/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.14767633]

Why the hell has math become so esoteric the past century?
How much of modern math is bullshit?

[Anonymous No.14767649]

>>14767633
All of it. Read Wildburger.

[Anonymous No.14767657]

>>14767649
Wildburger who?

[Anonymous No.14767690]

>>14767657
Normie Wildburger.

[Anonymous No.14767781]

>>14767633
Boobs. That's what pic looks like

[Anonymous No.14768109]

>>14767633
you goddamn luddite, this is groundbreaking theorem and it all started with pic related

[Anonymous No.14768226]

>>14767690
Norman Wilderburger doesn't even attempt to show how esoteric mathematics is bullshit. He has an opinion on the lack of accuracy infinite decimal places and that's really it. That has no real bearing on category theory or group theory or any of these more complex esoteric mathematical disciplines.

[Anonymous No.14768231]

>>14768109
That looks cool. But what is it?

[Anonymous No.14768277]

>>14768231
It's obviously repetition quivers associated with some alternating, respectively dihedral group.

[Anonymous No.14769130]

none
you're just an idiot

[Anonymous No.14769132]

>>14767633
jews

[Anonymous No.14771040]

math used to be applied and based on physical laws or observations. Then the hungarian and polish jews started corrupting it with their kaballah bullshit and this spawned the monstrosity that we have today: modern academia.

[Anonymous No.14773030]

>>14771040
this. most of modern math is nonsense, socially-constructed abstractions that you have to be conditioned into understanding so you can be part of an esoteric but useless club

[Anonymous No.14773036]

>>14767633
>How much of modern math is bullshit?
None.

[Anonymous No.14773066]

>>14771040
>>14773030
>muh real world
>muh applications
Fermat's little theorem was useless for 3 centuries until we made use of it in RSA. People like you would have called it useless in his time.
The "validity" of math isn't dependent on humans' ability to make use of it.

People like you should be nowhere near STEM.

[Anonymous No.14773098]

>>14773066
>Fermat's little theorem
This wouldn't be the kind of math that I'd have a problem with. Its foundations aren't on shaky foundations unlike, idk, most of the garbage the Bourbaki school shat out.

[Anonymous No.14773107]

>>14773098
>my own ability to abstract is limited, therefore THEY are wrong
Fucking 4channer.

[Anonymous No.14773119]

>>14767633
Most recent mathematics are used for cryptography, networking... But its really abstracted to fit into any kind of situation.

[Anonymous No.14773144]

>>14773107
You're angry because I caught you red-handed. Kant already debunked the idea of "pure reason" having any validity once it has been detached from the sensible intuitions. All you're doing is kabbalistic manipulations that only mean things to people already inducted to the arbitrary club. You can't make it useful for humanity, and if people actually know how intellectually bankrupt half your profession was, they'd defund it and allocate more resources to number theory or machine learning in a heartbeat. Seethe more.

[Anonymous No.14773154]

>>14773066
RSA is impractical without a bunch of additional technologies. If you actually tried to write code that implemented number theory you'd find out the limitations. Try to write an application that implements or uses RSA and then look at how much extra things you need to put to make it work. The theorem/algorithm by itself is useless except in academic examples.

[Anonymous No.14773158]

>>14773107
>this is complete bullshit
>but... what if we add an axiom that says "suppose this isn't complete bullshit"
>whoaaa look at the seemingly infinite amount of math we can do!
>you're just mad that you can't abstract like I can

[Anonymous No.14773162]

>>14767633
It is the dull and elementary parts of applied mathematics, as it is the dull and elementary parts of pure mathematics, that work for good or ill. Time may change all this. No one foresaw the applications of matrices and groups and other purely mathematical theories to modern physics, and it may be that some of the 'highbrow' applied mathematics will become 'useful' in as unexpected a way; but the evidence so far points to the conclusion that, in one subject as in the other, it is what is commonplace and dull that counts for practical life.
(...)
The general conclusion, surely, stands out plainly enough. If useful knowledge is, as we agreed provisionally to say, knowledge which is likely, now or in the comparatively near future, to contribute to the material comfort of mankind, so that mere intellectual satisfaction is irrelevant, then the bulk of higher mathematics is useless.
(G.H. Hardy, A Mathematician's Apology, 1940).

