/sci/ - Science & Math

Real numbers existing.

all of it

That OP's opinion matters.

>>15753988

Go on. Define existence.

>>15753985
the absolute biggest cope in science is
>scientists are smart and high iq
one or two scientists do something smart 100 years ago and every unproductive failure scientist on the planet, millions of them, all claim credit for the one smart guy's deed without even thinking about it
but when nasa loses a mars probe because they can't do a unit conversion then suddenly the scientists stop claiming credit for other scientists' work.
you don't see bicycle mechanics going around saying their brilliant geniuses because bicycle mechanics invented the airplane, you don't see portrait artists claiming intellectual superiority because one of their own invented the telegraph, neither of those groups have the psychological need to lie about how intelligent they are, but scientists do.
>hey guys, one scientist was arrested for fucking a dog
>that means all scientists fuck dogs

>>15753985
manmade global warming.

>>15753985
Impact factor

>>15753985
superdeterminism isn't a cope, it's correct.

>>15753985
String theory

>>15754244

LOL

>muh hidden variables

What a GARBAGE theory

>>15754244
It's unfalsifiable.

>>15754480
>It's unfalsifiable.
which means it isn't science

>>15754074
>the absolute biggest cope in science is
>>scientists are smart and high iq
especially ever since they let all the women in

>>15754519
no it's unfalsifiable science
this is departure from the science you've grown to know and love
it is unfalsifiable science is to science
what quantum physics is to classical mechanics
it is a paradigm shift
get used to it
if you can't get behind it, move out of the way for the smart people, the difference makers, the trailblazers, the revolutionists.
you've had your time, now let us have ours!

>>15754470
because?

>>15754480
it's exactly as unfalsifiable as quantum mechanics. you can't test indeterminism either.

>>15754848

Because inventing a theory with zero evidentiary support is garbage. Might as well hypothesize that we're a brain in a vat. Same level of conjecture.

>>15755142
>Because inventing a theory with zero evidentiary support
you mean like quantum mechanics?

>>15754256
Actual best answer.

Everett, superdeterminism, RQM all reducd to Copenhagen anyways; since none of these effectively remove the measurement postulate from QM, all are equally pointless for describing observations made by measuring physical systems (which is, you know, the entire purpose of physics...no big deal!), thus shut up and calculate (i.e. Copenhagen).

>>15755153
Funny joke.

>>15755142
I hypothesize that beneath the Planck scale, everything is just little photos of me doing your mom

>>15755372
>Everett, superdeterminism, RQM all reducd to Copenhagen anyways
false

>>15755153

So you disagree with the observed phenomenon based on what?

>>15755765
see
>>15754850

>>15753985
>>15754132
You:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11lPhMSulSU

>>15753985
gravitational singularities

Is "dark matter" sort of like the Heisenberg Compensator on the Star Trek TNG transporter, about which, when quizzed on how it works, the production designer answered "very well, thank you!" ?

>>15758907

kek

>>15753985
the theory of gravity

>>15754555

>>15754244
>>15754470
>>15754480
>>15754519
>>15754559
>>15754848
>>15754850
>>15755142
>>15755765
>>15756182
Both determinism and indeterminism are falsifiable.
To falsify a non deterministic theory, you construct a deterministic mathematical model/theory that you can then use to predict with 100% accuracy what is going to happen to the particle (i.e. you can predict with 100% accuracy when a proton decays or which slit the particle goes through). This would falsify non determinism.
To falsify a deterministic model, you produce a counter example that can not be predicted using that model. This would falsify the deterministic model.

As it is now, there is no deterministic model to explain quantum mechanics, but it is in principle falsifiable. Thus the scientific position is that determinism is false and the universe is not deterministic.

>>15760974
>schizophasia

>>15761013
There is nothing in that post that is word salad. Non determinism is the currently accepted scientific position. Sorry that you're not a scientist.

>>15760974
wrong.

determinism =/= predictability

The scientific method.

Science is solar guided. Like a spider building it's web, humans conduct science. You don't have just one method, though experiment or elimination is common, doing an experiment is simple. You can do science on your own, you don't need to ledge anything or provide evidence to people like you're in court. What you're looking for is results via any method that discovers them.

It's a big academic con.

>>15761201
>you don't need to ledge anything or provide evidence to people
You do if you want people to believe you didn't just pull something out of your ass. >>>/b/ is more your board.

>>15761204
This isn't church. I'm not looking for attention. Chances are, if I discover a new tech, I'll build it and sell it. Or use it, if it's a super advanced retard repellant, on you.

>>15761207
GET BWNED KYADS

>>15753985
>many worlds
Isn't this more of an anti-cope or am I misunderstanding what we're coping with here? Many worlds is downright horrific in its implications.

>>15761264
>Many worlds is downright horrific in its implications.
what are you going to do? cry about it?

>>15753985
chromosomes.

>>15761271
Believe COPEnhagen instead.

>>15761264
>Many worlds is downright horrific in its implications.
How?

>>15761292
How?

>>15761325
chud pls

>>15761332
What?

