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/sci/ - Science & Math

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14713616 No.14713616 [Reply] [Original]

>present in basically all eukaryotes
>highly conserved 13 MDa structure
>probably present in the last eukaryotic common ancestor
>no known function
What the hell are cellular vaults for?
https://www.bmsis.org/a-vault-of-knowledge-the-weirdest-and-least-studied-cellular-structure/
https://vaults.arc.ucla.edu/pages/

>> No.14713622
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14713622

>> No.14713636
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14713636

>> No.14713680

Thas weird as fuck anon

>> No.14713699

>>14713616
It has been a long time we didn't have a real scientific thread.
Truly thanks anon.

>> No.14713720

>>14713616
God created it so it's good

>> No.14713741

>>14713616
>no known function

Nothing has any functions. Causality is ideology. Everything is an abomination indefinitely suspended in a zero-point.

>> No.14713838

I love it when you can tell what prompted an anon to make a post.

>> No.14713843
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14713843

Convince me the prefontral cortex didn't develop through interdimensional aliens inseminating our ancestors.

>> No.14714701

>genuinely good thread is posted
>immediately dies because it isn't /pol/ bait
why do I even bother with this board

>> No.14714718

>>14713616
>>14713622
holding things to be released at a certain signal, assumedly. If i were designing a little device to deliver chemicals directly to a cell from medicine i'd probably make it something like that little fucker

>> No.14714783

>>14714718
That seems spot on, they're even being investigated as a way to deliver drugs. Though that seems a little premature given we don't know what they actually fucking do. The interesting thing to me is that they're so well conserved but don't seem to cause any major problems when the major vault protein gene is knocked out, and they seem to be missing from a lot of common model organisms. That makes it seem like they're important for surviving stressful environments somehow but otherwise not necessary.

>> No.14715475

>>14713616
well personally I blame women.

>> No.14716872

Bump

>> No.14716893 [DELETED] 
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14716893

>>14713616
>happened by chance. it's all random. it's evolution
Sure.
>function unknown
lol...
>>14714783
>That seems spot on, they're even being investigated as a way to deliver drugs.
>more drugs
>because pharmaceutical companies good

>> No.14716933

>>14713616
Alien devices

>> No.14716966

>>14713616
... like viral elements, mitochondrial DNA, retrotransposons and satellite DNA they're probably just another way of nucleic acid piggybacking off of extant lifeforms to survive with the added benefit of having its own protective capsid that isn't recognized as foreign by its host cell like a virus' would be.

Information simply tries to persist in biological systems by any means necessary-- applying teleology to it is a fool's errand. Vaults are incredibly elegant, but the end result is the same as a virus or a retrotransposon, albeit with more fidelity, protection and discretion.

If you can provide more evidence other than "it's complicated" to support some other mechanism for their existence I'm all ears.

>> No.14716975

>>14716966
>projecting human thought processes on inanimate objects
low iq asf
"everything is the same as me" = infantile solipsism

>> No.14716987

Dumb answer here, but what if eukaryotes are von numan machines, and the 'vaults' are the hard drive where the data is stored?

>> No.14716991

>>14716975
>calling biological systems inanimate
>calling natural selection a "human thought process"
>calling anyone else in the thread low IQ

it really is summer in here

>> No.14716993

>>14716966
good god at least read the wikipedia entry first before just saying shit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vault_(organelle)

>> No.14717002

>>14716993
NTA but I kinda get what he's trying to say. Whether or not they have some definable and useful function is secondary to the fact that some stuff continues to exist just because it can.

>> No.14717005

>>14716993
so basically they're genetically distinct components of eukaryotic cells probably acquired through some form of endosymbiosis (like a mitochondrion or chloroplast except probably a virus) that store dangerous molecules so they don't hurt the cell. So it's information that found a way to persist by piggybacking off of an extant lifeform... which is what I said.

>> No.14717515

>>14713616
if i were to guess, transport
would be really interesting to look into and research professionally

>> No.14717527

>>14713616
What is inside the vaults?

>> No.14717896
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14717896

>>14717527
A small toy

>> No.14718082

>>14717005
>that store dangerous molecules
Is that something that's been discovered recently? I don't see it mentioned in the linked articles.

>> No.14719055
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14719055

>>14713616
>oddly, only one arthropod is known to possess MVP (Major Vault Protein) – a velvet spider Stegodyphus

https://www.bmsis.org/a-vault-of-knowledge-the-weirdest-and-least-studied-cellular-structure/

>> No.14719072
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14719072

This is fascinating, but let's not let the name "vault" imply to us that this organelle is something that is perhaps only for storage and close off other avenues of inquiry.

>> No.14719115

>>14717896
That's illegal in USA.

>> No.14719795

>>14717896
My god.

>> No.14720563

>>14718082
The cancer cells of chemotherapy patients have more vaults and the vaults have the drugs used inside them ... I'm just putting 2 and 2 together.

>> No.14720769

>>14720563
Just unlock the vaults bro

>> No.14721792

w-whats inside?

