/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.15226108]

Why do transhumanists believe in "mind uploading" when there's no scientific basis for it at all. At best, you'd be making a copy of yourself, right?

[Anonymous No.15226121]

>>15226108
Probably yes.
Unless there's things we don't know about conciousness

[Anonymous No.15226122]

>>15226108
who says the one up top actually believe it and arent just pushing an agenda.

[Anonymous No.15226132]

>>15226122
Well, who's the one up top and how can we know what he believes?

[Anonymous No.15226134]

>>15226108
Im a literal expert in this field, on multiple fronts (Phenomenology, Genetics/Evolutionary Biology/General Psychology etc, and Computer Architecture/Limits of Programming (Binary, Hexidecimal etc).

It would meld all of your lived experiences into a single personality, meaning whatever emotion you felt the strongest in your lifetine will be your dominate personality trait, so even if youre a calm and rational guy...you woupd likely turn into a Wrath Demon or a Weeping Jesus-ite.

[Anonymous No.15226138]

>>15226134
Why would it do this melding?

[Anonymous No.15226146]

>convert all the information in your brain to a machine-readable format
Maybe possible in the future.
>transfer to an HD
Doable.
>train a large language model on it
Already possible.

[Anonymous No.15226150]

>>15226146
>convert
You mean copy?

>machine readable formation
Okay so the machine reads it and... makes a copy in machine memory?

[Anonymous No.15226153]

>>15226150
Yes, a copy.

[Anonymous No.15226157]

>>15226138
Becausr it writing all your memories at once, there is no "time" whenits digital, so either it will become schizophrenic and radically change personalities or whatever is far more "potent" of a memory will simply reign.

Meaning your joy and anger will be experienced simultaneously, so one WILL be more. As how would a program know which to load and which to ignore? Whichever has more data.

Since no time....no cooling off, no "dealing with it".. All max, All the time, like when a normal person gets drunk and turns into a cry baby or something, except there is no "normal time" after, just the extreme.

[Anonymous No.15226159]

>>15226153
Okay but that's not really the kind of "uploading" that transhumanists imagine. The point is that you're still there, your brain in your body. And now there's a second you that thinks it's you in the machine.

[Anonymous No.15226163]

>>15226159
But that's what upload means. It makes a copy. Besides, you're information anyway, so it doesn't matter.

[Anonymous No.15226164]

>>15226157
Couldn't the processing speed be adjusted to be inline with biological experience?

[Anonymous No.15226167]

>>15226163
Point is that there's no point in "uploading" as transhumanists conceive of it (based on a misconception of the word), because it's not you. You're not gaining immortality here.

[Anonymous No.15226168]

>>15226108
what if you are the copy and the upload is the real one though

[Anonymous No.15226171]

>>15226168
Then that's that. You're still a copy and not the original.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROTxwdWyWUU

[Anonymous No.15226177]

>>15226164
Sure, we just need the fundemental unit of time and a scalar computational physics simulator.

Also, when it hurts, time slows...when its fun, time doesnt. Perception of time is what keeps humans humane. Allows for wounds to heal, etc. Allows for us to move on. Without time, "clock speed doesnt count...it just computes digitst slower, not less severe.

Because its a program, the memory will have a 1:1 copy of the emotions, so you would NEVER "get over it", 100% fresh wound for all time, forever.

[Anonymous No.15226179]

>>15226167
Depends on what exactly is consciousness. Whatever it is, there is just one of you. What makes your consciousness unique? Maybe there is an unique combination of things that give rise to the form of consciousness that is experienced by you. If one knows what combination forms you, then there's nothing stopping that person from replicating your consciousness elsewhere. Now you experience two bodies, one real and another virtual. But that hinges in a premise about consciousness that is probably false.

[Anonymous No.15226182]

>>15226177
Sounds pretty shit. Do you have any idea why Elon's brain chip moneys went nuts?

[Anonymous No.15226184]

>>15226182
>lives in a medical prison
>brain wounds, little relief
>tests and tests
>no trees, no family, no community

I wonder why too...

