Why do Libertarians claim to be in favor of scientific progress but hate the federal government which is a major contributor to scientific research? I doubt anyone in the private sector would want to spend an extremely large sum of money to send one person to the Moon, or make an Atomic bomb.

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Anonymous Sat Jul 31 15:26:29 2010 No.1523275 [Reply] [Original]

Why do Libertarians claim to be in favor of scientific progress but hate the federal government which is a major contributor to scientific research? I doubt anyone in the private sector would want to spend an extremely large sum of money to send one person to the Moon, or make an Atomic bomb.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 15:28:29 2010 No.1523284 File: 41 KB, 400x300, 1280092083791.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 15:31:29 2010 No.1523305 no, if housepets were libertarians, they'd be organizing books.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 15:36:29 2010 No.1523323 Libertarians are really just... stupid. All they do is complain about the government that looks out for them. "why tax this - why tax that." Oh look - New roads and books for school.

Anonymous Sat Jul 31 15:41:29 2010 No.1523342

I consider myself a libertarian, so here goes. Money that goes into research is a good thing. Scientists ass a whole tend to be open about what they find and share information to anyone who wants to look (albeit unintelligibly to those that can't read science). They generally don't hide anything. They also don't arrest you for smoking pot in your house or calling a craigslist whore over to suck you off. They don't assume they can wiretap your house because your name is some variation of Ahmed, or Mohammad. They don't break down a families door and shoot the family cockerspaniel because their may or may not be pot in the house. They don't execute men in Texas that they know to be factually innocent, And they certainly don't ask you to pay for all of that. They just want to hangout in a lab and play with beakers. I'm fine with that.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 15:42:29 2010 No.1523344 File: 72 KB, 505x375, 1278335145088.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1523275 Sure, it's cool, but really, resources are finite. You have to pick, you can't have everything.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 15:43:29 2010 No.1523346 >>1523275 Oh and using a fish tank as a model for your ideal society. Shooting yourself in the foot much.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 15:44:29 2010 No.1523350 I would consider myself slightly Libertarian. I don't hate the federal government, they are cool. I just hate a lot of the petty rules and regulations they come up with.

>>	Inurdaes !lololSGJBw Sat Jul 31 15:44:29 2010 No.1523352 File: 1.61 MB, 1920x1200, 1279312982472.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1523344 >resources are finite Not for us.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 15:47:29 2010 No.1523360 > I doubt anyone in the private sector would want to spend an extremely large sum of money to send one person to the Moon, or make an Atomic bomb. >I doubt anyone in the private sector would want to ... make an atomic bomb lolno

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 15:47:29 2010 No.1523363 >>1523352 Ok, fine. Maybe my statement wasn't the best formulation. How about this: the resources currently usable by us are finite. Is putting a man on the moon a wise use of them, or can we use them for something more valuable?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 15:48:29 2010 No.1523365 >>1523360 He's kinda >implying people having atomic bombs is a good thing

>>	Inurdaes !lololSGJBw Sat Jul 31 15:49:29 2010 No.1523370 >>1523363 ... GO TO MARS As soon as America's military budget is 30% of what it is now, I won't laugh at 'what's worth it'

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 15:50:29 2010 No.1523371 >>1523365 i think OP just said that because its a pretty major scientific thingy. And yeah, i'm pretty sure someone in the private sector would love to be able to produce atomic bombs

>>	Inurdaes !lololSGJBw Sat Jul 31 15:50:29 2010 No.1523372 >>1523365 They are, just not for their intended purpose.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 15:50:29 2010 No.1523375 >>1523360 the first atomic bomb cost about $2 Billion in 1945, or about $25 Billion in 2008 dollars. I am sure there are companies that would want to spend that much money on researching atomic weaponry.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 16:00:29 2010 No.1523409 TYPICAL LOLBERALS THINK THEY CAN JUST LEAVE EVERYTHING TO THEIR PRECIOUS NANNY STATE

‏ Sat Jul 31 16:02:29 2010 No.1523413

>>1523375
Companies? Spend money?

That's like getting blood from a stone, unless you can guarantee returns. There are a few that do potentially unprofitable research, but it's always directly related to their core business (at least, they're sure is.)

But spending billions on something that may never result in income? Never.

