muh free will

[Anonymous No.15678342]

>The universe is deterministic and everything in it can be predicted.
>but uh not us tho... no no no. see, we're the exception not the rule!
why are so'iintists in such denial about basic facts of life? facts that they themselves discovered. why are they still dancing with Gods dead corpse? romanticizing this prison existence?

[Anonymous No.15678353]

>>15678342
>The universe is deterministic and everything in it can be predicted.
Prove it, how many hydrogen atoms will be in our solar system in 43 quadrillion years? You should be able to predict this, no?

[Anonymous No.15678356]

>>15678353
we know this due to nature obeying the deterministic laws of physics. even quantum mechanics are predictable. everything part of one giant domino set. just because we can't see everything doesn't mean that therefore the rest of universe is somehow not deterministic. and at any case it definitely doesn't include us anyways.

[Anonymous No.15678372]

>>15678356
That's not what I asked.
What's the matter, anon, did your determinism machine break?

[Anonymous No.15678376]

>>15678372
I answered, not my fault you're predetermined to be a dumbass.

[Anonymous No.15678401]

>>15678376
Still not seeing any hydrogen numbers

[Anonymous No.15678404]

>>15678353
>>15678372
>>15678401
lol i love this

[Anonymous No.15678407]

>>15678404
of course, it was predetermined that you'd love this.

[Anonymous No.15678409]

>>15678407
And you were predetermined to love nigger dicks, no?

[Anonymous No.15678416]

>scientists, adult scientists, lawyers and judges repsected members of society unironically believe that we have free will in current year
holy fucking shit lmao

[Anonymous No.15678434]

>>15678342
>muh determinitard metaphysical dogma is true
>no, i can't test it
>no, i can't expain what bearing it has on "free will"
>no, i don't even have a coherent idea of what "free will" is supposed to be

[Anonymous No.15678436]

>>15678434
you can't prove muh free will either anyways. besides the fact that everything we know points to determinism chud.
free will is for children its a silly concept made up by ancient people.

[Anonymous No.15678438]

>>15678342
based

this delusion needs to stop

[Anonymous No.15678439]

>>15678436
>you can't prove muh free will
I didn't claim anything regarding it. Just noting that your incoherent spergouts are motivated by your subhumanity rather than anything remotely connected to science or love of truth.

[Anonymous No.15678447]

>>15678439
you keep saying that bud.

[Anonymous No.15678452]

>>15678447
I will. See >>15678434. You can't dispute a single point.

[Anonymous No.15678458]

>>15678452
keep saying that. im sure it'll get you somewhere.

[Anonymous No.15678460]

>>15678458
Keep whinging and crying about "free will". I'm sure this thread will go differently from the hundreds of other ones you started. Your eternal impotent rage against those who are more human than you is delicious.

[Anonymous No.15678465]

>>15678460
im not raging, im just laying out reality as we know it so far, (I never claimed this to be an absolute truth, nothing is). but you're clearly being emotional about this otherwise you would put some coherent idea behind your argument, instead you just put it out there like it means anything.
anyways i don't have time to waste on subhuman retards like you, keep believing that you're a big boy or something.

[Anonymous No.15678467]

>>15678465
>im not raging
Then why do you spend a sizable fraction of your life starting the same threads over and over, only to get BTFO every time?

[Anonymous No.15678476]

How can determinism be real if cause and effects are just things we perceive? Cause and effect was made up by natural philosophers to describe the universe, but they don’t define it. There wouldn’t be cause and effect if there wasn’t a human mind to make the connection in the first place.

[Anonymous No.15678480]

>>15678476
>There wouldn’t be cause and effect if there wasn’t a human mind to make the connection in the first place.
There wouldn't be cause and effect if there wasn't a human mind to make the DISconnection in the first place.

[Anonymous No.15678482]

>>15678476
determinism doesn't depend on causality. it just depends on there being only one possible timeline.

[Anonymous No.15678484]

>>15678480
The connection doesn’t exist without your mind. This isn’t hard to understand.

