/sci/ - Science & Math

[I set my hand on fire and it was fun No.1523076]

Fuck you thread-deleters.

Stealth in space isn't realistic. If you're going to magically wave your hands about "A Cloaking Device" or "Hide in the background radiation" then you'd best explain how, or just fess up and be proud in your technobabble.

[Anonymous No.1523082]

OP from the other thread
I deleted the thread because the guy you were arguing with was fucking retarded, and the thread was completely off topic
Quit whining

[I set my hand on fire and it was fun No.1523080]

>>1523015
>Either way they still see you but maybe can't line up a relativistic weapon shot in time.
The instant you maneuver they'll see your engine flare and track you in real time. Your position, velocity, and acceleration are immediately apparent; this also leads to No Decoys In Space. Also your mass, engine performance, and fuel isotopes (Manufacturer, craft type, and port of call) can be determined. And if you aren't maneuvering, anyone who's seen you and knows your velocity can hit you with anything they want to. Firing solution ftw.
>If you can see the enemy ship,
This is the problem. If there is one ship, AND you know where he is, maybe you could radiate heat. Suppose there are more of them? Any useful ship would do more than just kill other ships in single duels. There's one you can see, but maybe he has remote pods that wait until they see another heat signature. Or your goal is to enter a place with a patrolling group of ships. You're shit outta luck. Any interesting action you take will either take a loooooooong time, or broadcast everything about you. If you fall in from ages out, let's hope your aim's right, and that you can store the heat.

[I set my hand on fire and it was fun No.1523091]

>>1523082
I honestly forgot that you were talking about unrealistic things for NASA to do, rather than physically unrealistic things for spaceships to do. What does deleting a conversation accomplish?

Anyway, NASA isn't the way to make it to space.

[I set my hand on fire and it was fun No.1523084]

>>1523015
>Sync your output with background radiation.
In space? There isn't really much, and that's the problem.
>maneuver so a large energy source is always behind your.
Why do you bitches keep assuming that there is only one ship? Anyway, you'll still stand out plainly. Why? Because suddenly a 'radiation source' (star or something) looks like a 300K object instead of a 6000K object. And the second patrol ship will see you easily.
>Or, your could channel heat output into a heatsink and dispose of it periodically like a cartridge
I'm gonna guess that you're using a heatsink to crank up the temperature of the slugs? 5 to 1. And the energy to run the heatsink is still coming from your ship, so you're making more heat to store less heat and even if it works it woulnd't work very well. The ONLY advantage to this is that you could use these hot lumps of whatever to maneuver slightly. But each one you drop advertises your presence and position moments ago. Is that wise for 'stealth?' And when you run out?

>>1523016
>/sci/ is just trolls trolling trolls trolling trolls etc etc.
Not me!

[Anonymous No.1523108]

>>1523080
Look, I know. I'm the one who suggested that website about stealth being impossible, I read why this stuff is a token measure at best.
Still, it's not a bad idea to pulse your engines quickly and attempt to keep your radiation facing away from where they think you are.

[I set my hand on fire and it was fun No.1523128]

>>1523108
That's sketchy at best...but desperate times and such. Any ship maneuvers are transparent and reveal a lot about the ship though.

I think it would help immeasurably for investors to see the payoffs possible. Manufacture of things that cannot be made on Earth, for one. The biggest problem, currently, is finding a cheaper way to have material in orbit. Either better launching, or getting it from Up There. Landing things on Earth isn't so hard, but the Space Shuttle is about the worst way we can manage to get off the ground that actually works.

For a kilogram to reach escape velocity requires that it reach 11.2 km/sec, with some extra to leave the atmosphere. That's plain old M*v, while lifting that mass straight up most of the way takes about 1500 times as much energy. Space Shuttle: Doing It Wrong since 1981.

[Anonymous No.1523150]

>>1523128
There is a list somewhere of the cost per gram of space flights and it's astronomical, damn right pun intended. But I'm not sure what we can do to improve space hauling from here.
There's no doubt in my mind that any appreciable spacecraft needs to be build in space. A spacecraft needs to sacrifice a laughable amount of abilities just to be able to take off from earth, in fact it would probably need to be able to carry double the amount of fuel compared to a space-only ship. That means we need efficient methods of hauling shit up there.

[Anonymous No.1523159]

Any ship will stand out like a star against the 3K background in infrared. You don't even need to fire your engines.

[Anonymous No.1523172]

>>1523128
are you trying to imply that the space shuttle flys straight up?

[I set my hand on fire and it was fun No.1523181]

>>1523159
Yes we know. I think a picture from Eve Online drew some...characters to the old thread.
>>1523150
Bulk launching of goods from Earth in various catapults - I'm not sure which designs are best because each of them involve a lot of optimistic assumptions to work. My dad goes on at great length about counterweight-driven launchers going up mountains...he's an odd guy.

