/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.15672335]

Daily reminder that Science was created by religious scientists to understand God and his creation.

[Anonymous No.15672343]

you don't really know if they didn't fake it because it wasn't possible otherwise.
also religions dabble in politics, makes sense to infiltrate science, so they have some leverage, some control, some heads up in certain situations, etc. they get chances to set narratives. very lucrative.

[Anonymous No.15672348]

>>15672335
Is that why the Catholic church was so bent on imprisoning Galileo?

[Anonymous No.15672354]

>>15672348
Galileo was himself a Catholic you absolute retard.

[Anonymous No.15672356]

>>15672354
could he have not been one? would he still manage to do what he did without denouncing religion? this needs to be addressed if you want to make that argument.

[Anonymous No.15672363]

>>15672356 me
>would he still manage to do what he did without denouncing religion?
I mean he wouldn't have been allowed to do shit if he denounced god/religion. and religion in turn can later say about anyone that "see, they believed in god", yeah, because they had no choice. especially if they wanted to do something with their lives.

[Anonymous No.15672365]

>>15672354
Does that have anything to do with his work at all though? Pretty sure that if science was created for religion, then the behavior of the church wouldn't have been to ban all heliocentrism, charge him with heresy and imprison him just because he put out observations they didn't like.

>inb4 catholics not christian
No true scotsman right?

[Anonymous No.15672367]

>>15672356
Why do you think he studied stars and celestial objects, Astronomy was always a subject of religious fascination for scientists and thinkers, where do you thinks names like Jupiter, Venus, Mars...comes from

[Anonymous No.15672382]

>>15672367
pretty sure a good bunch of them said what needed to be said so they do their shit.
explain how a heretic would have been allowed to do anything of value back then? name some of them. and explain how they'd also be in the position to maximize their needed resources by being one, in those times. give it your best shot

[Anonymous No.15672387]

>>15672382
You have retarded speculations that you made up
I have facts from historical events that testifies what I said

[Anonymous No.15672389]

>>15672387
>You have retarded speculations that you made up
this is not an argument. if you had any you would have started with your best one, to solve the matter.

[Anonymous No.15672390]

>>15672389
You want me to argue a schizo episode from some high schooler?

[Anonymous No.15672393]

>>15672390
you keep wasting the space you have to make an argument.

[Anonymous No.15672399]

>>15672393
Dumb fuck, is up to you to prove me that Galileo was actual a heretic, from my side all I have to do is a simple google search to prove you wrong.

[Anonymous No.15672406]

>>15672348
https://www.catholic.com/tract/the-galileo-controversy

[Anonymous No.15672409]

>>15672348
Only the jesuits were in favor of prosecuting Galileo, pope Barberini was a patron of Galileo's and was partially responsible for Galileo's successful career, but was ultimately less influential than the jesuits.
Galileo was never imprisoned, he was placed under house arrest and only because he refused to concede that there was the possibility that he was wrong, (which turned out to be that case when Newton showed that the solar system has no fixed center, subsequent revelations in the field discovered that heliocentrism and geocentrism are both just different coordinate system and neither are any more right or wrong than the other [see gif], contemporary astronomers do nearly all of their sky mapping in geocentric coordinate systems because their telescopes are here on earth rather than viewing the universe from the solar system's center of mass). If Galileo had been willing to teach both his own theories and the church's traditional teachings then he never would have been put on trial.
Atheists are constantly bringing up and mischaracterizing the Galileo episode in order to justify their amoral and unethical convictionless lifestyles, which is a par for the course with atheists, since they're all liars. Only Christians believe that lying is a sin that should never under any circumstance by committed, atheists are happy to lie, mislead, feign ignorance or engage in any other dishonest behavior when they feel it suits their immediate needs, just like children who are too young to have learned right from wrong

[Anonymous No.15672410]

>>15672335
Retard take

[Anonymous No.15672416]

>>15672399
google doesn't say the truth you fucking moron.
again, give me various examples of heretics which did something of historical importance, in heavy catholic society. else you're kidding yourself.
what the fuck are you doing on this board you weak faggot? why are you here?

