Colonizing the Future

[Anonymous No.15303906]

So this thread is for discussing the development of the future in terms of both culture and infrastructure.


Cities in the ocean, Lunar settlements, orbital colonies, et cetera.

What is realistic, what is fantastic but still plausible?


To start the discussion off I contribute the fallowing;

1= Is there enough sunlight reaching Mars to grow crops in greenhouses or if it was terraformed?

2= If a colony was on Ceres would it receive enough sunlight or would they have to grow crops inside under artificial lighting?

3= Which moons of the outer system are suitable and which are unsuitable for colonized? For example, one source indicated that Jovan moon Io was inside the radiation belt so long-term inhabitation might not be viable. (How long would a person be able to be on the surface before radiation poisoning set in?)

[Anonymous No.15303913]

Well drat, I spotted two typos and have no way to edit the post.

:(

[Anonymous No.15303920]

>>15303906
Colonizing planets is dumb, and any permanent population on a different planet from Earth will become subhuman mutants. At best there will be robots on them. We would settle in space itself.

[Anonymous No.15303926]

>>15303906
We have no future.
But so long as we're talking purely hypothetical: how would discovery of a process that results in significant net energy gain affect the trajectory of space colonization?

[Anonymous No.15304010]

Lmao we can't even colonize deep into the desert.

[Anonymous No.15304039]

>muh escapist comic book soience fiction fantasy life
>muh power fantasies, i own the ocean and build cities on it
>no i cannot even change a flat tire in irl, but i totally know how to build a whole city
>i'm gooona live in space, just like muh superheroes in muh marvel comix moooooovies!!!

[Anonymous No.15304417]

>>15303906
>1= Is there enough sunlight reaching Mars to grow crops in greenhouses or if it was terraformed?
Sunlight is a little weaker but would be enough, the real problem is there are sandstorms that can last for a month.
Some artificial lightning seems difficult to avoid.
Real terraforming like a breathable atmosphere isn't really possible, but I wonder if melting the poles would actually stop those sandstorms.

>2= If a colony was on Ceres would it receive enough sunlight or would they have to grow crops inside under artificial lighting?
Don't think in earth terms, given the conditions it would be quite easy to increase sunlight with very cheap mirrors.
There is no atmosphere and gravity is low, a cheap lightweight reflecting structure is all you need.

[Anonymous No.15305071]

>>15303906
lunar settlement is plausible, it's a weekend trip to go there, there is also enough sunlight on the moon and you can grow crops in lunar soil

[Anonymous No.15305078]

>>15303920
But you still need to mine ressources to build and maintain your space habitats.

[Anonymous No.15306047]

>>15303920
The classical oneil cylinder is impractical.
If sunlight can get in then so can radiation.

A rotating cylinder would need to be enclosed in a sheath and the inside lit by artificial lighting.

Ironically the power source for the artificial lighting would most likely be solar.

[Anonymous No.15306128]

>>15303906
thinking very big I see. How about for starters ships with life support functionalities and cargo holds capable of allowing crews years of travel time. Not even some high tech, super academic science but regular industrialized space crews like prospectors, merchants and construction workers. Like the old ships that were used to reliably cross the oceans on months and year long trecks.

Mind you the ships themselves never enter any atmos but are pure vacuum vehicles. Currently even Starships, if they work perfectly as intended, cant fit that criteria. It would need basic orbital dockyards building them from materials worked bought to it

[Anonymous No.15306129]

>>15303906
Long term settlement on other planets is impossible for humans. Lack of earth ecology is a deal breaker. Even the day and night cycle has a significant effect on health.

In short, it is implausible with existing technology and even foreseeable ones for the next few hundred years.

[Anonymous No.15306563]

[Anonymous No.15306591]

>>>/lit/21833251

[Anonymous No.15306729]

Hopefully material science breakthroughs allow for larger structures to be built, longer lasting more monumental structures.

