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/sci/ - Science & Math

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15592414 No.15592414 [Reply] [Original]

>Humans release thousands of megatons of greenhouse gasses
>global temperatures rise the fastest in tens of thousands of years

Just a coincidence right guys?

>> No.15592417

conceptualize the aroma

>> No.15592449

>>15592414
when you start protesting in China and near Chinese embassies then there is a little chance I might think I might believe in you somewhat

>> No.15592538

>>15592449
The USA have twice the per-capita CO2 emissions.

>> No.15592564

>>15592538
>per capita
into trash you go

>> No.15592602

>>15592414
>Another graph different from all the others
Yeah and state action is necessary, effective and legitimate right?

>> No.15593261
File: 366 KB, 768x640, Cumulative-CO2-treemap-768x640.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15593261

>>15592564
Higher cumulative emissions too

>> No.15593266

>>15592602
always weird how the only solution to the impending climate apocalypse just happens to align with their other political interests and power dreams huh

>> No.15593285

>>15593261
>1751 to 2017
so they just made up data and it has zero bearing on the present, lmao

>> No.15593310

>>15593285
Weird cope. So you think that China has more than doubled it's cumulative emissions in 6 years? Do you know what "cumulative" means?

>> No.15593362

>>15593310
your religion changes the definition of words whenever it pleases

>> No.15593369

>>15592538
>>15593261
complete bullshit, but nice try Chang

>> No.15593388

>>15593362
So you don't know what "cumulative" means. It means you add all the figures together to get the total. In this case we're looking at the total emissions over 266 years, since about the beginning of the industrial revolution. Notice how there's one country that has created more carbon emissions than any other country? You could say that they are have the most blame for causing global warming, since they have contributed the most ghgs. Which country is that?

>> No.15593389

>>15593266
Oh yeah, power hungry politicians are totally jizzing their pants at the idea of regulating emissions. Oh fuck carbon credits I’m gonna cum

>> No.15593391

>>15592449
Since when to Chinese respond to protests, we ought to threaten military action

>> No.15593393

>>15593369
Can you provide evidence to the contrary? Every source I can find shows that the US has both higher emissions per capita and higher cumulative emissions than China.

>> No.15593406

>>15592602
What’s wrong with the graph?

>> No.15593537

>>15592564
>>15593369
Why would the total emissions for a country matter? If China decided to balkanise and every province started calling itself a country, would that mean that the people there don't have to do anything?
The more each individual emits, the more they can reduce.

>> No.15593541

>>15592602
Are corporations going to stop destroying the planet without government intervention?

>> No.15593553

>>15593537
Not him, but aren’t a small number of individuals responsible for the vast majority of a country’s emissions?

>> No.15593565

>>15593553
Not really. You can calculate your own emissions and compare it to your country's average.

>> No.15593612

>>15593565
What about those in charge of energy policy? Fossil fuel lobbyists? They may not be emitting the carbon themselves but they are responsible for more than the average joe no?

>> No.15593652

>>15593612
Let's say you have two countries. Country A has a population of 100 million, country B has 50 million. Country A has an energy policy that leads to the emission of 10 tons per capita. Country B has emissions of 19 tons, as they're dicks.
Now, would you find it fair and sensible if country B would refuse to act, based on the fact that country A has higher overall emissions?

>> No.15593703

>>15593652
You’re answering a question I didn’t ask. I get what you’re saying, but it’s not fair and reasonable to refuse action based on any fact

>> No.15593732

>>15593612
You are correct. The idea of a carbon footprint was created to shift blame away from producers and legislators towards consumers who largely have no reasonable alternative.

>> No.15593737

>>15593261
Physics doesn't care about per capita and cumulative is water under the bridge. If you actually want people to take you seriously (apparently you do, since you need them to change their behavior), you'll have to start being intellectually honest first. Disgusting levels of hypocrisy and gaslighting aren't a good sell.

>> No.15593749

>>15593732
So which country's government should rather act? The one that forces its population to have high emissions by its energy and infrastructure policy or the government that doesn't do that, even though they're responsible for more people?

>> No.15593758

>>15593737
Per capita emissions are the only honest quantity. Do you want some fucking gulf state that burns oil for fun to just chill and keep burning oil for fun while you are expected to make sacrifices just because you live in a bigger country? Fuck no.

