/bio/logy general

[Anonymous No.15317239]

Veterinary/Zoology edition.

The field of biology is widely misrepresented and misunderstood on /sci/ and in general, even among other STEM researchers.
We aim to correct that with productive discussion on the topic.
Previous thread: >>15304033

[Anonymous No.15317241]

>>15317239
https://www.viagenpets.com/veterinarian/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19228899/

[Anonymous No.15317255]

>>15317239
that general is still on page 1 of the board, the new general isn't started until the old one reaches page 10

[Anonymous No.15317257]

>>15317255
I thought is automatically gets down when it reaches around 300 replies?

[Anonymous No.15317293]

>>15317257
Threads that have reached the bump limit have their post number italicized.

[Anonymous No.15317303]

>>15317293
Ok, I guess my eyes are fucked then.
I know this is a high crime to ask, but what is the current limit if not 300? It was definitely saged around 340

[Anonymous No.15317306]

>>15317303
Varies per board I believe

[Anonymous No.15317309]

>>15317306
The working guess is 310 it seems

[Anonymous No.15317343]

>>15317239
Alright
A little review of the last one.

We discussed whether cheetahs should be allowed to go extinct in the wild.
The consensus is no, we should help.

Some guy threw in a buzzword about dopamine reward system but that didn't get any traction

Someone was curious about animal communication and it's evolution, but that didn't go beyond the basics too

We talked a bit about Fisher's peaks and valleys and Dawkins's first two books

Then the discussion on whether the Traces of DNA can be found in fossils.

The consensus is "yes, but nothing that can be salvaged and useful"

Then we talked about the Moroz's work on neuronal and neuron-adjacent development in marine life. That was very fascinating

We talked about the effect that fires have on the climate change and ecosystem as a whole. Very insightful

Then we swiped the discussion of the insects as food and talked about that a bit

That's about it, everything else has little to do with biology

[Anonymous No.15317372]

>>15317343
Shud up already. Nobody cares about your feelings and interests, we can discuss biology just fine without your sorry ass.

[Anonymous No.15317392]

>>15317257
this is why noobs are supposed to lurk for a year or two before posting

[Anonymous No.15317397]

>>15317372
its a biological fact that some far large fraction of the human population sufferer from:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder
truth be told, its everyone else around them who suffers while they're trapped in the happy delusion of being a special snowflake, but you catch my drift. NPD faggots are common, they have very recognizable characteristics, you're bound to run into a lot of them.
there is no cure for the condition, unlike many other mental illnesses, NPD completely negates any attempt at treatment and over the course of a lifetime the condition only grow more severe.
just stating the sad unfortunate facts

[Anonymous No.15317407]

>>15317372
Nice vintage cat pic
>>15317239
Here's a cool nature article on cats I found
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33268857/
Hippoalergic cats seem like a really cool thing, I once had to sleep with one I had serious allergies with and boy was it unpleasant

[Anonymous No.15317409]

>>15317239
pic look like the dude is trying to fuck the dog's ear, with assistance from the urologist

[Anonymous No.15317418]

>>15317343
>Some guy threw in a buzzword about dopamine reward system but that didn't get any traction
Is this that retardation about eliminating pain in wildlife?

[Anonymous No.15317426]

>>15317418
No, he said that it was a much better topic than animal preservation so I assume he was in the other side of the issue.
There were those that proclaimed what you suggested, though

[Anonymous No.15317824]

>>15317239
Do cactuses really absorb radiation from your monitor?
https://thenichollsworth.com/7011389/news/victims-of-suspended-geography-professor-come-forward/

[Anonymous No.15317832]

>>15317239
>biology
>>/x

[Anonymous No.15317876]

>>15317239
>The field of biology is widely misrepresented and misunderstood on /sci/ and in general, even among other STEM researchers.
We aim to correct that with productive discussion on the topic.

Example >>15317832

[Anonymous No.15317911]

>>15317343
Pruning out the trolling that about covers it. Though the thing about insects appears to have been motivated by setting up a particular axe to grind and trolling about that instead, and nothing worth talking about resulted from it unlike the other examples.

And so now we wait if anyone has any worthwhile questions or topics. I definitely don't think "durrr logic is fantasy land u lose" is worthwhile, so there's not much left for me to discuss.
>>15317407
Isn't the problem in the first place an allergy, not to the cat, but the proteins of the mites feeding off their dead skin? Hence dander, dandruff. Either way I don't even know if there's a definitive answer as to whether the allergy is to something in the skin of the cat itself or really is the kind of proteins created by the skin mites. If the latter, clearly trying to modify the cat is not really going to help. You'd have to fill the ecological niche with further modified mites.

[Anonymous No.15317931]

>>15317911
I don't usually have any allergies to cars, but there is one cat that does provoke a reaction

I have a suspicion that there are more than one allergen associated with cats

[Anonymous No.15318121]

>>15317931
Yeah that's possible, at least abstractly. Don't know enough about specifics of the allergy or allergies pertaining to animals to say more. If I recall there are also different species of mites, though I haven't a clue if this is something that could make one allergic to one type of skin mite versus another. Or if some allergies are related to the mites at all. Allergies are sonsabitches.

[Anonymous No.15318142]

Do you think anyone is going to read 100 massive posts of nothing?
Make basic infographics to start

[Anonymous No.15318143]

>>15318142
Do you think anyone who finds doing that difficult is worth talking to?

Hint: They're not.