[Anonymous No.15678485]

>>15678476
of course it's plausible that there might be more going on than just what we perceive as cause and effect, as you put it. but so far there is nothing other than speculation.

[Anonymous No.15678486]

>>15678484
>The connection doesn’t exist without your mind.
The DISconnection doesn't exist without your mind. I like how this point is going over your head repeatedly.

[Anonymous No.15678494]

>>15678484
Your mind wouldn't exist without the connection

[Anonymous No.15678495]

>>15678482
The timeline begins with a “first cause” or “first mover”. Nothing would exist if there hadn’t been an original cause.

>>15678485
Then a deterministic understanding seems like it’s incomplete. We just can’t be sure.

[Anonymous No.15678496]

>>15678494
Low IQ post. Whatever exists, exists in the form that it does, whether or not you dissect and reframe it in terms of your simplified monke abstraction.

[Anonymous No.15678499]

>>15678494
No, minds a priori exist and you know that because you’re thinking right now. Everything else could be a hallucination and Descartes explained this a very long time before you started making low IQ posts.

[Anonymous No.15678500]

>>15678495
sure but the evidence of our physical world that we perceive heavily leans on the side of determinism. there are a lot of concepts that are incomplete but we use them because its all we can work with at the moment.

[Anonymous No.15678514]

>>15678500
The physical evidence from QM, which is also incomplete, doesn’t seem to prove anything one way or the other. We can probably argue in favour of determinism through a philosophical or religious model but being a “scientific determinist” is nuts.

[Anonymous No.15678519]

>>15678514
Ok so a particle is unpredictable but you're made of those particles, YOU are not those particles they own you, not the other way around.

[Anonymous No.15678528]

>>15678519
It doesn’t seem obvious that particles behave probabilistically and influence us into predetermined choices. More realistically within the microcosm-macrocosm we would either be deterministic beings composed of deterministic particles, or the opposite. If we see that particles are probabilistic (which, we do) then we are probabilistic. But, QM just isn’t there so we can’t really be sure.

[Barkun No.15678529]

The mind has a portion of free will but the body doesn't, only a meagre change can be made which is determined shortly before.

[Anonymous No.15678531]

>>15678528
we are those particles but "we" don't control those particles. if a photon splits into something else it's not because the complicated neural machinery that is you willed it. you got willed.
but yes, unless there is something more that's going on we can't be sure.

[Anonymous No.15678540]

>>15678531
“As above, so below.” It’s more rational to assume that if particles behave probabilistically, so do we. But we don’t, so it’s more likely that particles are not probabilistic and QM’s incompleteness hallucinates it.

[Anonymous No.15678555]

>>15678499
If there wasn't anything to form your mind there would be nothing that would do the hallucinating, Descartes never claimed this as a fact but as a hypothesis, dumbass

[Anonymous No.15678560]

>>15678555
Why does a mind require a body? You can’t prove that.

[Anonymous No.15678564]

>>15678540
>It’s more rational to assume that if particles behave probabilistically, so do we
No, it's not. It's not just wrong, but completely irrational considering this universe consists overwhelmingly from stuff that acts very predictably.

[Anonymous No.15678565]

WEF shills are working 24/7 denying free will. They will not succeed. Thanks to my free will I freely decide not to eat the bugs, not to live in the pod, and to own a lot.

[Anonymous No.15678569]

>>15678564
Yes, the universe does act predictably, so particles most likely act predictably and the science just isn’t there yet so we can’t prove it.

[Anonymous No.15678574]

>>15678564
>>15678569
determinism doesn't require predictability. deterministic systems csn easily be unpredictable. to perfectly predict the universe, we would probably need a system as large as the universe itself. anything smaller is going to fail at simulating what will happen.

[Anonymous No.15678575]

>>15678565
>i WILL eat the toxic industrial meatslop
>i WILL own a shitty apartment
>i WILL consoom product

[Anonymous No.15678579]

>>15678574
>determinism doesn't require predictability
I never said it does, brainlet. It's precisely because it doesn't require predictability that your belief system degenerates into unfalsifiable metaphysical dogma.

