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/sci/ - Science & Math

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15159158 No.15159158 [Reply] [Original]

>MY consciousness can only exist for a few decades in infinite time
Do you really believe this? There's no reason not to think I will effectively experience consciousness forever as different life forms

>> No.15159186

your consciousness is a small part of a untold greater whole just as one atom is a part of the universe

>> No.15159193

Scientifically, does the fact that no one has adequately answered Benj Hellie's vertiginous question disprove the materialist view of consciousness?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertiginous_question

>> No.15159195
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15159195

Possible mechanisms for how an afterlife could exist:
https://alwaysasking.com/is-there-life-after-death/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65jdcvSOOjI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w13yLq16QiM

>> No.15159413

>>15159186
WDYM

>> No.15159656
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15159656

>MY
The unbound telesis manifesting itself as "your" consciousness will certainly be reused by the universe. (You) have no ownership over it though.

>> No.15159910

>>15159656
Then what are we referring to when we say "I" and "MY".

>> No.15159911

>>15159193
I remember posing this question to myself when I was 5 years old in kindergarten. Which tells me it's not that smart.

>> No.15159913

>>15159195
And yet I don't remember my previous lives and have zero connection to previous experiences, which means this current life will mean nothing to "me" (whatever that means) when I will be "reborn" (whatever that means) after "my" transformation.
Which is effectively death to me.

>> No.15159918

>>>/x/

>> No.15159919

>>15159910
The temporally limited relationship between consciousness and physical body.

>> No.15159936

>>15159919
So I am neither the consciousness, nor the body it inhabits but the relationship between them?

>> No.15160506

>>15159913
So people with amnesia don't exist? Plus there's lots of parts of your life which you have forgotten (eg what you ate for breakfast on May 12 2013). Since these exist "you" are more than your memories

>> No.15160516

>>15159911
>any question asked by a kid means it's bad
buddy I got bad news, most of science is dumb now

>> No.15160574

>>15159186
Nope, the Universe is a small part of my consciousness

>> No.15160604

Sex with japanese women dressed as anime girls.

>> No.15160607

>>15159158
The real question is if you have the humility to make right with God or not.

>> No.15160634

>>15159158
>my consciousness
>my thing
>my

>> No.15160680

>>15159158
I am unsure whether immortality is impossible or a necessity

>> No.15160707

>>15160634
Whatever you consider to be "you", it's changing all the time. In some sense, you don't even exist

>> No.15160710

>>15160506
The person they were does not, no.

NTA, but anything meaningful is lost without the original ego. If your story starts again every day, its as though each day is a new entity. If you have no point of contact with the original self-model, then it has indeed died. It died in any appreciable definition of the word.

Its a subtle point but once you "get it" you cannot un-get it.

>> No.15160719

>>15160707
Every moment of your existence is interpreted in a context accumulated from your past. You are present experience put in that context. Once that context is gone, you're gone. It's no longer "your" consciousness.

>> No.15160724
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15160724

>The Mind Exists as a Field Connected to the Brain
https://www.scienceandnonduality.com/article/a-new-theory-of-consciousness-the-mind-exists-as-a-field-connected-to-the-brain
>consciousness resides in a field surrounding the brain
>has certain similarities with a black hole
>a holographic structured field
>in another dimension
>could take the shape of a torus
>quantum wave resonance

>Gateway Process
https://documents2.theblackvault.com/documents/cia/CIA-RDP96-00788R001700210016-5.pdf
>holographic torus universe
>holographic hyperdimensional infinite consciousness
>possible encounters with intelligent, non-corporal energy forms when time-space boundaries are exceeded

>Tesla Electromagnetics
https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA127574.pdf
>relativity is only a statement about FIRST ORDER reality -- the reality that emerges from the vector interaction of electromagnetic energy with matter
>when we break down the vectors into scalars (shadow vectors or hypervectors), we immediately enter a vastly different, far more fundamental reality
>in this reality superluminal velocity, multiple universes, travel back and forth in time, higher dimensions, variation of all "fundamental constants" of nature, materialization and dematerialization, and violation of the "conservation of energy" are all involved
>using scalar waves and scalar interactions as much subtler, far less limited observation/detection mechanisms, we must have a new "superrelativity" to describe the expanded electromagnetic reality uncovered by Nikola Tesla

