/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.15082846]

Without any of the /pol/ garbage, how have biologists convinced themselves that only there's only one species of an organism numbering in the 100s of billions, who have spent tens of thousands of years living in drastically different climates and environments.

It's not necessarily exclusive to black people, it's ridiculous to think that for example, Native Americans and Middle Easterns are the exact same despite all the thousands, if not millions of variables between the environment they adapt to.

It feels like if any animal had consistent differences in color, skeletal structure, and even chemical composition, we'd easily be separating them into groups.

[Anonymous No.15082855]

Can you knock up a black woman? Then she's the same species as you.

[Anonymous No.15082860]

>>15082855
By that logic we are the same species as Neanderthals and other proto-humans that we supposedly mated out of existence

[Anonymous No.15082865]

>>15082855
oh, give me a break. even when they came up with this “definition” hundreds of years ago they already knew it was flawed because of mules. By now it has been totally supplanted by better definitions, all of which when consistently applied will put the Negroid into at least a separate subspecies

[Anonymous No.15082926]

>>15082855
>donkeys and horses are the same species
>lions and tigers are the same species
https://guardian.ng/news/genetic-makeup-of-12-year-old-angolan-boy-in-dispute/

[Anonymous No.15082986]

Darwin could be right about some things and wrong about others. There is no scientific basis for racism and no biological basis for race.

[Anonymous No.15082989]

>>15082926
These hybrids are sterile

>>15082860
These hybrids probably had reduced fertility.

>>15082855
These hybrids are as fertile as their parents and thus there is just a societal and no biological limit to reproduction.

Hybrids and hybrid fertility suck as a species concept.
For biodiversity conservatuon, species is increasingly irrelevant and replaced by Evolutionary Significant Unit (ESU).

[Anonymous No.15082995]

>>15082855
https://www.arch.ox.ac.uk/article/ancient-humans-neanderthals-and-denisovans-were-able-easily-produce-healthy-fertile-hybrids
https://kids.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/frym.2019.00113

[Anonymous No.15083005]

.

[Anonymous No.15083034]

>>15082986
>There is no scientific basis for racism and no biological basis for race.
- different bone densities
- different average cranial cavity volumes
- different mineral/hormone levels
- different body types
- different gene prevalences
Etcetera
https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/71/6/1392/4729362
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S016028960200137X
We evolved in very different environments; why would you expect us to be indistinct from one another I.e exactly the same?

[Anonymous No.15083043]

>>15082989
>probably had reduced fertility
Do you realise how ridiculous this sounds? Regardless of how deformed the hybrid is (which you don't even have proof of), the fact that it exists in the first place is enough to undermine the notion of species as mateable groups.

[Anonymous No.15083047]

>>15082989
>probably had reduced fertility
See >>15082995

[Anonymous No.15083052]

>>15082986
This thread isn't about racism, it's about the well known biological fact of species.
So far no one has mentioned the infinitesimally low chance for a species as variant and geographically distributed as humans to NOT have subspecies

[Anonymous No.15083073]

It's easy to tell if someone has never taken a biology class because they will hammer about "species" without knowing they are very arbitrary and cataloguing living beings is not the same as cataloguing chemical elements or elemental particles

[Anonymous No.15083158]

>>15083073
It's only made arbitrary and vague because of the simple fact that any concrete categorization would inevitably divide humans into different subspecies, which would be social suicide nowadays, pseud-kun.

[Anonymous No.15083163]

>>15083158
>bro trust me, the whole discipline of taxonomy revolves around keeping racists at bay
yeah sure, whatever.
maybe work with an actual taxonomist next time

[Anonymous No.15083170]

>>15083163
>upholding your academic reputation and having journals and bridges open to you is "keeping the racists away"
Have you ever published anything ever, brainlet? It's almost entirely a social game.

[Anonymous No.15083184]

>>15083170
If two bugs are extemely similar on the inside and outside but one has 4 legs and one has 6, they will be categorized as different species.
This doesn't tell you how genetically different they are, this doesn't tell you if they act in meaningfully different ways.
You're just a racist trying to shoehorn your /pol/-tier understanding of taxonomy in order to justify your beliefs

[Anonymous No.15083187]

>>15083073
>Subspecies is an arbitrary category that coincidentally never made it's way into humans, which are more internally genetically diverse than animals with multiple subspecies.
You realise how dumb this sounds? Instead of waffling on, just produce a valid reason why humans should be categorised as one singular species in spite of all the vast differences mentioned in OP, and despite the fact that animals have been divided into subspecies for comparatively tiny differences relative to humans.