[Anonymous No.15226185]

>>15226179
You wouldn't experience two bodies though. You'd experience just your body, and that identical consciousness would experience it's own or the machine or whatever. If they're a magic copy of your state at time X, then there would be a divergence as we move forward from X into the future.

[Anonymous No.15226189]

>>15226184
>still uses a pic of himself wearing a costume called "The Devil's Champion"
Fitting..

[Anonymous No.15226191]

>>15226185
That's just speculation, we don't really know. And if it was as you say, what rule decides which you is you if there is an exact copy of your consciousness? What makes you you then?

[Anonymous No.15226193]

>>15226182
>Sounds pretty shit
Basically...thats what Prophets experience. The difference between a schizo and a prophet is wether or not they can find a way out of a hyperdimensional maze, but for prophets its more sudden and unexpected, most schizos enter the maze slowly...over time, like a snake slowly inching closer and a mouse that cant see it moving because its so slow.

I made it out and I detailed my entire experience on a scienctific level, now I travel the world studying religions, human experience etc.

[Anonymous No.15226194]

>>15226191
I'd say it's the default position since we only ever observe people experiencing one body, and because consciousness appears to be a function of the brain.

[Anonymous No.15226196]

>>15226193
And what is this maze exactly?

[Anonymous No.15226198]

>>15226191
>an exact copy of your consciousness
For a femto-second....maybe...

[Anonymous No.15226205]

>>15226194
>>15226198
I don't know, the idea that there can be two exact copies of one's consciousness, even if for just a moment, should imply you're both unless you go beyond your own consciousness. And while both consciousness will change afterwards, your consciousness is changing all the time and you're still you.

[Anonymous No.15226210]

>>15226196
Percieving reality on a higher level than humans are born and raised to experience.

I cant speak on *too* much authority on other prophets but mine was a process that took several months. Mind split, eacg hemiphere thinking independently

Yes, two perceptions of reality at the same time. Each one percieves reality very differenct, so one of the "oddest" moments of my life was that, my brain analysing itself, at the same time.

Also, perception of tine, whacked...when the Bible says people lived for 1,000 years....yeah, they felt like life lasted for 1,000 years. Too long. Im too knowledgeable in too many fields, see too much...I cant have "friends & family", theyre human like all humans...I am not

>>15226191
Yeah, but physically connected and sharing information.

[Anonymous No.15226215]

>>15226205
>two exact copies of one's consciousness,
As soon as their seperated theyre no longer one. A smokers heart into a non-smoke made him smoke. Gut biome changes can produce personality changes.


You arent even you....

[Anonymous No.15226216]

>>15226210
Any idea why/how this happened?

[Anonymous No.15226219]

>>15226216
Its nature. Prophets are as normal and narural as migrations or whatever.

Basically...society "progresses" meaning new laws and such. Eventually thoae law contradict nature in such a way that its a signal to an organism to change.

I did, no longer "human", in olde times they were called angels, demons, now we say aliens or machine elves. Its not new, its as old as humans themselves.

[Anonymous No.15226223]

>>15226219
>its a signal to an organism to change.
Then that organism is used as a measuring rod by nature to reflect where and how to change. Thats where "revolution" comes from, thats why wars start, etc.

[Anonymous No.15226228]

>>15226223
>measuring rod

[Anonymous No.15226230]

>>15226228
Correct, mortal. Rings (Blessing from Feminine Nature) and Rods (Measuring Rod used to Judge the Living AND the Dead) are my specialty.

Want to play a game?

[Anonymous No.15226233]

>>15226228
you can measure my rod with your anus

[Anonymous No.15226234]

>>15226167
Advocates of "mind uploading" don't care about actually living forever. They're delusionals that think that anyone would care about their specific input on future discourse (or even that any human will be part of the discourse in the age of ASI).

[Anonymous No.15226238]

>>15226230
>play a game?
is ...is the game buttsecks

[Anonymous No.15226241]

>>15226230
>the rod and the ring will strike
What does this mean?

[Anonymous No.15226242]

>>15226238
Anal probes. Its been known for decades.

