/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.1527710]

Who built the LHC?
What kind of people actually put it all together and tested it all worked? ]
Who designed it?

>tl;dr - What kind of Engineers were they?

[Josef @lab !!nUf2NflSAyw No.1527716]

(gay jokes incoming)

[Anonymous No.1527718]

God did it.

[Anonymous No.1527724]

>hurr hurr Engineers are all gay, I'm not.

[Anonymous No.1527725]

>>1527716
>(gay jokes incoming)
great hardon collider

[Anonymous No.1527746]

>>1527710
>Engineers build LHC
LMAO, thats some funny shit

How do you figure that people who barely know math could build somthing so complicated?


Physicts build it. They made the plans, build the detectors, and most the the machine.
The only engineers involved were highered to do the grunt work, that the physicist didnt want to do.

[Anonymous No.1527758]

>>1527746

ENGLISH MOTHERFUCKER, DO YOU SPEAK IT?

Oh and, applied physics gets you an engineering degree. But anyway, it's ofcourse very interdisciplinair so you can't really say 'who built the LHC'. The only reasonable answer would be SMART PEOPLE LOL

[Anonymous No.1527760]

>>1527710

[Anonymous No.1527765]

>>1527758
>applied physics gets you an engineering degree

So R U Legally retarded?
Is it fun just making shit up?

[Anonymous No.1527773]

>>1527758

WTF?

ITT: 12 year old girl

[Anonymous No.1527800]

>>1527746
So "Physicts" built it? Designed it including selecting materials?

No Engineer was involved at any point in the design huh?

> ITT 14 year olds answer OP

[Anonymous No.1527808]

>>1527800
Material selection was done by chemists, and material scientists.

I already said, engineers just did the grunt work.They followed orders like the good little faggots they are.

[Boomer !!bcdVCSUmpgT No.1527809]

>>1527808
You're confusing engineers with technicians. Also, a physicist can be an engineer or a scientist.

[Anonymous No.1527829]

>What kind of people actually put it all together

Cheap labor hired by the lowest bidder. That's why it kept breaking down every time we tried to start it up.

[Anonymous No.1527836]

>>1527809
>>1527809
WTF? what backwards ass country are you from?

A physicist is a scientist, by definition. Often a physicist can do engineering, but they are still considered a scientist. To call a scienist an engineer is a fucking insult.

Even the most skilled physicist, performing engineering tasks, is still considered a scienist. To be called an engineer would be going a step backwards.

[Anonymous No.1527839]

>>1527829
>Cheap labor

Agreed, it was engineers who did the grunt work.

[Anonymous No.1527843]

An engineer, an experimentalist, a theorist, and a mystic, are asked to name the greatest invention of all times. The engineer chooses fire, which gave mankind power over matter. The experimentalist chooses the wheel, which gave mankind power over space. The theorist chooses the alphabet, which gave mankind power over symbols. The mystic chooses the thermos bottle. "Why?" the other ask. "Because it keeps liquids hot in winter and cold in summer." The others: "Yes, so what?" The mystic: "Think about it. That little bottle: how does it know?"

[Boomer !!bcdVCSUmpgT No.1527848]

>>1527836
Wow. First, not calling a scientist an engineer, they are clearly two different things. But a physicist can indeed be either. I know you're trying to troll, it's a good attempt, but you're just way too obvious with it. Tone it down a bit, try sliding in the things you mean to troll with as if they were what you really believed.

[Anonymous No.1527860]

>>1527848
I disagree with you, so I'm going to get butthurt and say your opinion is on par with the view of someone trying to troll

[Anonymous No.1527864]

>>1527848
WTF?
Are you telling me that you know of places,where you get a degree in physics from an engineering department?

[Anonymous No.1527871]

>>1527843
What is the difference between a physicist, an engineer, and a mathematician?

If a physicist walks into a room and sees a fire in the middle and a bucket of water in the corner, he takes the bucket of water and pours it eloquently around the fire and lets the fire put itself out.