Space manufacturing if daddy Elon can get cost/kg to space to a reasonable level, then asteroid mining isn’t such a far stretch. Fuck the moon and mars, off earth metals would be way fucking easier and even more profitable. Imagine the reduction in co2 (for the free yards out there) you would get with obnoxious reductions in global mining operations.
(Personally I think keeping it PG and competitive at first would boost the development cycle for the tech needed but once we’re mining at scale and a few nations dip their toes into we gotta fr at least TRY to make some treaties and create the Dune style space OPEC of asteroid mining cuz fighting over it, the space wars for platinum outside the orbit of mars, pre asteroid belt. I see it now, it’s gonna fucking happen it doesn’t even take crazy tech)

Additionally, whenever we develop quantum computers at scale, and if we can match the development with a cost reduction in He2/N, paired with off earth rare metals, you could see them deployed at scale by the time I’m like 60, which desu boys ain’t a bad rap let’s be real. Once quantum computers are made and impact the development cycle of other tech is when I see our containment tech for fusion being actually efficient and achievable. Like I personally am a fan of Inertial Confinement but I mean let’s be real Wendelstein 7X looks like a goddamn covenant atom bomb from Halo 2 and I’m about it lmfao. I feel like ITER is a EU money laundering scheme but if it ends up doing something I’m also all for it, won’t knock working fusion one way or the other
I also am of the bent that if the team that successfully sustains a fusion reaction for more than 8 seconds DOESNT risk their lives leaking the data and design implementations to the world and scientists at large there is literally no hope for the world

[Anonymous No.15306756]

>>15306729
>>15306729
I also hope to god undersea mining doesn’t take off but fuck me it’s going to and it’s going to fuck so much shit in the asshole without anyone realizing it but hey, another point for asteroid mining stop picking the earths asscrack and try to grab one of the other floating rocks, bring back conqueror vibes on a global scale but just not earth shit, we vibe together and fuck around off planet.

Underwater cities 100% not a thing lmfao like, dude no. Make a use case for it besides how fucking cool it is. Cost, risk, additional cost to avert the risk, building materials that don’t exist yet so you’re not inflating costs by the amount of material you’d need with what’s available now, rising costs to capital - get someone to invest in that when they can sink money into the Saudi mega city (don’t give af what anyone thinks it’s doesn’t need to be anything it’s literally just a future city who cares what country the Saudi’s all like to party anyways we’re all fucked up Jesus Christ) so yeah underwater cities no

I don’t think Lunar or offworld settlements will be a thing until Biological tech and materials science apex to a point where you can efficiently create some Onions green type shit from rather raw, lightweight base minerals or nutrients. And also growing it like that at scale, I think once we mine asteroids everything else just falls into place and the biggest challenge for long term space travel is combatting the effects of zero G on the human body and growing food in zero G, sustainably, at scale, for long periods of time with limited materials. Like the efficiency of your system, just a few percentage points could be the difference between years vs months of potential trip time. So, that has to be on point don’t know what that looks like but I know that

[Anonymous No.15306759]

>>15306756
And seriously think about it, we mine asteroids, there is literally so goddamn much it doesn’t even matter who has it, it doesn’t matter what price, everyone knows how much it’s not like it’s even possible for anyone to “horde” it, or even worth fighting a war over, no one would even think about attacking another countries INSANELY FUCKING VALUABLE ASTEROID MINING RIG at the cost of getting their own, in turn, destroyed. Like no one’s fighting over it it’s all hands on deck and there is enough metal to start BUILDING and MANUFACTURING in zero G, and that’s where we really start to push the limits of our capacity to engineer as a species to our limits, and hopefully with quantum tech, break them.
And remember, Quantum tech is a scaling late game ability, it’s not much up front but by lvl 18 your a 20/0 season 8 kassadin and you’re ready to shove your dick into every planet and moons ass in the whole solar system.

Off earth metals gives us a chance to re-cultivate land, hopefully develop off earth waste disposal and chemical treatment in space might be tough at first but imagine metal processing and getting to send the byproducts DOWN to earth for use as base materials in fertilizer refinement???
Like dudes, how are we not fighting for this now the shit just solves so many issues in one shot and again, I truly believe it’s not as hard as it seems and for SURE is way close than most other big developments we hope to see like quantum computers, fusion, obnoxiously efficient batteries, etc.

