/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.15190863]

What is really wrong with the education system these days? I always here about how garbage it is but are there better alternatives?

[Anonymous No.15190880]

>>15190863
>What is really wrong with the education system these days?
Nothing. But right-wing politicians want you to be uneducated, that explains their crusade against it.

[Anonymous No.15191027]

>>15190863
There are no alternatives. It's just an old system with an old bureaucracy. It's like an elderly person desu. It exists for the sake of itself at this point like an elderly person on a ton of expensive life support.

I think academia across the globe would collapse if the American system finally pops. There would be so much more competition it would be unreal.

[Anonymous No.15191208]

>>15190863
>What is really wrong with the education system these days?
Easier to list what is not wrong with it.
1.

[Anonymous No.15191216]

>>15190880
>right-wing politicians
don't exist.
>>15190880
>Governments want you to be uneducated, which is why they provide the indoctrination...... "education".

[Anonymous No.15191238]

>>15190863
At the public school level
>grade inflation to avoid being called racist/sexist/?ist
>indoctrination
>won't suspend troublemakers out of fear of being called racist
>so much time and resources spent on trying to help the low end of the bell curve while the high end of the bell curve is slowed down

At the college level
>inflated prices thanks to student loan availability
>grade inflation
>affirmative action
>indoctrination

I think so much went wrong in education when we started giving too much weight to nurture and too little weight to nature.
The nurture camp would have you believe that anybody can be made into some kind of expert or genius and it focuses too much effort trying to innovate curriculum, teaching styles, and other content delivery strategies.
The nature camp would have you believe that potential is innate and inflexible and therefore education should focus on filtering people into suitable levels of the competence hierarchy.
Our current system basically ignores the latter and will never acknowledge filtering as a part of its role/purpose except the informal bestowing of prestige based on the quality of university you get accepted into.

Many problems have also arisen from misunderstanding the observed correlations between the outcomes of successful people and the education they received.
>example
>college grads will earn on average $X more in their lifetime than those who don't attend college
>gets interpreted as "if you go to college then you should expect to earn $X more in your lifetime"
>gets implemented as "let's push everybody to go to college"
>The reality: the correlation only held when we didn't push everyone to go to college and those who did self-selected. The new batch of people will not see the gains or the industries/companies they manage to go into will start to see stagnation or declining performance.
The grade inflation is likely a mix of activism and avoiding bad PR from activists but the obvious quality hazards result.

[Anonymous No.15191255]

>>15190880
Retard alert. Educational standards have done nothing but decline for decades in America (most Western countries really), and the blame almost entirely lies with the progressive brain rot infecting our school systems. The problem has gotten so bad that leftist shitholes like Oregon, California, and Virginia are abolishing basic competence requirements because none of their students (especially minority students) can read or do basic math. In Democrat cities there are entire schools where not one student is able to perform at level.

On the other hand, the only region where educational standards are still rising is the Asian countries like Japan, China, South Korea, and Singapore. And by the most remarkable coincidence, they have 0 woke garbage in their curricula. No mindless droning about racism, trans pride, reparations, patriarchy, or any of that bullshit. Instead, they opt for stringent personal accountability, long study hours, and frequent grueling exams. Basically all the tactics that right-wingers love, and that that leftists have spent the last 40 years removing from our system.

Every place leftists control suffers decline and collapse. Every single one without fail.

[Anonymous No.15191266]

>>15190863
The curriculum alone is fucked. Instead of teaching logic to kids for example, they are teaching how to memorize formulas and calculations. This alone fucked me up when I went to uni and got a taste of real STEM.

[Anonymous No.15191285]

>>15191238
>grade inflation
How true is this? The way that I see it is that because more people than ever are going to college, more high IQ people are attending, which I would guess pumps the average GPA up and more than offsets any grade inflation occurring. Plus STEM is *fairly* self-selective. I would assume that people who aren't good at math will probably get filtered by first year classes and drop out of their major for something easier.

[Anonymous No.15191325]

>>15191285
>>grade inflation
>How true is this?
Follow the money. If they flunk too many people, they lose big money. Better to pass the vast majority with grading on a curve and affirmative action rules so they keep making that sweet college money.