If a mathematician walks into a room and sees a fire in the middle and a bucket of water in the corner, he convinces himself there is a solution and leaves.

If an engineer walks into a room and sees a fire in the middle and a bucket of water in the corner, he proclaims the fire is "fabulous". He proceeds to call other engineers and they pour the water all over themselves while fucking eachother in the ass.

[Anonymous No.1527882]

>>1527871
This.
Also, captcha is 'mined himself'

[Anonymous No.1527901]

>>1527871
>Top tier: law
wut

[Anonymous No.1528391]

So basically - nobody can answer OP's question with actual facts.

>Proof that science, without engineers is impotent.

[Anonymous No.1528435]

>>1528391
scientist designed made the LHC, not engineers

\thread

[Anonymous No.1528440]

>What kind of Engineers were they?

Nobody has answered this yet, eh? Mechanical, electrical and electronic engineers all work at CERN according to their website, along with physicists and computer scientists.

I'd assume a combination of all of those people made the LHC.

[Anonymous No.1528463]

>>1527746
>>1527746
>Physicists built the LHC

Yeah because physicists are great at designing and building things that actually work in real life... Physics is one of the least practical science degrees because most of it is theoretical.


Most likely it was a team effort between physicists, chemists, chemical engineers, and mechanical engineers.

[Anonymous No.1528468]

>>1528463

>> Physics is the least practical science

Ohyou.jpg

[Anonymous No.1528507]

>>1528440
Wow, you are a fucking retard

[Anonymous No.1528530]

>>1527710
Engineers No

Physicist, Material Scientist, and Construction workers built the LHC

[Anonymous No.1528543]

I see a lack of citations in the majority of posts in this thread.

Sadface.

Back your post up with evidence, retards.

[Anonymous No.1528546]

>>1527710
>Engineers?

Serious scientific organizations dont hire engineers for anything other then grunt work. Engineers fuck up way too much to be given any real responsibility.

We have an engineer in our lab, we dont let him touch anything. All he does is get the lunch orders. It is about the only thing they are good for.

[Guy with 9 bikes No.1528567]

>>1528463
I know (IRL) a physicist who works there. It's not like it was "built" and is now "finished". It's an on going thing. Sections are constantly being reconfigured as they conduct diferent experiments. He actually turns wrenches to rework parts of it.

[Anonymous No.1528569]

Aliens built the LHC. The same aliens that built the Egyptian pyramids, Mayan Temples and other useless shit.

[Anonymous No.1528577]

Everybody who answered OP's question without any source or research to back them up and still think they're scientifically-minded need to GTFO.

Fucking summerfags.

[Anonymous No.1528584]

>>1527710

How I imagine it would be:

- Scientists of some sort laid out the theory behind such machine.
- Scientists specializing in certain things made calculations and set the specifications for the parts.
- Engineers/technicians (mechanical, electrical etc.) manufactured the required parts.

You have to define "to build" really well here because, while engineers are not scientists, real scientists don't have a goddamn idea how to use a lathe and achieve what they're supposed to.

[Anonymous No.1528597]

>>1528546
>implying the lab you work in is anywhere near the same quality of peer group as the LHC

Also - Still no real answer to OPs question, just lots of butthurt scientists realising that without Engineers, they don't get to do shit.

[hi No.1528614]

>SCIENTISTS ARE BETTER THAN ENGINEERS WITH TEH GHEY

It's like you retards are arguing over whether or not wheels are more important than axles. They are both important, you dumb highschool fucks.

[oskar notrip @notebook No.1528625]

>>1527710
different parts were developed, prototyped,tested, improved and finally built at different countries and sites thoughout the world.

most work was done by physicists, some by electrical engineers and other engineers. the problem with a machine like the LHC, which pushes every known technology beyond its previous limits is that most engineers simply can't do it, they are too afraid of not getting the job done. really, us physicists do most stuff on our own.

i can give you a short example that i have witnessed in the office next door: we needed a specific microchip that could withstand a certain amount of radiation. the chip developers at our electrical-engineering department said they couldn't do it, even that our specs were impossible to fulfill.
now we have our own chipdesign guys - physicists of course.