>Consciousness-Assisted Technology
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C51vGNJxXYI
>hyperdimensional mind over matter consciousness field
>allows levitation, astral projection, teleportation, multiple timelines, remote timeline viewing, telepathy, telekinesis, zero-point energy, and manifestation
>can be mechanized with ufos, antennas, and ai
>populated by brains, black projects, extraterrestrials, and non-corporal interdimensional astral entities

>> No.15160747

>>15159158
Do you have any proofs of that?, no? Then it's just your believe.

>> No.15160759

>>15159195
As the other anon is saying. Once your neurons die and your memories are erased forever, you cease to exist. Yes a person that hits his head and loses his memories forever is another person, the one before died once his memories were erased.

>> No.15160771

>>15159913
>>15160759
i always thought about that
only way that isn't horrible is if there's a soul because damn, if it isn't like that, are we just in some sorta fucking amnesia prison?

>> No.15160790

>>15160771
>are we just in some sorta fucking amnesia prison?

What do you mean with amnesia prison? We are now conscious and then our neurons die and our self dies. The End. Until it's proven than we could somehow move our memories and self into a new brain/body and keep living then that's it, when our neurons die, we are erased.

>> No.15160808

>>15160707
There's no "you". There's only ever conscious of a model in the mind. Many like to construct a false notion of a "you" and project it outwards. But its only a model in the mind thats used as a justification. If you believe theres a "you" homunculus in your mind, controlling the body, then I can believe a 100 foot tall Titan roaming in my mind also exist.

Flawed analysis leads to flawed conclusion. Reanalyze what "conscious" means. It doesn't mean "you", it just means the model of the object in the mind. Any meta "self" awareness is merely a model as well. There's nothing hidden behind the model.

>> No.15160815

>>15160790
>materialism
CRINGE

>> No.15160816

>>15160808
Low IQ take.

>> No.15160916

>>15160815
What is cringe is to say something is obvious when there is no single proof about it.

>> No.15160939

>Human dies.
>The memories of that human are stored in some way before they are erased.
>The memories are implanted in a clone of that human with the same age.
>The clone never learns that all of that happened.

In that case he would never be able to know he is a clone, right?
Is he the same person as the one who died?

>> No.15160940

>>15159936
don't make him think to hard, he's convinced himself he isn't sentient

i happen to agree

>> No.15160955

>>15160916
the argument goes both ways but you wanna use it for your convenience
thats sad

>> No.15160974

>>15159158
quantum immortality is true, your consciousness never expires from your perspective, you just linger forever barely clinging to existence in the least unlikely scenario possible

>> No.15160985

>>15160955
Yeah the eternal cope of religious people.

>YOU CAN'T PROVE WHAT I'M SAYING ISN'T RIGHT EITHER!

Yeah so let's believe in elfs, unicorns and everything else you could think about, because as we can't disprove them then they should be taken into consideration as something serious. Yeah, no thanks. Until you prove it, it's just a believe.

>> No.15161011

>>15160985
>let's believe
this is where you're going wrong

>elfs, unicorns and everything else you could think about
until i've seen all of existence, i cannot preclude theirs. to do anything else is fundamentally unscientific, and just going back to the addictive allure of faith, even if covered with the lie that faith in an empty pantheon is somehow less retarded than faith in an inhabited one

>> No.15161025

>>15161011
So you think that the content of our brains escape in some way our brains before dying and keeps in the air like some type of wave and then is inserted again in a new body or just wonders around being an invisible being, like ghosts. But then we don't remember our past lives... Is that more or less what you think?

>> No.15161028

>>15159158
>Occipital lobe is damaged
>Lose sight
>Everything is damaged
>Gain everything back again
>>15161015

>> No.15161118

>>15160939
>memory is consciousness
>someone loses memory in coma
>they're still the same person, but different memory
So they don't have any consciousness? Or wat? LMAO

>> No.15161126

>>15161025
did GPT write this? it's a complete non-sequitur (so obviously the answer is no)

>> No.15161130

>>15161118
If someone loses all his memory in a coma, he will be a new person. He can see pictures and things from his past self but he is now a new person.

