/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.15088468]

Don't know if this is so much /sci/ as /scifi/, but I was thinking about Neuralink and how they can supposedly feed stuff like visual stimuli into your brain. So what would stop someone from just feeding a constant pleasure signal? Imagine the most potent drug but then it feels even better than that, and you don't want to do anything besides sit there feeling good

Would this not be absolutely catastrophic for society, surely it would have to be regulated somehow. Then we get into some cyberpunk bullshit where there's an underground black market for jailbroken brain chips. Maybe I'm getting ahead of things here

[Anonymous No.15088471]

>>>/lit/21453564

[Anonymous No.15088477]

>>15088468
What is a cellphone with internet access?

[Anonymous No.15088713]

I don't think Neuralink is going anywhere. It's a pipe dream that they're shoving money and dead monkeys into hoping it'll amount to something. But technologically nothing's changed to make it more viable.

However if it ever does work, I think it'll have the greatest application in mental health. Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, digital anti-depressants or mood alterations/boosters. Ghost in the Shell even alludes to this with cyberized brains having a feature called "autistic mode" that they can turn on or off with a thought.

>So what would stop someone from just feeding a constant pleasure signal?
I think the nerves would become desensitized, then you'd be incapable of feeling any pleasure

>black market for jail broken brain chips
not entirely unimpossible, tho honestly who'd want to risk it?

[Anonymous No.15088719]

>>15088468
What if you raped her while she were getting the green goo?

[Anonymous No.15088757]

>>15088468
read infinite jest

[Anonymous No.15088764]

>>15088719
Then she'd be filled with green goo and white goo.

[Anonymous No.15089472]

>>15088468
Isn't pleasure from dopamine etc? I imagine your body has a limited supply and it takes time to make more. I guess if you had it on show release or something it might work but it may not be enough to notice it I don't know

[Anonymous No.15089500]

>>15088468
No good without evil
No pleasure without pain
overtime the brain will identify less pleasure as pain, leading to tolerance affect, leading to high dosages, leading to high deviations from homeostatis, leading to wear and tare on the body

not only is it biologically nill, but psychologically nil as well

[Anonymous No.15089535]

>>15089500
All of this is remediable with synthesized solutions radically less than "leave the damn pleasure cube".
The pleasure cube scenario is achievable, and on the scale of all sci-fi tech, I say it ranks in "very".
This is something that a lot of smart people will have to think long and hard about, before it becomes a problem.

[Anonymous No.15089562]

>>15089535
I dont think it will be without reintroducing the concept of death. The mind at somepoint will need to forget the pleasure response feedback loop to reset it, and given there is no independent system in the body, dis imbibing the pleasure response will cascade to disembodying a soul from the body.

For myself, i come back to the conclusion its possible that the cycle of reincarnation is such pleasure cube, using death to choreograph this process, especially in instances where pleasure can easily be re identified as pain and vice versa

[Anonymous No.15089581]

>>15088468
>what would stop someone from just feeding a constant pleasure signal
Your body habituating to the signal. Pretty much why drugs get raised to overdose levels before you adapt at a genetic level.

[Anonymous No.15089586]

>>15089562
Well the premium luxury improved Made in Germany Apple Gamer-LEDs cooked by a French Michelin star chef version of the rudimentary Bronze Age Pleasure Cube is Nozick's experience machine, which essentially simulates all your senses/inputs (in most variants completely without drugging). The EM specifically is designed to maximize a certain maximization variant of your subjective wellbeing, which means living an optimum life in a simulated reality.

The pleasure cube works on drugs and some mild input steering, like screens and speakers.
The PC optimizes pleasure in clients, but less intelligently than the EM system.

The solution for PC is to just balance segments of the day in pure ecstasy, with such of profound ataraxia. This alone will mitigate 90% of your damage.
For your advanced measures needed, I don't see why a client can't be put into a k-hole or other such state sporadically to recalibrate them, and surgery is another option. In the mid-term future we can expect local medical drones doing that job.

[Anonymous No.15089589]

>>15088468
>what would stop someone from just feeding a constant pleasure signal?
Maybe the fact that there is no such thing, and either way, your brain would eventually start to compensate and return to equilibrium.

[Anonymous No.15089597]

>>15088468

[Anonymous No.15089599]

>>15088468
>underground black market for jailbroken brain chips.

sounds pretty cool, ngl

[Anonymous No.15089600]

>>15089597
i don't see the problem here.

[Anonymous No.15089601]

>>15089581
Surely there will be ways to bypass tolerance. It's an engineering problem. Many types of pain build no tolerance (neuropathic pain, cluster headaches, etc.). There must be analogous ways by which pleasure without tolerance can be induced.

>>15088468
As soon as what you've described comes to fruition, everything we know about society and humanity will fundamentally and permanently change. In the same way that friends, family, and morals cease to factor into a drug addicts decisions--their motivation being completely subsumed by the desire to get the next hit--such quaint things will completely lose all status to those who use the pleasure machines. Nothing will be sacred anymore; all that will matter will be the acquisition and continued enjoyment of the engineered pleasure. Complete abstinence will be the only method of avoidance. Perhaps society will divide itself into a group of caretakers who remain permanently abstinent from the pleasure machines and a group of drooling pleasure drones. Or perhaps 99% of humanity will starve in ecstasy in the machines, and the Amish will inherit the earth. Or maybe society will be legally structured such that everyone lives normally (school, work, so on) until the age of 40, at which point you are legally allowed to enter the machine.

[Anonymous No.15089602]

>>15089562
What if you could design a compound that essentially "resets" the pleasure pathways back to default?

