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/sci/ - Science & Math

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15602197 No.15602197 [Reply] [Original]

Math doesn't exist
Prove me wrong
The realm of the Platonic forms is bullshit
>B-b-buh that's philosophy!
Yes and it's the philosophical assumption of modern math and science
>B-but philosophy is irrelevant i'm empiricooooming
Relying only on empirical evidence is itself a philosophical position
>B-b-b-but you're just shoehorning philosophy into science because philosophy is irrelevant!
Science relies on empirical evidence to carry out its aims
Relying only on empirical evidence to claim that relying only on empirical evidence is the best or truest way to conduct science or anything else is itself an obvious philosophical claim and a circular one at that
Science and math is merely a tool, it's fine to claim that relying only on empirical evidence may be the best way to create useful things, but you cannot claim you know anything real by this method
Modern science has deluded itself into thinking its own useful scribblings are actually real, and as a result are starting to believe more and more insane things and destroying the very aims it seeks

>> No.15602239

If you oppose the idea of Platonic forms existing, I'd argue that you only oppose mathematical Platonism and not "math existing" as a whole.

For example, to argue against mathematical formalism, you'd have to argue against symbols/characters existing or something. Which you could do if you really wanted to. But at that point, how can you even read?

>> No.15602240

>>15602197
Yes, and?

>> No.15602242

I bet you're somehow still a moralfaggot

>> No.15602286
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15602286

>>15602197
Philosophy doesn't exist. Show me a philosophy. Show me an ethics. Show me a metaphysics. All I see is baseless subjective opinions.

>> No.15602291

>>15602286
show me an Higgs field

>> No.15602292

>>15602239
>For example, to argue against mathematical formalism, you'd have to argue against symbols/characters existing or something. Which you could do if you really wanted to. But at that point, how can you even read?
Thoughts and concepts don't exist in reality by definition, when you look at a pink ball for instance, and you think to yourself that ball is pink, the concept of pink doesn't actually exist apart from as a concept which is not real but just used to describe something.
Of course the ink on the paper is real, but the concepts that we attribute to them are not, that doesn't mean i can't read just that i know what i am reading is actually my own attribution of concepts to something which obviously doesn't contain them apart from in my own mind

>> No.15602297

>>15602291
I don't know what a higgs field is and neither do you.

>> No.15602298

>>15602292
>by definition
whose definition? lol
thoughts definitely exist, by definition

>> No.15602316

>>15602286
I actually completely agree with you, strictly philosophy does not exist separate from mental concepts, that makes sense, and neither does math or science
But modern science (mental concepts), relies on another mental concept called philosophy for its claims, but denies that it relies on either philosophy or mental concepts

>> No.15602323

>>15602316
Science relies on nothing but IQ. Of course someone like you who is lacking IQ is incapable of realizing this.

>> No.15602343

>>15602298
I should have clarified, they exist as thoughts just as a mirage exists or the idea of a square circle exists, but they don't exist in reality
I suppose you could argue about what is reality and what are concepts
But all I'm saying is clearly that math, as it is described, does not exist "out there"
I'm trying to think of a good example, it would be like reading someones autobiography, and then thinking because it accurately described that persons life, then that autobiography is that persons life

>> No.15602344

>incoherent about what he's attacking - math or science?
>constantly conflates Platonism and empiricism
>thinks he establishes the dominance of philosophy by demonstrating the incoherence of philosophy
I really enjoy seeing dumb frogposters tripping over their own legs.

>> No.15602346

>>15602323
Nonsensically throwing out the scientific method and replacing it with IQ, Ok lol

>> No.15602347

>>15602197
Do you know what else doesn't exist?

>> No.15602358

>>15602346
A genius doesn't need methodology. He knows intuitively how to make his arguments rigorous.

>> No.15602361

>>15602292
I think your definition of "exist" isn't standard nor useful.
I think what you're thinking of is "physical existance".

>> No.15602365

>>15602344
Those are nice claims, give an example of where i did any of that
>incoherent about what he's attacking - math or science?
Not attacking either, modern science is based on math
>constantly conflates Platonism and empiricism
?
>thinks he establishes the dominance of philosophy by demonstrating the incoherence of philosophy
Philosophy is dominant over science unless science is done pragmatically, which currently it's not, what part was incoherent? why no examples?

>> No.15602370

>>15602343
>but they don't exist in reality
to me they do, sorry.
they are quite literally electrical impulses in your head

>> No.15602371

>>15602365
Oh no, he suffers from amnesia and forgot his previous posts ...

>> No.15602377

>>15602358
So if a genius lived all his life in a padded insane asylum he would be churning out papers. is that the secret to your success mister genius?

>> No.15602379

>>15602371
adhom brap

>> No.15602381

>>15602377
That's more or less what Perelman and Mochizuki did, the greatest contemporary mathematicians.

