59 2023 No.15811722 [DELETED]

>>15810938
And what is valuable about your experience. Are you a psychiatrist that is able to evaluate whether someone is both smart and also an expert in whatever you deem them not smart in? You expect anyone to take your anecdotal evidence as fact. Can you even pinpoint the exact bias you think i'm making or did you just splurt that out to intimidate me into not responding? And i am basing my argument on the definition. Anyone who scores an iq test higher than average has taking a test that evaluates the ability to come to more correct conclusions about factual statements than the average iq scorer. This is a definition that you can't refute unless you don't believe in the ability of an iq test to evaluate such criteria.

Anonymous Thu Oct 19 05:43:03 2023 No.15811730 [DELETED]

>>15810938
And what is valuable about your experience. Are you a psychiatrist that is able to evaluate whether someone is both smart and also an expert in whatever you deem them not smart in? You expect anyone to take your anecdotal evidence as fact. Can you even pinpoint the exact bias you think i'm making or did you just splurt that out to intimidate me into not responding? And i am basing my argument on the definition. Anyone who scores an iq test higher than average is taken a test that evaluates the ability to come to more correct conclusions about factual statements than the average iq scorer. This is a definition that you can't refute unless you don't believe in the ability of an iq test to evaluate such criteria in which case there's no point in arguing with you.

Anonymous Thu Oct 19 05:44:06 2023 No.15811732

>>15810938
And what is valuable about your experience. Are you a psychiatrist that is able to evaluate whether someone is both smart and also an expert in whatever you deem them not smart in? You expect anyone to take your anecdotal evidence as fact. Can you even pinpoint the exact bias you think i'm making or did you just splurt that out to intimidate me into not responding? And i am basing my argument on the definition. Anyone who scores an iq test higher than average has taken a test that evaluates the ability to come to more correct conclusions about factual statements than the average iq scorer. This is a definition that you can't refute unless you don't believe in the ability of an iq test to evaluate such criteria in which case there's no point in arguing with you.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 19 09:33:03 2023 No.15811898 >>15811227 Yes, unfortunately, and I know that and being here is doom.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 19 09:42:14 2023 No.15811899 >>15811898 Why can't you leave?

Anonymous Thu Oct 19 09:55:50 2023 No.15811911
File: 197 KB, 566x426, nice.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>15811493
Good for you man, I am happy to hear.Nice supplement list, I have seen some studies in supplement/nutrition vs placebo against psychosis.Its pretty set in stone nutrition have huge impact

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 19 10:00:24 2023 No.15811917 >>15811493 >>15811911 >meds bad >supps good Do schizos really?

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 19 10:08:25 2023 No.15811923 File: 60 KB, 703x476, 1697415983545337.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15811917 the only medication worse than tranquilizers(AP) is chemo therapy, let that sink in.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 19 10:16:31 2023 No.15811931 >>15806614 level of flat earth belief and intelligence are inversely correlated

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 19 10:21:55 2023 No.15811935 >>15811923 So why gobble up supplements then?

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 19 10:53:43 2023 No.15811952 >>15806614 >How the fuck is it Schizophrenia and intelligence are negatively correlated? Because schizophrenia leads to hypermeaning, schizos construct meaning where no meaning is

Anonymous Thu Oct 19 11:29:20 2023 No.15811976

>>15811899
I've been to court, and they denied by law, my right about representing self in front of institution, my right to property. I can't sign agreement and manipulate with my own money. Otherwise I would be living on my own, and I have enough money to do that but I can't because of law.

Fucking 3rd world country. Is it against human rights?

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 19 12:07:48 2023 No.15812012 >>15811976 Yes it is against human rights. But psychiatry are bound by no rules and can enforce there power without any repercussion. They are legit most insane group, in human history, Jew's had it fucking easy.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 19 12:09:03 2023 No.15812014 >>15812012 Any recommendations of actions I can take?

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 19 12:10:19 2023 No.15812015 >>15811976 Why did you commit a crime?

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 19 12:19:22 2023 No.15812028 >>15812014 Nope sadly. Here in Norway you can appeal to something called the Stategovernance this group is disconnected from psyciatry, They are still doctors, but are on the side of the patient. So people usually get away

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 19 12:27:28 2023 No.15812045 >>15812015 No, I didn't commit a crime. It was different kind of court. Here you can be ripped of rights without committing a crime.

Anonymous Thu Oct 19 12:33:35 2023 No.15812053

>>15811976
>Is it against human rights?
Depends. What reason did they give? If you're legit retarded (like IQ 50) they can do it, but also if your illness means you're a threat to yourself or others.
>>15812012
>But psychiatry are bound by no rules and can enforce there power without any repercussion.
That's not true at all.
>>15812014
Impossible to say without knowing more about your case and where you are. There are typically patients' rights organisations, but without knowing where you are and without knowing about your conditions we cannot say if you have a good case or not.