[Anonymous No.15226247]

>>15226108
Read Parfit

[Anonymous No.15226248]

>>15226234
So.. they think they're creating god and want you to think you have a future in the world they're tying to build?

[Anonymous No.15226250]

>>15226241
Means I will "arrive". Already happened, 2017 or so was the peak (ascension took several months). Old news. The world stage was rearranged (Trump Admin) and the alliances around the world shifted, that was Nature.

Youre apart of this too...you played a part.

[Anonymous No.15226267]

>>15226248
No, they think that they'd be intellectually on par with god.

[Anonymous No.15226308]

>>15226108
>when there's no scientific basis for it at all
You mean like that gravity shit some fag thought of with apples?

[Anonymous No.15226310]

>>15226267
I am. Thats why for millenia they spoke of "Muh Gods" Those were hyper advanced people and nature reflects them, as they would be the avatars of "love, war, whateve etc".

They, those that try this in any unnatural, inorganic, means will ALWAYS fail.

Project Monarch, MK Ultra etc, produced warped prophets that fuck up, go insane, lose all morality etc.

[The subconscious doesn't exist anon No.15226364]

>>15226108
I believe uploading is a fantasy, as there is no medium or object to transfer from or into, however you might be able to slowly integrate an artificial network into our existing brain structure, migrate processes and then have the artificial system take over once the biological brain fails. I'm not sure if that would end up preserving ego continuity, however, it just seems more likely to do so than simply uploading, which is prima facie an impossibilia.
>>15226134
>Im a literal expert in this field, on multiple fronts (Phenomenology [...]
Sweet, who, Husserl or Merleau-Ponty?

[Anonymous No.15226408]

>>15226364
>Husserl or Merleau-Ponty
Jesus, Buddha, Mohammed, Moses, names like those. Who did you reaearch under?

Anyone who says they research these fields I immediately dump their research into the trash, I read other fields research and extrapolate my own hypothese, as the field isnt mature and its people generally miss the mark (non-scientific, non-physics, non-genetics, pure sociology/psychology (which is generally trash.))

[The subconscious doesn't exist anon No.15226432]

>>15226408
Oh, you are Asian, never mind.

[Anonymous No.15226440]

>>15226108
as a giga chad based transhumanist I'll tell you that only the onions boy cuck transhumanists want to upload their mind so that their mind can keep existing independently somewhere else, which I will agree has no scientific basis, it's like believing in some cucked version of heaven for atheists, I want to upload my mind so my memories can go in some AI god's cringe compilation or meme folder, not for it to continue existing as a decision making agency

[Anonymous No.15226442]

>>15226193
What should I do to experience this maze too?

[Anonymous No.15226464]

>>15226442
Thats like asking how to become Jesus. You are either on the path or you are not The maze contains hell, its not "all fun", its fucked and makes people go insane regularly.

If you follow someone else's path...then it wouldnt be natural, and wont be full force. Some monks *can* attain a fair bit of ascension but when inside a religion its not your natural behavior, its modified, external, nature, so it wont be "full power". Hence...all prophets ascend outside of religions, as there was no "Christian" before Christ, so he couldnt "be one", he was simply himself, nature.

>>15226432
No, but Im now certain you know nothing but psycho-babble Phenomenology, devoid of concrete Biology and centered cleanly in New Age nonsense.

Study Physics on Biology, not People's Digest Papers.

[Anonymous No.15226721]

>>15226108
Gradual uploading already exists as neurogenesis/neuroregeneration changes our brain cells. By emulating this process one could gradually replace all brain cells with nanomachines.
By linking up virtual brain cells with analog ones one could also switch the process to primaly depend on the virtual substrate, so that the destruction of the analog part of the mind are not fatal.

[Anonymous No.15226747]

>>15226134
>Limits of Programming (Binary, Hexidecimal etc)
lol, you're just a larping clueless faggot

[Anonymous No.15226760]

>>15226747
You.....are ignorant about everything in life. Your degree in compsci is a meme, even you know it. Im not wrong, you simply spouted to the thread "IM AN IDIOT, LOOK AT ME."

