/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.15049742]

at what point does materialism fail?

[Anonymous No.15049743]

my waifu <3

[Anonymous No.15049752]

>>15049742
with a cure for aphantasia so the materialists can actually have an inner experience and qualia

we'll give them souls whether they like it or not

[Anonymous No.15049753]

>>15049742
When trying to figure out if a cat in a box is alive or dead

[Anonymous No.15049756]

>>15049742
It's been under attack from philosophers and theologists for millennia but still reigns supreme

[Anonymous No.15049758]

>>15049756
Materialism is a very modern sickness and will soon pass.

[Anonymous No.15049762]

>>15049758
Your ancestors kept saying that for thousands of years and now you're here repeating it like a poor fool. I can only pity you

[Anonymous No.15049767]

>>15049762
My ancestors didn't even know what materialism was, because it wasn't invented until modernity became terminal.

[Anonymous No.15049770]

>>15049767
You're clueless about it but your brand of luddism is not new or interesting. It is just a reflection of your failure to healthily fit into a society

[Anonymous No.15049779]

>>15049770
Most humans are luddites. They hate the computers that enslave them at their job and don't behave the way they want.

[Anonymous No.15049794]

>>15049770
>It is just a reflection of your failure to healthily fit into a society
Can you say with a straight face that today's society, which believes in nothing except self-gratification, is healthy?

[Anonymous No.15049801]

>>15049794
I can say that you've spent too much time online for your own good

[Anonymous No.15049804]

>>15049801
what's your excuse for being here, then?

[Anonymous No.15049809]

>>15049804
My capacity for staying online and still being mentally healthy is higher than yours

[Anonymous No.15049813]

>>15049809
your self-refutation is at least consistent

[Anonymous No.15050127]

i guess main issue with materialism is that we do not have direct access to matter, we have access to perceptions, matter is a concept we overlay on perceptions

for example you can have a perception with matter, like when you reach for an object and touch it, but also you can have perception without corresponding matter, such as when you experience an optical illusion or a phantom pain

but all this is not necessarily contradictory to "materialism", because some people when they say the term they just mean a few things:
>consciousness is always local to a nervous system
>no god or anything supernatural that can dodge physics entirely (we can always be wrong about physics, but thats a separate issue)

[Anonymous No.15050139]

>>15049742
At boiling point of material.

[Anonymous No.15050166]

>>15050127
Idealism doesn't deny physics. Physics describe the behavior a subset of mental content. Physics is mental from top to bottom. Physics is knowledge gained from minds describing and quantifying virtual/informational data streams which we call physical and which are rendered in minds. The model that this stuff had an objective, observer independent defined values in an objective spacetime reality was only ever a model that got falsified fully starting last century and culminating in bell's theorem and the experimental verification thereof and the closing of all of the loopholes that can be tested.

[Anonymous No.15050171]

>>15049756
It doesn't rain supreme. Materialist copers had to change the name to physicalism when it became clear that even the biggest proponents had to admit that there were things like information that were clearly not made of mater and it's motion. even before that it was never the dominant position. German idealism was the dominant position still leading of to the 20th century. The vienna circle jews tried hard to banish metaphysics but failed.

[Anonymous No.15051208]

Materialists ascribe sense-dependent and mind-dependent properties to objects and then they imagine those properties persist in the absence of an experiencing subject.

[Anonymous No.15051330]

>>15049742
>at what point does materialism fail?
Consciousness and quantum mechanics

[Anonymous No.15051915]

>>15049742
When you try to observe it. Go ahead, tell me how monkey make measure using only material conditions, pro tip. You can't.

[Anonymous No.15052212]

ideas don't have matter, so it fails from the start

[Anonymous No.15052398]

>>15050171
>rain supreme
Why didn't you just cut and paste from the anon you're quoting? Anyone who bothered reading your post would still know you're a retard, but at least it wouldn't be quite this embarrassing.

[Anonymous No.15052399]

>>15052212
>ideas
just neurons firing bro

[Anonymous No.15052477]

>>15049758
It survives due to stupidity.

[Anonymous No.15052478]

>>15049742

You can not in principle explain consciousness from non-conscious, quantitative stuff called matter. Pretty obvious, but most insist on this stupid metaphysics.

[Anonymous No.15052481]

[Anonymous No.15052510]

>>15049742
Whenever it disagrees with what I already believe.

[Anonymous No.15052514]

>>15049752
>using the "aphantasia exists" cope
You can defeat materialism without resorting to pseudoscience

[Anonymous No.15052530]

>>15049742
300 years ago

[Anonymous No.15052550]

>>15049758
i dislike hipocritism, its one of the worst things too

[Anonymous No.15052586]

>>15049742
It fails the moment you realize what it actually is.

[Anonymous No.15052937]

>>15049742
define "materialism"

[Anonymous No.15052951]

>>15049742
It fails at the moment of death.

[Anonymous No.15053140]

>>15052398
>

[Anonymous No.15053159]

>>15052937
It's a substance monist metaphysical position that says that matter is fundamental and that matter and it's motions can account for everything, including consciousness and other non-material things such as math and abstract concepts. It says that consciousness is made of matter or that matter doing certain things can somehow turn into a subjective consciousness experiencer and metacognizer. There isn't a coherent materialist theory of mind so it's not really clear WHAT the materialist believes about consciousness, so it's not really easy to describe what they believe. This viewpoint gives rise to the so called 'hard problem of consciousness'. They sort of pivoted to some thing called 'physicalist' for reasons elaborated in pic rel here
>>15050171

[Anonymous No.15053168]

>>15053159
consciousness is material
math and "abstract concepts" literally aren't 'real', so to speak.
there is no hard problem of consciousness
The image you linked is dumb because the brain is constantly in the process of movement of energy.
Also, information isn't real either.

[Anonymous No.15053239]

>>15053168
>consciousness is material
Elaborate. What is the spin, momentum, position, etc of a thought.
>math and "abstract concepts" literally aren't 'real', so to speak
What do you mean? How do 'real' things like matter and fake things like abstract concepts interact? How are me and you able to know what each other are talking about when we communicate these fake concepts? What are abstract concepts made of? Matter is supposed to be the only substance. So are they material or what?
>The image you linked is dumb because the brain is constantly in the process of movement of energy
The author is not talking about the brain, he is talking about subjective consciousness. The brain is an objectively observable physical object, subjective first person experience is by definition not.

[Anonymous No.15053282]

>>15053168
>Also, information isn't real either
What do you mean it isn't real? Are you saying your sensory information, for instance, isn't real or doesn't exist? Then I would say you have a problem in terms of making assertions about the ontology or behavior of the physical world, being that your sensory info is all you ever have access to of the physical world from the womb to the tomb.

[Anonymous No.15054402]

>>15049742
Appearances exist. Materialists confuse being and corresponding with. So they will say, redness is a part of the brain, but redness isn't a part of the brain but merely corresponds in structure to a part of the brain. Redness can exist without a brain, without contradiction, and vice versa.

[Anonymous No.15054416]

>>15049742
I wana stab it in the eyes.