[Anonymous No.15319325]

>>15318143
No need to be so harsh, some people ARE very visual.
>>15318142
Here you go,we kinda dropped this topic last time

[Anonymous No.15319333]

>>15319325
Another one I saved
Very pleasing to my eye

[Anonymous No.15319341]

>>15317309
>310
that's i think the normal number for blue boards
i think /scg/ hits 310 often

[Anonymous No.15319769]

>>15317911
How the hell does bioelectricity work?
And if it's so op, why didn't it evolve in more things?

[Anonymous No.15319801]

>>15319769
I am not OP. I was responding to OP. Mechanisms involved in things like that were never relevant to anything I was doing, so nothing I know would be relevant to answering. I have no special insight on the evolution of bioelectrical shocks as a defense mechanism.

[Anonymous No.15320107]

>>15319769
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioelectricity
Try this for starters

[Cult of Passion No.15320141]

>>15320107
>Try this for starters
And this for extra credit.
https://youtu.be/41b254BcMJM

[Anonymous No.15320150]

[Anonymous No.15320160]

>>15320150

[Anonymous No.15321564]

>>15320141
Interesting, I'll check it out when I get the time

[Anonymous No.15321731]

Does anyone have an access to this article?
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36899190/
I'm a bit interested in knowing the contents.
It's quite an achievement to make a brain connectome, even for a drozophila, we can expect one for a mouse in 5-10 years at this rate
https://mouse.braindatacenter.cn/

[Anonymous No.15322288]

Ok, this place is kinda in hibernation it seems.
Can you help this anon (>>15319048 ) out and recommend good books and other sources for biology?

[Anonymous No.15322338]

>>15322288
I sincerely doubt my advice will matter, as I can count the number of people who've listened without hands. The number is zero. I am very funny.
>>15321731
You may be able to request it through its author(s) or library/university. No luck on my end.

[Anonymous No.15322378]

>>15322338
I guess I can do that or just wait till it's available

[Anonymous No.15322441]

>>15322338
What's your specialty and the level of understanding? That's what Matters I think. Also the ability to communicate and teach of course.

[Anonymous No.15324887]

What does caffeine do in the plants it is harvested from (tea, coffee)?
https://coffeeaffection.com/plants-that-contain-caffeine/
It stimulates us, but why does the plant need it?

[Anonymous No.15325438]

>>15324887
>What does caffeine do in the plants it is harvested from (tea, coffee)?
I don't know much about anything botanical but I'll share what little I do think I know. There's a genre of fiction that casts humans as the equivalent of the cthulu-horrors in space to other species, or "space orcs", for a lot of reasons. One of which is the tendency for humans to consume, for fun, things that would kill most other animals in body-mass equivalent quantities. Caffeine is one of many of these examples, as it acts as a natural pesticide in the relevant plants. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine#Natural_occurrence

I'm not sure if a botanist would tell you more, or if a pharmacologist would know more than a botanist. My superficial understanding of it is that it largely serves as a pesticide in natural occurrence, as well as some possible examples of symbiotic relationships with animals like other plants. In that animals variously will eat the seeds, defecate them, and spread them as a result. Naturally this depends on what kind of plant we're talking about, as I do not think the seed spreading thing applies to tea leaves.

[Anonymous No.15325455]

>>15325438
That seems to be the case, yes. Caffeine is toxic to the plant itself so it's stored in vacuoles and in high enough doses it can act as a poison on humans.

[Anonymous No.15327121]

>>15317239
Plenty of biological discussion, bit not here.
I wonder why?

[Anonymous No.15327131]

>>15327121
Because we actually care about the science here not schizoposting. Almost like learning and understanding real science is more work than huffing farts in a jar. It is to be expected

[Anonymous No.15327245]

>>15327131
Well yeah, but when I actually try to give some sort of real explanation people that know a thing or two do appear from time to time.
They can be a bit full of themselves, but they are around

[Anonymous No.15327403]

>>15327121
There's a really verbose and angry midwit who comes in and derails all of the discussions when they go outside his walled garden of acceptable discourse. It makes people not want to post anything interesting.

[Anonymous No.15327417]

>>15327403
rent free

[Anonymous No.15327428]

>>15327403
Are you sure he's contained here and hasn't moved on?
I don't see any anime pictures or incoherent ramblings?

[Anonymous No.15327433]

>>15327428
Nobody has posted anything interesting here in days so he's probably shitting up another thread.

[Anonymous No.15327685]

>>15327131
Know any good biology forums or something like that?

[Anonymous No.15328818]

>>15327685
I know of no good forums, chats, or anything of the kind. They're inevitably run, or ruined, by people who have to live online.

[Anonymous No.15328820]

Best papers/books on protozoans and microscopic metazoans?

[Anonymous No.15328906]

>>15324887
It's an insecticide

[Anonymous No.15329145]

BEHOLD

mutations in frog sulfotransferase protein that may or may not have an evolutionary purpose

I will take my nobel prize now please

[Anonymous No.15329365]

>>15329145
I am displeased that I cannot click an atom.

[Anonymous No.15329501]

>>15329365
Here’s a click for you

*click*

[Anonymous No.15330078]

>>15328820
What level are we speaking?

[Anonymous No.15330321]

>>15328820
This is by far your best general overview on protists.

[Anonymous No.15330534]

>>15330321
Thank you for the tip, I'll check if my universities library stocks it.
On a related note, I just picked up "Protozoological Monographs Volume 3" which is full of stunning color photographs of different species. The pdf is available for free on Foissners homepage, highly reccomended.

[Anonymous No.15330538]

>>15330534
NTA I'll give that one a look. Always happy to add to my collection of reference materials especially if it's free. Is it text searchable? Do you know of more like this? My country is extreme in its anti-piracy measures so I only go for public available or genuinely free/open or rentable/licensable stuff.