[I set my hand on fire and it was fun No.1523189]

>>1523172
>are you trying to imply that the space shuttle flys straight up?
No, but it starts out that way. I don't know the math to calculate the energy cost of its flight path, but it looks like ugly stuff for a Saturday afternoon. It's kind of a shame to start with shit-tons of fuel at rest, and then start burning it.

[Anonymous No.1523188]

what if a ship was coated in black holes?

[I set my hand on fire and it was fun No.1523191]

>>1523188
>what if a ship was coated in black holes?
You're silly. Here
>http://www.nickjr.com/dora-the-explorer/

[Anonymous No.1523195]

>>1523189
>It's kind of a shame to start with shit-tons of fuel at rest, and then start burning it.
>at rest

OF COURSE

GIANT ELECTROMAGNETIC ACCELERATOR

[I set my hand on fire and it was fun No.1523204]

>>1523195
Electromagnets? Lol. Hell, put the damn thing on a cart going up an equatorial mountain and get it up to 100 mph.

[Anonymous No.1523207]

>>1523204
Yeah we could always do it the dull way too.

[снайпер No.1523208]

GUYS

GUYS

What if,

What if we dragged a bouyant spacecraft to the bottom of the ocean with tons and tons of counterweights, and then released it when it reached the bottom so it would fly straight up out of the water and into space!?!

[Anonymous No.1523214]

>>1523191
The main contention throughout this thread is that isolated bodies invariable emit a certain amount of radiation. However, radiation cannot escape from beyond an event horizon, besides the conjectured hawking radiation which has thus far proven undetectable and low in intensity.

So, why not use black holes to capture radiation emitted by the ship?

[снайпер No.1523218]

>>1523214
How are you going to move a black hole?

[Scia No.1523221]

1.turn your ship into neutrino's so that the light will go right through
2.remove the higgs boson so that your ship don't have mass
3.trolololololololo

[Anonymous No.1523225]

>>1523214
>>1523218
Moreover, how are you going to move the ship? And how are you going to stay not dead?

[Anonymous No.1523226]

>>1523218
black holes can still have a electric charge.

[Anonymous No.1523234]

let me refine the black hole ship a bit.

instead of completely surrounding the ship, the ship could contain one black hole to which heat is transfered from by actively cooling the exterior of the ship, reducing emitted radiation to background levels

[I set my hand on fire and it was fun No.1523245]

>>1523234
I'm not really sure how black holes respond to heat. I suppose they absorb as a black body? :P

I think the only way to put heat into one is to either drop heated material into it, or radiate heat in. Ideas?

[Boomer !!bcdVCSUmpgT No.1523278]

You guys want to go to space? Here is part of the way.

[I set my hand on fire and it was fun No.1523281]

>>1523245
I'm unsure what the case will be for industrially-produced black holes, but ones the size of the sun are ludicrously chilly. Nobody would want to carry around one that size, but a mountain-mass microhole would be a convenient energy pocket. Right? I don't know my astrophysics well enough to know the failure modes. Could you boil it and make it asplode?

[Boomer !!bcdVCSUmpgT No.1523301]

>>1523281
The black hole idea is pure herpaderp. Seriously, black holes for engines, for a cloaking device... next you'll tell me massive pointy shoulder pads are the best space suits and copper based blood is a better biological base.

[I set my hand on fire and it was fun No.1523319]

>>1523301
Just having a bit of fun. If you had a way to have a few kilotons of heatsink with only some containment considerations, it'd be worth doing for a specialist stealth boat.

[Anonymous No.1523329]

>>1523281

Anything you try to dump into it is going to form a highly energetic accretion disk. Black holes are only invisible when nothing is falling into them.

[I set my hand on fire and it was fun No.1523338]

>>1523329
Hmm. Maybe you could only heat it by radiation. I know that if I hold a metal water bottle then it is a heatsink. Perhaps dropping heat into a black hole by radiation would be too inefficient to be useful. Ah well.

[Anonymous No.1523357]

metamaterials with negative refractive index

look it up

[Anonymous No.1523384]

[Anonymous No.1523385]

>>1523357
the meta material itself would emit radiation wouldn't it?

[Anonymous No.1523389]

>>1523357
Why do we even bother anymore?

[Anonymous No.1523396]

>>1523357
Doesn't affect all wavelengths simultaneously, particularly not infrared, rendering it useless.
That was the most ignorant suggestion ever. Fuck you.

[Boomer !!bcdVCSUmpgT No.1523400]

>>1523384
I laughed out loud!

[Anonymous No.1523437]

what if recliners in said holes?

[I set my hand on fire and it was fun No.1523732]

What?

[Anonymous No.1525259]

BUMP