Anonymous Thu Oct 19 12:43:40 2023 No.15812072

>>15812053
wow. just wow. You sure seem informed.

They can take peoples right away, based on assumptions. It have already been used as a political tool numerous times in the US. you don't think its erri that a group can take random
people drug them down on something similar to a synthetic
neurotoxin, and throw away the key?

You should probably read up on that. Seeing your so informed
and all that. Perhaps you want some reading materials,
or are you able to find such information yourself?

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 19 12:44:54 2023 No.15812074 >>15812072 Yeah I can definitely see why they institutionalized you.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 19 12:46:17 2023 No.15812076 >>15812074 great you want that reading material then I assume?

Anonymous Thu Oct 19 12:52:51 2023 No.15812078

>>15812072
I'm sort of informed about Germany and Switzerland. In Switzerland it's a bit easier to keep people against their will or use forced medication. Like I said, without knowing that other anon's circumstances, it's impossible to give any advice.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 19 12:53:53 2023 No.15812082 >>15812076 You are talking to two different anons.

Anonymous Thu Oct 19 13:01:20 2023 No.15812091
File: 48 KB, 489x472, 1695942639228205.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>15812078
>>15812078
Norway is bats shit insane. Norway have been notoriously known as some as the absolute most diabolic shit related to psychiatry like ever.
Yeah it varies from country to country, your completely right. I have focused primarily on the US and my own home country. I might have overstepped, my bad fren.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 19 13:02:56 2023 No.15812092 >>15812082 I know, one is a troll other is friendly, nothing more to it.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 19 13:09:01 2023 No.15812097 >>15812028 Can you post some links according to Norway? I legit need help.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 19 13:16:15 2023 No.15812105 >>15812091 On what grounds did they strip you off your rights?

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 19 13:21:38 2023 No.15812118 >>15812053 I've spend too much money on computers and bitcoin (Bought BNB at 7 dollars).

Anonymous Thu Oct 19 13:33:45 2023 No.15812134
File: 59 KB, 1024x982, 1697402690735166.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>15812097
I assume your Norwegian then. So I am writing it as I would if i would advice any other schizos here
in Norway.

General info
https://www.statsforvalteren.no/portal/Helse-omsorg-og-sosialtjenester/Tvang/

Submitting complain info
https://www.statsforvalteren.no/portal/skjult-side-klageknapp/klage-til-statsforvalteren/

Click on appropriate location, and call. Do not appeal to the control-commison, corruptions runs deep
https://www.statsforvalteren.no/portal/Om-oss/Kontakt-oss/

You can also complain to the psychiatrist and for the complain to be directed
to "Statsforvalteren" but do not, and I repeat do not complain to
"Kontroll Kommisjonen", this will just make everything worse.
As soon as you have complained all treatment must be stopped! They are not allowed to treat you before your complain have been resolved. This can takes days sometimes up to a month.

You will also get access to a lawyer, the state is forced to give you one, there are specific group that takes such cases, they are usually okay. Lawyer have next to no influence anyway.

If you have family, as many have, they will be contacted, and they will be asked all manner of
question related to you, make sure you have your stories straight, if your family hate you for
some reason it might provide further hardships.

If your have any behavior problems like eye contact and the like, or don't like
eye contact, you need to man the fuck up, or your dead in the water.
Don't raise your voice, don't get angry don't get agitated, if you can do that your
good. The meeting is just you your laywer and the "Statsforvalter" no one else.

Just push all your hatred to the fucking depth of your mind and sit your ass on-top of it.
Don't talk about anything in this thread, these people don't know anything about this drug besides
that they are called anti-psychotic, if you say they are neurotoxic, or cause brain damage, or
anything, like this they will continue the forced treatment.

best of luck fren.

Anonymous Thu Oct 19 13:40:24 2023 No.15812146

>>15811732
We probably don't disagree entirely then, I'd agree that smarter populations can have a more accurate picture of the world in the aggregate, but you're naive to pretend that you can use IQ as a measure of the ability to discern "facts".

I'm not a relativist, but there are cultural and personal biases that cloud even smart people's judgment. You completely ignored my examples and don't seem to know how to be objective, so you can believe what you want to believe. I'll continue believing you illustrate my point.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 19 13:42:42 2023 No.15812150 >>15812118 What's BNB? I doubt that buying some stocks or cryptocurrency at a particular price is enough to strip someone off their rights. How would anyone even find out about this?

Anonymous Thu Oct 19 13:47:32 2023 No.15812155

>>15812150
Probably a social guardian connected to the social services. They see high spending they say he is manic, or psychotic or some shit. That's literally
all it takes, some subjective opinion and into the cock-o-nest you go.

I really need to get going, will check back later.