[Anonymous No.15330974]

>>15330538
http://www.wfoissner.at/publications.htm
I am not sure if it's text searchable. A great source for websites and books on the topic of micrsocopy is the Microbehunter Forum, in the ressource section.

[Anonymous No.15331764]

>>15330321
>>15330534
Thanks for the recommendations

[Anonymous No.15332285]

>>15328818
It's kinda disconcerting that this actually might be the best place of that kind in the internet.
Maybe some closed university groups or something are better...

[Anonymous No.15332308]

>>15332285
I find 4chan no better or worse. It is just a different flavoring of retarded and narcissistic. Welcome to humanity. It is all garbage.

[Anonymous No.15333736]

>>15332308
Yes, but a club filled with garbage biologists sounds fun, I want it

[Anonymous No.15334827]

>>15330974
That's super cool, man. Wish other scientists would have something like that

[Anonymous No.15334976]

>>15319801
He means OP as in "overpowered" (gamer term)

[Anonymous No.15335076]

>>15334976
Huh. yeah I know what it means. Just somehow completely skimmed and rearranged everything he wrote in my sleep. Serves me right for responding at 2 am in between sleeping. Sleep deprivation can really fuck you up

[Anonymous No.15335083]

wow, absolutely no science

[Anonymous No.15335087]

>>15335083
where my cyclical enzymes niggas @?

[Anonymous No.15335099]

In general, any tetrahedral atom with four different groups attached to it will be chiral. This includes all of the amino acids except glycine, all the monosaccharides, and many other compounds

Nadeau, Jay L.. Introduction to Experimental Biophysics (Foundations of Biochemistry and Biophysics) (p. 39). CRC Press. Kindle Edition
Why's this? You should be working on this.

[Anonymous No.15335105]

>>15335099
are there cryptochromes in birds' eyes that migrate really?

[Anonymous No.15335111]

>>15335105
what sensory system is those newts or whatever that live in caves that can sense magnetic fields?

[Anonymous No.15335116]

>>15335111
humans can smell chirality sometimes, what can dogs smell?

[Anonymous No.15335120]

>>15317309

[Anonymous No.15335131]

could we create an interferometer that smelled?

[Anonymous No.15335260]

>>15335131
>interferometer
Yes, but why?
What does it have to do with biology?

[Anonymous No.15335382]

Why is taking a dog to the vet such a fucking lottery?

>Take dog to vet with hurt leg, limping
>"Its genetic, can try to fix with surgery, might not be successful, if goes wrong dog will be crippled, and its $$$$"
>Don't have the money, wait, see dog slowly recover, 6 weeks later dog is 100% okay.
>Later find out dog had been hit on leg by a vehicle, it was just bruised.

Jesus H Christ. I could have spent a small fortune on surgery the dog didn't need and which could have fucked dog up for life.

Another time.
>Dog has painful swelling on paw.
>Go to vet ( different one this time )
>"We need to take a biopsy, send off to lab, get results and then tell you what the results are
>Consultation was $60, all the rest will cost $250, just to tell us what is wrong.
>Fuck this, its likely a grass seed embedded, outer skin healed over but going septic inside.
>Ask a dozen people for vet they recommend, only one name stands out among literally dozens.
>Go to that Vet, tell him I think its a grass seed. >He agrees that is most likely.
>"Yes anon, it was a grass seed, pulled it out with minor incision and only one stitch needed, Very easy. "
>Cost $100 including antibiotics.

And several more stories like that over the years before we found that one Vet we could trust.

Just fuck, where the fuck do they get you people, from a dice roll?

[thefuckingcrowguy No.15335512]

>>15335382
previcox is straight up dog killer

[Anonymous No.15336031]

Are there any forums out there that focus on bioinformatics? I'm currently using biostars and seqanswers but I'm wondering if there's a nice shitposty one.

[Anonymous No.15336118]

>>15336031
Not to my knowledge, but I've no interest in that kind of thing myself. This board could use more bioinformatics and a whole lot less shitposting though.

[Anonymous No.15336425]

Medicine in all forms is a violation of evolution by natural selection.
It is stochastic artificial selection.
I suppose the term is "dysgenics".
Fun times ahead.

[Anonymous No.15336500]

>>15336425
>Medicine in all forms is a violation of evolution by natural selection.
"Natural selection" doesn't mean what you think it means.
>>Natural selection - The process by which genotypes best suited to survive and reproduce in a given environment, and so gradually increase the overall ability of the population to thrive, is called natural selection.
The "natural" part simply means this is emergent, or necessarily true, without any input.
>I suppose the term is "dysgenics".
Feel free to deny yourself all medical care and go live in the woods to practice what you preach.

[Anonymous No.15336527]

>>15336500
>Feel free to deny yourself all medical care and go live in the woods to practice what you preach.
You don't have to move to practice such preaching. I see the ambulances pass by. I need not take a bed when we are in the middle of...what do scientists call it..."the sixth mass extinction".
You deserve to be forgotten, and you will, Anon. You will.

[Anonymous No.15336629]

>>15336527
>You deserve to be forgotten, and you will, Anon. You will.
lol buddy just because you're terrified of your unimportance doesn't mean anybody else cares. Swing and a miss.

[Anonymous No.15337668]

>>15335382
How is that any different from going to see a doctor?
Unless it is something patently obvious like a broken leg, or you have a competent doctor who you already really trust, any complaint you might have is likely to be subjected to the random number generator of the medical profession.