[Anonymous No.14773173]

>>14773154
>RSA is impractical without a bunch of additional technologies
You just admitted it is practical, dumbass.

[Anonymous No.14773183]

>>14773144
>I caught you red-handed
You said "shaky foundations" and gave no examples, and now you're strutting around with your ass in the air like you actually said something.
>Kant
Don't care about what randos with have to say.

[Anonymous No.14773199]

>useless math argument
go learn what imaginary numbers are used for

[Anonymous No.14773209]

>>14773183
>randos
If it weren't for Kant there would have been no investigation into logic, the foundations of mathematics, etc. You're such a brainlet it's unbelievable.
>>14773173
Technologies have to exist for it to be practical. And there's no guarantee that the required technology will be devised.

[Anonymous No.14773780]

>>14767633
Does fractal math counts as esoteric?

[Anonymous No.14773809]

>>14773780
Sadly yes

[Anonymous No.14773929]

>>14767633
Always has been.

[Anonymous No.14774546]

>>14773030
>most of modern math is nonsense
most of this "modern nonsense" is used routinely in hep-th and even hep-ph (or cond-mat if you're one of the muh not even wrong brainlets)
>>14773098
>Its foundations aren't on shaky foundations
cool starry bra, symplectic geometry had its foundations completely btfo and foundationtards started seething hard when cond-mat used this "terribly wrong foundations" and it turned out foundations don't matter at all for applications
this hate on modern maths is just autistic screeching of couple guys

[Anonymous No.14776045]

>>14767633
>I'm retarded and can't understand math beyond high school so it must be bullshit!
Kill yourself.

[Anonymous No.14776310]

>>14767633
It really hasn't, we just noticed that a lot of fields share some form of structure and started to abstract as much as possible. Category theory and related fields are the result.

[Anonymous No.14777767]

>>14776310
is category theory the only legitimate form of vague abstraction in mathematics?

[Anonymous No.14777827]

>>14773030
Based
>hurr durr just accept my constraints and rules and watch as non trivial [but useless] results come out
Category theorists in a nutshell

[Anonymous No.14779205]

>>14777827
from what absolute little I know about mathematics, category theory might be the only legitimate form of divorced abstraction there is, since it is abstraction for abstraction's sake that can then be applied elsewhere where the concrete and the abstract mix

[Anonymous No.14779561]

bump>>14779205

[Anonymous No.14780902]

>>14779205
bump

[Anonymous No.14780956]

>>14773144
>>14773209

>Kant

Kant was a piece of shit and did not understand a single line of maths. He was like the atheists today , the punk ass bitch who raves 'I FUCKIN LOVE SCIENCE NOW ZOMG even though he never did a single scientific experiment and never studied maths ever.
So this kunt said omg newton is like my idol now and guess what, his little atheist gymnastics is a vain attempt to justify newton as the guy who got it right FOREVER.
look I am going to be clear. The atheists rejected god and the theist scholars. Instead they replaced god with something else: society. They replaced religions with 'ideology. The priests in atheism are the ones who 'study society'.
And the language of the atheists is maths. So the priests must use maths all the time.
Of course this son of a bitch was later on RKT by other atheists who went all oomg einstein is so right guys, he's our jew idol now with the exact same reasoning lol.
Ultimately Kant is part of the atheist canon. But like with anything atheist, you know it's created for bugmen by bugmen in order for them to dive deep into self indulgence. Egalitarism is true because WHY WONT EVERYONE WANT IT TO BE TRUE. SO it's jsut is OKAYYYY. There that's fucking Kant for you.

[Anonymous No.14780958]

>>14777767
category theory is universal algebra done better

so for instance if aliens has maths, like a Natural number object, you can be pretty sure it is the same one as the humans

[Anonymous No.14781044]

>>14780956
Kant isn't an atheist.
>>14780958
What is universal algebra?

[Anonymous No.14781086]

>>14767633
math is soup ....