>> No.14722453

actual /sci/ thread for once

>> No.14722495 [DELETED] 

>>14722453
your contribution to this thread: none
if you were to go to the effort to make good threads then the board would have more of the type of content that you want to see, but since you insist on being lazy, those threads don't get made and instead the rest of us have to look at your endless whining and moaning about how "/sci/ isn't good enough for me" and "i deserve better"

>> No.14722561

>>14722495
Your contribution was even worse

>> No.14723550

Found a recent (2020) pretty readable overview of the state of research, knockout studies and theorised roles: https://rdcu.be/cSUO5

>> No.14723596

You put your weed in there

>> No.14723658

probably another organelle appropriation that ended up sticking around through pure chance, or some weird viral replication safeguard of sorts that ended up stuck in the host cells
hell, for all I know it could be a precursor to proper vacuoles in early eukaryotes

>> No.14725281
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14725281

These guys figured out how they open, at least.
>https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.abj7795

>> No.14725333
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14725333

>>14725281

>> No.14725343

>>14714701
it's truly a sad state of affairs

>> No.14725348

>>14716987
biological agents in general are the actual von neumann machines in this universe. every single life form is a von neumann machine.

>> No.14725526

>>14716893
didn't take much to predictably trigger you did it
absolute fucking derangement

>> No.14725573

>>14713616
>present in basically all eukaryotes
How much of our biomass is used on these things?

>> No.14726284

>>14725573
I found this page saying there are around 100 000 of them in human cells: https://pdb101.rcsb.org/motm/114
I believe the average human cell weighs about a nanogram, and 100 000 * 13MDa is 2*10^-15kg, so as a very rough estimate 0.2%.
By comparison, the human genome weighs about 3.59*10^-15kg.

>> No.14726313

A long time ago an advanced race seeded the universe with basic proteins that latched on to any organism and inserted itself into their DNA, lying dormant for generations for the right time to welcome their masters just like a sleeper agent

>> No.14727422
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14727422

>phd in cell biology related shit
>never even heard of this
they must be hiding information on this, someone call /x/

>> No.14727703

>>14713616
can you survive nuclear blast if you hide in those? like indiana jones in refrigerator.

>> No.14727708

>>14713616
It's the symbol of the covenant.

>> No.14728276

>>14713741
>Nothing has any functions. Causality is ideology. Everything is an abomination indefinitely suspended in a zero-point.

I can't take any more of this German humor!

>> No.14728279

>>14715475
based and scientifically reasoned

>> No.14728378

>>14727422
It is weird how they just don't get brought up most of the time, I can't even remember how I came across them.

>> No.14728620

If you tap into your Ki, this things will make you into a Super Saiyan/Sith-Jedi.

>> No.14728631
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14728631

What if you got these things to fill with some sort of poison or lysing chemical, and when you wanted to kill someone you just hit the switch (dump chemicals) to make them open? It could be pretty cool

It seems that they’ve already run tests for something of this nature, according to the wikipedia page. Of course, for regular drug delivery, not cool remote kill switches ...

>> No.14728875

>>14726284
>a very rough estimate 0.2%.
That should at least put some amount of evolutionary pressure onto ridding the cells of these things, assuming that they have no function whatsoever.
So they probably have.

>> No.14729689
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14729689

>>14713616
Oh no

>> No.14730158

>>14726313
what is implied under welcome

>> No.14730159

>>14727422
it was discovered in 80's too. wonder what other things are in cell biology that is not known widely to the people working in the field.

>> No.14730160

>>14727708
so only one spider got covenant with god? what did other spiders do? worship idols?

>> No.14730164

>>14728875
>no function whatsoever
what makes you think that?

>> No.14730188

>>14716993
>vaults have been associated with thenuclear pore complexesand their octagonal shape appears to support this.
It's probably that vaults store drugs or other debris and make them easier to pump outside the cells.

>> No.14730209

>>14730188
Scratch that. It's probably more like the vault slips into the nuclear pore and acts more like a straw to pump out drugs or other stuff.

Most insects lack these, so evolutionarily they dont have to spend the extra energy making this stuff, but they're more sensitive to drugs as a result. Course I guess it's pointless to keep the vault when you're small enough that .25 grams of caffeine can kill you.

>> No.14730233

>>14713616
just as likely it was able to remove the components that it's made of from another process
didn't cost more than it saved, perhaps caused an advantage of removing an excess, or was entirely incidental, or was a remnant of a previous required process
the problem is
scientists are not engineers, I mean that in the fullest sense
many are not even problem solvers
many are not even curious
science is a beautiful thing studied by fuckugly people - SaintPhil

>> No.14730482
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14730482

>>14730164
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_by_contradiction

>> No.14730805

Could it be like the blobs these guys form?
https://youtu.be/vlANF-v9lb0

>> No.14730971

>>14730482
nigger

>> No.14731003

>>14713741
Yes. Just the way I like it

>> No.14732293

>>14713843
>ayys came to fuck rats
Okay.

>> No.14732456

>>14728875
Yeah, 13MDa is huge and not trivial to be producing in those numbers, yet the couple of knock out studies done so far the animals seem to truck on just fine. It's bizarre.