[Anonymous No.15672419]

>>15672406
>paragraphs upon paragraphs dancing around the fact that he was almost charged with heresy had he not shut up and accepted house arrest for the rest of his life
The Galileo affair is important because it's basically the earliest instance of science's divergence from religion. For a milennia it was assumed that man was the greatest of God's creations, and the Earth is his most important of the celestial bodies and therefore it must be the center of the universe.

No, science was created as an antithesis to religion, it's no surprise the history of secularism tracks extremely closely with the development of science.

[Anonymous No.15672422]

we use electricity all the time but no one has observed it. It is literally magic to us.

[Anonymous No.15672423]

>>15672416
Then give me your proofs you subhuman atheist cuck, don't come at me with your shitty assumptions that you made up and expect me to prove them for you uneducated bitch.

[Anonymous No.15672436]

>>15672335
>Daily reminder

>>>/sci/rules/3

[Anonymous No.15672442]

>>15672423
>you subhuman atheist
>don't come at me with your shitty assumptions
I'm agnostic. could be, sure as shit isn't what any religion is saying.
you still made no point. you didn't argue by presenting examples of notable scientific discoveries made b y heretics in deeply catholic societies.
if you cannot make the case for why heretic scientists had the same access to resources as religious ones, in a heavy catholic society, then we cannot believe any great scientist that indeed they were religious. some of them might have been, some sure weren't.
what you are saying is "bro trust me they wouldn't have lied, they'd say the truth"
you are fucking midwit at best. you made NO fucking arguments, zero. nothing.

[Anonymous No.15672445]

>>15672442
Why do you want me to give you examples of shit you made up? Why are you expecting me to give you argument when you LITERALLY PROVIDE NOTHING TO SUPPORT YOUR CLAIMS.

[Anonymous No.15672452]

>>15672442
what you want me to teach you the basics of logic and how to debate!!!
Here is a template:
- Me: Science was created by religious/deist/people how believed in God
-You: I don't agree, I think they were heretics, and because of the church they pretended to be religious
- Me: What are your proofs
- You: Here are my proofs....

[Anonymous No.15672456]

>>15672452
it makes no sense for there to be no fucking notable heretic, in science, in those days in those places.
you then have the church which killed people oposing it, in huge fucking numbers for that matter.
you are not seriously asking people to believe a heretic in those times would have the same access to resources (or fucking life) like a (self-reported) religious person.
you are asking us to believe people would not lie with such things to get an advantage in any society they find themselves in.
do you think people can just go around north korea saying they don't believe in dear ruler? are you a fucking imbecile?

[Anonymous No.15672460]

>>15672456
Again all of that is PURE ASSUMPTIONS WITH NO PROOFS TO BACK IT UP.

[Anonymous No.15672470]

>>15672460
that people lie you dumdum? how old are you?

[Anonymous No.15672475]

>>15672470
And you, with your psychic powers, can see through space and time whether someone lied or not.

[Anonymous No.15672486]

>>15672475
clearly I cannot know what was in the dude's head. I'm not trying to say he specifically wasn't, tho it didn't matter much did it? he still got killed by them. which clearly says something anyway.
all I'm saying is that if we don't have notable heretics then we have two versions:
the church would literally kill anyone making discoveries without church's approval, which implies you'd need vetting before getting access and resources, and being allowed to continue your work. as in you need to officially declare yourself a christian and do some christian shit in view of peers so it's "official", then you can go do your shit, and it better not threat the power of the church anyway, even if you are a christian, publicly.
the other version is that literally god with god powers blocked any heretic from doing anything worthy.
we are on /sci/, which of the two do you think I think is most likely?

[Anonymous No.15672489]

>>15672486

[Anonymous No.15672497]

>>15672489
again google has no access to the akashic records for objective truth.
we can't ask the dude how it died, we can only believe those who had the power of writing it for history.

[Anonymous No.15672514]

>>15672486
>>15672486
Here is my version:
Religious people who believe in God tend to try to understand what God is and how he created them and everything around them, this "curiosity" begins with reading their holy books and then reading what the other religious people write (at the time, only monks could write), and slowly moving towards the writings of other religions, this happened in Europe when Christians began to study the books of Muslims, and by extension the books of the greeks... eventually they noticed that every religion refers to the sky as the place where God and the angels are, from there they started wondering what is heaven, what are these things bright lights that only appear at night, they began to study their movements and slowly discovered that they were planets and stars...and you can go from there.
What I'm saying is that religious curiosity is one if not the only reason people back then wondered what is nature, what is the sky, who are- us, how were we created, how do we function...