>>15753985
>Gravity
Then why aren't objects floating around me retard

>>15761310
Nothing whatsoever matters and is all inevitable and one of infinite minute variations of the same event except with an opposite spin particle in a distant galaxy as well as infinite versions where something different happened. If you murder someone in many worlds, well, you did that in infinite other worlds, but you also didn't do it in infinite other worlds, for example.

>>15753988
who said that they exist retard, mathematics is made up

>>15761264

They Invented it to save their stupid theory

>>15761337

One, you quoted the wrong person. Two, all natural law is a mental construction.

>>15760941
i'm so sorry that you're clinically retarded

>>15753985
>What is the biggest COPE in science? Some candidates:

All humans are equally intelligent.

>>15754074
>you don't see bicycle mechanics going around saying their brilliant geniuses because bicycle mechanics invented the airplane.
they should do that
and start calling each other "doctor"

>>15753985
got to be mathematical platonism

>>15761507
>nigeria, uganda, sierra leone all have higher IQs than north africa
What's going on here?

>>15754256
String theory is pretty valid

>>15761460
No it isn't
>>15761464
Wrong
>>15762188
Wrong

>>15762742
cry about it

>>15762834
Math is real and the laws of nature are real. Cry about it.

>>15762887
maths is real insofar as psychological constructions are real, yes. i'm glad we agree

>>15762963
Nope. Math is real because quantity is real. It is not contingent on mental constructs. Quite the opposite, mental states are mathematical constructs.

>>15762971
the concept of quantity is a mental construct. the natural numbers are an abstraction of our experience with discrete objects; the real numbers are an abstraction of our experience with measurement, andsoforth. but these are all psychological constructions, things we invent to describe what we experience

>>15762976
>the concept of quantity is a mental construct
Nope. Quantity is real and not a mental construction. We use our mind to understand quantity. Doesn't make quantity contingent on a mind. The opposite, the mind is contingent on quantity.

>>15753985
uninformed midwits discussing science on 4chan boards instead of actually doing it

>>15762981
Which one?

>>15762551
string theory is gay as fuck

>WE'RE IN A HECKIN STRING OF GALAXIES IN THE UNIVERSE IM A DUMB FUCKING GOOK

no thanks, sticking to logic

>>15761507
link me a study that said that

>>15762981
>>15762976

Guys. The truth is both. Math is made up in the mind, but the mind is the only thing that is "real." You're both right. Read Kant.

>>15754074
This but realising that IQ is a midwit concept.

The Axis of Evil in cosmology. Look into it.

>>15753985
Dark matter definitely is. It's just an excuse for 'our model is wrong,' and 'a magical form of matter that conveniently gets to ignore certain laws of matter' is easier than 'our understanding of gravity is wrong and needs to be replaced.'

Many worlds isn't science, it's just some weird bit of fantasy fiction. It makes no predictions, it can't be tested. Useless.

>>15765200
correct, thats why they have to lie about being intelligent, if they were legitimately as intelligent as they all claim they are then they would have something to show for that intelligence

>>15766195
>Get IQmogged by some chad
>He does literally everything faster and better than me
>For some reason though, he lives his life differently than me?
>Says the things I do and value are objectively worthless!?
>While he's assembling Exodia with his life, I'm furiously hustling to win Uno!

Yeah these high IQ copers never show me their superiority in the things that I care about! That means I win!

>>15766195
Chad is never going to fuck you and he isn't even going to exist in a few years when we begin to genetically modify humans.

>>15764904
This. Even Steven Pinker carefully admitted we're not equal. Only Bill Nye tier """scientists""" say there's no evidence

>>15764904
>link me a study that said that

Exact opposite, find **ANY** standardized IQ test that shows ZERO racial differences.

>>15766238

"Broken System"

NONE of the top 100 universities in the world are in Africa.
NONE of the world's top 500 largest companies are in Africa.

>>15764893
Think again m8

>>15754256
the greatest cope is the most accurate description

>>15753985
mrna "vaccines"

>>15754074
nerds think life is an rpg and presume that they since they didn't get blessed with athleticism or charisma then they must get extra bonus points elsewhere.
they happily disregard the theory of evolution they profess belief in when it comes to self assessment
its all a massive cope.
evolution dictates that some members of every species will be the ones with bad genetics

>>15753985
"infinite universe"

> mfw Zeno's paradox proves the universe is finite

>>15766969
>evolution dictates that some members of every species will be the ones with bad genetics
You're such a member

>>15753985
Dark matter does exist though. All attempts at MOND failed real world examples.
Dark energy also exists.

>>15754244
So you believe the universe conspires to trick observers? The absolute state of jewtube retards.
>>15758907
Dark matter just describes a type of matter that is even harder to detect than neutrinos but which must exist.

>>15766189
>It's just an excuse for 'our model is wrong,'
The other theory aka modified gravity has been debunked too many times to be a serious contender anymore.
>and 'a magical form of matter that conveniently gets to ignore certain laws of matter'
How is it any more magical than neutrinos you fucking retard?