This post brought to you by reCaptcha and "162 buffalos"

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 16:03:29 2010 No.1523420 >>1523413 Good point. "Charity" is not in the dictionary of most Fortune 500 companies, unless that charity makes them look good.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 16:04:29 2010 No.1523425 >>1523420 We need the government to lead the way. I propose a tax hike.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 16:05:29 2010 No.1523431 >>1523420 Or allows them to save even more money via a tax loophole.

>>	‏ Sat Jul 31 16:06:29 2010 No.1523440 >>1523425 We already need huge tax hikes to pay off the corporate welfare doled out in the past 3 years, not to mention the not-quite-a-war-wars we have raging in the middle east.

Anonymous Sat Jul 31 16:17:29 2010 No.1523501

If science isn't profitable the real problem isn't capitalism, but people not valuing science. Fix that instead. Capitalism is the best system ever devised to produce what the masses want. If they don't want science, capitalism will not produce science. The problem when capitalism doesn't produce what you want it to produce isn't capitalism. The problem is people don't agree with you what should be produced.

Anonymous Sat Jul 31 16:20:29 2010 No.1523513
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>>1523501
>If science isn't profitable the real problem isn't capitalism, but people not valuing science. Fix that instead. Capitalism is the best system ever devised to produce what the masses want. If they don't want science, capitalism will not produce science.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 16:25:29 2010 No.1523544 File: 102 KB, 359x359, HURP DURP.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1523501

>>	FAGGATRON_3000 !U0FKfqmRjs Sat Jul 31 16:26:29 2010 No.1523551 damn /new/, you sneaky!

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 16:34:29 2010 No.1523604 File: 114 KB, 359x359, roflbot-xGn2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1523544

Anonymous Sat Jul 31 16:38:29 2010 No.1523627
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Where are these libertarian utopias? Most would claim America's Gilded Age in the 1800s. Completely oblivious to why it was called the Gilded Age: shiny on the outside, shitty underneath.

Current research and statistics show the best places to live are social democracies. Universal health care, publicly funded education, and social services all ensure a strong and stable society for future prosperity.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 16:38:29 2010 No.1523628 File: 22 KB, 340x330, two-women-laughing.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1523344 >He thinks domestic animals have a high survival rate in the wild.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 16:42:29 2010 No.1523638 >>1523627 >social democracies Social democracy is pig disgusting. Democratic socialism is where it's at.

Anonymous Sat Jul 31 16:50:29 2010 No.1523670

Anarcho-Capitalist here
The problem isn't what the government does with the money but how it acquires it. Taxation, the initiation of the use of force on innocent people. If you want to contribute to science do so with your own money. Why should I be forced to contribute to science if I don't want to?

Purity Stu Sat Jul 31 16:50:29 2010 No.1523671

this is why scientists are considered the worst people to deal with by politicians and anyone without a completely deluded brain

1) they, more often than not, believe research and scientific progress is an end within itself, 2) they act logically in the space of neutral logic rather than human logic, and 3) they are self-absorbed and say they are not

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 16:51:29 2010 No.1523675 File: 20 KB, 285x281, 1258412767855.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1523670 > this is what capitalists actually believe

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 16:51:29 2010 No.1523677 >>1523670 there are so many logical flaws with anarcho-capitalism and your post that i'm simply going to assume your a troll

Anonymous Sat Jul 31 16:54:29 2010 No.1523689

>>1523627
Except that, in the US, ANYTHING that is done by the government or by a "public" entity costs a shit-ton more than if it were done privately. Private schools cost less per-student (by which I mean, are more efficient with their spending) AND have higher (competitive) wages for teachers. Same with roads, water, health care...Most of those things can be done far better privately, or at least outsourced to a private company.

And, while I consider myself a national Libertarian, I'm not at all opposed to government projects...as long as its local or state projects. The federal government doesn't even have the authority to do 80% of the stuff that it does. THAT's my main objection. What California or New York does, as stupid as it may be from a liberty standpoint, is none of my business.

They wanna drive away their business? Their problem. We shouldn't have to support their mistakes either, though. Most people don't realize just how big the United States is...