>> No.15593799

>>15592414
How exactly is this graph so granular all the way back to year 0? Are you telling me we have measurements from the roman era to support the little spikes in this graph or was it just pulled out of your ass?

>> No.15593825

>>15593758
There are two separate things there. If you accept that CO2 is driving a warming of the climate, you need to stop the greatest emitters. That's China by a mile right now. It's dishonest to deflect from this undeniable fact.

Things like historic and per capita emissions are political. These are issues that deal with things like the psychology of "fairness." I have absolutely ZERO interest in anything on this topic until I see the psychopaths in charge give up their private jets and mansions. Maybe then we can have a discussion on per capita. Until then, not interested. It's apparently ONLY the Western middle class and poor who should bear the burden of this. Kindly go fuck yourself.

>> No.15593840

>>15593758
>WAHH HWAHHH the people own all the factories
fucking shit yourself reddit-brain. The government of china owns ALL the fucking factories there.

>> No.15593854

>>15593749
Why are you framing it in a which government aspect? Ought not every government enact climate policy?

>> No.15593859

>>15593799
The neat thing about temperature is that due to its many impacts there are other ways of measuring it besides having a thermometer at that time period

>> No.15593867

>>15593840
China should reduce its emissions because they emit a lot.
The US should reduce its emissions because they emit a lot

>> No.15593879

>>15593749
Both should. What neither should do is pretend that they are innocent because they can pick a metric where they're slightly better than the other one. China's emissions are always brought up in a context of justifying inaction in the US, despite the prodigious emissions the US produces, both in total and per capita, and has produced previously. Other countries failing to act is not a valid reason not to act, it's a reason to act and have your politicians apply political pressure to affect change in other nations. That's literally half their job.

>> No.15593945

>>15593879
What do you think about Germany "acting" by pushing to much solar and wind, then shutting down their nuclear plants, so now they have to burn lignite (the dirtiest coal there is) to survive?
Do you think there are political/policy solutions to this when political leadership is this mild mindbogglingly counter-competent?

>> No.15593969
File: 212 KB, 1200x848, url(55).png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15593969

>>15593945
There doing pretty well. Within 20 years they went from virtually zero to 44-46% renewables.

>> No.15593971

>>15593879
> they can pick a metric where they're slightly better than the other one
nah, this is a global problem, so per-capita is meaningless - the only thing that matters is the absolute quantity added to the atmosphere in the same amount of time, and the only people pretending otherwise are Chinese propagandists or white guilt urbanites trying to blame everyone in the US for the emissions either released directly or caused by cities.

the total amount is not "picking a metric", but "muh per capita" absolutely is.

and it's completely ignorant of how much non-CO2 pollution China puts into the environment, which not even "per capita" cope (from a nation that very likely overestimates its population and is closer to 1.3 billion at most, not over 1.4 billion) can conceal

case in point: the water table in China doesn't care about how many pollution particles per resident are put in it - past a threshold that has long been crossed, it is as undrinkable for one person as it is for one billion.

>> No.15593974
File: 212 KB, 1200x848, url(56).png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15593974

>>15593969

>> No.15593980

>>15593974
now graph it with nuclear added to renewables (because it IS renewable, you can produce more nuclear fuel in a nuclear reactor than the reactor uses - you can also get power out of nuclear waste instead of burying it like a retard)

>> No.15593988

>>15593980
Renewable energy is already cheaper than nuclear now. No point in investing 10 billion Euros into a single new modern nuclear power when by the time it's ready in 10 years you can directly turn another 20% of your electricity production into renewables.

>> No.15593991

>>15593969
Who produced all those solar panels, wind turbines and concrete bases on which they were built? How much CO2 was emitted for that?
Convince me that the reduction in German CO2 emissions aren't just an outsourcing to China.

>> No.15594034

>>15592414
All hockey stick graphs are bullshit.

>> No.15594036

>>15594034
Why?

>> No.15594058

Damn. Well I guess the solution is to pursue a policy of asymmetrical deindustrialization and hope china and India are nice to us. Now it’s whiteys turn right?

>> No.15594081

>>15594058
Bingo, carbon credits are actually de-industrialization. I didn’t know /sci/ had such a deep understanding of carbon emission reduction strategies.

