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/sci/ - Science & Math

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15463562 No.15463562 [Reply] [Original]

At the foundational level the universe is completely random and chaotic, not even time and space can be said to exist. A window into this world is quantum phenomena - such as entanglement - where effects occur which flout relativity. Religious types eagerly latched on to such phenomena to prove the existence of some divine plane above our scientific understanding, but science has shown that he quantum world has no hidden variables or laws governing it, this is really how the universe is.

https://tasmaniantimes.com/2015/08/order-emerges-out-of-chaos-the-fundamental-d1/

>> No.15463568

>>15463562
>At the foundational level the universe is completely random and chaotic, not even time and space can be said to exist.
doesn't follow.

>but science has shown that he quantum world has no hidden variables or laws governing it
that is false. what has actually happened is that according to certain unverified assumptions made by certain physicists, one is lead to the conclusion of randomness. actual observations have not indicated anything of the sort.

>> No.15463626

>>15463568
Time and space emerged from the chaos. Anything which seems to conform to predictable outcomes must be a structure built on chaos, according to the logic of the article, as it is built up from probabilities.

>> No.15463633

>>15463626
>Time and space emerged from the chaos
unverified narrative.

>Anything which seems to conform to predictable outcomes must be a structure built on chaos
i feel that here it's important to emphasise that spacetime doesn't have to be predictable in order to be legitimate/real.

>as it is built up from probabilities
the idea that the universe is 'made of probabilities' is, like the first sentence, an unverified narrative.

>> No.15463639

>>15463633
>i feel that here it's important to emphasise that spacetime doesn't have to be predictable in order to be legitimate/real.

Nobody said it wasn't legitimate/real.

>> No.15463647

>>15463639
>not even time and space can be said to exist.
you/the article clearly did.

>> No.15463738

>>15463647
>>not even time and space can be said to exist.
>you/the article clearly did.

The article says it doesn't exist at the level of the quantum foam, but at our scale it is very real. We couldn't exist without it. Time and space emerge from the foam.

>> No.15463758

>>15463738
"quantum foam" is a fictional substance that has not been demonstrated to exist.

>> No.15463791

>>15463758
But there's evidence it does exist:

https://bigthink.com/hard-science/nothing-exist-quantum-foam/

>> No.15463801

>>15463791
there is no evidence that stuff comes into existence from nothing.

>> No.15463820

>>15463801
Causality only emerges from the quantum foam at larger scales. 'Stuff' does not 'come from' or 'go to' anywhere 'in' the foam.

>> No.15463831

>>15463820
Where did this foam come from?

>> No.15463833
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15463833

>>15463791
>Bigthink

>> No.15463836

>>15463833
Keep thinkan

>> No.15463839

Seepan

>> No.15463847

>>15463831
The foam is not a 'thing', it's random chaos. Time, space, things, causality, order, do not exist.