What is a space-time?

[Matt Walsh No.15460890]

Space is physical, we can "see" it. Time is not physical like space but we can measure it. Combining these two different things to form a mathematical manifold just to preserve casualty is nonsense. Spacetime sounds like a schizo legumeboy thing hacked together.

[Anonymous No.15461020]

>>15460890
>Space is physical, we can "see" it
No, you see matter, space is vacuum aka the lack of matter (note that a perfect vacuum doesn't theoretically exist), space itself is, quite literally, nothing, it isn't made of anything nor has any measurable qualities
>Time is not physical like space but we can measure it.
No you can't, you measure some action and assign it a numerical value which you call time, aka your definition of time is in relation to something else but not time itself, time does not exist and is a perceptory illusion caused by movement, if you wish to prove that time exists you would have to prove that reality is discrete instead of continuous and you'd have to measure this interval, which doesn't exist
>Spacetime sounds like a schizo legumeboy thing hacked together
It's just a coordinate system, 3 coordinates of space and 1 coordinate of time

[Anonymous No.15461476]

>>15461020
>space is vacuum aka the lack of matter
space != Vacuum
They are two entirely separate things.
>time does not exist and is a perceptory illusion
no, it exists and you can define it using the 2nd law of thermodynamics.

[Anonymous No.15461528]

>>15460890
Earth is flat and stationary with a dome. Space-time is a complete meme. Gravity doesn't exist.

[Anonymous No.15461538]

>>15461528
how was a flat earth created

[Barkun: Demi-GodofSCI !hax6YPhEF6 No.15461542]

>>15461020
Derp. This poster is retarded.

>Believes in vacuum
>Believes in 'nothing'

[Anonymous No.15461543]

>>15461528
>flattard
kys

[Barkun: Demi-GodofSCI !hax6YPhEF6 No.15461548]

Spacetime is a thing because space (massive phenomenon) encompasses us all, so we inherit an experience of its time event.

>All of time isn't spacetime.
>There is planettime.
>There is personal time.

[Anonymous No.15461553]

>>15460890
Spacetime is simply the effect X has to go through while traversing from point A to point B.
It's not some magical thing, it's just that some areas in the path will have different "execution speed" which will affect the time perceived by X.

More matter clumped together = Slower execution
Faster movement speed = Slower execution

What we call "time" is the result of many different particles working at many different speeds.
I don't think it can be put in simpler terms.

[Anonymous No.15461633]

>>15461476
>They are two entirely separate things.
Wrong, a perfect vacuum is the lact of all matter, aka space, but nothing itself can't exist in a pure form, it always has to be occupied by something
>no, it exists and you can define it using the 2nd law of thermodynamics.
Wrong, thermodynamics has absolutely nothing to do with time, again, you're applying the definition of time to something that isn't time

[Anonymous No.15461725]

>>15461633
Vacuum != space.
Vacuum is inside space, like matter is inside space.
Thermodynamics, more specifically the second law is a direct consequence of existence of time. Without time, heat wouldn't flow.

[Anonymous No.15461738]

>>15461725
>Vacuum is inside space, like matter is inside space
Now take away everything and you're left with nothing, which is space
>Without time, heat wouldn't flow.
Wrong, without flow you would not have the illusion of time, if you want to prove time exists you would need evidence that events happen discretely, not continuously, not only that you would have to prove that the past and future exist and everything doesn't happen in a singular moment, not only that you would have to directly measure this discrete interval in which things happen, but all of these things are impossible and would cause causality violations across the universe and by nature massive compounding errors in all measuremements, none of which so far have yet to be detected

[Anonymous No.15461779]

>>15461738
meds

[Anonymous No.15461782]

>>15461779
You know it's less shameful to admit that you are wrong rather than sperg out like a retard

[Anonymous No.15461869]

>>15461782
I was lazy to respond to your wall of nonsense.
Where do you think vacuum exists? Take away everything you're left with vacuum. That exists in space. Space exists everywhere in me and you, inside planet, in empty areas between stars.
Your other thing on time is retarded. Looks like you don't know what entropy is

[Anonymous No.15461966]

>>15461476
>Time exists because entropy
Maxwells demon much?