[Anonymous No.15089607]

I just return to persistent state and demiurgic nihilism. The pain rends, malforms, and removes the very desire for pleasure itself. Whats a pleasure maximizing function to do if there is the objective function is multiplying by zero on every node in the neural net? This is why i dont think anything short of death can sporadically recalibrate a conscious organism. and though hard to see (likely by necessity) that one is already inside the pleasure cube, just that these input steerings adopted to change over the course of many lifetimes, with always a reset point of saving or not saving the incarnation in the soul state between being shoved back into the box

[Anonymous No.15089608]

>>15089602
>>15089607
>>15089586
missed the reply, i dont think its possible as, the pleasure feedback loop is connected to all other parts of the body, there will be a negative externality of source, a waste pill that grows over time and eventually needs purging

[Anonymous No.15089609]

>>15089608
negative externality of sorts, a waste pile*

i need to sleep

[Anonymous No.15089614]

>>15089597
But where does she poop?

[Anonymous No.15089632]

>>15089614
There's a hole in the chair for that. With an automatic bidet and dryer.

[Anonymous No.15089639]

>>15089597

[Anonymous No.15089797]

>>15088468
We already have better BCI product called Synchron that doesn't drill a hole in your head and it can't even do the stuff neurolink hypes up about.
>So what would stop someone from just feeding a constant pleasure signal? Imagine the most potent drug but then it feels even better than that, and you don't want to do anything besides sit there feeling good
Overfrying your brain for pleasure is just mental opioids at this point. Reality would probably be much boring where this kind of thing only happens to people who can't receive any dopamine whatsoever, and it'll probably be a highly specific invasive product that will kill them in time. Best thing you could do is use neurolink/synchron to study the brain even further and see what kind of specific part of the brain that will make you happy and companies will develop drugs that target it.

[Anonymous No.15089860]

>>15089597
This makes me wonder who did the matrix first? Maybe some story from ancient Greece?

[Anonymous No.15089878]

>>15089639
powerful................
however, the simulation computation power of a universe of rocks is impossibly slow since the dude can only really move a few rocks at a time, really it just seems kinda dumb if you stop to think about it

[Anonymous No.15089881]

>>15088477
A miserable little pile of TikTok videos.

[Anonymous No.15090098]

>>15088468
Neuralink is fore readout from the brain, not feeding stuff into it. That is what Apple and FB are interested in.

[Anonymous No.15090104]

>>15089601
>As soon as what you've described comes to fruition, everything we know about society and humanity will fundamentally and permanently change. In the same way that friends, family, and morals cease to factor into a drug addicts decisions--their motivation being completely subsumed by the desire to get the next hit--such quaint things will completely lose all status to those who use the pleasure machines. Nothing will be sacred anymore; all that will matter will be the acquisition and continued enjoyment of the engineered pleasure. Complete abstinence will be the only method of avoidance. Perhaps society will divide itself into a group of caretakers who remain permanently abstinent from the pleasure machines and a group of drooling pleasure drones. Or perhaps 99% of humanity will starve in ecstasy in the machines, and the Amish will inherit the earth. Or maybe society will be legally structured such that everyone lives normally (school, work, so on) until the age of 40, at which point you are legally allowed to enter the machine.
simultaneously horrifying and terrible yet also a fitting punishment for the way most humans behave.

[Anonymous No.15090253]

>>15090098
I thought they showed off that camera thing which could in principle help a blind person see

[Anonymous No.15090874]

>>15090253
I checked again and you are right that something like visins is planned for the next version.
This could be similar to the phosphene stimulation which is already well known. The problem las, last time I checked, that the neural interfacing wears out over time.

[Anonymous No.15090909]

>>15088468
If you want euphoria there is a type of meditation that's fairly easy to attain that will give it to you. You could be giving up and staying that state all day. It will also be much more sustainable than drugs or what you suggest, though like those you will encounter problems with the brain. Problems with basic functioning like generating motivation and a host of mental illnesses as well. Your brain will decay in all this. But as I said the meditation is the most sustainable of these. And who knows you might accidentally end up in more refined states beyond mere pleasure and meditative euphoria.

[Anonymous No.15090918]

>>15090909
>If you want euphoria-
Heroin

[Anonymous No.15090992]

>>15090104
>simultaneously horrifying and terrible yet also a fitting punishment
If god wants to punish someone, he gives them everything what they want.
If god wants to reward some one, he gives them only what they need.

[Anonymous No.15090995]

>>15090918
I think people build tolerance for it pretty fast, due to the serotonin getting depleted. But in the case of these brain interfaces, would it really be the same thing? Those drugs rely on stimulating serotonin receptors for the euphoria, but what if you could just activate the receptors directly to make them feed a feel good signal constantly?

In the end it's just electric currents activating logic gates essentially, the body simply relies on opening those gates with neurotransmitters. But these devices could bypass all of that and just make x transmitter operate at full capacity constantly. What does society look like after that becomes possible? People dream about VR enabling your wildest fantasies and whatever, like having some retarded Star Trek holodeck that lets you live out whatever you want to do. But what if you could make yourself feel infinitely better just by activating x receptor, that would be absolutely catastrophic

[Anonymous No.15092102]

>>15088471
Did not mention Eudeamon. Fail.

[Anonymous No.15092620]

>>15088471
Generals are cancer

[Anonymous No.15092767]

>>15089597
grim

[Anonymous No.15092777]

>>15089878
>he thinks the clock rate on the rock simulation is the same as the time in the simulation itself

mega dumb