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/sci/ - Science & Math

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15166851 No.15166851 [Reply] [Original]

Is free will actually a spectrum?

I can think of the following three stages of freedom of will.
1) A determinitard blindly following orders. E.g. someone says "Get vaccinated!" and he does it immediately.
2) Someone presented with a finite number of choices freely decides based on his personal preferences. E.g. when asked "Sex with a man or a transwoman" I chose the latter since I'm not gay.
3) A full free will Chad acting on his own without being prompted externally. E.g. me freely coming up with the idea to make this thread.

How can we further formalize this to solve the question of free will scientifically once and for all?

>> No.15166881

>>15166851
Any label needs a point. What are you trying to discriminate? If its compliance in crowds and compliance against the universe, then you have two labels not one because they are not interlinked.

>> No.15166924

>>15166851
>me freely coming up with the idea to make this thread
do freewillcucks really?

>> No.15166931

>>15166851
Free will is retarded, but so is causality

>> No.15166932
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15166932

>>15166851
Free will is the intractable chaos of self-reflecting minds.

>> No.15166937

>>15166851
Doesn't determinism just mean if you know the starting variables you can determine the outcome of any experiment?

>> No.15166938

>>15166937
It other words, it doesn't mean anything, and simply amounts to a metaphysical dogma.

>> No.15166940

>>15166937
>experiment
try "system"

>> No.15166942
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15166942

>>15166851
It also doesn’t exist for some people at all because they literally can’t think of things in the future.

>> No.15166943

>>15166937
You can't predict using science you can only describe what you observe

>> No.15166946

>>15166943
>>15166938
You can predict using science, it's called forecasting and quantum mechanics works probabilistically anyway

>> No.15166951

>>15166946
>You can predict using science
Predict what happens when I flip a coin

>> No.15166952

>>15166946
>You can predict using science
Doesn't contradict anything I said.

>> No.15166962

>>15166951
Coin flips are deterministic. We can calculate the outcome depending on the position of your thumb, which side the coin was flipped, etc.
Quantum mechanics is probabilistic, meaning we can generate truly random numbers or observations. Though, just because quantum mechanics has randomness, most everyday events abide by determinism and the laws of classical relativity.
>>15166952
What are you trying to say?

>> No.15166968

>>15166962
>What are you trying to say?
See >>15166938
You can't know the starting variables for anything so it's pure unfalsifiable metaphysics.

>> No.15166970

>>15166968
>you can't know the starting variables for anything
??

>> No.15166972

Oh whoops, I'm arguing for compatibilism btw. I think you had me confused with the other anon

>> No.15166974

>>15166968
>You can't know the starting variables so you have to believe human brain has magic powers and a magic cloud man built the universe in 7 days
kys

>> No.15166978

>>15166970
>>15166974
>determinitards absolutely losing their minds over a basic truth

>> No.15166979

>>15166962
>e can calculate the outcome depending on the position of your thumb, which side the coin was flipped, etc.
So do it. I just flipped a coin, what was the result

>> No.15166983

>>15166974
>so you have to believe human brain has magic powers and a magic cloud man built the universe in 7 days
Yes

>> No.15166984
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15166984

>>15166979
>what was the result
the result is that you are a sub 80 IQ retarded christcuck who cannot comprehend physics or neuroscience

>> No.15166986

>>15166972
"Compatibilism" is just a midwitted synonym for determinism.

>> No.15166989

>>15166984
I accept your concession. You can't predict using science

>> No.15167002

>>15166986
It states you have free will but determinism (i.e. laws of classical relativity, the universe, so on) are hardline determined. Of course they would be subject to change, say if we made some groundbreaking scientific discovery tomorrow
But chances are (probabilistically) that won't happen, and we'll go on like we always do

>> No.15168963

>>15167002
>It states you have free will
No, it redefines "free will" to mean something deterministically cucked that has nothing to do with free will anymore.

>> No.15169165

>>15166942
>trying to offload the responsibility of shooting on the nigger when the cop is the one shooting
fuck off, retard
thinking of the future doesn't mean you can predict the future
if the cop wants to shoot, go ahead, one step further to the collapse of civilization as more and more people get fed up with abusive authoritarianism

>> No.15169208

>>15166851
You're not using the typical definitions for "free will" or "determination." What you're talking about has more to do with psychological conditions, whether genetic or environmental. Some people have a herd mentality, others are more likely to question authority. This is an entirely different matter.

>> No.15169225

>>15169208
>You're not using the typical definitions for "free will"
There is no "typical definition of free will".

>> No.15169281
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15169281

>>15166851
>Is free will actually a spectrum?
no.
It is always free.
Free will is only then harmed when you elicit some force which a no cannot stop.
Example: "Eat the bugs"
You can say no or yes.
If I would tie you up, put a device on your mouth, to ensure you don't bite of your own toung, and forcefeed you bugs. You still have have the will to not eat the bugs but I violate your will.

Everything is literally a free will decision.
Everything.
Everything is a decision, even not deciding is a decision.
You decide to not decide.
You decide to obey, weather it is out of fear, or lazyness or any other of the basic sins.
There is no "Determinism" if given unlimited options.

>> No.15169299

>>15169281
>Example: "Eat the bugs"
>You can say no or yes.
When saying no is equivalent to starving, you have no choice. They are causing an artificial famine, destroying supply of meat and eggs. This isn't about free will, this is about autonomy. Free will doesn't matter when there's external force.

>> No.15169309
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15169309

>>15169299
maybe the urbanites should just eat their university degrees?

>> No.15169311

>>15169309
>maybe the urbanites should just eat their university degrees?
kek'd mildly

>> No.15169468

>>15169309
Always wondered.
How come they cry Doomsday, but never do anything beyond complaining.
If climate change is real, then mankind won't change to stop it.
They just won't.

(btw it isnt real, in the sense that we're just gonna fry soon)

>> No.15170986
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15170986

>>15168963
What?