[Anonymous No.15191371]

>>15191285
Grade inflation definitely exists. I've heard teachers say they won't fail anyone, and their classes are the ones that get filled up first because students want that artificial grade boost. Then there are teachers with different standards, so that an A for an easy teacher is a C for a more difficult one. This was about 10 years ago. I imagine the situation is even worse now.

I'm not sure I agree with your logic. You don't need high IQ to pass a course. You just need enough motivation to not fail. And even if more high IQ people were attending college, a larger number of average IQ people would be too. If anything, average GPA should be staying the same or decreasing.

[Anonymous No.15191449]

>>15191285
>because more people than ever are going to college, more high IQ people are attending
Maybe more in absolute numbers, but they make up a smaller % now because hordes from the middle of the curve flooded in.
You can look up how the average iq at every level of academic attainment is falling.

>pumps the average GPA up and more than offsets any grade inflation occurring
C is meant to be average. If everyone is maxing out the scales then you can't really tell who is better.
As >>15191325 implies, beyond activism there is money to be made by inflating grades to keep as many butts in the seats as possible.
There is also incentive on the back end because higher GPAs are more likely to get hired and schools like to brag about the successes of their graduates.

You can look up the grade inflation phenomenon. There are plenty of stats and graphs.
To argue it isn't happening is insane.
A more defensible argument would be to reject the sorting/filtering purpose of school and argue everything should just be pass-fail because "who cares, as long as you are above the standard then you are qualified".
I would still fight you there but it would be field specific.

[Anonymous No.15191552]

>>15191255
>Oregon
LET ME OUT! CALIFAGS RUIN EVERYTHING!

[Anonymous No.15191613]

>>15190863
1. Standards are too low. Schools are too afraid to let students fail or be held back a year.
2. Too much emphasis on examination. If exams are necessary, it is better to do oral exams, since they’re better for actually testing knowledge.
3. Too much standardization. Not enough specialization.
4. Not enough real-world skills taught. Many things like memorizing dates/names are archaic now. For example, all schools should teach programming.
5. Budget’s all fucked up. Too much money goes to administration and bureaucracy. It should all go to teachers, maintenance, and teaching supplies. Teachers should be paid the same as doctors; and teachers should be held to the standards of doctors, too. See point 7.
6. Homework is fucking stupid. Students should not think about school at home. Ban homework.
7. Teachers are fucking stupid. For education to work, our educators need to be the smartest in our society.
8. Not enough fun. Schools are fucking miserable. Too much sitting down, too much bullshit. This sounds like it conflicts with point 1, but on the contrary, it helps children learn. Structure makes children bored drones. Examples of better structures for schools include Reggio, Montessori, and Socratic styles. Some of these are too liberal, but they’re better than what we’ve got.
9. Lecture-style for everything doesn’t work. If you want children to grow up to be innovators, you have to treat them like innovators as children.
10. Not enough decisions or risk for children. Schools are sterile and “safe.” This is the opposite of what a child needs. Children need to try everything, and learn from doing.

[Anonymous No.15191642]

>>15191552

[Anonymous No.15191646]

>>15191642
OSU was a crap school when I went to undergrad and that was 10 years ago.

[Anonymous No.15191650]

>>15190863

>ALEXANDRE BOROVIK, ZOLTAN KOCSIS, AND VLADIMIR KONDRATIEV

These guys have a pretty good paper on the subject. From what I remember it states that the US is going in the wrong direction in making Mathematical modeling more simple for kids rather than more sophisticated and abstract-as will be necessary for jobs requiring Maths. It's pretty sad, they also say that the US has essentially given up either intentionally or unintentionally on making STEM careers a means of upward economic mobility for public school children. I personally believe this is exactly intended, education consultants want this technocratic class of children having a much different life than tertiary children-being taught service economy mathematics.
>in other words hamburger flipper math for the public school kids and Grothondieck for the technocrats

[Anonymous No.15191657]

>>15191646
were you in agriculture? i know a pair of brothers who came out of osu agriculture about 10 years ago and ended up rapidly making several tens of millions of dollars selling unique selectively bred seed stock to farmers.

[Anonymous No.15193551]

>>15191449
Interesting post.