[Anonymous No.15083189]

>>15082846
>noooooooooooooo no le heckin /pol/erino im going insaaaaaaaaaaane

[Anonymous No.15083190]

>>15082846
>how have *people in area of work* convinced themselves of/that *insert thing here*
easy, roofs are comfy to have, but they have an upkeep, simple as

[Anonymous No.15083197]

>>15083184
Wow! Taxonomic categories aren't directly linked to genetic differences, but are merely correlated, something that would very likely manifest itself as at least a single subspecies in an organism as diverse as humans?! Who could have known???

Hope this a larping high schooler.

[Anonymous No.15083200]

>>15082989
>These hybrids are sterile
Indeed, although Black-White mixes are not sterile and males are not absent, males (the heterogametic sex) are more rare than females.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/1537084

The argument regarding Haldane’s rule is also meaningless because different species in the animal kingdom can breed and still produce fertile offspring. The wolf (Canis lupus) and the dog (Canis lupus familiaris), the coyote (Canis latrans), and the common jackal (Canis aureus) are separate species yet can all interbreed and produce fertile offspring.
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/3671304?uid=3739600&uid=2&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=47699085472247

[Anonymous No.15083202]

>>15082986
>There is no scientific basis for racism and no biological basis for race.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1828730/pdf/1471-2164-8-68.pdf
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1180234/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3951706/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1196372/

[Anonymous No.15083237]

>>15082855
Geological barriers are valid reasons for speciation. It takes nearly a million years of isolation to prevent genetic compatibility. Just because something can mate doesn't mean they would "naturally" given geological and social barriers barriers. Grizzly and Polar Bears, for example.

[Anonymous No.15083251]

>>15082855
those famous darwin's finches are different species, but can interbreed

[Anonymous No.15083253]

The big conceit here is collapsing flawed historical folk definitions of race into the concept of heritable traits in inbreeding populations of humans.

What is the probability that a couple from Africa will produce a child with the average genome of a Melanesian? Vanishingly low.

[Anonymous No.15083269]

>>15082846
>we'd easily be separating them into groups.
yeah but… to what end? what is the utility of doing this? is it to justify the creation of an ethnostate? is it to justify genocide? why does it matter? even without the “objective” backing of science, faggot OP hates niggers anyways. would “science” agreeing with you just make you feel less guilty about it? idk. seems stupid.

[Anonymous No.15083297]

>>15083269
>is it to justify the creation of an ethnostate?
No, it's to undermine the ideal of the mongrelstate.

[Anonymous No.15083311]

>>15083297
the entire earth is a mongrel-state. you cannot purify DNA like you can purify elements in chemistry, because all life is essentially comprised of the same chemical. the only contaminant is seething impotent rage like the kind seen itt

[Anonymous No.15083315]

>>15083311
Thanks for going out of your way to demonstrate my point. Acknowledging biological realities is basic mental hygiene. It's the first-line defense against developing whatever mental illness you are suffering from.

[Anonymous No.15083320]

>we need to import more third wordlers and encourage whites to breed with them because life is essentially comprised of he same chemical, chud!
i almost died laughing

[Anonymous No.15083340]

>>15083315
>I can’t argue against him, so instead I’ll say that the thing he called me is the thing that HE is, omg I’m so clever!
yawn

>>15083320
/qa/ lost

[Anonymous No.15083341]

>>15083297
Too bad that all of the world would end up being classified in thousand of different subspecies if one followed any reasonable classification, and the only "pure" areas would be fucking isolated shitholes.

[Anonymous No.15083347]

>>15083340
What am I supposed to argue against? You asked why it matters if people acknowledge the fallacy of a singular "human race", I told you why and you immediately devolved into religious chanting.

[Anonymous No.15083348]

>>15083341
Worthless strawman.

[Anonymous No.15083364]

>>15083347
>I told you why and you immediately devolved into religious chanting.
why is it “religious chanting” to contend that human classification of life-forms is arbitrary, but somehow it’s not religious chanting to imply that a more strict application of said classification would undermine the creation of an “ideal mongrelstate”? hypothetically, what’s step 2 of your master plan after successfully convincing the world that some people are less human than others? how does it follow logically that if we just change the names of things, we fundamentally change something about reality? isn’t this tranny logic? I’m not chanting religiously, I’m asking you to apply the same degree of skepticism towards your own biases as you apply to the idea that black people and white people are fundamentally the same. it’s weak to simply disagree and use anons as a sounding board with which to construct post-hoc justifications based on opposition to their arguments rather than carrying an argument which stands on axiomatic principles

[Anonymous No.15083367]

>>15083364
>why is it “religious chanting” to contend that human classification of life-forms is arbitrary
Because calling it "arbitrary" doesn't prove or disprove anything in this context, so you're clearly just chanting a talking point to soothe your cognitive dissonance.