>>15766238
you made the claim bruh, you know how it works

>>15753985

>determinism is a cope

u wot mate? it's the free will "i earned my life" "personal responsibility" cucks who are coping. and hard.

>>15767521
Considering randomness seemingly exists and is local (spanning billions of light years) hidden variables have been debunked, determism isn't a real thing in our universe. Whether that means free will is real or not is unknown.

>>15753985
>dark matter

As a layman isn't this shit just some made up force so the existing equations add up?

Like if I claimed 2 + 2 = 5 because you also have to add the dark 1 as well

>>15767579
We can observe that our universe behaves in a way that indicates there's more matter than what we can actually see. To explain that, two major theories have emerged to explain that phenomenon: dark matter (aka hard to detect matter) and MOND (aka gravity acts differently on large scales). MOND has so far failed to account for several real world examples of galaxies while dark matter has been consistent with all real world examples so far which indicates that there really is a form of matter that exists and is hard to detect, even harder that neutrinos.

>>15767578
>randomness seemingly exists
a seeming is not proof of anything. anyway, randomness does not seem to exist anymore than it seems not to exist. there is no evidence for or against it, because it's impossible to test for it.

>hidden variables have been debunked
no they haven't.

>>15767968
>a seeming is not proof of anything.
Determinism doesn't exist locally tho, that much is proven.
> anyway, randomness does not seem to exist anymore than it seems not to exist.
That's your opinion but actual physics indicates it either exists or hidden variables are global (i.e. the universe conspires to trick us).
>because it's impossible to test for it.
It's reasonable enough to believe it does exist.
>no they haven't.
Locally they have been debunked.

>>15767990
>Determinism doesn't exist locally tho, that much is proven.
no it isn't, lol. nonlocality has NOT been proven, by any bell test, or any other kind of experiment.

"One merely has to note that measuring violations of Bell's inequality, no matter how entertaining the experimental setup, cannot tell us which of the assumptions to the theorem were violated."

(source: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fphy.2020.00139/full))

They keep trying to push the whole "Dinosaurs actually had feathers!" thing, but if you actually look at the list, it's a bunch of stuff like the Chingchongasaurus discovered in 2019 and the Qiaoxiuiuiu Xinjiangius discovered in 2020
Chinese lie about everything else, I bet they're trying to ruin dinosaurs too
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_non-avian_dinosaur_species_preserved_with_evidence_of_feathers

>>15758907
Dark Matter/Dark Energy is a magic number that gets trotted out whenever some behavior of the universe does not fit general relativity. Because no one has come up with a better idea than general relativity, magical matter is still an object of earnest search.

As more observed phenomenon conflict even with dark matter/dark energy handwaving, it becomes increasingly likely that general relativity is just wrong, but no one's even close to presenting a superior broadly-applicable replacement. I assume for experts it's pretty frustrating to be stuck between searching for something that almost certainly doesn't exist and trying to replace a theory that seems largely irreplaceable.

>>15761339
Good thing it's basically just something a pothead came up with on a couch and isn't relevant to serious people anywhere outside of fiction.

>>15761507
I'd say a bigger cope is that there isn't clear speciation within homo sapiens. Those lines are not necessarily where we might draw them, but they're definitely there and speciation has happened more quickly in similarly complex species besides humans.

>>15767452
Because it has never been directly observed despite the expenditure of hundreds of millions of dollars, tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of man-hours, decades of attempts, god knows how much energy, all while being (allegedly) the vast majority of matter in the universe, found everywhere.

Neutrinos have been directly observed. Even a black hole has been observed more directly than dark matter despite being, by definition, impossible to directly observed. You just need to produce one (1) directly-observed dark matter particle. Until then it's fairy dust, it's God, it's 'trust me bro.'

>>15753985
>unified theory
>quantum computing
>fusion power
>green energy
>objectivity

>>15769163
>objectivity
add "ethics" to that list. every scientists has their price, its often extremely cheap

>>15769133
kek what a retard
stick a fork in the wall socket bro

>>15754036
Existence doesn't exist. Non-existent abstractions (like "gravity", "force" (as a noun), etc., which "physics" is riddled with) are usually of verbs or adjectives, in this case of the verb exist, which means located measurably distant from from the tree in my front garden.

>>15769697
Just as soon as you produce one (1) particle of directly-observed dark matter. I'm not too worried about that happening though, lol.

>>15753985
>Real Life
>Intelligence is a natural trait (it’s beamed)
>0/0 is undefined

>>15753985
>what is consciousness

>>15770235
>just as soon as you produce dry water bro
yeah dw about it lmao

>>15753985
Physicalism/materialism is a massive cope that some peoploids are less than human and born as lesser animals. If you don't have a self-evident component of your identity that exists in the mental plane then you are a less than human automaton.

>>15764893
Racism is not permitted outside of /b/. Read the rules.

>>15753985
two words: wave function collapse

>>15770507
Cool, keep believing in magic.

>dry water
its called ice

>>15771024
vapor is dry until it condenses