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 16:56:29 2010 No.1523695 File: 38 KB, 562x437, 1259714847758.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1523689 >this is what libertarians actually think

Anonymous Sat Jul 31 17:00:29 2010 No.1523706

>>1523695
I'm not saying that it costs more for the government to run schools and the like in, say, Europe, or small countries with more socialist-leaning policies, but the United States cannot do anything right when it's run by the government, and spend at least 1.5 times the amount that it costs private industries to do the same.

Socialism works fantastically. On a small scale. Individual states are free to (and DO) enact state-wide health care programs, etc, much in the way that individual EU countries do, but the United States, as a whole, would not be able to do a national health care program with any efficiency (or transparency) whatsoever.

Then again, you're probably just a troll, or one of those angsty pro-government college kids.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 17:03:29 2010 No.1523717 >>1523706 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Articles_of_Confederation tl;dr tried your model (states with more power than the fed), the US fell apart.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 17:04:29 2010 No.1523723 >>1523342 >Science ass a whole girls laughing.jpg

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 17:04:29 2010 No.1523727 >>1523706 >implying state corruption and power abuse isn't more wide spread then federal corruption

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 17:05:29 2010 No.1523728 >>1523706 >angsty pro-government college kids ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS

Anonymous Sat Jul 31 17:06:29 2010 No.1523738

>>1523717
No no no, I'm more supportive of what the US was like during its early years. Not THAT early, but still early.

The federal government shouldn't be powerless, but they have far, farrr too much power right now. And spend way too much, but that goes without saying.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 17:08:29 2010 No.1523741 >>1523727 Depends on the state, really. It's a lot easier to change state politicians than it is to change federal ones, though.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 17:09:29 2010 No.1523745 >>1523741 [citation needed]

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 17:10:29 2010 No.1523751 File: 17 KB, 256x353, laughing elf man.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1523738 "They have way too much power," says the kid talking shit about the federal government on the Internet.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 17:13:29 2010 No.1523753 >>1523728 There are many more angsty liberal fags at college, than anarchist fags.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 17:16:29 2010 No.1523759 >>1523753 > tacitly saying liberals are more educated

Anonymous Sat Jul 31 17:17:29 2010 No.1523768

>>1523344

>statists

I have never heard someone use this word other than Libertarians

Is it like some kind of strawman you can use to feel superior to? Since the vast majority of the human population does no object to the idea of living in a state, a libertarian could feel superior to 99.99% of other people.

Reminds me of that poll we had a while back where most of /sci/ thinks of themselves as better than other people.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 17:21:29 2010 No.1523776 >>1523275 I think it messed up there. Those pets are clearly conservatives.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 17:22:29 2010 No.1523779 >>1523759 I'm an anarchist why would I be trying to imply that? It's a fact that college political demographics show there are more liberals than anarchists.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 17:23:29 2010 No.1523785 File: 12 KB, 243x248, Screen shot 2010-07-20 at 6.23.14 PM.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] most scientists (66%) say the are either liberal or very liberal.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 17:25:29 2010 No.1523794 File: 19 KB, 423x337, Screen shot 2010-07-31 at 5.27.22 PM.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] the federal government is the #1 source of funding for the natural sciences

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 17:26:29 2010 No.1523801 Because libertarians fail at basic logic.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 17:26:29 2010 No.1523804 File: 15 KB, 313x313, Screen shot 2010-07-31 at 5.28.41 PM.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] natural scientists get more money from the fed gov't than private sources

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 17:26:29 2010 No.1523805 I'm not a fan of our military budget, but I think a lot of the things done by corperations are far, far worse. I'd rather have a more open society than a more closed one.

Anonymous Sat Jul 31 17:29:29 2010 No.1523825
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Money, not morality, is the principle commerce of civilized nations.
Thomas Jefferson

My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government.
Thomas Jefferson

Don't mind me, just being the best president in US History.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 17:32:29 2010 No.1523843 >>1523825 History tells me that Jefferson had slaves. Your post: does not like to much authority, but then appeals to authority. I had to laugh.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 17:38:29 2010 No.1523865 >>1523825 >Don't mind [Jefferson], just being the best president in US History. lolno

Anonymous Sat Jul 31 17:39:29 2010 No.1523867

>>1523843

It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. A principle which if acted on would save one-half the wars of the world.
Thomas Jefferson