[Anonymous No.15083379]

>>15083364
>i-i-it doesn't matter what concepts and relationships we break reality down into
>that's why i am foaming at the mouth defending a particular breakdown and cherrypicking which "arbitrary" classifications of the lot are worth challenging
How is it physically possible to not hate these people?

[Anonymous No.15083395]

>>15083379
by calling all of it arbitrary, I would say that’s the opposite of cherrypicking. none of the classifications mean anything, but they certainly mean something to the people who use them as justification for a given action i.e. we classified animals used as livestock separately from animals that were not. my question is what action y’all wish to justify by redefining the taxonomy of human beings, and you’re being weirdly coy about coming out and saying the thing you’re heavily implying i.e. ethnic cleansing. but keep calling me a jew I guess.

>>15083367
>Because calling it "arbitrary" doesn't prove or disprove anything in this context
nigger what. TAXONOMISTS literally concede that the system of classification is arbitrary and created by humans. it’s *useful* in that it helps humans organize life into approximations of logically consistent groupings, but it doesn’t reveal any “objective” truth to anyone except crackpots.

[Anonymous No.15083410]

>>15083395
>TAXONOMISTS literally concede that the system of classification is arbitrary and created by humans
So what? Why are you bringing this up? How is it relevant, except as an attempt to deflect/derail a discussion/soothe your asshurt?

[Anonymous No.15083413]

>>15083269
For intellectual and scientific honesty???
If each major race is very obviously a different species, then the only reason we aren't saying so is due to external social factors. What happened to scientific objectivity?

[Anonymous No.15083415]

>>15083395
>none of the classifications mean anything
So I presume you have no problem with OP's classifications and will stop replying now, since his classification is as valid as any other classification.

[Anonymous No.15083422]

>>15083395
>TAXONOMISTS
Who in the world cares? It's patently obvious to anyone without an agenda that humans could very legitimately be classified into subspecies.

Branching off about which one is better should be left to the kids on /pol/, I'm sure you're grown up enough to admit that they exist without immediately jumping to the political argument that it creates.

[Anonymous No.15083425]

>>15083422
Shhh. Find your own discussion, white nigger. You are not equipped for this.

[Anonymous No.15083427]

>>15083425
Excellent argument, these are the brainlets pushing the one species propaganda
Kek

[Anonymous No.15083428]

>>15083043
>>15083047
A lion and a tiger can mate, but only the females produced by such a union are occasionally fertile. They are obviously different species. Similarly, the absence of Neanderthal mtdna or Y chromosome in modern humans suggests that the mixed offspring too between them experienced infertility.

Also though usually the females are fertile, around generation 6 post F1 it swtiches and the females become infertile. This is why we havent found Y chromosomes OR mtdna, because the mtdna gets weeded out later.

[Anonymous No.15083429]

>>15083427
I'm not pushing the one species propaganda. I'm the other party in the discussion you're trying to infiltrate with your white nigger talking points. Kikes run circles around you every time.

[Anonymous No.15083430]

>>15083429
>>>/pol/

[Anonymous No.15083431]

>>15083410
>Who cares?
I’m responding to OP’s prompt
>Without any of the /pol/ garbage, how have biologists
the answer is that biologists do not view taxonomic identification as a revelation of objective truth

>>15083413
>For intellectual and scientific honesty???
lol. lmao, even. all science is a tool of the state.

>>15083422
once again, it was an answer to OP’s prompt. also chekd.

really loving the chuds itt giving up and trying to meta their way out of the argument or insult me rather than concede their thinly veiled attempt to create a justification for ethnic cleansing. this one was for the lurkers

[Anonymous No.15083434]

>>15083428
What part of this is relevant to the fact breeding still occurs and is thus not the sole criteria of speciation?

Is this a bot?

[Anonymous No.15083437]

>>15083431
>I’m responding to OP’s prompt
Why are you lying? We've been discussing the implications of this post: >>15083297

>the answer is that biologists do not view taxonomic identification as a revelation of objective truth
So what?

[Anonymous No.15083442]

>>15083437
dude, >>15083297 replied to my post asking for a reason why it’s important to change the classification of human beings where I first implied that the classification is arbitrary to begin with. are you being obtuse on purpose? is it not proper to ask follow up questions after an answer is given?