[Anonymous No.14781112]

>>14780958
>category theory is universal algebra done better
Sure the first couple of lectures can be framed a lot like universal algebra, some generalization of the first isomorphism theorem or whatever. It’s not noticeably better in this role but it works. It is however not honest to say that that is the purpose of category theory since that uses only a tiny fraction of the definitions that get thrown around, and the main outside application of the language is to algebraic topology

[Anonymous No.14781197]

>>14771040
>>14773030
This is funny because that's literally what non-maths majors have been saying for decades, and every single time, the same useless math they talked about find its use a couple of centuries down the line.

You need to understand that mathematicians have always been the pioneers of innovation, they give the rest of scientists and engineers the right logical tools to solve problems and describe phenomena. Most proven theorems were absolutely useless for a couple decades, centuries even, after their discovery by mathematicians.

[Anonymous No.14781215]

>>14781197
not all "useless" math eventually finds an application. that's a rhetorical gambit that can be used to justify any retarded tinkering of symbols. and when math is both questionable in foundation AND in application, then it's worth wondering if anything true is being produced at all. there's a lot of math that easily counts as:
>nonsense, socially-constructed abstractions that you have to be conditioned into understanding so you can be part of an esoteric but useless club
because linguistic groupthink is an intuition that can be exploited in any human enterprise. find me math that either originates from the ground or the heavens, or commit it to the flames, for it can be surely nothing but sophistry.

[Anonymous No.14781273]

>>14781215
>find me math that either originates from the ground or the heavens, or commit it to the flames, for it can be surely nothing but sophistry.
Based and sciencepilled.

[Anonymous No.14781544]

>>14767633
>>14769132
>>14771040
>>14773144
Felix Klein ruined mathematics in the late 19th century by achieving (((central control))) of all German universities through Göttingen. Getting an education as a gentile was almost impossible; some students started affecting nasally nerd voices, afros and coke bottle glasses in order to be admitted.

In the 20s scholars started studying the aspects of Jewish math & science such as:

>focus on theory, abstract concepts and idealized examples rather than empirical research (e.g. the Bayesian vs. frequentist debate)

>the projection of a mystical aspect on to natural phenomena (the Schrödinger's cat parable is a good example)

>obfuscating the literature by redefining accepted terms, multiplying categories, leaving out critical details, creating new strawman problems, etc.

>staking one's entire career on one concept and defending it to the point of absurdity (e.g. Steven Jay Gould with punctuated equilibrium)

>Focusing on people and personalities instead of facts; preferring centralized control and discouraging debate and unorthodox theories (e.g. siding with Fauci but not Mullis).

[Anonymous No.14781716]

>>14767633
>Every abstraction beyond real numbers is bullshit

[Anonymous No.14781722]

>>14781544
Jews unironically just projected the kabbalah onto math and called it (((category theory)))

[Anonymous No.14781743]

>>14781722
the guy at the forefront of it is called Jacob (((Lurie))). guess who invented modern kabbalah? a Jew named Isaac LURIA. and guess who's the son of Isaac in the Old Testament? JACOB. THEY ARE FUCKING LAUGHING IN OUR GOY FACES IT IS UNBELIEVABLE

[Anonymous No.14781813]

>>14767633
esoteric doesnt mean "hard for dumb dumbs to learn" you absolute faggot

[Anonymous No.14781991]

>>14781044
kant is a humanist and humanism=atheism

[Anonymous No.14782031]

>>14781112
>, and the main outside application of the language is to algebraic topology
no, that's biased and being blind to the logical side because ''muh classical maths'', especially blind to the predicative maths and the ''algebraic topology'' done with locales and frames

[Anonymous No.14782463]

>>14781991
very superficial reading of Kant. he said he wanted to rescue faith from reason.

[Anonymous No.14782473]

>>14771040
>math used to be applied and based on physical laws or observations
Absolutely retarded post. Applications are the least important part of math

[Anonymous No.14782485]

>>14782473
>posts Pythagoras as an example
you mean the guy obsessed with geometry (readily applicable, the gold standard of pure mathematics that is still down to earth) and music (so applicable it's a multi-billion dollar industry and makes almost everybody happy)? kys retard

[Anonymous No.14782537]

>>14782485
Just because math can be applied, does not mean it was studied on that basis. The beauty comes in abstract representations of ideals

[frenanon No.14782546]

>>14780956
Why are you guys like this?
Seriously, what is your problem?