[Anonymous No.15306767]

>>15305078
and?
you need to bring rocks, sand etc. out from the middle of nowhere to build cities with millions inhabitants
not to mention the consumables
there's not even a single country on planet that doesn't rely on imports (not even North Korea)

[Anonymous No.15306771]

>>15306756

[Anonymous No.15306792]

>>15306563
Bernal sphere not meant to be Earth-like environment with spin-gravity like O'Neil cylinder
it's supposed to be 0g
>but what about the health damage and bone embrittlement?
Bernal was a massive fucking commie transhumanist and didn't exactly believed in human form
if human body can't handle 0g, humans need to change, surgically or otherwise to fit the environment
he specifically described natural human body as mere "larva stadium"
his idea of perfect society was basically Combine from Half-Life

[Anonymous No.15306793]

>>15304010
The blackpill

[Anonymous No.15306915]

>>15304010
Israel, China and Lebanon did so. Desert greening is a 60 year old technique. It requires social discipline, technology and necessary ressources but if ao, you can green vast pastiche of deserts.
You can even colonize the ocean and create new coasts, look at Singapoore and Netherlands. What we need is energy surplus.

[Anonymous No.15307102]

>>15306047
What are mirrors.
About heat, what are radiators.
Expensive? With the current technology impossibly so, but it's going to change.

[Anonymous No.15307107]

>muh soience fiction fantasy live
cringe

[Anonymous No.15307604]

>>15306771
that seems generous to be honest. that whole wall of text screams "trender" to me

[Anonymous No.15307673]

>>15306792
>Bernal was a massive fucking commie transhumanist and didn't exactly believed in human form
Based

[Anonymous No.15308183]

>>15306915
It is superficial, and god knows how they are draining the ground water with well and water wasting plant or making the surface more salty with transported water.

[Anonymous No.15310136]

>>15306759
>it doesn’t even matter who has it
CN would object to anyone breaking their REE monopoly.

[Anonymous No.15311080]

>>15303906
>Cities in the ocean, Lunar settlements, orbital colonies, et cetera.
We already have oil platforms and sub surface diving bells used by divers. These are hardly described as comfy.

[Anonymous No.15311108]

>>15311080
There was tenochtitlan tho

[Anonymous No.15311346]

Ask ChatGPT

[Anonymous No.15311473]

>>15305071
But gravity is too weak. Your bones would wither away and you die from cancer you got from radiation coming from the sun lol. Guess again.

[Anonymous No.15311493]

>>15306759
I think asteroid mining is definately within the realms of reality. It gives humanity unlimited minerals too. Water. Obviously there are hurdles. But what if we took a small one and crashed into into the desolate parts of Australia? Boom. All the reocurces in the world.

[Anonymous No.15312196]

>>15311473
how do you know, nobody has been long enough there to get these effects, all of this would be worse in space habitats
also what radiation? if there is a moon colony you would not spend all day outside naked simpy because this is not possible

[Anonymous No.15312199]

>>15303906
>bugman soience fiction thread

[Anonymous No.15314025]

Looking for discussion on the idea of making a second moon.

What sort of complications would be involved in moving planetoids and oort cloud objects to a Lagrange point and fusing them together. Then making an internal habitat complete with ecosystem.

How would this affect the moon, and anything in the other L-points? At what point would the mass reach a critical point?

[Anonymous No.15314035]

>>15312196
I for one expect that a true lunar colony would be 98 percent underground precisely because of radiation problems et cetera.

The only parts above-ground would be the solar power arrays and the space=port.

[Anonymous No.15314066]

What about unrestricted AI?

