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/sci/ - Science & Math

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File: 114 KB, 1122x1280, benzene-ring-155277_1280.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15387134 No.15387134 [Reply] [Original]

>In benzene, the true bonding between carbon atoms is neither a single nor a double bond. Rather, all of the bonds are a hybrid of a single and double bond
What did they mean by this

>> No.15387147

>>15387134
Electrons spinny in the pz orbitals and creates a whirlpool that makes the ring tighter.

>> No.15387155

>>15387134
>if you pour 5 glasses of water into a container you get 1 large container of water
Vs
>you still have 5 discrete glasses of water
Same thing

>> No.15387239

>>15387147
>>15387155
Why doesn't each carbon just uniformly single bond to 2 other carbons and a hydrogen with the electrons in the sp2 orbitals, leaving one electron from each carbon in the p orbital to spinny around

>> No.15387273
File: 100 KB, 850x633, R.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15387273

>>15387134
learn MO theory

>> No.15387276

>>15387239
Because uh rings man, crop circles an sheit way of the world. Can't fight it man.

>> No.15387501
File: 960 KB, 500x214, why_not_both.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15387501

>>15387134

>fails to think in nonduality

:D

>> No.15388327
File: 40 KB, 750x400, Delocalization_2[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15388327

A "hybrid bond" is like a mathematical average of two or more component bonds. The pi electrons are equally distributed around the pi orbitals. They aren't stuck in only 3 of the 6 bonds.

>>15387501
stop posting

>> No.15388705

What's good DFT simulation program that supports GPUs?

>> No.15388714

>>15388327
How do the orbitals turn into 2 ends of a cylinder? What exactly is that picture actually showing?

>> No.15390016

>>15388327
That clears it up a bit, thanks
>>15388714
To my understanding, the electrons in the p orbitals are delocalized, therefore the p orbitals are functionally identical to two ring shaped orbitals above and below the carbon ring. Whether or not the p orbitals actually form that ring or if its just a visual representation of the delocalization, I'm not sure.

>> No.15390031

>>15387134
It means they are planar delocalized and more locked into a 2d plane. Planar sp hybrids are the basis of all life, like peptide bonds & protein sheets.
>>15387501
If we take a picture of the atomic cores we can see the atoms pulled tighter in the double bonds, since we now know the local area of where the electrons are positioned. If we take a long exposure shot the whole structure becomes a mesh of single and double bonds.

>> No.15390054

the heat of the ring cooks the bonds

>> No.15390210

>>15388327
stop replying to bots. recursive hiding hides anyone stupid enough to reply to hidden botposts and I didn't see your post at first

>> No.15390507

>>15387273
how? sources please. the MO treatment in gen chem textbooks and ochem prefaces don't make sense to me, maybe i'm just retarded.

>> No.15390522

>>15387134
Organic chemistry is just a mediocre approximation for quantum mechanics. In quantum mechanics the entire molecule is in a single coherent state

>> No.15390585

>>15387273
Nigga you learn that at the end of your undergrad, this dudes in like ochem.
For op, think of each atom having a single hybridized orbital. Now add a big clusterfuck orbital on top of everything. A dashed line across the entire benzene molecule is a better representation of it than double bonds.

>> No.15390589

>>15390507
tried Anslyn's physical organic? that one seemed pretty clear, although for any deeper explanation you'd have to look into computational chemistry and get something like Avogadro (i think) running

>> No.15390607

>>15390585
hybridization is a lie. It's a convenient lie that works for asymmetric non-aromatic molecules (the MO interpretation of carbonyls, for example, is 1:1 with the stick figures you learned in ochem), which is 99% of what you'll be dealing with in the lab, but the true nature of benzene cannot be adequately explained with intro level terms

>> No.15390638

1 and a half bonds

>> No.15390714

>>15390210
>he filters 4chan
have fun only talking to marketing shills idiot

>> No.15391378

>>15390607
I'm honestly not surprised. I only have a BS, but the higher courses were filled with that "you can't handle the truth and this is why we lied about it" stuff. I still have no idea how I got through pchem 2, but it at least gave me enough of an idea with how deep the well runs with this shit.

>> No.15391581

>>15390031
Can you draw the diagram of the picture?

>> No.15392056

>>15388705
Orca might. It's open source, I think Frank Neese is the guy running the group that made it

>> No.15392065

>>15388714
The orange rings above and below the plane of the benzene show the electron density in the pi orbitals as they are present in the molecule. The alternating single and double bond drawing is just electron bookkeeping.

>> No.15392073

>>15390522
That's a pseud take. In synthetic organic chemistry, it's unnecessary to invoke quantum mechanics for problems that can be answered with simple arrow pushing.

>> No.15392148

>>15387239
they kinda do, the electrons delocalize into a cloud of electrons that go all over the place

>> No.15393569

>>15387134
>6 hoes are shared between 6 couples (=bonds)
>on average every couple is banging 1 whore while they rotate between the couples
>when switching, there are moments where the couple bangs 2 whores

>> No.15393893

>>15390585
The double bonds work when you draw reaction mechanisms. You should view both valence bond and MO theory as models and not a fully accurate description.