[HEED No.1528630]

If you really want to know who funded the LHC, this man, Garibaldi Mansfield has donated a lot of his time and effort, including numerous Unobtanium crystals

[Anonymous No.1528639]

>>1528630

SWEET MOTHER OF GOD YOU'RE RIGHT

[hi No.1528653]

>>1528630
Beware of unforeseen consequences.

[Anonymous No.1528655]

>>1528597
I actually work at the LHC now.

Most people still use the engineers for grunt labor. Engineers are not in the Control rooms, and any place important.

The last time I saw an engineer was some faggot that was doing doing basic construction in the Library.

The LHC is mostly physicist, computer scientist, administrative types (bussiness).
We dont really have too many engineers (faggots)

[Anonymous No.1528656]

>now we have our own chipdesign guys - physicists of course.

Still awaiting actual answers with evidence of who did what, not anecdotes from bullshit artists.

[hi No.1528659]

>>1528653
Prepare for*
Brain fart.

[Anonymous No.1528661]

>>1528655
>computer scientist
very nice

[Anonymous No.1528666]

>>1528655

Sure buddy. So who exactly do you receive your paychecks from?

>inb4 some more awful trolling attempts from summerfag kids.

[Anonymous No.1528668]

well as long as the physicists remember the only reason their pipe dream isn't a pipe dream is because engineers did the work, that's all good

[Anonymous No.1528670]

>>1528659
But the chances of a resonance cascade are extremely low.

Also, captcha seems to think engineers did it. Pic related

[Anonymous No.1528671]

>>1527710
OP are you a troll? Or just retarded?
I dont know? Who builds experimental physics equipment? WHO THE FUCK COULD IT BE?
WHO WOULD HAVE THE EXPERTISE TO BUILD NEW PHYSICS STUFF? HUH?
If only there was a job? Like a physicist? Hmm?

YOU ARE A RETARDED FUCK!

[Anonymous No.1528673]

>>1528668

>> pipe dream

I c what u did thar

[Anonymous No.1528678]

>>1528673

whhoaaaa

I didn't, nice catch, I didn't even mean to do it

[Anonymous No.1528681]

physicists built it and here is why, engineers build things that business people can sell. Building the LHC is not profitable so it was for the development of scientific knowledge, aka, people who actually cared about scientific knowledge built it. That is why you are now convinced that physicists built it.

[Anonymous No.1528682]

You must be the janitor around there..

[Anonymous No.1528686]

>>1528666
I still recieve checks from the US through my university and through the DOE.

So are you really just a fucking retard? How has that been working out for you?

[HEED No.1528687]

gentlemen
gentlemen
Engineers and scientists must work together if society is to advance as a whole, the LHC will undoubtedly provide numerous technologies in the form of the gravity gun, anti-gravity, gravity plating, dark energy fusion, combine balls, and stasis fields. Try not to squabble over ridiculous arguments, we will have much work to do very soon

[Anonymous No.1528690]

>>1528655
>>1528655

see :>>1528682
>>1528682

[Anonymous No.1528692]

the majority of CERN is engineers. umad?
http://bit(dot)ly/cz8iTB page 48

[Anonymous No.1528699]

>>1528655
You're either trying too hard or not hard enough. I bet you are one of those people who think engineers run around with wrenches and helmets doing the dirty work.

How does it feel having wasted your time by studying "a real science" and not earning money with it at all?

[Anonymous No.1528701]

>engineers put it together

engineers might have developed and designed the associated basic infrastructure:

delivery of gasses, electrical distribution, electronics, etc.

all the doors, elevators, etc were all designed by engineers.