[Anonymous No.15315461]

>>15303906

[Anonymous No.15315868]

>>15303906
>1= Is there enough sunlight reaching Mars to grow crops in greenhouses or if it was terraformed?
There is enough at Jupiter, where there is 5% sunlight. At Mars it's 40%.
On Earth, a regular sunny day has 100k lux. An overcast day has 1k lux.
Plants will grow like garbage on Callisto without orbital mirrors, but will grow just fine on Mars. As the other guy said, the sandstorms are a problem.
>>15314035
You expect that because you are an autist. Although your take is a bit less egregious than the dimwits that post we will live on Mars underground. Mars has a sky. People will want to see it. They will live against a cliff or in a valley with water in the attic, resolving the issue authoritatively.
The Moon doesn't have a sky, but we still will want to see the stars and Earth frequently. So not perma-underground. You are a mole if you think otherwise.

[Anonymous No.15315879]

The best way forward is orbital space colonies. Something that is actually achievable, Mars just isn't going to work unless we can terraform it.

We could easily start developing an orbital space colony above Earth, the ISS is pretty much a small scale space colony. It is something we can build on overtime, when we have perfected the technology and have years of research from humans living on one we could then think about building one to put in orbit around Mars and then take things from there.

I think we are jumping the gun by trying to colonise Mars.

[Anonymous No.15315916]

>>15315879
>I think we are jumping the gun by trying to colonise Mars.

Why Mars?
* incremental: probably the greatest advantage. To build substantial space habitats comparable to a small planetary colony, you need late 22nd century tech *and* a late 22nd century mobilizable industrial base, or even further into the future. We can start settling Mars, like any planetary body, with 2020s tech and industry.

* enthusiasm gap: conquering new worlds is romantic and the very core of human nature. Settling empty space is boring and uninspiring. You will not get a 10 year old aspiring to be the magnate/investor behind a new O'Neill cylinder or him wanting to be the civil engineer that designs it. The 10 y/o wants to be an astronaut, explorer, colonizer, frontierman.

* science gap: Mars is a scientifically valuable target. Infrastructure will be created for that reason alone. The locations of space habitats have no scientific value. The habitats themselves provide no more scientific value than a research/experimental station couldn't also provide.

* Mars can stay habitable without any human or AI intervention for 10 million+ years, until the atmosphere would be blown away. Perhaps a low-tech artificial magnetic shield solution could prevent this (something that requires minimal upkeep compared to one, let alone 10000+ O'Neill cylinders).

[Anonymous No.15316038]

>>15315916
Not saying we should rule out Mars altogether, just that at the point we are at now it isn't achievable.

I think that we would be better off focusing on orbital colonies which is a more realistic goal with the technology we have today. It is something we can develop over time and from there we could set an orbital colony above Mars and then slowly start to colonise and terraform it.

[Anonymous No.15316238]

>>15316038
Orbital colonies are more difficult than Mars colonies but self sustaining orbital colonies are easier than self sustaining Mars colonies. It's going to be a while before we can even start realistically thinking about anything off Earth being self sustaining, so Mars is a good first step, but some day will be seen like the Mayflower compared to a 787.
If you want to look truly far ahead, think of free floating, self sustaining colonies, drifting far beyond our planetary system.

[Anonymous No.15316284]

>>15316038
You don't need to terraform Mars to live on it. That is insane logic. You can just paraterraform a canyon: dome it over with a very thick tarp, then pressurize it.

[Anonymous No.15317157]

>>15315879
Economics, politics and military reason are the strongest reasons for colonization. If fusion reactors get online this century then Helium-3 mining on the moon and later gas giants will be the snowball to begin space industralization. Powers will want to maintain their resources thus built military complexes. To built those up you need ressources from the moon and around these construction space factories, habitats and research station will be built up. Adding to that would asteroid mining. The first habitats will be on the moon and Orbit, then expanding into the Belt, Trojans and Gas Giant moons. Mars hmoffers no economic or military gain but only potential political one, worse only is Venus. Terraforming will be deemed wasteful and in the long term unnecessary as humanity progress further into posthuman status.

[Anonymous No.15317173]

>>15316238
>muh soinence fiction fantasy life that was placed in my head by muh jewish hollywood comic book mooooovies
the IQ bracket for being unable to separate fact from on screen fiction is 80-110 IQ