>> No.15161177

>>15161130
You said the word "person". What is a person but his memories, relations to others, the body he inhabits, the mind which does calculations/simulations, the name he has, the mental habits, and so on? All those things being ever changing in the first place. All thats changed is the brief loss of memory which affects the continuity of his personhood.

But what if someone replaces their entire body and keeps the mind, the memory, the habits, the name, relations, etc?

Or what if they change the habits? Or if they had a different name? Or had different relations?

A person is a dynamic conceptual framework. Just like a bicycle is a dynamic framework of wheels, tires, chains, seats, handles, lights, brakes, spokes.

>> No.15161200

>>15161177
>But what if someone replaces their entire body and keeps the mind, the memory, the habits, the name, relations, etc?

That would be still the same person but with a new body. All that matters is the mind, not the body. Michael Jackson for example changed radically since he was young until he died, but he was still the same person in his head. The mind is everything what we are. The personality is in the mind.

>> No.15161210

>>15161200
>All that matters is the mind
Surely if your mind was transplanted into the body of a fish, you wouldn't be same, would you? The personhood that is would be shaped by the physiology of the new body. You'd create new memories, new habits, new outlook/dispositions, new relations. Furthermore, your daily life would shape who you are. Chasing after smaller fish, running away from bigger fish, living a life full of fear and unknown dangers, living a life directly primarily by the strong instinctual desire to mate.

>> No.15161274

>>15161210
It would be still you but now with some new fish life memories. But you know you were a human before and that you were really a human.

>> No.15161283

>>15161274
Assuming the shock of transplanting to a fish body doesn't damage the memory, the fish's own short term memory should disregard any form of human life memory

>> No.15161301

The universe is just one giant mind/consciousness. Think of reincarnation, except instead of souls going from one life to the next, we are already all incarnations.

>> No.15161333

>>15161283
So then the content of the human mind is damaged. Yeah there you are no longer the same. I think that example doesn't work.

- You die and your mind is transplanted to a clone that looks exactly like you.
- You wake up in your bed like if you were sleeping, not knowing anything happened.
- That will be you in a another body that is an artificial copy of your original natural body.
- But as you have the same mind and you don't remember anything of what happened then it will be the same as being your old self.

>> No.15161347

>>15161333
If you transplanted your brain into another human, called Bob. There is no difference between you shifting consciousness into Bob's body, and Bob suddenly having a change in personality, and different memories.

There are no souls. The universe does not discriminate between your consciousness or someone elses and there are no boundaries between you and other peoples brains. No separation is the same as being connected.

>> No.15161742

>>15161333
>cloned
Sure, now instead of one clone, do a million clone.
>it will be the same as being your old self
What is the same as being old self? Were you the same "self" you were 1 hour ago? 10 days ago? 1 years ago? As your 10 year old self? As a 1 month old baby? Surely there is no enduring self that you can call as "same" throughout the time. Everything in your body changed, your memories changed, your name changed, etc, etc. You went from few lbs to 200lb bohemoth.

So the notion that you are the "same" when you change body is bit flawed. But then again, there never was a "same" in the first place, thus even when you change the body, even when you put yourself in a robotic body, or a fish body, there is still a continuity. Even in million different bodies of all species, it could simply be a continuity in one way or another. They may not all survive the first few hours or days, and if they do survive the transition, their personalities, habits, body, memory, etc will change over time as well. Such that even if they forget their memories, if there's a record then they might be able to say "yep thats who I was 100 lifetimes ago."

>> No.15161825

>>15160710
Sure, but in an eternity of possibility some parallel universe epileptic is going to have their brain fried in a way that perfectly emulates enough of your memory for continuity.