Anonymous Thu Oct 19 13:51:17 2023 No.15812160

>>15812150
I must had declared my spending in front of judge.

I live in Slovakia, it's socialistic country from eastern block.

It literally works that way you aren't even judged on anything but psychiatrist's report to judge, and that was far fetched bullshit. Literally psychiatrist lied in their description of my mental state.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 19 13:52:19 2023 No.15812161 >>15812150 I talked about crypto assets, she noted "cryptographical sets".

Anonymous Thu Oct 19 13:54:18 2023 No.15812162

>>15806614
I assume it's because stupidity is a consequence of high mutational load and schizophrenia tends to kick in when you have a lot of mutations to specific genes. Result: a high co-incidence of people being both stupid and schizophrenic, or schizoaffective, or schizotypal.

>>15808310
The supposed genius schizos are autistic. High-functioning autism combined with antisocial traits has a lot of "symptom overlap" with various types of the schiz. They act the same way sometimes, but for entirely different underlying reasons.

This is why you consistently see arguments about whether Newton was an autist or a schizo. He was an autist, but on the surface that frequently looks like a schizophrenic having a very bad day.

Anonymous Thu Oct 19 14:57:56 2023 No.15812240

>>15812160
I never had to justify anything in front of a judge. I feel like there are 17 layers to this story you are omitting.
>>15812161
That's actually a bit funny
>>15812155
>all it takes, some subjective opinion and into the cock-o-nest you go.
That, and being in a position where you have a guardian. Most people don't.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 19 15:48:02 2023 No.15812311 >>15812240 It's only that judge is not judging... It's doctor. And judge completely and blindly accepts doctor's uninformed decision.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 19 18:55:20 2023 No.15812505 >>15811931 That's because a vast vast majority of flerfs are just redneck fundamentalist yokels and not schizo at all.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 19 18:57:47 2023 No.15812510 >>15806614 Because believing bullshit is very easy. See the Dunning-Kruger effect and the extreme confidence expressed in beliefs held at 90 or so IQ.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 19 20:32:19 2023 No.15812606 >>15812505 Most of them are left-wing hippie yoga people if their gurus are to be believed. Their most popular content creator Eric Dubay is a Hindu convert who hates Christianity and attacks Christians at every opportunity.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 19 22:50:58 2023 No.15812777 >>15806614 >How the fuck is it Schizophrenia and intelligence are negatively correlated? there are a lot of very dumb schizos for every st. terry there's at least a few dozen homeless crackheads shitting on street corners.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 20 01:28:50 2023 No.15812951 anyone know who the person in the OP's image is?

Anonymous Fri Oct 20 06:50:02 2023 No.15813250 [DELETED]

>>15812146
Yeah because you are an expert in evaluating intelligence and all supposed areas where they might be wrong. Meanwhile, i've given you my basis while you have yet to provide yours. All you do is go on about biases and personal experiences as if those give any objectivity as you continually accuse me of being against. You have no refutation against any of my arguments. You have to do better than anecdotes and worthless personal experiences.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 20 06:52:20 2023 No.15813256 >>15806614 Internet meme "schizo" and psychiatric diagnostic schizophrenia are at most tangentially related

Anonymous Fri Oct 20 06:53:49 2023 No.15813260

>>15812146
Yeah because you are an expert at evaluating intelligence and all supposed areas where smart people might be 'wrong'. Meanwhile, i've given you my basis while you have yet to provide yours. All you do is go on about biases and personal experiences as if those give any objectivity as you continually accuse me of being against. You have no refutation against any of my arguments. You have to do better than ad hominems and worthless personal experiences.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 20 19:17:25 2023 No.15813876 >>15812606 Dubay is controlled opposition like all Flerf talking heads as the movement exists to discredit conspiracy theories in general.

Anonymous Fri Oct 20 20:55:28 2023 No.15814038

>>15806614
i suffered from a pychosis episode, went to bed stressed out during exam month, prefrontal cortex or something misfired, tried to easse myself down, knew it will be bad, bad experience overall

also happened while i trained my chest muscles, went total WHAT THE FUCK, felt totatlly horrible, then in the train, and the feeling cannot be described

Tldr: i feel shit and i cant cope with it, until the day i die

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 20 20:58:15 2023 No.15814039 >>15813876 If he was a paid agent for the government he wouldn't be living like a hobo in Thailand. He's just a normal hippie liberal retard.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 21 00:41:15 2023 No.15814225 >>15814039 Do you not know how little the janitors are paid?

