/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.15079284]

I don't get it. Can someone please explain the experiment where they disproved free will? How do you determine the moment where a person makes a conscious decision? You can't see it in their brain activity since this is what we want to correlate with the actual event. But when you rely on their subjective report you cannot determine the delay up to milliseconds.

[Anonymous No.15079307]

>>15079284
A mongoloid charlatan asked some test subjects to perform a task that requires no conscious decisionmaking and determined that whatever arbitrary subconscious factors determined their decision preceded the conscious regulation of this decision. Therefore you are a biological golem. It's pseudoscience. Case closed.

[Anonymous No.15079356]

Latency doesn't matter. It is logical incoherent. Everything has cause and effect so free will would require a "soul" or whatever independent of laws of reality. People are only defensive of the concept because otherwise it'd break their egos.
inb4 "consciousness is immaterial" /x/ schizos

[Anonymous No.15079382]

>>15079356
>Everything has cause and effect
What caused the universe to exist?

[Anonymous No.15079405]

>>15079356
You are mentally ill.

[Anonymous No.15079423]

aah the famous penis experiment. Has to be conducted with a woman that strokes your penis until you coom. This disproves free will. Trust the experts

[Anonymous No.15079446]

>>15079423
Does it work with a trans woman as well?

[Anonymous No.15079474]

>>15079356
your materialistic view is dogmatic and current human understanding of the brain, psyche, and actual consciousness are completely nil

[Anonymous No.15079477]

>>15079382
Brahman.

[Anonymous No.15079513]

>>15079382
Itself, its called self-realisation

[Anonymous No.15079541]

>>15079284
You did not link the study.
We can see the process of decision making in the brain leading up to an action. Also our actions can have the reverse effect like when we smile it tells our brain we are happy because we are doing the action. And you can think about things and imagine them and your brain and body will act as if you are doing those things.

There are still a lot of things we do not know.

[Anonymous No.15079550]

>>15079541
>We can see the process of decision making in the brain leading up to an action.
No, we can't. Where are all these sci-fi redditors coming from?

[Anonymous No.15079614]

>>15079474
Then why discuss it? All your knowledge is completely nil, everything you come up with is completely nil. If we dont rely on what we understand, we can rely on nothing and everything we rely on points to free will being irrational no matter how desperately we wish to believe it. The only thing that gives any evidence to free will is that our feelings says its true

[Anonymous No.15079619]

>>15079614
>everything we rely on points to free will being irrational no matter how desperately we wish to believe it.
Proof?

[Anonymous No.15079627]

>>15079619
Only if you put more effort into your reply

[Anonymous No.15079629]

>>15079627
Sorry, I don't know of a more effortful way to ask for justification of your irrational claims.

[Anonymous No.15079632]

>>15079629
Then fuck you, ill wait for someone better

[Anonymous No.15079634]

>>15079632
That's okay. I don't consider you human, or had any intentions of discussing anything with you. I was simply triggering your perfectly predictable response of shrinking away and deflecting. Your position is indefensible.

[Anonymous No.15079644]

>>15079284
Libet's experiment didn't disprove libertarian free will. But libertarian free will is physically incoherent, it's disproven logically. No experiment needed

[Anonymous No.15079645]

>>15079644
Libet's experiment didn't prove or disprove anything. It was a completely pointless.

[Anonymous No.15079965]

>>15079284
>Can someone please explain the experiment where they disproved free will?
They gave test subjects a button they could push, and used an EEG to measure brainwaves. Whenever a subject decided to push the button, his brainwaves would change a moment before (about 0.2s before) any apparent movement of the hands or mouth or anything. It seemed from these experiments that the decision to push or not to push was already “locked in” before the subject was aware of making any conscious decision. “No free will” is an interesting way of expressing it but it’s basically clickbait designed to make someone famous (it worked, which is why we’ve all heard of this experiment)

[Anonymous No.15079970]

>>15079965
That's a very bizarre interpretation considering we know that the act of deciding something and the body's physical movements have a lag time between them. Reaction times are a well-studied thing.

[Anonymous No.15080020]

>>15079970
yeah it’s clickbait for redditors. but it is interesting because the EEG readings also appeared to precede any conscious decisionmaking. so it seems like a contradiction if you believe the mind should be one big atomic thing that governs all other things going on in the body.

On the other hand if you are not a redditor then you can put a little thought into it and find that is pretty obviously not the case, e.g. as you’ve said reaction times like from a baseball catcher couldn’t possibly go through a conscious decisionmaking process. so experiments like this maybe get us a little closer to understanding whats really going on

[Anonymous No.15080032]

>>15080020
It's also probably worth pointing out that decisions and word formation (i.e. the actualization of explaining to someone that you made a decision) are two different levels of cognitive effort utilizing different parts of the brain. There are even types of learning disability where a discontinuity between the higher functions of reading and writing and the lower functions of internal thought makes people slow down and have difficulty writing or reading even though they understand the language.

[Anonymous No.15080054]

>>15079284
There is no experiment which proves OR disproves the claim of free will. It is an ill defined question from philosophers which is beyond scientific inquiry.

Either just ignore the matter (what does it matter? would you change how you live and act if you were persuaded one way or the other?), or follow the Rush song. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnxkfLe4G74

[Anonymous No.15080200]

>>15079284
Problem is that you have to PROVE something for it to exist. You cannot prove the existence of free will, so the lack of it is the default situation.

[Anonymous No.15081333]

>>15080200
You can’t PROVE that anyone except yourself is even conscious or self aware, so by default we’re all bots right?