[Anonymous No.15339398]

>>15336527
Which scientists? Physicists are like that maybe, but not biologists.
>the sixth mass extinction"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction
I don't know how to tell you this, but humans are the cause but not the target.
What does medicine have to do with the mass extinction events?
I kinda doubt the whole "extinction causes pandemics" narrative, but I'm open to being corrected in that

[Anonymous No.15339410]

Dogs are more intelligent than cats are, that's a scientific fact.

[Anonymous No.15339609]

>>15339410
Probably

[Anonymous No.15339730]

>>15339410
You say that yet you post a fucking chihuahua
I got bad news for you

[Anonymous No.15340182]

>>15339730
How much does the size difference affect cognitive ability in dog breeds?

[Anonymous No.15341292]

>>15339730
Chihuahuas are pretty smart, their temper is just too much.

Dogs indeed are more intelligent since they're more adaptable. On basic cognitive tests, which often are designed in retarded manner, dogs and cats are pretty much even. However, social intelligence is very high in dogs, I'd even argue that interspecies social intelligence is the highest among dogs of whole animal kingdom. Dogs have naturally social intelligence of a trained primate. If I recall correctly the theory of mind and self-consciousness is proven in dogs but not among cats.

[Anonymous No.15341307]

>>15341292
>If I recall correctly the theory of mind and self-consciousness is proven in dogs but not among cats.
That, like many false claims of animal intelligence or lack thereof, has more to do with following commands reliably than any independent measure of intelligence or animal interest in problem solving when it suits them.

Obviously cats have self awareness and theory of mind. Anyone who watches even kittens playing with one another can fucking see that.

[Anonymous No.15342058]

>>15341307
Levin proposes that basically anything with with the developed nervous system are aware of themselves

[Anonymous No.15342174]

>>15342058
No clue. I don't know enough about neurological research on more basal CNS. Odds are whenever or whichever series and sets of brain regions that tend to localize self perceptions and orient a given animal to the world and itself would have some degree of "self awareness". Same goes for theory of mind with respect to any kind of social behaviors and whether they can remember or identify various members of its kin or species. That can be extended to birds as well, hence remembering assholes or people who give them shit.

Odds are anything of the sort would originate, if I recall correctly, with phsyiomoto orientation and locational perception in extremely basal forms. Any kind of theory of mind, likewise, would be similarly basal and likely related to reproduction and similar functions for at minimum any kind of "social behaviors" pertaining at least to reproduction. Which is stretching the definition of "social" to be sure depending on just how basal that really ends up being. Given things evolve along gradual adaptations I would not be surprised if Levin is **mostly** correct given that. The big difference would be the point where animals demonstrate planning concepts relating to their own behavior, e.g. anticipatory thinking which requires modeling the world and their place in it as well as expecting how they or "others" think or act. Complex as that sounds nearly all animals qualify even if in a very simple way.

Also, which Levin?

[Anonymous No.15344520]

So what does everyone ITT do?

[Anonymous No.15345093]

>>15344520
>ITT
In regards to biology I'm a neurophysiologist, my specialty is Alzheimer's
Worked in a lab on RNA tests for COVID at one point in 2020-21
Also have a side project on history of biology, but to busy to get it done
Everything else is tangential to biology

[Anonymous No.15345984]

>>15342174
Probably this one https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Levin_(biologist)

[Anonymous No.15345997]

>>15345984
I guessed but there are a lot of Levin's. Thanks.

[Anonymous No.15346392]

>>15344520
Current bio student here.
Going to be doing an internship in a few weeks for a research project looking at the effect of microorganisms on seed germination for agricultural and wildlife management purposes.
Not sure yet if I want a career in research, teaching, ecology, or something else.

[Anonymous No.15347420]

I just found out there are only about 3 trillion fish in the ocean. Ignoring reproduction and abstractly speaking, this means human meat e*ters could actually completely empty the ocean within a single lifetime, as eating ~1000 fish per lifetime is reasonable.
If you ever needed proof current human civilization is a cancer, this is it.

I just thought there would be one or two more orders of magnitude in between.

[Anonymous No.15347443]

Is microbiology worth getting into?

[Anonymous No.15347472]

>>15347443
Depends what kind of work you enjoy

[Anonymous No.15347539]

So, have any of you read this?
>https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(23)00262-3
> if plants emit airborne sounds, these sounds can potentially trigger a rapid response in nearby organisms, including both animals and plants
>We therefore set to examine whether plants emit informative airborne sounds
>Here we show that plants indeed emit airborne sounds, which can be detected from several meters away, both in acoustic chambers and in greenhouses. Moreover, we show that the emitted sounds carry information about the physiological state of the plant. By training machine learning models, we were able to distinguish between drought-stressed, cut, and control plants, based only on the sounds they emit

So plants do scream huh?

[Anonymous No.15347545]

>>15347420
Eating meat is the correct way of life through which you can connect with nature. Death is part of life

[Anonymous No.15347547]

>>15347443
Depends, industrial microbiology if your country has a strong agroalimentary sector, ecological microbiology is usually a nono, sanitary microbiology tends to be safe but also overloaded with people with the same idea so competition is high, research depends a lot on your country and if you intend to do it as a hobby you will have to spend around 400-1000€

[Anonymous No.15347549]

>>15347539
Vegans can never catch a break can they?

[Anonymous No.15348854]

Let's do a spicy topic
How much do the cats control humans?
Points for control:
>Cats have gained features that make them more attractive to humans
>Cats are often taken care of without any real work being required of them
>Cats can give humans toxoplasmosis
>Cats murk all wildlife they can and dominate because they get the protection and food from people
>The population of domestic cats is ludicrous compared to other cats
>If you move and change owners, most cats won't be too bothered
>If you die, cats will eat your face while it's still warm
>Cats were worhipped as god's by multiple cultures
Points against control:
>We control their breeding
>We kill more cats than anything else
>Cats can show affection towards us and see us as parts of the family
>Cats can give us things we want without much prompting
>Cats are useful for pest control
>We are more intelligent
>We did experiments on cats
>We eat them if we're hungry

Feel free to add more
What do you think?