>> No.15594089

https://youtu.be/mn39VOml7fw

>> No.15594115

>>15594089
>hmm yes random youtuber smarter than entire scientist population of the world.

I trust him, not because I think he can do research but because he tells me things that I already agree with.

>> No.15594144

>>15593945
>What do you think about Germany "acting" by pushing to much solar and wind, then shutting down their nuclear plants, so now they have to burn lignite (the dirtiest coal there is) to survive?
How much nuclear power did they turn off and since when did they know they were gonna do it? They had more than 10 years to prepare and did nothing.
Also, you're complaining about the actions (or lack thereof) by the conservatives party, yet I'm sure that you think muh greens are to blame.
Also, keep the /pol/itical stuff in its own board.

>> No.15594164

>>15594144
What does this have to do with /pol/? Are you saying that this topic doesn't have a political side to it?
Why are you just deflecting and attacking here? Is it because you're actually idiolectally invested in this and you're getting angry that everyone isn't just uncritically accepting your positions?

>> No.15594167

>>15594081
It’s strange that there are literally no downsides to your “strategies.” One wonders why they weren’t adopted already. I guess we needed you to show us the light.

>> No.15594170

>>15594081
it doesn't have to be deindustrialization, they just have to find a way to make it cleaner

>> No.15594178

>>15594170
At the cost of productivity, which is in effect deindustrialization

>> No.15594180

>>15594178
anon the bugman is willing to prod steel for 0.3x what an american is willing to do, i dont think some extra emissions law is the reason why factories left

>> No.15594186

>>15594180
Maybe not the original cause but sure to exacerbate it

>> No.15594190

>>15594186
yeah destroying the planet is worth some marginal reshoring

>> No.15594191

>>15594180
>because X was already happening for other reasons, and absolutely extreme amount of X is fine
Why do people keep engaging in such basic errors in their thinking?

>> No.15594193

>>15594190
China is building coal plants at record rates. What's happening is that the West is being deindustrialized and production is becoming even more polluting via outsourcing. This will solve exactly nothing. Quite the opposite.

>> No.15594194

>>15594167
When the fuck did I say there’d be no downsides. In case you can’t think far into the future, small short term downsides that happen now are better than big long term downsides that happen later.

>Shit is that a “road closed in 3 miles” sign? Should I follow the detour? But that means I’d get there slower, I think I’ll just keep going.

>> No.15594201

>>15594193
china is building everything at record rates because 1.6 billion people are rapidly industrializing. They're also building out a shitload of renewables too. In the short term China will cause more emissions but renewables are already better than lignite and "clean" coal plants, they're on par with nat gas, now they just have to beat coal.

>> No.15594212

>>15592449
>>15593840
>>15593945
>>15593991
>>15594178
>>15594193
>>15593825

>The Earth is not getting warmer, it’s getting colder!
>Ok fine it’s not getting colder, but it’s not getting warmer.
>Well ok the earth is getting warmer but it’s not our fault!
>Fine the earth is getting warmer and it’s our fault but we can’t do anything about it!

You are here /\

>> No.15594219

>>15594212
>cant do anything about it
Sure we can, we can kill everyone! The ends will justify the means. We MUST do whatever it takes to SAVE THE PLANET

>> No.15594222
File: 137 KB, 1917x587, gw.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15594222

>>15592414

this is the same graph when you don't exaggerate the y-axis.

>> No.15594223

>>15594201
If renewables are better than lignite, why is Germany increasing their lignite mining and burning?

>> No.15594229

>>15594223
because renewables cant function as a baseload

>> No.15594232

>>15594229
So they're not better after all?

>> No.15594243

>66 replies
>20 IPs

>> No.15594245

>>15594232
lots of gas turbine/coal plants are supplementary power, those are what renewables are replacing. Maybe in the future when batteries become cheaper they can reliably be used for baseload

>> No.15594249 [DELETED] 

>>15594219
Nigger I don’t give a fuck about the planet, the economy will go to shit if climate change isn’t dealt with. The planet will be fine, but international instability brought by niggers fleeing their drought-ridden shitholes (while democrats let them in the country), changes in crop prices, and more frequent storms will fuck us so hard the Great Depression will look like paradise.