(those are all "off the shelf" designs anyway)


the LHC itself was designed, 100%, by physicists.


who did the welding, who drove the forklifts, etc?
technical degree graduates and long term experienced welders, electricians, network administrators...


the people who built it did not have even a bachelors level education.

[Anonymous No.1528707]

>>1528668
Yeah, and the only reason my office isnt dirty as fuck is becuase of janitors. WTF is your point?

Engineering, just like fastfood, or janitors, is still shit tier grunt work. Just becuase engineers knew how to follow orders, doesnt mean there contribution is noteworthy. No one gives a fuck about the little guys (engineers, construction workers, janitors, technicians).

[Anonymous No.1528726]

>>1528707
>Bitter science teacher detected.

I'm surpised anything at the LHC gets done at all, with the amount of /sci/ posting going on.

Still nobody has named names, given actual examples of who was brought in to make the theory (Scientists) come to life in the form of the LHC. Design or testing/construction.

One would think that with all the "in-house" knowledge and CERN employees that are here, someone could at least provide a link, or a name....

[Anonymous No.1528731]

>>1528707
So here's the deal. The "orders" that come from the physicists look somewhat like this.

"So uh, engineering dude... build us something that is capable of doing this and that and yeah... make it so!"

The engineer actually thinks about the design, works closely together with the people who came up with the idea, use the knowledge of the scientists and constructs something that actually works. A physicist would never been able to construct something like this upholding DIN EN ISO standards or anything like it.

So, I hope that tasted good, troll.

[Anonymous No.1528732]

>>1527864
1. go to colorado.edu
2. go to majors
3. find engineering physics
4. herp derp

[Anonymous No.1528738]

>>1528699
Feeling pretty good actually, working at the LHC, pay is great. Was just at the ICHEP conference in Paris, some very interesting physics going on. Life is pretty sweet....

How about you? How does it feel to do grunt work (engineering) all day? Do you ever get tired of people ordering you around? Do you like being a wage slave? Are you confortable with the gay sex?

[Anonymous No.1528743]

>>1528707

>Just becuase engineers knew how to follow orders, doesnt mean there contribution is noteworthy

> there

have you even graduated high school?

[Anonymous No.1528751]

>>1528743
Typical engineers, I forget how much faggots love grammer.

[Anonymous No.1528754]

>>1528738
see
>>1528726

>still no answers, even from the pretend LHC employees....

[Anonymous No.1528759]

>>1527710
If engineers made the LHC wouldnt be rainbow colored?

[Anonymous No.1528763]

>>1528751

Because Engineers are all gay and you guys are totally straight and knee deep in pussy right?

>lol.jpg

[Anonymous No.1528766]

>>1528751

typical high school drop out

jumps to conclusions...

[Anonymous No.1528767]

>>1528738
I find it hard to believe that people even let you near the LHC as you keep on babbling bullshit over and over.

My life is good, I have an amazing girlfriend, drive a decent car, live in a nice house, have money for hobbies, have friends I go out with and love the work I do!

You are probably some fat shit in first year of some shit college and you won't be doing anything noteworthy in your entire life!

You are a talented troll though, as I keep responding to your shit.

[Anonymous No.1528769]

>>1528754
wtf? Your question has been answered like 20 god damm times already!

You are just a troll OP! Some faggot (engineer) trying to make engineers look important. You are failing horribly.

[Anonymous No.1528774]

>>1528692

[Anonymous No.1528777]

how do you guys know that engineers are gay when that's just a theory (a guess)

[Anonymous No.1528779]

>>1528769
There is some mega asspain in that image.

[Anonymous No.1528786]

>>1528701
And who gets the blame when it's guts fall out like they did today?
http://op-webtools.web.cern.ch/op-webtools/Vistar/vistars.php?usr=LHC3

[Anonymous No.1528788]

>>1528767
>Engineer
>has girlfriend

Sorry bro, but gonna have to call bullshit on ya

[Anonymous No.1528794]

>>1528692

Cern Staff Figures:

Research physicists: 3%

Applied scientists
and engineers:38%


/thread

(So all 3% must be on this thread?)