Anonymous Sat Oct 21 19:13:05 2023 No.15815305

>>15806614
Intelligence is measured by taking timed pattern recognition tests based on others' *opinions* of what the patterns are.
A schizo could spend too much time looking for additional patterns AND find patterns that the test designers didn't even know were there.
Modern intelligence tests are about alignment to test maker ideals more than anything. There is no good means for measuring intelligence.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 21 19:17:13 2023 No.15815314 what a thread, schizos should be euthanized

Anonymous Sat Oct 21 20:17:04 2023 No.15815379

>>15806614
The majority of mentally ill are retarded.
But that's mostly because once you get down to about the low to mid 80s in IQ, people are physiologically incapable of empathy (i.e. they simply don't have the raw brainpower for it), meaning that retards are just natural sociopaths.

Anonymous Sun Oct 22 07:38:56 2023 No.15816086

>>15815305
The schizo's pattern recogniion ability is not consistent, yes he could find patterns all day long, but they don't follow any logic. The differencce btn geniuses and schizos is that geniuses are consistent, schizos can't even explain what their patterns mean, meanwhile a truly intelligence person will be able to break down complex material to simpler material consistently. They have a very high signal to noise ratio while schizos have it very low. Normies on the other hand filter too much signal and don't even know what patterns are half the time unless their social circle okays it in which case they can start accepting certain patterns as useful signals.

>>	Barkun Sun Oct 22 07:42:19 2023 No.15816087 Menza and other IQ tests don't test pattern recognition and half the answers to the harder questions are wrong. There are people dumber than schizos, they're called academics.

Barkun Sun Oct 22 07:45:48 2023 No.15816093
File: 613 KB, 1980x1320, 16876961521852.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>15816087
But don't trust me. Trust the tons of people clogging up reddit or 4chan with moderator fortified insulting behaviour, truists and darkists or even the team at Hubble who don't know how to scope stars in space properly. Pic related. It's the same blue star repeated.

>>	Barkun Sun Oct 22 07:57:10 2023 No.15816104 They'll seek to ban me for what I said. But not this >The schizo's pattern recogniion ability is not consistent Which is truism and terrorism. It's a big academic con. Half these people are too stupid to know they're evil.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 22 07:59:57 2023 No.15816108 >>15816093 All of those stars are too small to resolve as more than one pixel. What you're seeing is the diffraction pattern. If you had more colors to work with you would see the differing spectra

Barkun Sun Oct 22 08:01:47 2023 No.15816109
File: 208 KB, 909x909, 1697446121029277.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

For example. You think mathematically. You don't do math - at all. Writing sums on paper is stupidity that's thought to teach math. Most math graduates or PhDs are truly mentally chained retards.

/Thread

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 22 08:04:33 2023 No.15816113 >>15816093 >It's the same blue star repeated. See, that's what we mean when we say that schizo pattern finding is useless.

>>	Barkun Sun Oct 22 08:14:54 2023 No.15816126 >>15816113 >>15816108 Tards.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 22 08:19:42 2023 No.15816133 >>15816126 What do you do all day? Are you employed or just collecting neetbucks in your mom's basement? You are always here making retarded posts all day?

>>	Barkun Sun Oct 22 08:20:51 2023 No.15816134 >>15816133 Lol you are so fucking retarded. I don't even understand your 'look I'm a retard' pun you keep repeating.

>>	Barkun Sun Oct 22 08:21:53 2023 No.15816136 Aewwwwh

>>	Barkun Sun Oct 22 08:23:23 2023 No.15816138 >>15816133 Because I love you too much. I love the retarded. Yo... Stay away from my baby ok?

>>	Barkun Sun Oct 22 08:24:28 2023 No.15816141 I'm sorry. I am retarded. I have schizophrenia.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 22 08:25:10 2023 No.15816144 >>15816141 how old are you?

>>	Barkun Sun Oct 22 08:25:29 2023 No.15816145 dresses up as a bit of poo I'm sorry ok? What more can I do?

>>	Barkun Sun Oct 22 08:26:35 2023 No.15816148 >>15816144 I'm one.

Anonymous Sun Oct 22 12:50:09 2023 No.15816432

>>15806614
Most actual schizos aren't heckin wholesome chungus tormented geniuses like Terry Davis and are actually violently retarded bums who got their brain fried by the illness.
What people call "schizo" is actually just run of the mill eccentricity and cluster A personality "disorders".

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 22 17:34:25 2023 No.15816723 >>15806614 maybe you are speaking about paranoia Schizophrenics is just a cognitive dissonance on another level. We are all schizo, the only difference between normal people and ill ones is that ill people take it seriously.

Anonymous Sun Oct 22 23:15:55 2023 No.15817164

I think the problem with answering the question in the OP is that the manifestation of mental illness is too dependant on the individual to actually generalize the impact of the illness on the intelligence of the ill. ie You have one who's a schizotypal who's illness causes increased pattern recognition which could carry over to other intellectual pursuits, and another who's delusions are so strong they intrude on the person's ability to function let alone rationalize

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/sci/ - Science & Math