[Anonymous No.15672517]

>>15672423
you and this post is clear proof that religion still tries to police science for "atheists". what you are doing now was being done back then at a whole other level. and they back then felt just as justified you now feel.
religion always knew science will be the end of it, understood it has no chance of stopping it, and figure out the best it can do is try to control it, as much as possible, clearly not retarded, depending on times.
the fact that zealots like you continue to come here and vomit their fantasies continues to confirm that science doesn't really want you but you'll keep pestering it with your idiocies. just fuck off.

[Anonymous No.15672519]

the religion known as satanism ruined science
https://againstsatanism.com/Satanic-Secret-Agents-Aristotle-Contarini-Pomponazzi-and-Giorgi-Sarpi-Galileo-and-Kepler-Conti-Newton-and-Leibniz-The-Satanic-Corruption-of-Science-by-the-Satanic-Slave-Trading-Drug-Running-Bankster-run-Venetian-Empire.htm

[Anonymous No.15672531]

>>15672517
and you, poor atheist, you are all innocent.
You spend 99.99% of your time shitting on religious people, ridiculing them and claiming ownership of something they created, by themselves for themselves, you're just a bunch of parasites who have stolen something meant to understand the world, the universe and ultimately god, you bastardize it, you corrupt it and you use it to create horror in this world.

[Anonymous No.15672539]

>>15672531
>atheist
I already told you I am not an atheist. I understand what some of you believe is "god". all I'm saying is that it isn't. you try stitching whatever you find lucrative to that, and position yourself as an authority on it. everything that you defined god to be is actually totally politic. everything in your religion and book is specifically crafted for control and politics. that is the reason for you still existing.
I spend most of my time here to talk about science. but at times some of your idiocies irk me. you're the friends nobody wants but you keep popping up out of nowhere. just fuck off.

[Anonymous No.15672565]

>>15672514
You're completely projecting about what "religion" is and how it starts. Humans are hardwired to be religious and have religious experiences. They tend to have these experiences when thinking about very big concepts, like the beginning of the universe or the sheer vastness of it. That's why recently you have the "I HECKING LOVE SCIENCE" crowd, who are replacing "I LOVE GOD AND HIS WONDERS" with "I LOVE THE UNIVERSE AND ITS WONDERS!" We even have modern day versions of sin and hell, they're just articulated in secular terms; but it's all driven by the same internal mechanisms of guilt and a need for the redress of wrongs on a universal level.

Whether or not there is a creator of the universe, that creator can be detected or known, various events in religious lore occurred, or if heaven or hell are real is irrelevant to the above. The simple fact is that, in a completely non-religious environment, humans will invent religion to satisfy their need for one.

[Anonymous No.15672571]

>>15672565
>Humans are hardwired to be religious and have religious experiences.
yes but why tho
>>15672565
>humans will invent religion to satisfy their need for one.
yes but again why tho?
I'll try to also answer this question. because we preselected for it. knowing or unknowingly, we did, we hardwired that shit it in. religions like fucking killed, historically speaking. like a fucking lot bro. huge amount of killings, starting from WAAAAY back, and it still happens today. that amount of killing has an effect on who we are today from certain points of view. things don't have to be real to have certain effects.
that trait has been forcefully added in the gene pool, by humans. it's not "natural" in the sense that humans had nothing to do with it. it's about as natural as dogs are.

[Anonymous No.15672575]

science reinforced my belief in a yahweh more than anything else. i mean, it's all just so perfect and it all just works

[Anonymous No.15672582]

>>15672335
Daily reminder that Science is the Absolute contemplating itself.

[Anonymous No.15672594]

>>15672582

[Anonymous No.15672595]

>>15672571
>yes but why tho
It doesn't matter.
>yes but again why tho?
It literally doesn't matter and is irrelevant to my overall point that religiousness is part of Human universal cultural traits, and has been for 100,000 years+.