[Anonymous No.1528801]

>this thread
engineers are awesome they actually get shit done while scientists just jackoff to their degrees all day

[Anonymous No.1528811]

>>1528625
9/10

[Anonymous No.1528813]

depends on the engineer and where they went to school.


some programs focus on application of knowledge. these people are more likely to get jobs actually building shit and running machines.

some programs focus more on theory, and these people are more likely to get jobs building or designing electronics and software.

at the Ph. D. level, it varies wildly....

outside of theoretical physics and experimental particle/astrophysics....

there is basically no delineation whatsoever between the engineering and physics disciplines.

go to any UC.

you will find just as many Engineering research groups working on theoretical quantum mechanical models of semiconductor charge transport, laser physics, biophysics, etc as physics groups.


indeed, in my 2nd basic physics course (I am a chemist, it was the "basic" physics series taken by all physics, engineering, chemistry, etc undergraduates) we had a professor say the following:

unless you want to do theoretical particle/astrophysics or experimental particle/astrophysics....

go into engineering or chemistry.

he said this straight up. he told us that more money is given to engineering and chemistry research groups in the following fields of study:

biophysics
semiconductor physics
nanotech
computational physics
laser physics


go to any UC. tell me which department has a larger research endowment?

the physics or engineering department?

(hint: the answer is the engineering department at all UC campuses)

[Anonymous No.1528817]

>>1528786
The LHC is fine, it is actually "off" more then it is "on". That is the usual behavor.

If you go to Page 1, the status is beam squeeze, ie eveything is fine. They are preparing for collisions.

If anything major happened info would be sent by email to the LHC commissioning, through the CERN hypernews. Nothing major/unusual has happened today.

[Anonymous No.1528825]

>>1527710
>>1528801
>Engineering?

What does homosex have to do with anything?

[Anonymous No.1528826]

Physicists -> design
Engineers -> operate (suck cocks if they are into that kind of thing)
Technicians -> maintain or carryout the labor

chain of command:
physicist -> engineer -> technician -> ...-> the guy in this thread claiming to work on the LHC
Yyou aren't going to have a bunch of physicists operating the LCH. The physicists are going to be the people trying to figure out how they want to use it or experiment with it. Then they tell the engineer what kind of specifications they need for their experiment and the engineer runs the LHC

Engineers are technical minded and physicists are more theoretically minded and abstractly minded. Physicists wouldn't want to learn the general ideas behind how to operate the LHC just the basic big picture behind the thing.

[Anonymous No.1528831]

>>1527710
ENGINEERING PRIDE~!

[Anonymous No.1528840]

>different parts were developed, prototyped,tested, improved and finally built at different countries and sites thoughout the world

this is basically the only true statement in this thread.


for example: many of Cern's specific silicon based detectors and photodiodes were actually made (from the ground up) by postdocs and graduate students at universities in europe, asia, and the US.


i mean, literally the same dudes that TA your classes built shit that is in cern.


of course, the work was overseen by postdocs, inspected, and tested, packaged, and shipped according to established procedures.


though I will admit there are about 10 times as many engineering postdocs/graduate students in our class 10 and class 1 clean rooms as physicists at any given time.
also semiconductors that are exposed to excessive radiation can never be made using the pinnacle of current photomask technology.


this is well known. the chips that are in satellites being built right have feature sizes no smaller than 100 nm

[ego !Kf4CB92wjo No.1528847]

>>1527710
Costs billions and they barely touched it, they got some basic results, a boner, and started researching - for what? to sit around all day writing obvious shit down. Find the shit, instead of worrying about how lazy you can be while you earn your paycheck.