Secondly...if you think youre smarter than me then tell me how to build a computer outside of known science. Show me how a computer can accurately and minimally measure 1/3.

Try it, moron....POST SCHEMATIC NOW.

Jesus....you have a degree in this field, dont you? Fucking retarded....by god...


Why do you think computers have issues computing basic math? FUCK YOURE STUPID!

[Anonymous No.15226762]

>>15226747
You know what. No. Dont tespond to my post.

Why are you even on this board?

Go back to /g/ where your math minor is respected.

[Anonymous No.15226769]

>>15226440
>I want to upload my mind so my memories can go in some AI god's cringe compilation or meme folder
kek

[Anonymous No.15226780]

>>15226760
holy shit you're an unironic schizo who urgently needs his meds. But you probably won't take them, so let's continue to amuse ourselves. Explain to me how the hexadecimal numeral system limits programming...? (no i don't have a cs degree)

[Anonymous No.15226787]

>>15226780
>Explain to me how the hexadecimal numeral system limits programming...?
Do your own research you lazy, know nothing, retard.

Im not here to being told Im retarded while flipping you over with my pinky, WITH EASE, I'D STOMP YOUR "PROFESSOR".

YOURE A FUCKING ANT. GO BACK TO /G/, PUNK.
>tell me how to do what I cant even comprehend is possible....but also fuck you lol idiot

Decades of research, your teachers are dunces and everything you know is wrong.

[Anonymous No.15226788]

>>15226780
>no i don't have a cs degree
This means you have nonfucking clue what youre tlaking about.

GO BACK TO /G/, TOURIST.

[Anonymous No.15226805]

>>15226788
You said yourself its a meme degree. At least I know enough to understand that what numerals you choose to represent data doesn't affect what's computable/programmable. You're just a larper, and probably on acid

[Anonymous No.15226814]

>>15226760
All you have to do is represent 1/3 in a way that is compatible with computer memory and computation. 1/3 in and of itself is an incomplete calculation that humans cannot accurately represent without the cope of infinite repeating digits or simply leaving it unfinished as a fraction. If you think you're any better than the computer, than you're sorely mistaken.

[Anonymous No.15226816]

>>15226805
>what numerals you choose to represent data doesn't affect what's computable/programmable

Ah, so you have no concept of number theory or computational mathematics.

>Show me how a computer can accurately and minimally measure 1/3

You got filtered, kiddo, the topic is THEORETICAL COMPUTER SCIENCE. YOU BROUGHT ZERO THEORY.

You dont even understand youre not talking about something you at all understand....Im not even talking to a person...youre a reflection of humanity's errors.

[Anonymous No.15226820]

>>15226721
what makes you think uploading is equivalent to integration?

[Anonymous No.15226821]

Ppl 100 yrs ago wouldnt think what we are capable of doing now. Give it a century or two more. Who knows what will be possible by then. [e-mail]

[Anonymous No.15226822]

>>15226814
>All you have to do is represent 1/3 in a way that is compatible with computer memory and computation
WRONG. YOU DONT EVEN UNDERSTAND THE ISSUE. AT ALL. NOT EVEN APPLIED COMPUTER SCIENCE.

THIS IS THEORY, FOR THOSE THAT MASTERED APPLIED.

Who the fuck do you think you are, to have ZERO credentials or ability?

[Anonymous No.15226823]

>>15226816
you're having a manic episode

[Anonymous No.15226828]

>>15226814
>1/3 in and of itself is an incomplete calculation that humans cannot accurately represent
>represents it accurately as 1/3

i want to see a computer try to represent an irrational number in unary.

[Anonymous No.15226829]

>>15226823
No, Im shocked how many people with PhDs or tenure are absolutely ignorant in their own fields of study. Im not even a computer scientist, Im a mathematical physicist.

Youre "into" this field but has so little knowledge its like a blind man insisting they be the lookout...

No. Go away, youre clearly ignorant about this entire thread.