[Anonymous No.15083449]

>>15083442
>the classification is arbitrary to begin with
So what? You asked why it's important to reject your arbitrary classification and accept an arbitrary classification that puts Nigerians in a different mental category from, say, Germans, and I told you why: it's important because it undermines your ideology and puts the onus on you to explain why actively promoting a mongrelstate is desirable.

[Anonymous No.15083450]

>>15082846
Our definition of 'species' is arbitrary. We decided long ago that a species is any animal which can produce fertile offspring and naturally breed together often. This definition includes humans and doesn't include species such as tigers and lions you show before because those animals ranges never cross. The only reason they ever breed is when humans put them together.

At no point in time throughout human history or prehistory have humans ever been separated from each other. Even American Indians bred with people from Asia, who bred with people in the Middle East who bred with Europeans and Africans and so on and so forth. This is well known and understood. They can never be separated into a different species no matter how much you fucking morons try. The only way to separate them into different species is to twist the definition of 'species' into an incomprehensible mess which would make it useless for any other animal we come across.

So fuck off.

[Anonymous No.15083453]

>>15083434
Because while species classifications are slightly arbitrary, a barrier to interbreeding is 100% an indicator of differing species.

Also for >>15082995 I've seen studies coming out with the exact opposite conclusion. I'm inclined to believe the studies saying otherwise because genetic distance is an extremely crude measure and the absence of mtdna/Y agrees with the negative studies.

[Anonymous No.15083457]

>>15083449
>your
how many times do I have to state that I do not believe the orthodox classification of life forms? it isn’t *my* classification, it’s that of biologists and taxonomists within scientific institutions. I have never agreed or supported these institutions nor do I care to defend their arbitrary classifications. I’m asking what’s the reason for desiring a change to those classifications, and your response is that I’m an agent of the mongrelstate or some stupid bullshit

[Anonymous No.15083466]

>>15083457
>I’m asking what’s the reason for desiring a change to those classifications
Because it undermines the mongrelstate ideology (that you TOTALLY don't support), sets the "ethnostate" as a default, and puts mongrelstate ideologues on the defensive, forcing them to explain why life forms that clearly don't live together in nature should be expected to live in harmony. :^)

[Anonymous No.15083470]

>>15083450
>animals ranges never cross
Now it wouldn't be the same if lions could travel the world with their technology as humans do, retard.

[Anonymous No.15083516]

>>15083466
but the ethnostate isn’t the default. it’s been violently enforced throughout history against the nomadic nature of humans that are not impeded by any natural law to roam all corners of the earth. and undermining a “mongrelstate” doesn’t naturally lead to an ethnostate without, ahem, ethnic cleansing. is that what baby wants?

[Anonymous No.15083521]

Race does exist, it just does. Also there is research to suggest that there is a notion of a "pure" race, or a "pure" individual. Remember you go back 30-40 generations and you start to get pedigree collapse, which limits the number of ancestors you can have. As a result every European alive today is a descendent of Charlemagne, for instance.

HOWEVER the flipside is that every human alive today is descendant from a mutt. The idea of being a "mutt" is a transient thing. So for instance Latin Americans slowly over about 30-40 generations will start to homogenize, meaning that linkage disequilibrium blocks will start to break down and reform, and genes will undergo negative/positive selection such that all the genetic incompatibilities between their Native/Euro/Afro ancestries will go away. At that point they'll essentially be a new "race" if you will.

[Anonymous No.15083528]

>>15083516
>but the ethnostate isn’t the default.
Then why do your handlers need to indoctrinate people into the mongrelstate ideal and actively import foreigners on an industrial scale? They could have left people to their own devices and we would have had a perfect beige golem world order by now. :^)

[Anonymous No.15083530]

>but the way we choose species is so arbitrary!
The mere idea of species, of specialization, is arbitrary. What more is an organism than its organs? And those aren't significantly different to you?
Their morphology is SO different, right? Despite them having 99.9999% similar DNA, the organs are so wildly different, right? They must be a different species.

[Anonymous No.15083555]

>>15083530
The kike knows. It intentionally cherrypicks categories to undermine when it suits the tribe's agenda. If the kike actually believed in what it spouts and was willing to apply it consistently, it would become a buddhist monk.

[Anonymous No.15083563]

>>15083528
because your assumption that a secret cabal of jews is manufacturing a mongrelstate is an invention of your imagination and not anything to do with reality. can’t help you there, pal. and I don’t worship jews or materialism or anything on this accursed planet except the inevitability of its complete destruction. see you then.