It is more dangerous that even a guilty person should be punished without the forms of law than that he should escape.
Thomas Jefferson

It is neither wealth nor splendor; but tranquility and occupation which give you happiness.
Thomas Jefferson

It is our duty still to endeavor to avoid war; but if it shall actually take place, no matter by whom brought on, we must defend ourselves. If our house be on fire, without inquiring whether it was fired from within or without, we must try to extinguish it.
Thomas Jefferson

It takes time to persuade men to do even what is for their own good.
Thomas Jefferson

Leave all the afternoon for exercise and recreation, which are as necessary as reading. I will rather say more necessary because health is worth more than learning.
Thomas Jefferson

Leave no authority existing not responsible to the people.
Thomas Jefferson

Mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.
Thomas Jefferson

Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains.
Thomas Jefferson

Money, not morality, is the principle commerce of civilized nations.
Thomas Jefferson

My only fear is that I may live too long. This would be a subject of dread to me.
Thomas Jefferson

My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government.
Thomas Jefferson

Never put off till tomorrow what you can do today.
Thomas Jefferson

Never spend your money before you have earned it.
Thomas Jefferson

Don't mind me, just being the best president in US History.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 17:40:29 2010 No.1523873 File: 227 KB, 642x1083, politics.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 17:42:29 2010 No.1523883 File: 37 KB, 533x594, lol_wut.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1523867 lol wut?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 17:42:29 2010 No.1523885 captcha: squids commandant,

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 17:45:29 2010 No.1523901 Lot of founding fathers were salve owners as well

Anonymous Sat Jul 31 17:51:29 2010 No.1523930

>>1523901

>salve owners

You do know the history behind Jefferson and "salves" right? He tried to make it an amendment unfortunately it never got in.

It's a sad day when Americans forget what our Founding Fathers taught us.

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
Thomas Jefferson

The way to silence religious disputes is to take no notice of them.
Thomas Jefferson

The whole commerce between master and slave is a perpetual exercise of the most boisterous passions, the most unremitting despotism on the one part, and degrading submissions on the other. Our children see this, and learn to imitate it.
Thomas Jefferson

The world is indebted for all triumphs which have been gained by reason and humanity over error and oppression.
Thomas Jefferson

There is a natural aristocracy among men. The grounds of this are virtue and talents.
Thomas Jefferson

There is not a sprig of grass that shoots uninteresting to me.
Thomas Jefferson

There is not a truth existing which I fear... or would wish unknown to the whole world.
Thomas Jefferson

Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty.
Thomas Jefferson

To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.
Thomas Jefferson

To penetrate and dissipate these clouds of darkness, the general mind must be strengthened by education.
Thomas Jefferson

Truth is certainly a branch of morality and a very important one to society.
Thomas Jefferson

Don't mind me, just being the best president, ever.

Anonymous Sat Jul 31 17:53:29 2010 No.1523938

When a man assumes a public trust he should consider himself a public property.
Thomas Jefferson

When angry count to ten before you speak. If very angry, count to one hundred.
Thomas Jefferson

When we get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, we shall become as corrupt as Europe.
Thomas Jefferson

When you reach the end of your rope, tie a knot in it and hang on.
Thomas Jefferson

Whenever a man has cast a longing eye on offices, a rottenness begins in his conduct.
Thomas Jefferson

Whenever the people are well-informed, they can be trusted with their own government.
Thomas Jefferson

Whenever you do a thing, act as if all the world were watching.
Thomas Jefferson

Where the press is free and every man able to read, all is safe.
Thomas Jefferson

Wisdom I know is social. She seeks her fellows. But Beauty is jealous, and illy bears the presence of a rival.
Thomas Jefferson

Don't mind me.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 17:56:29 2010 No.1523953 Libertarians are a delusional bunch. Those that like science will tell you that people would give money to science on their own volition. It goes without saying that libertopia would slow down scientific progress significantly.