[Anonymous No.15348951]

>>15348854
I thinks it’s an interesting question but there no real solid answer to quantify right now either.
At least with current understanding and technology.

Because, for instance, how much does the toxoplasmosis affect the cats? How much does it affect the humans? We know it can make people more reckless and prone to partaking in dangerous activities.
How does the toxo direct human, feline or rodent actions? What chemicals are involved? What causes differences in the expression of these genetic byproducts?

Before we can even consider this trifecta of “controllers”, we must establish how each member exerts their force on the others. How this exertion of direction affects the other members own manipulative actions. And so on.

Right now I see it as more of a philosophical question than a scientific one, although that’s only because I haven’t thought of a good way to quantify and experiment on these presuppositions.

[Anonymous No.15348978]

>>15348854
>How much do the cats control humans?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interspecies_friendship
Species can self-domesticate to one another. Symbiosis, mutualism.

There can be no answer because the framing of "control" is false. If the framing of the question is based on a false premise it cannot be said to have a truthful answer.

[Anonymous No.15349462]

>>15347545
I have no time for your euthanasia worthy 100 IQ takes.
1. You commit an appeal to nature fallacy. Nature has intended for humans to be naked.
Strip. Now.

2. I am not entirely tied to my genetic programming. In fact, it contains the leeway to pass what I deem moral judgments. My consciousness deem moral judgments of importance. Therefore, I enact moral judgments. According to these, meat falls outside the acceptability. Taking your non-thought further, any act would depend on the organism knowing what is its "intended modus operandi", but this is an utterly incoherent suggestion. It confuses the map (knowledge) with the territory (individual organism).

You understood nothing I talked about. Absolute 90 IQ retard.

[Anonymous No.15349849]

Any at home DIY genetic engineering an amateur scientist could do? Or is the equipment too expensive?

I'm a computer guy but biology / agriculture / fungi have far more beauty and soul down to every detail. I'd like to dig deep into it.

[Anonymous No.15349915]

>>15349849
You can just do breeding.
Select those that reproduce relatively quickly and select the ones with the traits you want
Keep at it and you'll get results

[Anonymous No.15349935]

>>15349915
>just do breeding.
>just
in the entire decades long history of genetic engineering so far, exactly one arguably useful genetic has been produced, roundup ready corn,
during the same timeframe, traditional selctive breeding has produced thousand of useful new genetics. even the stupid drug addict potheads have outperformed genetic engineering. genetic engineering is a comic bookish meme which does not perform in reality no matter how much money is thrown at it, but the meme appeals to impatient mental cases with entitlement syndromes because its sold as a press button immediate solution while selective breeding requires patience and long term planning, something mental cases aren't capable of.

[Anonymous No.15350079]

>>15349935
I would say it depends.
For plants breeding seems to be most effective.
For large animals not so much, CRISPR/Cas might do some major things there.

Dismissing any potentiality usefull approach is not helpful.
If you are worried about government spending money you act as a citizen, not a scientist.
Scientific budgets are simultaneously mismanaged and too low in every country in the world.
That's without touching upon stagnation in the education and thebeurocracy, the tendency to pick teams and other stuff like that.

[Anonymous No.15350094]

>>15350079
genetic engineering doesn't work. dna isn't a collection of toggle switches. theres more to it than that, i've been selectively breeding plants since i was a kid and i've run across a couple rare cases which rule out the oversimplified punnett square idea as being universal. it does work over 99% of the time, however there is also another factor at play.

[Anonymous No.15350099]

>>15350094
You can't make bacteria process plastics or make mice that glow in the dark this way, anon.
Therse approaches are not competing, they are complementary.
What has genetic engineering done to make you so upset?

[Anonymous No.15350110]

>>15317239
Any good Anki courses for Biology on the master's level?
I mostly see college entrance exam preparations and general knowledge.
The amino acid one is good

[Anonymous No.15350678]

>>15347539
Wait, what the fuck? How come this isn't huge news?

[Anonymous No.15350832]

>>15350678
Because what the publication in itself shows that you can measure a certain range of sounds and use artificial intelligence to relate those sounds with the state of the plant. It doesn't actually talk about how other plants use those sounds.

And at any rate, the subject of"plants communicate through volatile chemicals and sounds" is something that has been going on for a while, and we do know that they use chemicals to communicate but it isn't so clear that they use sounds so it isn't that revolutionary.

[Anonymous No.15350906]

>>15350678
What's huge about it?
If you don't try to anthropomorphize and relate to plants it's nothing too radical

[Anonymous No.15350928]

>>15317343
>Someone was curious about animal communication and it's evolution, but that didn't go beyond the basics too

Can someone explain to me how bees work?

[Anonymous No.15350961]

>>15350928
They are eusocial insects like ants.
The hive is the mass of genetically related insects with the majority being workers and a little bit of drones and a queen
Queen gas a lot of power, but workers have a lot of day collectively too. Drones are useless for anything other than procreation (I guess they are good at flying since they compete for the queen in giant swarms in the sky)
They communicate chemically and through "dance"
Is that enough?

[Anonymous No.15351045]

>>15350961
Thanks. Do you know more about the dance thing?