>> No.15594263

>>15594249

blocking nigger with a wall will cost about 1% what it would cost to reverse all climate change

>> No.15594271

>>15594249

liberals' claim we need to spend $50 trillion to completely reverse climate change so that some niggers won't swim to our shores is pure gaslighting

>> No.15594298

>>15594263
>>15594271
the US makes very little we just push around digital spreadsheets on banking software and then purchase goods made from the 5 billion slaves that work for practically nothing. Why would we want to go back to making everything

>> No.15594321

>>15594263
Good luck doing that with empathy-ridden democrats letting them in by the millions

>> No.15594337

>>15594201
>They're also building out a shitload of renewables too
>beliving in statistics provided by totalitarian asian country where "face" is more important than anything else

>> No.15594340

>>15593537
You should compare a country's emissions against its contributions to mankind, not against its population number.

>> No.15594346
File: 6 KB, 250x246, 1642493253820s.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15594346

CORRELATION DOES NOT EQUAL CAUSUATION

>> No.15594347

>>15594321

As if increasing population doesn't cause increasing co2 emission
ya, they are trying to scare you into give them $50 trillion to play with.

>> No.15594367

>>15594243
since this post was made there have been 10 most post added to this thread, but only 3 more IPs

>> No.15594382

>>15593971
>Imagine being this retarded

>> No.15594433

ALGORTIHM TO SOLVE THE CLIMATE CRISIS FOR GOOD
1. make CO2 emissions a cases belli offense
2. declare war on china and india and glass both of them.
3. problem solved.

>> No.15594443

https://www.infowars.com/posts/globalists-turn-up-the-heat-un-chief-claims-era-of-global-warming-has-ended-era-of-global-boiling-has-arrived/

>> No.15594447

>>15594346
but we have isolated and tested in a lab the mechanism with which CO2 causes warming.

>> No.15594450
File: 65 KB, 1200x675, Al Gore owns this planet.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15594450

>>15594433
>Al Gore

>> No.15594464

>>15594443
>infowars
You should leave

>> No.15594520

>>15594433
India doesn't emit as much carbon dioxide as the US

>> No.15594534

>>15592414
Oh no, one degree! You are a susceptible level 7, for sure.

>> No.15596796

>>15594520
they are quickly rising and are an environmental problem on all accounts not just CO2.
killing indians might be the most eco-friendly thing next to selling your car and walking everywhere.

>> No.15596804

>>15592414
>Humans release thousands of megatons of greenhouse gasses
>Humans
Nope, big corporations. Personally, I will never reach a megaton.

>> No.15596815

>>15596804
>Personally, I will never reach a megaton.
No one claimed you would. We're 8 billion people emotion 35 billion tons per year. I'm sure you're above the average.

>> No.15596900

>>15594222
>end still higher than ever before
cool

>> No.15596923

>>15592414
Why do these graphs always show tiny time periods instead of millions of years? Or at least hundreds of thousands of years.

>> No.15596943

>>15596900
Climate was hotter hundreds of thousand of years ago. Wasn't a problem then

>> No.15596951

>>15596943
>Wasn't a problem
Except for those mass extinction events

>> No.15596981
File: 512 KB, 1080x1020, 1518201105656.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15596981

>>15594464
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2023/jul/27/scientists-july-world-hottest-month-record-climate-temperatures

WE'RE OFICCIALY BOILING , GIVE ME YOUR MONEY, PAY ME MORE TAXES, GIVE ME YOUR RIGHTS

>> No.15597033

>>15596981

You just keep revealing it's all about politics for you, not what is real. You are poor and scared about money.

>> No.15597178

>>15597033
Which is the most restarted take. Green parties are normally pretty left wing and want to take money from the rich, give part to the poor and invest part in renewables.

>> No.15597435

>>15596951
Which?

>> No.15597442

>>15593758
please explain how humans will be negatively impacted by climate change. I do not believe there is a problem.

>> No.15597500

>>15596796
That's an impressive amount of mental gymnastics you did to avoid admitting to the fact that you are more of a problem than any random Indian.

>> No.15597501

>>15597500
kys pajeet you're banned from your own beaches because you're a menace to white tourists

>> No.15597881

>>15597501
You have poor coping strategies for your cognitive dissonance.