>>	http://www.let.rug.nl/usa/P/tj3/writings/brf/jefl41.htm Anonymous Sat Jul 31 17:57:29 2010 No.1523963 >>1523867 Whenever there are in any country uncultivated lands and unemployed poor, it is clear that the laws of property have been so far extended as to violate natural right. Thomas Jefferson

Anonymous Sat Jul 31 17:59:29 2010 No.1523973

>>1523953

Don't talk about what you have done or what you are going to do.
Thomas Jefferson

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
Thomas Jefferson

When we get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, we shall become as corrupt as Europe.
Thomas Jefferson

I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
Thomas Jefferson

No freeman shall be debarred the use of arms.
Thomas Jefferson

A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.
Thomas Jefferson

I cannot live without books.
Thomas Jefferson

Don't mind me.

Anonymous Sat Jul 31 18:02:29 2010 No.1523996

A Bill of Rights is what the people are entitled to against every government, and what no just government should refuse, or rest on inference.
Thomas Jefferson

A coward is much more exposed to quarrels than a man of spirit.
Thomas Jefferson

A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks.
Thomas Jefferson

A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.
Thomas Jefferson

Advertisements contain the only truths to be relied on in a newspaper.
Thomas Jefferson

All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.
Thomas Jefferson

All, too, will bear in mind this sacred principle, that though the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will to be rightful must be reasonable; that the minority possess their equal rights, which equal law must protect, and to violate would be oppression.
Thomas Jefferson

Always take hold of things by the smooth handle.
Thomas Jefferson

An association of men who will not quarrel with one another is a thing which has never yet existed, from the greatest confederacy of nations down to a town meeting or a vestry.
Thomas Jefferson

Don't mind me.

Anonymous Sat Jul 31 18:02:29 2010 No.1523998

The best engine in the world is the vagina. I can be started with one finger. It is self-lubricating. It takes any size piston. And it changes its own oil every four weeks. It is only a pity that the management system is so fucking temperamental.
Thomas Jefferson

Don't mind me.

Anonymous Sat Jul 31 18:03:29 2010 No.1524000

An enemy generally says and believes what he wishes.
Thomas Jefferson

An injured friend is the bitterest of foes.
Thomas Jefferson

As our enemies have found we can reason like men, so now let us show them we can fight like men also.
Thomas Jefferson

Be polite to all, but intimate with few.
Thomas Jefferson

Bodily decay is gloomy in prospect, but of all human contemplations the most abhorrent is body without mind.
Thomas Jefferson

Books constitute capital. A library book lasts as long as a house, for hundreds of years. It is not, then, an article of mere consumption but fairly of capital, and often in the case of professional men, setting out in life, it is their only capital.
Thomas Jefferson

But friendship is precious, not only in the shade, but in the sunshine of life, and thanks to a benevolent arrangement the greater part of life is sunshine.
Thomas Jefferson

Commerce with all nations, alliance with none, should be our motto.
Thomas Jefferson

Conquest is not in our principles. It is inconsistent with our government.
Thomas Jefferson

Delay is preferable to error.
Thomas Jefferson

Dependence begets subservience and venality, suffocates the germ of virtue, and prepares fit tools for the designs of ambition.
Thomas Jefferson

GREATEST PRESIDENT EVER!

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 18:03:29 2010 No.1524001 >>1523825 >>1523867 >>1523930 >>1523938 >>1523953 >>1523973 He mad

Anonymous Sat Jul 31 18:05:29 2010 No.1524013

>>1523998

I'm pretty sure that joke begins "A notable gynaecologist once said,"

Determine never to be idle. No person will have occasion to complain of the want of time who never loses any. It is wonderful how much may be done if we are always doing.
Thomas Jefferson

Difference of opinion is advantageous in religion. The several sects perform the office of a Censor - over each other.
Thomas Jefferson

Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it.
Thomas Jefferson

Do you want to know who you are? Don't ask. Act! Action will delineate and define you.
Thomas Jefferson

Don't talk about what you have done or what you are going to do.
Thomas Jefferson

Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty.
Thomas Jefferson

Enlighten the people generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body and mind will vanish like evil spirits at the dawn of day.
Thomas Jefferson

Errors of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it.
Thomas Jefferson

Every citizen should be a soldier. This was the case with the Greeks and Romans, and must be that of every free state.
Thomas Jefferson

Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of the people alone. The people themselves are its only safe depositories.
Thomas Jefferson

Experience demands that man is the only animal which devours his own kind, for I can apply no milder term to the general prey of the rich on the poor.
Thomas Jefferson

Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.
Thomas Jefferson

Don't mind me.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 18:05:29 2010 No.1524016 >Libertarian fails to make his case >Goes into zealous stupor and spits out quotes from long dead prophets Typical.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 18:06:29 2010 No.1524021 Typical lolberals ignoring Jefferson.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 18:10:29 2010 No.1524039 >>1524021 Jefferson lived in a vastly different time. Technology, philosophy, psychological and sociological developments, and history have changed the fundamentals of how the world functions.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 18:10:29 2010 No.1524041 File: 1.80 MB, 2400x3300, thomasjefferson1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Sorry I couldn't hear you. I was too busy preserving freedom in these United States of America before I passed away.

Anonymous Sat Jul 31 18:13:29 2010 No.1524058
File: 18 KB, 325x390, thomasjefferson2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>1524039

While all those things might change, freedom never changes. Why did the Rome fall? They expanded their empire, inflated too much, and their society fell from the inside.

Just because we have electricity and many modern inventions and innovations nowadays doesn't mean we should incorporate these ancient ideas.

Freedom is a relatively new political ideology not socialism.

I must turn in my grave now.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 18:20:29 2010 No.1524107 File: 38 KB, 380x240, deal with it dog.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Sorry, Libertarians, but there is no such thing as freedom.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 18:21:29 2010 No.1524114 Not anymore there isn't.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 18:23:29 2010 No.1524123 File: 14 KB, 329x353, Somalia-CIA_WFB_Map.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I'll just leave this here.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 18:24:29 2010 No.1524126 >>1524114 Anymore. Pick up a history book, these are the best times any human has ever had.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 18:26:29 2010 No.1524140 File: 198 KB, 766x615, 1280383931865.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Sat Jul 31 18:26:29 2010 No.1524143

>>1524123

>best times anyone has had

Ugh, look about 200 years ago when we weren't in constant recessions that keep coming back every few years.

Eventually the US economy will fall and we're going to have to do something about it. The dollar is about to break.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 18:28:29 2010 No.1524153 >>1524143 200 years ago three-fourths of the country worked on farms.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 18:29:29 2010 No.1524158 polit/ics/, when /sci/ gets ass backwards, stops demanding citations, and stops using logic All of you arguing in this thread, >>>/new/ is that way

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 18:30:29 2010 No.1524168 >>1524153 200 years ago, people had jobs. /thread

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 18:34:29 2010 No.1524186 >>1524168 Jobs that were either: A) Backbreaking labor on a farm by day, gouged by the railroad tycoons by night. B) 12 hour work-shifts in an unsafe mill by day, crowded and unsuitable living conditions by night

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 18:36:29 2010 No.1524192 >>1524186 200 years ago they had jobs. /thread

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 18:38:29 2010 No.1524203 >>1524168 200 years ago, people with shitty city jobs in what is now the First World disposed of their shit by dumping it into piles on the street.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 18:39:29 2010 No.1524208 >>1524203 They had jobs. /thread

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 18:39:29 2010 No.1524210 >>1524192 You do realise, you actually could go and work in the fields? normally they employ mexicans but they never turn a tru american down.. I'm not fucking kidding, go find a farmer and get a job picking veggies.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 18:43:29 2010 No.1524230 File: 46 KB, 450x600, oh chicken strip.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1524208 >I'll keep repeating myself until you shut up

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 18:43:29 2010 No.1524231 >>1524210 Who had jobs? They had jobs. Albeit it they're not as technologically advanced as us today. But if we followed the constitution, we could have jobs provided by the free market. /thread

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 18:43:29 2010 No.1524233 people have jobs today. there are more people employed today than lived in the entire US 200 years ago. stupid faggots.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 18:44:29 2010 No.1524238 >>1524230 I bet you that gentleman in the poster doesn't have a job. It's not because he's black, it's because socialism has NO JOBS

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 18:45:29 2010 No.1524243 >>1524233 That's because there are tons more people here today then there were back then. But at least those few people back then had jobs. /thread

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 18:45:29 2010 No.1524249 >>1524243 people today have jobs. and don't die from cavities or small pox. >>>/b/

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 18:49:29 2010 No.1524263 >>1524249 9.6% unemployment rate. Doesn't include people not looking for jobs. Sorry, but this century has no jobs. /thread

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 18:51:29 2010 No.1524272 File: 126 KB, 450x373, 1256762049480.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1524263 >posts unemployment rate in the US 10 years into century, makes claim about entire century >my face when /b/ tries to troll to hard

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 18:51:29 2010 No.1524274 File: 36 KB, 262x273, reactionbaby.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1524238 >Blah blah blah SOCIALISM IS BAD MMMKAY >>1524243 >I support people working in sweatshops for pennies a day under the shittiest conditions of work and home life!