[Anonymous No.15351443]

>>15351045
Not my specialty unfortunately, I know more about ants and they don't dance, they get shit done (jk, bees are super important and deserve respect)
Try this
https://scholar.google.ru/scholar?q=bees+communication+dance&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart#d=gs_qabs&t=1681484144552&u=%23p%3dlmxsqmdzv4qj

Also there was a lady on JRE that works with bees. Interesting podcast.

[Anonymous No.15351506]

>>15351443
Aren't ants just way more metal, no-fun allowed versions of bees?

[Anonymous No.15351611]

>>15351506
Depends on the species.
(I don't think atropomorohisms is a good thing, but I'll allow myself to do it this time)
Some ants are hard working salt of the earth mushroom and or aphid farmers.
Some are slavers that Forse the slaves to take care of them
Some are blind raiders without the nest
So e queen's just go inside the nest and kill their queen and take over

Don't know much about termites and naked molerats though

But bees are pretty metal too
When the drones fullfil their function the are just not fed and then thrown out the hive to die.
Sometimes there can be several queen candidates and then the first to be born will go around decapitating the competition one by one.
Alternatively when the queen is old the workers can make a now one by feeding one of the larvae the royal jelly.
After that the old and the new queen will fight to the death

[Anonymous No.15352049]

>>15351611
Pretty neat. Do you reckon either has any type of intelligence?

[Anonymous No.15352054]

>>15350678
Chemical signaling and so forth, like sound signaling and otherwise, has very basal forms that don't really imply anything. Cells use chemical signaling, for example, and many plants have been found to as well.

I don't really know what you think is huge about it, unless you think it somehow implies some significant level of sentience or something silly?

[Anonymous No.15353389]

>>15352049
>>15352049
If you consider the whole hive/nest as one superorganism they are the pinnacle of arthropod intelligence.
It's like each ant is a node in the chemically controlled computer
Bees too.
Different species rely on other things we can't feel like ultraviolet vision and electromagnetic fields... At least that's what I've read.

[Anonymous No.15353993]

>>15349462
Try eating some deenz, deenz nuts

[Anonymous No.15356814]

Bump

[Anonymous No.15356819]

Biologically speaking, is there any future for gene therapy now that it's been shown to be horrifically dangerous? Will we ever find a way to do it that has an acceptable safety profile?

[Anonymous No.15357186]

>>15353993
>this fucking guy

[Anonymous No.15357389]

>>15356819
>gene therapy now that it's been shown to be horrifically dangerous?
Wut?
>Will we ever find a way to do it that has an acceptable safety profile?
Gene therapy has been more ineffective than dangerous.

[Anonymous No.15357405]

>>15357389
Frankly with how difficult it is to even get any of it working I think "being dangerous" would be a fucking step forward.

[Anonymous No.15357439]

hating on biology is seething over mother nature

[Anonymous No.15357481]

>>15357405
>https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17545436/
What about this? Can I just open my feet, cut my achilles heel, drop some adenoviruses, close it up and rinse and repeat every day until I have stronger tendons?

[Strange Love No.15357522]

>>15357389

>Wut?

Faulty and/or accidental integration into the genome being one reason. Our genetic code is full of fucking transposable elements, HERVs, most of the narrowly suppressed and ready to copy/paste whatever shit you feed into the cell in random positions all over your chromosomes. Introducing foreign genetic material into a cell, especially when done at high dosage or with artificially increased half life is a very silly thing to do.

[Anonymous No.15358027]

Ants are cool
How are they so immune?
They eat trash and are brash
But there is no population crash.

[Anonymous No.15358167]

>>15321731
Cheers friend

[Anonymous No.15358620]

>>15358167
Thanks. That's something to chew on

[Anonymous No.15359461]

>>15357481
no

[Cult of Jealous bodhl No.15361669]

>>15357481
I would advise injections instead

[Anonymous No.15361693]

>>15361669
Don't I need to cut the tendon to force the cells to multiply and express the new genes?

[Cult of Jealous bodhl No.15361718]

>>15361693
Blood vessels reach almost every cell in the organism, at least getting within the range of the gradient.
I would assume the total therapy will require submersions and several regular injections intramuscular and intravenous

[Anonymous No.15362026]

I fucked up another PCR goddammit

[Anonymous No.15362208]

>>15362026
It happens
I remember we were working with a PhD med student (I was bio undergrad) and just couldn't make that thing to work
After a few tries our handler showed up, did it himself and... It didn't work either.
Then we just gave up and did something else.

[Anonymous No.15362452]

>>15362208
In my experience when something that always works has stopped working even when the competent person tries it you've been cursed by the phase of the moon and no attempt to fix the issue is going to result in success until the curse has been lifted.

Which is a lot more fun of an idea than all the troubleshooting and laborious work that goes in to an equally superstitious hunt for the goddamn heisenbug responsible.

Oh, look, it's Monday.

[Anonymous No.15362614]

>>15362452
Indeed it is.
Already evening for me though, so I'm relaxing

[Anonymous No.15362709]

/sci/entists, I am trying for a child with my wife soon.
How do I ensure I have a strong son who is not gay?

[Anonymous No.15362765]

>>15362709
Too late. You're already a massive faggot.

[Anonymous No.15363763]

>>15362709
Disregarding the gay thing... If you wanna healthy child and relatively manageable process, then
Try going to a clinic and getting appropriate testing for both parents.
If you have any risks for the child go with in-vitro fertilisation of the best combination of gametes.