[Anonymous No.15226837]

>>15226828
I would like to see you do it first.

[Anonymous No.15226843]

>>15226816
>Ah, so you have no concept of number theory or computational mathematics.
If anything, you're talking about practical CPU design, but it has no bearing on theoretical aspects. But feel free to enlighten me, why so avoidant to go into details?

[Anonymous No.15226855]

>>15226843
>If anything, you're talking about practical CPU design, but it has no bearing on theoretical aspects
>He cant extrapolate dynamic binary or novel architecture.
>Rejects anything that wasnt outlined in his text book.
>He thinks hes smart...but cant move past where others led him....

You think small, so small its a waste of my time, go to the Comptia subreddit and learn why youre wrong...not expect the world to educate you while yoi pretend to be educated, knowledgabke, experienced or even worthy.

You....do have certifications, right? You understand how internet protocols work, right?

RIGHT???

[Anonymous No.15226864]

>>15226108
Why would future zoomers keep a bunch of shittalking boomers in their folders it would be extremely annoying

[Anonymous No.15226867]

>>15226864
>Hes never had the dream of being uploading to the cloud to shitpost for thousands of years.

Kid goals, mang...

[Anonymous No.15227086]

>>15226132
Jews and you can read their books

[Anonymous No.15227604]

>>15226464
>>15226760
>>15226762
>>15226816
>>15226822
>>15226829
>>15226855
> Reddit spacing
> Spastic
> High probability (90%+) of being Asian

[Anonymous No.15227613]

>>15226108
>why do crazy and midwit people believe crazy and midwit things?
What a mystery!

[Anonymous No.15227644]

>>15226159
I believe the idea is you replace each brain region at a time, usually it's an upgrade to that region that you'd probably notice like fast memory recall or better vision but it won't fully change you as a person because it's done slowly over time and before you know it all parts of your brain have been replaced with sturdy hardware with extra capabilities like uploading to the matrix or something.

[Anonymous No.15227667]

>>15227644
I mean if Moore's law was still going strong and not looking to end it would be one thing, the dream is dead.

>muh quantum computing
Will never happen. It's a pipedream. Anything to do with "quantum" is basically nonsense if you ask me, especially during our lifetimes. Even if something like that started to develop there's just no way - it simply would not happen in anything near our lifetime or ever.

You've got to remember that even if stuff like that started to be developed, which it won't, they would have renegade scientists like the guy who cloned babies coming up with all kinds of monstrosities, you would have "biohackers" and bioterrorists releasing all sorts of biological forms into the world within no time and the world would be doomed. You would have eugenics up the butt and suddenly as a normal person of today you'd be considered mentally disabled and a burden on society then.

Just.. it won't happen.

[Anonymous No.15227702]

>>15227667
>Just.. it won't happen.
I mean I mostly agree with you anon but I would not make such an absolute statement like that, quantum computing won't work because of the cooling needed to achieve the superposition of the qubits in such a small skull case but we have only just started making multi-layer cpus essentially bringing them from 2d to 3d, so one cpu with a thousand layers of other cpus able to communicate extremely efficiently with each other because of the neuron like 3d architecture and god knows what other fancy ways to increase clock speeds you could get when you're not limited to 2 dimensions could mean this kinda of thing might not be impossible in the far future.

[Anonymous No.15229018]

>>15226364
The gradual replacement of dying neurons is the only way that appears to make sense.
We don't really know how much of the granularity of the neuro anatomy is required though. It's not just neurons, it's the expression levels of many different proteins such as ion channels and a myriad of receptors, it's the topology of the dendrite and it's relation to neighboring axons, the membrane permeability, the expression level of transmitters and a whole host of other factors. How much of this has to be captured by the artificial replacement parts?

[Anonymous No.15229026]

>>15226721
>>15227644
see:
>>15229018

[Anonymous No.15229030]

>>15226837
the computer loses to the human because the human knows it can't be done while the computer must do it regardless.

[Anonymous No.15229056]

>>15227604
You know what you wont do?

Post science...because I would destroy you and any sembalence of intelligence you see in yourself.