>> No.15161828

>>15161347
source: r/atheism

>> No.15161841

>>15159195
Death is not a place of nonexistence, it is a state of inactivity & physical decay

>> No.15161881

>>15161825
Why would there be continuity? What causal connection is there between the brain states you're having now and a next state separated by space-time? How do you define what a continuing state would look like for your mind's electrochemical activity?

That's what people seem to miss. There is no "next" for a mind that has catastrophically collapsed. There's probably infinite instances of energy patterns that are perfect copies of your functional awareness in the roil of every solar body. Do you find yourself living in a long series of those disjointed awareness moments, or do you find a linear experience as a biological being with a seemingly stable environment?

>> No.15162067

>>15161881
You're undercounting the continuous timelines. You can continue down some highly improbable path and wake up in some sort of disjointed universe, sure, but you're far more likely to follow one that's causally linked as there are way more of those relative to improbable ones. Schizo respawn is like a 1/googol, waking up in your bed is like .9999/1, and there are endless permutations regarding what time you wake up, how you feel, etc that from your perspective would all be completely seamless.

>> No.15162117

>>15159936
Consciousness and body are like a married couple. They can in theory exist independently but their identity as a couple resides only in their shared memories. When your wife dies and you find a new woman you have to start dating again from zero, no shared history. If reincarnation happens this is how it works. The past life is lost, it was attached to the past body.

>> No.15162135

>>15162067
What other timelines? I'm just addressing the fallacy of the continued conscious moment thing. There are no other timelines. I mean, nothing that appears to encroach on our linear and bound experience as a biological moment.

>> No.15162172

>>15162117
But how do you know that the coupling creates what "I" am? It is completely inconceivable to know anything of my body, unless it is through consciousness. The primacy of consciousness is thus undeniable. How does consciousness get married to a body?

>> No.15162920

>>15161347
>If you transplanted your brain into another human, called Bob. There is no difference between you shifting consciousness into Bob's body, and Bob suddenly having a change in personality, and different memories.
Yeah that is the same. I meant transplanting the content of the mind, not the brain itself.

>The universe does not discriminate between your consciousness or someone else's and there are no boundaries between you and other peoples brains. No separation is the same as being connected.
I don't get what you mean by that. What do you mean by "the universe"? And what do you mean saying that there are no boundaries between people's brains?

>>15161742
>Surely there is no enduring self that you can call as "same" throughout the time.
Yes we are the same but with more memories but we are aware that we have been the same all the time.

>> No.15163011

Even if you live a thousand lives from now, you will still be posting on the /sci/ board about nonsense humans can never know the answer to.

>> No.15163084

>>15162920
>same memories
So if you take away the memories or add in memories, we can conclude the memories aren't "you" that you think is the "same" across ages/bodies/time. Unless you're claiming that "you"'re actually extra physical and the memories are part of you before you were born and after you were born and can never be parted or created in the first place.

>> No.15163710

>>15163084
It's difficult to know what you mean. Try to write in a simpler way.

I will give you another example:

- A man lives 60 years and then has an accident and loses all his memories.
- He doesn't know who he has been, he doesn't recognize his wife or children.
- That is like if that man he was in the past has died because he doesn't remember anything about him.

The body is just a vessel, all that we are is in the brain.

>> No.15163828

thats cope and you know it.
your consciousness didn't existe before you were born and there is no reason why it should remain after you die

>> No.15163885

>>15159158
"MY consciousness"
>he still thinks consciousness is a thing

>> No.15163995

>>15159911
You are correct. Most philosophy is just the musings of wealthy and well of people with no real skills, but who publish their shower thoughts and popularize them enough to trick the midwits into thinking they're valid due to the authority position of its originator.

>> No.15165619

>>15159193
you only exist in my head

>> No.15165883

Thats Cp

>> No.15165913

>>15159193
Scientifically, no, not really, but the materialist view is for faggots so yeah lol lmao

>> No.15165983

>>15159158
>Do you really believe this?
It's weird, but why not?

>> No.15165986

>>15160939
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vFGKHzY_38

>> No.15166867

>>15159158
Such questions are outside of what can be known. I personally believe that my subjective experience will continue. But this is not a belief that can be backed up by any objective knowledge.