Also, if you think the key feature of religion is the inquisition, then you have no understanding of what religion actually is. Religion is a means for Humans to attempt to describe a moral narrative for their experience and environment, usually in the form of "and man grew proud/decadent and God/Nature send the ouchies". In this way, it's actually an instinctive method for how NOT to be killed by something like a volcano or by creating a society built around buttfucking each other all day every day. It is not forcefully added to the gene pool, it is in fact a key part of what makes humans human. Every single culture has some sort of religious aspect, included retarded atheist ones - who just worship more abstract concepts than "God", like "progress" or "truth".

[Anonymous No.15672603]

>>15672595
sure, if worshiping random shit started after we got conscious it started from the very beginning.
core function of worshiping was bringing people together. BACK THEN it had a very important role in forming more powerful groups, having a common purpose and such. side-effect of that is this form of payment, it gets set in your genes and later on it fucks you in the ass as it becomes a possible great filter.
the way it helped is not because "that god" which varied across time and places, really exists. it had side effects that prove to be helpful, in pre-industrial times.

[Anonymous No.15672613]

>>15672603
No, a core feature of worship is making sense of the world through a personal and moral lens. It seeks not just explanation, but meaning.
You think you are shedding "outdated ritualistic superstition", but there is no escape from those rituals. Consider the modern court system. It is full of ritual and procedure, not unlike any religious ritual, which seeks a vague abstract concept that cannot be derived by any reductionist or empirical method. The age old question, what is "justice"? How do you get "justice"? We seek this ideal through a trial, the presentation of evidence, and convoluted rules that dictate the outcome regardless of the actual truth. Police didn't read guilty as sin murderer his rights? "Not guilty by technical fault!" Ritual preformed incorrectly, "Justice" was displeased and refused to make its presence known. Our ancestors sacrificed cows and read the flight of birds to achieve similar ends. I wouldn't say they were more effective, but what we are doing now is not much different.

The point is that you are the same Human species that roamed the plains of Africa or Eurasia 100,000 years ago. You are not greater than them because you no longer fear the night demons or shit in the same river you drink from. You are the same, with the same instinctive drives - one of which is religion.

[Anonymous No.15672622]

>>15672613
>The point is that you are the same Human species that roamed the plains of Africa or Eurasia 100,000 years ago.
I am going to need to see some peer reviewed papers on that, which clearly shows we have not accentuated this trait by killing nonbelievers constantly.
also not sure what the fuck you are talking about some ancient bullshit justice system you have going on in burgerland. that shit is tainted, you run a business from locking up people, you are incentivized by money to develop your sense of justice. if you'd allow a comparison with your religion, it's like satan decides what justice means for you, not god.
justice changes when you get a better understanding of who we are, and why we do what we do. that is not to say you don't try to minimize the harm shitheads do, but you can get control over how many individuals do bad shit, again by getting a better understanding of who we are.
religious people keep trying to keep things "as they always were", that is not possible, we are changing either you like it or not

[Anonymous No.15672626]

daily reminder that this thread along with every other thread on /sci/ actually belongs on /pol/ or /b/

[Anonymous No.15672640]

>>15672626
did you report the thread or are you just going to moan and whine and act entitled and offended like a bitch?

[Anonymous No.15672643]

>>15672335
Nope, science was adopted by religion as a cope for all their perfect holy religious texts leaving out most verifiable information about reality.

[Anonymous No.15672648]

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanhl/article/PIIS2666-7568(22)00154-4/fulltext
the concept has serious implications. if getting old is considered a disease, once we have a cure for it, like say immortality, then refusing the cure would make it suicide.
will religions become suicide cults? or will they embrace immortality? most likely they'll start advising people should off themselves because god told them so.
this has serious implications, and if religion fucks with this and delays the process we risk getting wiped out by any random shit event, before getting backups and shit. because some primitive people FEEL it's the right thing to do for everyone.

[Anonymous No.15672747]

>>15672640
Yeah, i did, because it's a religion vs science thread.

I wish homework problems were allowed on /sci/ They are better than flat earth or vaxxshit because often end up learning something from a homework thread.

[Anonymous No.15672748]

>>15672335
Okay, and? Do you think I care about venerating scientists as if they're saints? It's an epistemic process.
>THE ELDERS BELIEVED X AND I'M UPSET THAT YOU DON'T
Uh hu, right.

[Anonymous No.15672992]

>>15672348
It's been centuries and this is the only line you people have