>> No.15602383

>>15602365
>backpedaling
Lmao

>> No.15602384

>>15602197
>but you cannot claim you know anything real by this method
No one can claim they know anything real by any method, at all.

>> No.15602394
File: 27 KB, 775x387, 1690646883055.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15602394

>>15602384

>> No.15602414

OP says: You can't claim to know anything real by doing science

>>15602384 points out: Well if you want to go there, there's no way to really know anything.

>>15602394: You're so stupid for saying you can't know anything real, you should do science instead.

>> No.15602419

>>15602394
Philosophy is not reduced to relativism

>> No.15602421

>>15602414
You don't know that.

>> No.15602423

>>15602419
Nobody mentioned relativity. Time for your meds.

>> No.15602426

>>15602421
you're an iredeemable retard

>> No.15602430

>>15602423
Your stupid image does, which shows you have no clue of what you're saying bro.

>> No.15602431

>>15602426
You seem to be butthurt.

>> No.15602433

>>15602430
The image doesn't mention relativity either. You are hallucinating, schizo.

>> No.15602439

>>15602433
Yes it does broski, how about you start reading books instead of making a fool of yourself next time?

>> No.15602444

>>15602431
You can't imagine how I feel, just like you can't see the contradictions in your statements.
You're a subhuman and God willing your kind will be gone before this century is done

>> No.15602445

>>15602439
Which book covers the content of the meme image?

>> No.15602452

>>15602444
>You can't imagine how I feel, just like you can't see the contradictions in your statements.
Projecting
>You're a subhuman and God willing your kind will be gone before this century is done
I will live to see the next century. Living up to 98 years of age shouldn't be a problem with modern medical science.

>> No.15602455

>>15602433
they were talking about philosophical relitivism and not the concept of relativity in physics.

>> No.15602459

>>15602455
Literally the same thing.

>> No.15602467

>>15602292
>of course the ink on the paper is real
this is where you're wrong. The only way you can know the exterior world is through concepts, or platonic ideas.

>> No.15602469

>>15602467
Uhm, how about looking? Are you retarded? Like just open your eyes bro.

>> No.15602534

>>15602469
why would your interpretation of "the ink" would be more real than the one of "the words"? both are ideas.
you cannot prove the existence of anything outside of what your minds tells you, because the "real world" and "concepts" are exactly the same thing.
Read Kant, and come back. (well actually he was wrong about the thing in itself and about space, but read him anyway)

>> No.15602563

>>15602534
>read something wrong, he's wrong but you must read him
The absolute state of philosophy plebs, lmao

>> No.15602568

>>15602563
or don't, if you prefer to be a science pseud

>> No.15602570

>>15602534
I don't think you understood. The objective way to prove something exists is by looking at it. It's really that simple.

>> No.15602578

>>15602568
I've read Kant. At some point I got bored and put the book away. Kant is a useless pseud who produced nothing of value. Epistemology has been settled with Plato's analogy of the line. Anything beyond that is just midwitted footnotes.

>> No.15602586

>>15602286
Philosophy is basically just celebrity worship

>> No.15602597

>>15602570
yes, but your assumption that concepts are somehow less "real" than "seeing" it is false, because "seeing" an object is already conceptualizing it
>>15602578
>i didn't read him so he's a pseud

>> No.15602603

>>15602597
Name one useful thing Kant invented

>> No.15602608

>>15602597
>because "seeing" an object is already conceptualizing it
My dog can see things and my dog certainly can't think.

>> No.15602627

>>15602197
If Math didn't exist, you wouldn't be making this thread.

>> No.15602640

>>15602597
>i didn't read him so he's a pseud
I don't need to read every horoscope to know that astrology is pseudoscience.

>> No.15602649

i may reply to what i can later i'm busy now
>yes i'm actually OP

>> No.15602653

>>15602649
Nobody asked.

>> No.15602712

>>15602452
>Projecting
is not an argument, just like >>15602394 was a non sequitur and >>15602421 was simply wrong.
>I will live to see the next century
lol no you won't
God works in mysterious ways, niggerfaggot. Come and see

>> No.15602717

>>15602712
>non sequitur
That's not what that word means, stupid. You made no argument, you're just seething.

>God works in mysterious ways
God doesn't exist.

>> No.15603167

OP is such a fucking retard. I can't believe a thread died for this piece of trash of debate

>> No.15603339

>>15602717
>muh no you
>muh you seethe.
so far you have nothing. keep trying
and
>God works in mysterious ways, niggerfaggot. Come and see.
the mysterious ways are human agents, retard.
you're going to die. Horribly.

>> No.15603345

>>15602381
Basically all mathematicians are insane. Wroński for example.

>> No.15603350

>>15602603
Nietzsche

>> No.15603373

>>15603339
>the mysterious ways are human agents, retard.
So no sky fairy then?
>you're going to die. Horribly.
Is this a threat? Lmao, I'd beat your ass.