[Anonymous No.1528849]

>>1528817
Earlier today there was an abrupt halt, ie: no ramp down of power. That was kind of major for them.

[Anonymous No.1528851]

>>1528826
>Engineers -> operate

Well that is just fucking wrong. All stations are operatored by physicists. All particle dectectors are usually operated by Physics Post Docs, or Phd students. Do you understand how things are set up in the control rooms? Do you know what a control room is?

[Anonymous No.1528868]

>>1528851

operation of machinery is a technical aspect. you would use a engineer to complete technical jobs. that's a fairly simple idea

why the fuck would they use phd students in the control room?

have you graduated high school?

[Anonymous No.1528870]

>>1528849
Ic? well I will just have to take your word for it.

I wasnt around a control room all day, and didnt really pay attention to the goings on. If it was something major, they will send an email explaining it sometime tonight.

[Anonymous No.1528881]

>>1528870
translation: i was cleaning toilets all day

[Anonymous No.1528895]

>>1528868


>implying that the control room contaims machinery


dude, this isnt 1908. we control COMPUTERS you fucktard.


engineers dont understand the physics, and would literally destroy the magnets and detectors if they were allowed to get their cum covered hands anywhere near the workstations

[Anonymous No.1528912]

>>1528868

the thing i'm trying to say is an engineer mind is more technically minded and a physicist/scientist is abstractly minded.

the physicist is motivated by overarching concept not managing some aspect of the LHC. honestly that sounds kind of boring once the novelty of working at the LHC dies off

[Anonymous No.1528922]

>>1528895

ugghhh seriously? you know that the computers control machinery right? or technical aspects of the LHC

if you gave that job to a physicist he would be bored as fuck

[Anonymous No.1528924]

ITT: 14 year old /b/ refugees argue about pointless shit they have no clue about

[Anonymous No.1528938]

>>1528895

nevermind you must be a troll or a highschool drop out

neither is worth my time

if you don't understand the thing that motivates a engineer (technical) or a physicist (the abstract)
then you clearly don't understand what you are talking about

[Anonymous No.1528951]

to OP: the glorious working class, of course

[Anonymous No.1528954]

>>1528868
Do you not understand how anything works?

Ok, I will start from scratch just for you. Do you know what a Control room is? Do you know about the different experiments? The different types of control rooms?

Most if not all of the parts of the LHC were built by differnet univsierties throught the world. They were designed and built mostly by physics Phd and grad students.

For each experiment and Beam, there is an associated control room. In the control rooms, there are stations set up for the various systems, sub-dectecors, etc.

These stations are run by "shifters". The shifter is (usually a postdoc or physics grad student) from one of the schools that build that particular part of the LHC. Sometimes it is a Physics Phd, if it is a very important station.

The shifters are literally "running the LHC". It is a rotataing job, so usually a grad students shifts maybe every month (shifts are usually 1 week long, but times vary). For instance, last month I did one regular "shift", one "expert shift" (24/7 on call), and one DAQ shift, Global Data aquisition. Shifting actually sucks balls, but is required.

You actually need to have a certain amount of "points" (obtained from shifts), to continue working at the LHC every year.

I would give you links but you do not have the access to see them.

[Anonymous No.1529078]

>>1528686
have you fucked some european bitches yet?

[Anonymous No.1529092]

>>1529078

>european bitches

There's a difference bethween a Spanish, German, Polish etc. bitch.

It's like a buffet, you can have whatever you want. Although, like food is food, a bitch is a bitch...no matter where she's from.

[Anonymous No.1529155]

>>1529078
Yeah, I fucked a really cute swiss chick last week. Two weeks before that I fucked a really hot french chick.

[Anonymous No.1529366]

>>1529155
>>1529092
>my face when nerds make up stories

[Anonymous No.1529605]

>>1529155
>Implying acne-ridden nervous virgins who play too much WoW get near to "hot european chicks" even when a) In Europe, b) Near European women.