[Anonymous No.15365228]

>>15362709
You need to do artificial selection which implies in vitro fertilization

[Anonymous No.15366231]

>>15363763
>>15365228
Already done. No genetic risk factors.
If we take gay people at their word that it is not a choice, it is therefore genetic.(though I have my doubts and suspect partly is due to upbringing). Pre conception care is well established in women. Bad behaviours like alcohol, drug use affect both egg and environment and have negative effects on foetus.
Therefore I want to know how to have conventionally healthy offspring, what sort of diet, supplementation etc to minimise risk of defective child

[Anonymous No.15366284]

>>15366231
I'm a little worried about how much involved you are trying to get with your child's life at this early point DESU
But I suppose it's within your rights if the mother is aware and in agreement.
Philosophically it5 problematic but practically it is what it is.
Don't be surprised if they rebel more than usual when they find out though
Might turn into a self fulfilling prophecy so I'll recommend not putting too much attention on things you don't want them to do.
Doesn't matter if you paint it + or -, it will cement it on the spectrum and there is a tendency to do the opposite of what you are taught at a certain point.

Not sure if I would've had a homosexual relationship to spite my parents, but that's probably because they were pretty great.
There are many causes of homosexual behaviour and not all of them are genetic.

Just want you to be aware of the consequences of focusing on the problem too much.
That whole thing with Catholic school girls being extremely interested in sex for example.
Repression builds tention and the forbidden fruit is sweet.

[Anonymous No.15366369]

>>15366284
You seem to be implying that homosexuality is a choice, and caused by nurture. Do you have any scientific evidence that this is the case?

[Anonymous No.15366386]

>>15366369
homosexuality is a mental illness
homosexuals are human garbage
taliban deals with them correctly

[Anonymous No.15366412]

>>15366369
Why does it have to be one or the other?
This is a biology thread so I'll generalize before going into details

There is no absolute statements in biology.
It obviously rests upon physics and chemistry that allow it to happen, but any complexity beyond that is extremely variable.
The problem in my understanding is that this variation is very unknown unless you study it.
The reason for that is natural selection.
It usually finds equilibrium in making the prevailing majority of any thing, be it species, metabolic pathway, range of visulion or sexual preference the one that *currently* (with the reaction time of millions of years for most creatures) the most adaptable one.
Nevertheless it leaves the room for other variants of life in several ways.

For example, lichens are mostly inferior to plants... Unless there is no soil or its really poor. That's why lichens have a niche of inhabiting the areas where plants can't grow and then they form the soil that is then taken by plants. They are a pioneer species and that makes them viable (also they can grow where the soil won't form like the rocks at angle and threes themselves)
Another example. Marsupials are generally speaking less adapted than the placentation animals that take the same ecological niche. Australia is a good example of that... Exept for a species of cangaroos (there are the species that are endangered, but this one dominates https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/save-australias-ecosystem-ecologists-say-eat-kangaroos-180964846/).). It just turned out to be very adaptable to the change in the ecosystem despite having the usual limitations of the marsupials.

Anyway, what I'm saying is that it doesn't have to be one way or the other. I know this term has been coopted, but it really is the spectrum.
Homosexual heritability by it's nature would be receive unless it's actually a bisexual or pansexual heritability.
It's a very complicated issue and all the political discourse is not helping

[Anonymous No.15366417]

>>15366412
Sorry, the link broke
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/save-australias-ecosystem-ecologists-say-eat-kangaroos-180964846/
Have a nice pic also

[Anonymous No.15366624]

Dan Carlin put out a new episode focused on the humanity's history as a whole starting around 300000 years ago or 6000 people if you go by assuming that average lifespan would be around 50
That counting really put it into perspective for me
As a biologist with an interest in history it was really interesting to see his perspective after so many years of studying history that he did.
I highly recommend it and would love to hear your thoughts.
Maybe we can enhance it with some biological expertise.
https://youtu.be/GYAn-1HE9Y8

[Anonymous No.15367519]

>>15362452
We call it dancing with the tambourine
Mostly it just causes rains instead of making PCR work

[Anonymous No.15367582]

>>15366412
>Why does it have to be one or the other?
Well anyone who knows anything about biology would know that it's both, but the issue is your average person thinks "environment" as some significant contribution means things parents can control after somebody is born. The majority of any effect one could call "environment" would really be endogenous, and if exogenous at all wouldn't be something behaviorally controlled anyway.

In any event what it amounts to is obviously something like sexuality is not "a choice" nor is there any meaningful evidence to suggest there are any "choices" you could make to alter the probabilities. Just a whole lot of myths or heavily cherrypicked /pol/ tier "research". The guy was clearly trolling anyway, but if you're not considering how people think of these things OUTSIDE of biology the words you use to explain it will reinforce the wrong idea people have.

[Anonymous No.15367604]

>>15367582
That's the tricky part. Having to choose between speaking truthfully but allowing my words to be twisted orjust declaring clearly but losing nuances Is a bad choice so I don't choose usually.
I was mostly just interested in explaining the general thing about lichen and cangaroos, the gay stuff is tangential

[Anonymous No.15367615]

>>15367604
Yeah I know the feeling. Same thing for trying to be brief like my reply was. Someone could just dishonestly pick over anything you write, ignore context, ignore what was being replied to, and make up all sorts of shit. Since I was writing specifically about homosexuality, for example, I did not add relevant clarifiers with respect to many other things where there might be discernable exogenous environmental correlations or causes, such as obesity, and a dishonest fuck ignoring context would just reply "hurrr what about all this irrelevant xyz u stoopid".

Point is on the one hand I get it, but on the other hand it helps a lot to understand what people misunderstand and why. That way you can frame what you write in a way that is accurate to their misunderstanding, so they actually have something closer to the right idea instead of running off with the wrong one. Helps to say that outright too if you think to remember to do so, if the person you're talking to has a single honest bone in his body anyway. If not it's usually pretty obvious, since they'll start ignoring context and cherrypicking just to feel smug.