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 18:53:29 2010 No.1524284 >>1524272 >>1524274 Oh and the past century has no jobs. Check and mate authoritarians. /thread

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 18:53:29 2010 No.1524289 File: 19 KB, 430x490, 1spiraltorusknot.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1524284

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 18:55:29 2010 No.1524296 >>1524289 I might be mad, but hey at least I'm right. The past 2 centuries have, no jobs. /thread

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 18:58:29 2010 No.1524302 File: 141 KB, 360x598, 1279166837582.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1524296

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 19:02:29 2010 No.1524322 >>1524302 Those two gentlemen in the picture seem to not have jobs. If only they lived 2 centuries ago with free market economics. /thread

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 19:02:29 2010 No.1524324 >>1524302 second

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 19:04:29 2010 No.1524327 This thread has convinced me to vote democrat this fall.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 19:04:29 2010 No.1524328 >>1524324 But the 19th century was first for having jobs. /thread

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 19:05:29 2010 No.1524330 >>1524328 Also a good time to die in poverty, of polio, or as a new born. Things that are no longer a major problem

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 19:07:29 2010 No.1524339 >>1524330 Those things aren't major problems, but jobs are now. The last two centuries have no jobs. /thread

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 19:09:29 2010 No.1524347 >>1524339 I have a job, ergo jobs exist It is within the last two centuries and I have said job, ergo the last two centuries have jobs

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 19:10:29 2010 No.1524348 >>1524347 10% unemployment rate and climbing. This century has no jobs. /thread

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 19:13:29 2010 No.1524361 >>1524348 what about the other 90%? They don't count, also worth noting that this is only an issue after companies, not the government, moved manufacturing elsewhere, while the government actually works to fund and create jobs

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 19:14:29 2010 No.1524367 Anarcho-syndicalism is the future.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 19:15:29 2010 No.1524371 >>1524367 >>1524361 You guys sound jobless. /thread

>>	None !LightPenis Sat Jul 31 19:29:29 2010 No.1524427 File: 99 KB, 650x483, nix bood.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 19:35:29 2010 No.1524458 File: 17 KB, 212x326, john_maynard_keynes.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1523867 >Never spend your money before you have earned it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 19:38:29 2010 No.1524475 >>1524371 >>1524371 type /thread think it means that you have won an argument or it makes your pointless gibberish about the last two centuries valid

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 19:39:29 2010 No.1524478 >>1524475 Well with that typing you do, you can find a job for typi- Oh wait. You can't. /thread

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 19:43:29 2010 No.1524505 >>1523689 ANYTHING that is done by the government or by a "public" entity costs a shit-ton more than if it were done privately This is what libertarians actually believe.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 19:43:29 2010 No.1524506 File: 99 KB, 448x458, 1260408750892.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1524478 You say you're trolling, I say you're a faggot with too much time on his hands. pic related

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 19:43:29 2010 No.1524508 Did we defeat the lolbertarians?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 19:44:29 2010 No.1524510 >>1524478 >ad hominem and baseless attacks will make my points seem valid

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 19:45:29 2010 No.1524512 >>1524508 You don't defeat them until you defeat the culture of greed and self-entitlement that breeds them.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 19:47:29 2010 No.1524522 >>1524508 No, both sides got are just as sure of their position as they were before, no one else has bothered to read the thread, and many trolls were successful.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 20:40:29 2010 No.1524788 File: 45 KB, 450x297, 1280257711283.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 31 22:09:29 2010 No.1525430 Bump and I trol u.

>>	sage Sat Jul 31 23:59:29 2010 No.1525995 correspond carr

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/sci/ - Science & Math