[Anonymous No.15678591]

>>15678579
um, no. there exist fractals which have been proven to be algorithmically uncomputable. so we have real examples of determinism being unpredictable. we know that the world is not consistently predictable, if you deny that you just look silly.

[Anonymous No.15678612]

>>15678342
>everything is deterministic
meanwhile bellow atom levels aka quantum mechanics
>the particle here is somewhere in this area, its charge is this for 20% chance, or this with 60% change or literally anything in between for 20% chance. if we will actually try to measure it we will permanently alter its value and yet we still wont be sure if its value is same after measuring

determinismus is dead in physics. at best you can make predictions based on statistics. we cannot even predict what weather will be like tommorow and retards believe you can measure state of whole fucking universe and then compute forecast of universe infinitely to the future while in reality you cannot even measure exact coordinates or charge of atom particles.

[Anonymous No.15678614]

>>15678591
It's like you literally cannot read.

[Anonymous No.15678903]

>>15678612
there is no evidence against determinism.

[Anonymous No.15678907]

>there is no evidence against my deity

[Anonymous No.15678972]

>>15678560
>>/x/

[Anonymous No.15679803]

>>15678903
please read my post again and then explain to me how you will determine exact charge or location of any one sub atom particle in order to accurately predict its movement for the rest of time in the universe.

and dont forget that by measuring that one particle you are forever altering its state which is quite significant change because it implies if you didnt measure it its long future could be drastically different.

[Anonymous No.15680036]

>>15678342
>>15678353
What is a free will?

[Anonymous No.15680042]

>52 replies
>15 IPs
just one samefag endless bumping it's vanity thread

[Anonymous No.15680061]

>>15678342
> Let's assume a thought experiment in which you were given the gift of perfect deduction
> Since you know what the best decision is in every situation (in accordance to your morals and goals), there is no reason to do anything that is not that decision (or in the set of best decisions if there are multiple)
> Therefore, you are predictable

Determinism isn't really a prison. And since nothing inside the system can observe it as a whole, there are no practical effects of it either.

[Barkun No.15680075]

>>15680042
>Checks for IPs
>Basement neckbeard detected

Do you know my IP?

[Anonymous No.15680100]

>>15679803
again, determinism doesn't require predictability to be true

[Barkun No.15680111]

>>15680100
The mind is predictable, dreams prophecize your future every night. The body is pre-determined, you can only do what the body can do, thus, there's no doing otherwise. Free will is choice, this, or that. With the body there is no choice but be the body, with the mind there is choice, you can choose a different path in using the body, but any change to the mind will be determined quickly through prediction. If you choose to go one path down the matrix and do not change, you are determined forever. If you suddenly change, soon it will be determined.

[Anonymous No.15680125]

>>15680061
>let's assume incoherent fantasy world
>therefore conclusion
Eh?

[Anonymous No.15680127]

>>15680100
so what's the difference between everything being determined and everything not being determined?

[Anonymous No.15680135]

>>15680127
Umm, sweaty, the difference is that in my hypothetical fantasy world where you're an omniscient God inspecting the universe from outside, you'd be able to predict things that are fundamentally impossible to predict if you're a real entity in the actual reality.

[Anonymous No.15680175]

>>15680125
Shows that free will is not only unnecessary but even undesirable (if, whatever it is, it collides with determinism). The more deterministic your decision making, the better it is at making correct conclusions and thus bringing you to your goals.

But I'm wasting my time typing this, because if you couldn't deduce this from the original post, chances are low that you will understand this one.

[Anonymous No.15680270]

>>15680075
Schyzo?

[Anonymous No.15680337]

>>15678342
Here are some possible mechanisms for how free will could exist scientifically:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8EkwRgG4OE

[Anonymous No.15680613]

>>15680127
determined = necessitarianism

not determined = possibilism