[Anonymous No.15368729]

>>15367615
People usually disregard your post if you outright state something they don't agree with regardless of your reasoning and data
Sad but truez especially when it comes to such critical stuff as parenting
So I just wanted to warn about blowback if they focus too much on fostering their children to be a certain way
You need to guide them there, not force them
And definitely not in a small box but in a certain space of ideas that can be expanded because the world 20 years later is very different from what we have now

[Anonymous No.15368831]

>>15368729
>People usually disregard your post if you outright state something they don't agree with regardless of your reasoning and data
too real bruh

[Anonymous No.15369663]

>>15341292
Dogs are essentially our genetically engineered slaves.
>They are loyal even if we treat them terribly
>They know how to listen to our commands in the genetic level
>Specific breeds made for one purpose that make them unviable without human care (pugs for example)

That's why I'll take the car that will eat my face. At least it's not my slave, More like a roommate I feed

[Anonymous No.15370802]

>>15369663
Quite a lot of animals can understand communication of some degree or other. It is simply a matter of whether or not they care, or if we communicate in a manner they'll be receptive to. Sort of how anyone who has owned cats and isn't completely autistic would understand how badly botched most "research" on cats has been.
>Researcher wants to do test
>Cat doesn't care
>Researcher declares cat dumb
Honestly it seems like animal behavior and cognition researchers are the crayon eaters of the research world, because I cannot for the life of me comprehend half the shit I've found they've written about any animal I am familiar with. Maybe it's gotten better, or maybe I only know of the worst examples because the media just loves to report retarded results.

[Anonymous No.15370834]

>>15370802
This is called the Gell-Mann Effect. You can tell how retarded the replication crisis science is in fields you know about, but you still believe in the replication crisis science in fields you aren't experienced with.

[Anonymous No.15370897]

>>15370834
Gell-mann amnesia is not an excuse for making hasty generalizations. You clearly understand neither of the things you've mentioned.

[Anonymous No.15370914]

>>15370897
I'm not sure why that touched a nerve, but I'd love to hear about your particular abnormal psychology.

[Anonymous No.15370949]

>>15370914
You're too irrelevant to touch a nerve. Simply pointed out you understand neither things, and it's a shame people like you abuse such concepts. Nothing for it, but it is a shame.

[Anonymous No.15370954]

>>15370949
You seem to be particularly irate about my post for no discernable reason.

[Anonymous No.15371386]

>>15370914
Toxoplasmosis maybe? Just kidding
>>15370802
I believe there's a link to an article somewhere in this thread where wolf pups were treated with a lot of human care and dog pups with minimal care and they still understood human directions better.
It's quite obvious when you try to point your cat and your dog to their bowl with your finger.
Dogs are canines that understand ape gestures, that's what I'm saying essentially

[Anonymous No.15371399]

>>15371386
>Dogs are canines that understand ape gestures, that's what I'm saying essentially
Well yeah. The quibble is with respect to "understand", as the whole "does the animal give a shit" thing factors into that a lot. Depending on the cat and the situation the answer can definitely vary is the issue, and I'm genuinely curious if anyone has managed to attempt disentangling the difference.

Either way, yes, a dog would be more likely to respond. Dogs represent greatly preserved neoteny and its related behavioral/cognitive features, and nonetheless even absent human socialization those "immaturities" such as curiosity ought make it more likely. So it is a worthwhile question to ask whether it is sensible to suppose something as vague as "ape gestures" are the phenotype or more sensibly "likelihood of caring by consequence of that curiosity" or something like that.

[Anonymous No.15371552]

>>15371399
We actually have a good test subjects for that I think: domesticated foxes.
Actually, there are 3 types of them: unsociable, tamed and domesticated.
I don't really know whether they have the same ability to recognise human gestures as dogs do since they were made in a short amount of time in a few generations, but still.

[Anonymous No.15371562]

>>15371552
Might not be domesticated "enough" but that does get closer to the notion of testing the idea. Don't know enough to know if there's an easier way since they don't exactly talk. Guess we'd just have to wait

[Anonymous No.15371593]

>>15370802
animal cognition "research" all relies on the human researcher's psychological projection.
get an idiot who presumes that they are no smarter than a dog and allow them to investigate and write papers and thats the field. not all that different from trannys who presume that women are just men with tits & a vagina.

[Anonymous No.15371619]

>>15317824
>the alphabet boys underestimate the cactus perimeter

[Anonymous No.15371670]

>>15371562
Well, the experiment is still going as far as I knowbso maybe in another 30 years it will be more likely.
I don't believe talking to them would help. On the contrary it would confuse the matter. One of the issues with studying humans is that they talk.

[Anonymous No.15371733]

>>15371670
>I don't believe talking to them would help. On the contrary it would confuse the matter. One of the issues with studying humans is that they talk.
Given it would be fairly effortless to then clearly be told "don't care" versus "don't understand" seems it would clear it up fairly easily. If anything the primary issue is hardly people talking, but rather researchers not listening. Same goes for studying animals and not listening to the animal. We seem to be at opposite ends of things.

[Anonymous No.15371825]

Zoomer biochemfag here in second bachelor year. Should I just quit school? I have no other academic talents out of biochemistry, so swapping degrees is not an option. Should I still bother with getting masters in 4 years and then spend another 5 years as assistant before getting into respectable position if there is very high likelihood of AI automating it before I even reach there?

[Anonymous No.15371882]

>>15371825
Only CEO's masturbate over the fever dream of being able to replace people like that. The more efficient the production the more people are required to tackle the harder problems now available to be solved. It's a stupid fucking meme.