[Anonymous No.15462135]

>>15461966
NTA but I'm pretty sure Maxwell's demon is a gravitino.

[Anonymous No.15462165]

>>15461738
>without flow you would not have the illusion of time
How do you flow without time? How does anything change or move without time allowing it to happen?

[Anonymous No.15462168]

>>15461869
>no argument
Sad, come back when you've read a couple textbooks

[Anonymous No.15462176]

>>15461966
So sick of this time is because of entropy mem. Entropy exists because time allows things to change. Energy tends to spread out in every direction, leading to entropy increase, but none of that can happen without time. Time precedes entropy, not the other way around.

[Anonymous No.15462187]

>>15462165
NTA
>How do you flow without time
Particles interact, entropy increases. We observe nth-order effects of these interactions and describe them as the passage of time.

[Barkun: Demi-GodofSCI !hax6YPhEF6 No.15462200]

LISTEN


....meeeeeeeep

PWNKED

[Anonymous No.15462215]

>>15462187
>Particles interact
Without time existing first, the particles could not do this.

[Anonymous No.15462236]

>>15462215
How much math have you studied?

[Anonymous No.15462243]

>>15462236
Up to differential equations. What does that matter?

[Anonymous No.15462278]

>>15462243
>Up to differential equations.
So if you're American then that's three semesters of calculus and one semester of linear algebra to get there, right? At least it was back when I was in school.
>What does that matter?
Because explaining would be a lot easier if you'd studied real analysis, but I'll try. You remember using Taylor polynomials to approximate a function in Calc II, right? Remember how the precision of the approximation increases as the degree of the polynomial increases? Looking at a single quantum state with no interactions is like looking at the zeroth-degree Taylor polynomial of reality itself. Every interaction increases the degree by one. Time is the entire Taylor series.

[Anonymous No.15462291]

>>15462278
I can see how you can have a static interaction without time passing, but to have any interaction where there is a change (state 1 becoming state 2), you need some way to allow that change. If there were no space, there would be no point B to go to. If there is no time you can't get to state 2. I don't think this is a math problem as much as it is a matter of perspective.

[Anonymous No.15462315]

>>15462215
Define time without relying on matter interactions, I'll wait

[Anonymous No.15462318]

>>15462291
>but to have any interaction where there is a change (state 1 becoming state 2), you need some way to allow that change
There is always one state, matter is simply shifting in position
>If there were no space, there would be no point B to go to
You are confusing "nonexisting" with "made of nothing", space exists, but it isn't made of anything, it can't be isolated, it can't be measured or interacted with in any way

[Anonymous No.15462320]

>>15462291
I agree that it's a matter of perspective, but studying higher math is the most effective training regimen I know of for boosting your perspective-taking power level.

Might help to think of it this way. You're thinking of "time" as being the whole thing, and you consider a span of five minutes to be a tiny slice of that whole thing. The "time comes from entropy" view starts with the tiniest possible slice of time, and adds a lot of them together to make a five minute interval.

[Anonymous No.15462322]

>>15460890
a mathematical model

[Anonymous No.15462327]

>>15462320
>The "time comes from entropy" view starts with the tiniest possible slice of time
>time is the tiniest possible slice of time

[Anonymous No.15462338]

>>15462327
>things get confusing when you dumb it down for people who can't be bothered to learn the math
You don't say.

[Anonymous No.15462349]

>>15462315
Define change without time. I'll...um...

[Anonymous No.15462353]

>>15462320
>You're thinking of "time" as being the whole thing
I'm thinking of time being the only thing that allows any change at all. Like moving through space. Space has to be there to allow movement. Same with time.

[Anonymous No.15462367]

>>15462349
First you need to prove that change needs a magical force called time in the first place, I'll wait
>>15462353
> X has to exist because I said so!!
>nevermind that there isn't any evidence for it's existence!