[Anonymous No.14782554]

>>14773030
>>14771040
>>>/pol/
>>>/x/
>>>/lgbt/

[frenanon No.14782567]

>>14781544
>>14781722
Whenever some /sigh/ mod gives me a Global b& for questioning the ""sCiEnCe"", I unleash my autism on more publicly visited communities.

[Jealous No.14782570]

>>14767633
>math become so esoteric
I would have said "complicated."

[Anonymous No.14782869]

>>14782473
Applications matter when you have to justify your existence to non-mathematicians because they pay you.

[Anonymous No.14782871]

>>14781716
>sqrt(-1) isn't kosher
>but the axiom of completeness and diagonal proof are

[Anonymous No.14782974]

>14782567
Low IQ bait, apply yourself next time

[Anonymous No.14782979]

>Enoch solves all of mathematics
>People still actually study pure math for some reason
lmao, talk about wasting your time

[Anonymous No.14783010]

>>14782979
I FIND IT FUN!

[Anonymous No.14783027]

>>14783010
That's fine, Math is a nice hobby but I really hope you didn't go to university for it, lmao that would be embarrassing

[Anonymous No.14783034]

>>14767633
the truth is that all math is esoteric bullshit
just because some math corresponds to our senses and intuition better than others doesn't render it more or less valid

[Anonymous No.14783056]

>>14767781
came here to post this

[Anonymous No.14783064]

>>14783027
I failed middle skool...I once took college courses and dropped them, reminded me of high school which I dropped out of.

[Anonymous No.14783197]

>>14771040
>>14773030
>>14767633
>>14781743
should be obvious by now. high level mathematics is far more taxing on your verbal IQ because, guess what, it's taxing your grammatical centers of your brain (because you're learning how to manipulate a made up language). and guess what's funny about language? it's prone to groupthink and semantic decay, especially when the social aspects take over and do the heavy lifting.

[Anonymous No.14783228]

>>14783197
retard, can you give me an example of modern maths that uses lenguage more than logic?

[Anonymous No.14783230]

>>14783228
>his point
>...
>...
>...
>your head

[Anonymous No.14783257]

>>14783228
I'll answer your question with a question. can you give me an example of a language that doesn't use logic? no. you're missing the point.

[Anonymous No.14783392]

>>14783257
>language that doesn't use logic
Chinese, obviously.

[Anonymous No.14783836]

>>14783392
Chinese is a language of subtlety. there's almost no way you can interpret old texts without being initiated into them. watch out for the scholar-gentleman.

[Anonymous No.14784443]

>>14767633
>>14781544
>During the Weimar era Göttingen inaugurated a quiet revolution that has by now rendered the traditional nineteenth-century modes of communication and invention largely obsolete.

>Mathematics today is essentially an oral culture: to keep abreast of it one must attend conferences and workshops or, better yet, be associated with a leading research center where the latest developments from near and afar are constantly being discussed. By the time an important result actually appears in print today, it is probably no longer new; in any case, it will probably be impossible to understand the work without the aid of an "interpreter" who already knows the thrust of the argument through an oral source.

>Thus, somewhere along the line there was a revolutionary shift from a static, print-oriented mathematical culture to a dynamic oral culture, and no one played a more decisive role in this transformation than Felix Klein, the architect of the modern Göttingen tradition.

David Rowe, "'Jewish Mathematics' at Göttingen in the Era of Felix Klein". Isis 77 #3, pp. 422-449

[Anonymous No.14784454]

>>14783257
True, idk what i was thinking off. You are right

[Anonymous No.14784460]

>>14784443
Amazing how the Jews monopolized math and twisted it into some Judaic pilpul to suit their own verbal IQ.
No wonder math feels so distant to CS and closer to some Shlomo legalese.

[Anonymous No.14784647]

>>14784460
The real question is whether this language can be made useful or if it's just a mathematician's cant.

[Anonymous No.14785028]

>>14784647

[Anonymous No.14785642]

>>14784647
I say it CAN'T. get it? kek

[Anonymous No.14786583]

>>14767633
math went to shit when they started replacing numbers with letters like wtf dude are you insane i can't count to "b" you fucking tard

[Anonymous No.14786745]

>>14785028
wtf why are there PDFs on 4chan