[Anonymous No.15083575]

>>15083555
sick trips. spoiler alert, you have been speaking to a radical buddhist this entire time. I don’t support the status quo of bullshit scientific institutions just as much as I don’t support the implicit assumptions of racial supremacy spouted by amateur bullshit artists on this website. I resist belief in any man-made label or idea, but we are once again steering the conversation away from a defense of your impoverished ideology to one where you attempt to divine personal details about your opponent to attack their character rather than their argument. sadly, you didn’t bother asking about the person you’re talking to and just assumed they were some ZOG acolyte when in reality the only thing that would bring me more joy than the annihilation of Israel would be the summary annihilation of the Earth itself. I’m sure you’ll think of some clever personal insult based in what little I’ve given you, and I’m sure everyone will be impressed at how based you are.

[Anonymous No.15083581]

>>15083563
I'm sorry. It's not a secret cabal of jews. It's an accountable and transparent association of diverse and well-meaning minds working together for a just and united world. Anyway, why do they need to educate us about the wonders of racial diversity and encourage mass migration if diversity and racial harmony are a natural default? Look, all I want you to know is that I'm thankful for your effort in snapping me out of the liberal democracy/human rights delusion and making me see that some "people" need to have their legs broken to teach them to keep their mouthes shut,

[Anonymous No.15083589]

>>15083575
>you have been speaking to a radical buddhist this entire time
There is no such thing as a "radical" buddhist. Buddhists are perfectly happy with the kind of oldschool social order where mass migration and "racial diversity" would have been unthinkable.

[Anonymous No.15083650]

>>15083589
>There is no such thing as a "radical" buddhist.
thanks for confirming that your perception of reality precludes the existence of things that are under your nose

>>15083581
the degree of misery you conjure up for yourself with your own imagination is that exactly how I’d use it, but it’s damn impressive nonetheless. puts historical ascetics to shame

[Anonymous No.15083662]

>>15083650
>thanks for confirming that your perception of reality precludes the existence of things that are under your nose
It's pretty funny how insistent you are about our classification as a "buddhist" for someone who rejects all classifications. Seriously, how is it physically possible not to harbor hatred against you? I know it sounds like a rhetorical question, but some part of me genuinely wonders. How can I develop empathy and understanding towards a "person" this vile and dishonest, buddhistically speaking?

[Anonymous No.15083701]

>>15083662
to be honest, I don’t strictly define myself as a buddhist, hence the use of “radical”. even then, the classifications are nothing but mere symbols meant to communicate some meaning. the other anon said
> If the kike actually believed in what it spouts and was willing to apply it consistently, it would become a buddhist monk
and I merely adopted the classification given to me as needed to suit the needs of the discussion. to address your other problem, I can only speak to my efforts toward feeing empathy for all things which exist in what is called “reality”, for my perception tells me that all things radiate heat and any one thing’s attempt to preserve that heat within their material form is essentially an abstract description of the suffering that living things feel. in other words, to exist at all is to horde and protect heat that would otherwise be immediately lost were it not contained in a body whether it be an atomic nucleus or a stellar object.

tl;dr if the extent of your empathy is conditional on some given trait, it’s not real empathy but instead some form of tribalist identification, which is limited in ways that empathy is not.

I’d like to take a second to point out that as soon as I gave some meaningless detail about myself, the discussion immediately shifted to one about that detail as I predicted. but I’m sure I only know that because I’m a filthy ZOG nigger kike faggot, amirite? :)

[Anonymous No.15083703]

>>15083701
>to be honest, I don’t strictly define myself as a buddhist, hence the use of “radical”
My god, you are disgusting.

[Anonymous No.15083706]

>>15083703
and you are a slave to your emotions. maybe when I get tired of fucking your mother I can be the father that stepped up and teach you a thing or two about the value of peace

[Anonymous No.15083708]

>you are a slave to your emotions
>y-your m-mom! f-fucking y-your heckin' MOM!

[Anonymous No.15083711]

>>15083708
/qa/ lost

[Anonymous No.15083717]

>>15083711
In the end of the day, you will always be a lowly pile of filth, even to yourself.

[Anonymous No.15083798]

>>15083717
and at the end of the day, I will still be capable of loving myself as a lowly pile of filth, in addition to all other lowly piles of filth, in a way that you will refuse to ever love yourself. cheers.

[Anonymous No.15083823]

>>15082860
>Can you knock up a black woman? Then she's the same species as you.
>>15082989
>These hybrids are sterile

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalposts

[Anonymous No.15083871]

>>15083798
>I will still be capable of loving myself
What makes you think you're capable of a unique feat that no other person on this planet can pull off? Literally no one will ever love you.

[Anonymous No.15084399]

>>15083413
something tells me you don't actually give a shit about intellectual honesty