[Anonymous No.15462375]

>>15462168
I'll take that as a yes

[Anonymous No.15462378]

Time is the measure of changes in space and matter

[Jealous No.15462381]

>schizo legumeboy thing
Unlike spacetime, this sounds legit.

[Anonymous No.15462387]

>>15462378
But there is no amount of time between changes

[Anonymous No.15463530]

>>15462367
How do you determine what changed without defining time?

[Anonymous No.15463538]

>>15463530
Change is an inherent property, time is a psychological illusion to temporally connect events and is a consequence of higher cognitive functions, the universe does not know what time is, the Earth isn't 4 billion years old, it just is, you are the one assigning an arbitrary metric to it

[Anonymous No.15463589]

>>15462367
change doesn't need time, rather change defines time.

[Anonymous No.15463614]

>>15463538
>Change is an inherent property
don't say "inherent" if you cannot explain things.

[Anonymous No.15463634]

>>15463589
>change defines time
So you admit that time isn't a property of the universe and is an abstract measurement derived from subjective observations? Thanks for conceding.
>>15463614
Lol, you've yet to provide a single definition for time without relying on things that aren't time, you should stop posting

[Anonymous No.15463664]

>>15463634
Unlike space, we cannot see time. Time is defined by the run of physical processes.
>time is a psychological illusion to temporally connect events
Circular reasoning. say that without using "temporal"

[Anonymous No.15463715]

>>15463664
You cannot see space, you see matter, space is infinite and without substance
>Circular reasoning. say that without using "temporal"
Fine, time is a psychological illusion to causally connect events

[Anonymous No.15463763]

>>15463715
See as in we know where objects are and where is empty. Are you really THAT dense?
>causally
Circular reasoning. Say that using "causal".

[Anonymous No.15463798]

>>15463763
>See as in we know where objects are and where is empty
Not only is that not seeing there is no such place as "empty", you are applying adjectives to things that don't exist, space is unquantifiable, all your observations and measurements are relative to matter and its interactions
>Circular reasoning
You keep using those words but they don't mean what you think they mean and looking at your shitty grammar I reckon you don't know what causality is either, 0/10 go back to school

[Barkun: Demi-GodofSCI !hax6YPhEF6 No.15463813]

The life state or universe is a presence. The sun is a presence. The stars are a presence.

Space is not a presence.

[Anonymous No.15463814]

>>15463798
Empty as in the empty place like empty place in your room where there's nothing. That's space. Everything exists in space.
Casual implies existence of time in itself. Cause and effect exist in time. Don't use circular reasoning.

[Anonymous No.15465734]

>>15460890
Space is time, time is space.

Space-time.

[Anonymous No.15465737]

>>15461543
>NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO IM NOT SCHIZOPHRENIC THE GOVURMUNT IS FRAMING ME NOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Anonymous No.15465752]

>>15465734
How? Space != Time by any logic.

[Anonymous No.15465826]

>>15460890
>Time is not physical
ngmi

[Anonymous No.15466344]

>>15463664
Physical processes run at different speeds in different circumstances. They run at different speed depending on what point of fucking view you choose and at what speed your point of view and the process move related to each other and speed of light.

Your Time is fucking wishy washy whore that is allowing everyone to fuck it in the ass.

[Anonymous No.15466498]

>>15466344
>speeds
that already includes time in itself. Can you define time without using time itself?
>speed of light
>Einstein's copium of Michelson–Morley experiment

[Anonymous No.15466505]

>>15462387
Literally didn't understood your argument.

The measurement is done between different changes in space and matter

[Anonymous No.15466520]

>>15466505
>different changes in space and matter
A body at rest wrt your frame of reference doesn't change space and matter (obviously non radiating body). Does that mean time doesn't exist for that object?

[Anonymous No.15466613]

>>15460890
The version of spacetime in special relativity is just a fancy way of saying the Lorentz equations apply to comparing reference frames, and these are the simplest way to accommodate a universe with a maximum possible speed
The dynamical spacetime of GR should have been abandoned long ago for being incompatible with quantum mechanics